We're worried about our son and our grandchildren

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to take the advice of an impartial party, a financial planner. They will all say, barring special needs, all children ( or grandchildren) should be given the same inheritance. Do not count #1's college against him. You paid for both kids' college. Done. Now that they are on their own, they get the same amount. Otherwise, the good kid feels punished for being responsible, and the negligent one gets financially rewarded for irresponsible choices.

This. I guarantee you that #1 TOTALLY RESENTS both YOU and #2 for the handouts. I know I do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to take the advice of an impartial party, a financial planner. They will all say, barring special needs, all children ( or grandchildren) should be given the same inheritance. Do not count #1's college against him. You paid for both kids' college. Done. Now that they are on their own, they get the same amount. Otherwise, the good kid feels punished for being responsible, and the negligent one gets financially rewarded for irresponsible choices.

This. I guarantee you that #1 TOTALLY RESENTS both YOU and #2 for the handouts. I know I do.

And #2 is NOT ENTITLED to the same QOL as #1 or even what he himself was raised with. That is earned, not given.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to take the advice of an impartial party, a financial planner. They will all say, barring special needs, all children ( or grandchildren) should be given the same inheritance. Do not count #1's college against him. You paid for both kids' college. Done. Now that they are on their own, they get the same amount. Otherwise, the good kid feels punished for being responsible, and the negligent one gets financially rewarded for irresponsible choices.

This. I guarantee you that #1 TOTALLY RESENTS both YOU and #2 for the handouts. I know I do.

+1

[Anonymous]

+2.

[Anonymous]

I didn't read all the posts but as a psychologist I can tell you that you are enabling them and they will never change their behavior when they know you will always bail them out. If you really want to stop the cycle (and for your grandchildrens sake I hope you do - think about what they are learning from watching this relationship) you have to stop and let them stand on their own feet.

[Anonymous]

Yes, #1 hates #2 and his wife and resents you for enabling #2 and his wife. And if #1 has kids, at some point #1s kids will find out #2s kids are getting everything paid for by you and the kids will hate their cousins, or at the very least look down on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I know mental disorders were pretty much taboo at the time you were raising your children, but have you considered what may be affecting your second son's achievements? Clearly, he is not unintelligent, since he did well on the LSAT. For example, does he have ADHD, which is difficulty organizing his thoughts and actions and can also affect speed and memory? I mention this because it's never too late to start an evaluation and a diagnosis. ADHD can be treated very successfully with medication. People with undiagnosed ADHD are sometimes described as lazy, unmotivated, not-getting-it-together types.

I'm not putting all of this mess on such a disorder. There are obviously expectations on their part regarding your money, which isn't pleasant.

What does the first son think? It's often hard for a successful sibling to watch the "failure" eating up all of his parent's money.

Anyway, I would first look to your own comfort. Are you sure of finding jobs here in the DC area? You mentioned you wanted to keep working. Are you sure you're going to find friends? You can't rely on your busy children for all of your social needs. I would think twice about selling and moving. Take your time.

I think this is good advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To clarify, the time share in Colorado is ours (we want it - though of course sometimes our children and extended family are sometimes invited) and we're "reclaiming" #2's condo in SF for us.

We're proud of #1 for pursuing a "noble" independent path, and of course we're happy to help him out when he needs it since he doesn't make that much money. But the paradox is he resents us for "favoring" #2 but says he doesn't actually want that same treatment for himself. Isn't that trying to have it both ways?

How can we "cut off" #2 without cutting off #1 though?

Your real problem is that you think it's fine to permanently supplement your children's incomes. Please realize that this creates all sorts of unhealthy relationships and stunts the growth (in resilience and responsibility) of your children.

Apparently, choosing a noble career path "justifies" having a few perks from you. It shouldn't!
DC1 isn't turning the help down, is he? So his job isn't all that noble, is it? He might not even have considered this path if you hadn't shown your willingness to fund a more luxurious life for him.
And then, DC1 feels guilty because his inactivity is somehow unworthy of receiving financial help??? That's ridiculous, because DC1 shouldn't be helped either.

My husband works in cancer research. He earns less than 6 figures with an MD and a PhD. He's saving future lives, and obviously isn't in it for the money. Our parents are not helping us, even though they could. We have enough to live on with our 2 children. Frugally. We prioritize education and culture. We are happy.

You have created a vicious cycle, and whatever you decide, it will be drama now or drama later. Pick your poison.

OP here. I don't expect Horatio Algers. Nor do I think our children should be completely, 100% "cut off" or else be condemned as sinful ingrates by the likes of you.

We have no problem leaving aside some money for our children and grandchildren and help them from time to time.

Surely there's a middle ground here.

Take your 100% "tough love" attitude elsewhere. I'm sure your husband has no shoes and ha to walk 5 miles to work every day in the snow, all in the name of "helping humanity" and not being dependent on anyone. Nice platitudes, but it's not helpful here.

