We're worried about our son and our grandchildren

[Anonymous]

Why is #1 being criticized so harshly here? OP hasn't specified what she's meant by "help" - so it's hard to know whether his issues with OP and #2 are justified. We also don't know how he'd respond to saying "that's it." He may very well be perfectly capable of financial independence - indeed it sounds like he largely is.

If #1 whines about being "cut off" he's not so "noble." But I'd give him the benefit of the doubt from what I've heard. Why not take him at his word when he say he's received enough? How often do you see #1? Or talk to him on the phone even? It sounds like you're with #2 almost every single day.

#2 sounds hopeless though.

[Anonymous]

OP, if you can't take the heat....
Notice everyone is telling you the same thing.

[Anonymous]

In other words, you don't know: maybe #1 actually has more respect for you than you think. But I think you're so afraid of the impact of "cutting off" of #2 or afraid of being seen as "playing favorites" that you feel you need to throw a bone every now and then to #1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you should acknowledge that they're not the only ones who have f*cked up. They don't have jobs because they've never had to get jobs and that's on you.

+ 1. You are way too involved op. I have a feeling there is a reason both of your kids moved to the east coast while you were in California

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, if you can't take the heat....
Notice everyone is telling you the same thing.

Right. I don't know how much time the OP spends in DCUM land but this kind of consensus is pretty rare.

[Anonymous]

OP,

I am #1 in my family. My parents have been supporting #2 and family for years. Neither of them is employed at the same time for more than a year or so. They regularly quit jobs because they don't like the job...and my parents continue to support them. The killing thing about it is the double standard that is at play now and has been at play all my life. My parents think #2 and spouse cannot support themselves. They can, just not to my parents' satisfaction. My parents are quite wealthy and #2 and spouse make a max of $110/120 combined after 10 plus years in the work force. Of course, they keep quitting jobs and going anywhere from 4 months to over a year without working. My parents just simply don't expect #2 and spouse to support themselves.

Let #2 live on his $40k. Stop paying his bills. Stop bailing him out. You can tell him that you and your husband are funding pre-paid college education plans. That way their kids' education will be secure.

[Anonymous]

Having read OP's subsequent posts, I'm 100% certain this is a troll. The stilted writing style, the overuse of quotation marks and exclamation points...

You had me going for a little while, there, OP. Hope you got your jollies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, if you can't take the heat....
Notice everyone is telling you the same thing.

Not really. Some blame OP, some blame #2 and about half think #1 is just as bad because he didn't make it "100% on his own" and for others he comes out mostly unscathed.

[Anonymous]

OP, you are responsible for the state your children are in, including their inability to live within their means. You are responsible for your younger son's inability to hold a job or support himself. YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU.

You and your spouse did this to them, you handicapped them in life. Take responsibility for this. Stop the madness, especially because you cannot afford to keep it up forever.

You owe both your sons sincere apologies for your failure to parent them into adulthood.

See a financial advisor. Find out how much money you will need to maintain your desired lifestyle through retirement. Take that out of the mix and with the rest you can fund 529 accounts for your grandchildren and give the remainder to your sons as their early inheritance. Tell them there will be no more support. They have trust funds, they will not be out on the street.

Then see a therapist. Tell your children you love them but cannot support them any longer beyond this gift. Then mean it. Be an adult so that they can learn how.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,

I am #1 in my family. My parents have been supporting #2 and family for years. Neither of them is employed at the same time for more than a year or so. They regularly quit jobs because they don't like the job...and my parents continue to support them. The killing thing about it is the double standard that is at play now and has been at play all my life. My parents think #2 and spouse cannot support themselves. They can, just not to my parents' satisfaction. My parents are quite wealthy and #2 and spouse make a max of $110/120 combined after 10 plus years in the work force. Of course, they keep quitting jobs and going anywhere from 4 months to over a year without working. My parents just simply don't expect #2 and spouse to support themselves.

Let #2 live on his $40k. Stop paying his bills. Stop bailing him out. You can tell him that you and your husband are funding pre-paid college education plans. That way their kids' education will be secure.

Didn't PP already buy his condo? So he has no mortgage or rent, no student loan debt, and no private school tuition because I'm certain that OP bought a condo in a nice part of town with excellent public schools. He could live on $40K if he had to, with all of that out of the way.

[Anonymous]

My solution. Say your grown kids have had enough and that you want to enjoy your retirement. Set up college funds for the grandkids and do anything nice for them directly. Treat them without treating the parents. No need to be harsh or judgmental to your kids. See how #1 and #2 respond - the problem may be more you than them. Let #2 that he needs to be a role model for his kids and find work.

And don't move into the same building as #2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents of two daughters with unambiguous husbands. We have paid for their education, weddings and bought their first homes. Life insurance policies too. Take them clothing shopping on their bdays, treat them to family vacation as xmas gifts and generous with dinners and bday gifts for grandchildren. We would not bail them out, we've done enough and want to enjoy our retirement.

Umm. There's nothing left for them to pay for themselves.

[Anonymous]

If they have a paid-for condo, paid-for school (or free), all they need is food and health insurance.

So if you can, I would mail them grocery store gift cards every month for $800 (I know, it's a lot, but we spend that with 3 people - not even boneless chicken breasts or steak either). But DONT BUY WHOLE FOODS - those coin machines pay cash for those, and they will just exchange them for cash. And I would pay (directly to the company) their health insurance if you can - a good one with no annual deductible, just small copays.

But that is IT - don't spend another dime on your son and his wife.

With a roof over their heads and food on the table, they will just have to get jobs to do anything in their life. they don't need a car, or clothes, nothing else. for holidays, buy the grandkids shoes and clothes. take the MIL kids clothes shopping when you see her.

[Anonymous]

Are you telling us that you are already given DS2 40k for each of his kids via that trust or that you've set up that trust for future use by his kids?

If you are giving them 80k and they still can't make it work, they have big big issues.

How does your support of DS2 actually work? If they work sporadically, do they just forward you the bills that come from the electric company every month, or do you give them a lump sum, or is there in fact that 80k trust payout?

Honestly even if you can afford it, I wouldn't buy him a condo just now. You're in your early 60s, and he's in his 30s -- this is really the LAST time he can make something of himself while still having his mama's safety net to catch him. The same way most normal adults encourage their kids to take challenging classes and try out internships at ages 18-22 bc if something doesn't work out, it isn't a catastrophic failure. For a 30+ yr old man to have no resume (or the woman to have some retail work) is freaking odd. Do you think it'll get better or easier for him? If he can't get hired now, you think his 40s or 50s will be better?

I'd sit him down and say you've helped a lot and you're not saying you won't help, but any help is contingent on him developing a CAREER - not just a job - in the next 3 yrs. I assume he's graduated college? He can take training courses and get into coding -- lots of career switchers there. He can go to community college to become some kind of healthcare tech. He can go to trade school for anything from electronic to plumbing.

Point is - in order for him to RECEIVE any help from you, he best be on a path that will lead to a solid salary and benefits by 2018. THEN if you think his salary doesn't cover the lifestyle that you and daddy JD think he should be living, THEN you will supplement for the "finer" things.

I bet you won't even consider this bc you are afraid of being "cut off" -- bc if you tell him you're not helping him until further notice, he and the DIL may not want as much to do with you. Parenting is hard . . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If they have a paid-for condo, paid-for school (or free), all they need is food and health insurance.

So if you can, I would mail them grocery store gift cards every month for $800 (I know, it's a lot, but we spend that with 3 people - not even boneless chicken breasts or steak either). But DONT BUY WHOLE FOODS - those coin machines pay cash for those, and they will just exchange them for cash. And I would pay (directly to the company) their health insurance if you can - a good one with no annual deductible, just small copays.

But that is IT - don't spend another dime on your son and his wife.

With a roof over their heads and food on the table, they will just have to get jobs to do anything in their life. they don't need a car, or clothes, nothing else. for holidays, buy the grandkids shoes and clothes. take the MIL kids clothes shopping when you see her.

And, of course, there's college too. I would leave #2's portion of your estate allllll to a trust for their kids college that #2 can never touch - with some 3rd person as trustee.