Are you for real? I'm not PP but you are the one who asked for advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They are not making the effort because they know you'll bail them out. Stop it. They will not fall into poverty. They will get it together. If you want to support your grandchildren you can provide enrichment activities that benefit them. Travel with them, pay for their education, etc. But stop enabling the adults. You won't help your situation if you buy them a condo in DC. They can live on their 40k in Stafford or Culpeper. Your son can work at Home Depot and your DIL can work at a grocery store. They'll be fine.

This. If they choose to live modestly on the 40k, rather than work, they already have a great advantage over most. 40k a year is doing well enough, if you don't have to work to earn it, and your kids' needs are taken care of by the grandparents. Don't make it about you wanting to see them living well, even if you are propping them up to make it happen. That is about your pride, not their well-being.

[Anonymous]

OP, please adopt me. I promise I will be an excellent daughter - I will cook for you, visit you religiously and teach my children to worship you. Honestly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why does this thread make me think of Arrested Development?

Hahahahahhaha. I just re-read the post in Lucille's voice.

[Anonymous]

you need family therapy. I don't mean this facetiously, but the dynamics in your family are not good. I don't understand the whole cut off your son advice, if it was that simple you would have done it long ago. I don't mean this as an insult, you don't know how to set boundaries. Im sure you raised the two sons relatively the same, #1 had the motivation to go to college and #2 did not. The problem lies with #2 and he can work that out. I am a highly successful person, but it took years of therapy for me to understand what I was doing wrong and how to learn to feel and navigate in the world.

As a parent the last thing I would want is to leave this earth with my two children bearing resentment towards each other. The scenario you describe can only lead to resentment of #1, and #2 has to be defensive to maintain any self worth.

Please consider getting some help because your situation is very complicated. A good therapist won't tell you what to do, they will lead you to examine why you do what you do. It also takes a long time to build up trust in the relationship. If I were you, I would go with my spouse first and then bring the sons in. The therapist can help you bring your sons to the table.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We're pretty close to retirement (66 and 61), but will probably continue to work part-time for another 5 years. We lived in the Bay Area and sold our house for about $5 million - we did really well on it decided that it just made no sense to stay there and we could do far better elsewhere. A few business ventures we were hoping to finance retirement fell through (we did very well for about 20 years, but the last 20 have been very difficult). Plus, we're worried about our younger son (#2) and his wife and children.

We've decided to buy two condos in DC, one for us and one for our younger son and his family. We have an older son (#1) and daughter-in-law who live and work in DC. So the family will again be reunited.

#2 had a condo in San Francisco that we bought for him and have decided to keep for the family, so we can at least spend some time in California. Plus it could be a revenue generator when we're not there.

We really wanted #2 to make something of himself but he hasn't really worked. Didn't do very well in college. He did very well on the LSAT though, so he could get into maybe a tier 2 law school. But he didn't want to be a lawyer and never applied. We tried to employ him directly in our business but then that fell through. Before our first grandchild was born, we insisted that it was time for him to work and not being picky about it. But that never happened. Our daughter-in-law, who came from a lower middle class background, thinks we have way more money than we actually do. She generally gets a sales job every now and then to amuse herself, but then gets bored and quits in a few months. So we are afraid none of them will ever have a real job. Now they have 2 chlldren.

However it is wrong to deprive our GRANDCHILDREN of a good life. They should not be held responsible for their parents', well, f*ing up.

And in spite of our issues with them, nothing makes us happier than spending time with them and our grandchildren.

So there's nothing we can do. Even with the trust fun set up for our children by the grandparents (about 40K a year for each child), #2 and daughter-in-law can't manage their finances. I can't count how many times we've had to bail them out over the past decade. What can we do? We have to support them. And 40K is not enough for a family with 2 children. And since they're in their 30s now, with no to minimal work experience, we don't think they can get jobs now.

So we're selling our house and downsizing. The good news is we can afford some condos in DC, a vacation home somewhere for the whole extended family (maybe in New England or upstate New York) and to keep the condo in San Francisco and the time-share in Colorado (we're avid skiers), and still have $$$ left over: this is probably about $2 million in real estate (we can also get rental income). We're going to have to leave as much money aside as we can but we want to have some enjoyment in our golden years as well.

Why would they get jobs or do things for themselves if you keep taking care of them? You created and contiue to feed this monster so don't complain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do not EVER give them money "for the grandchildren." If you want the grandkids to take ice skating lessons, pay the ice skating place DIRECTLY. They sound capable, but just lazy and like they're counting on you to support them.

Stop buying condos for your son.

#1. I have a brother like your son. My late mother supported him her entire life through two failed marriages and 4 children. She purchased every home he lived and bought every car he drove (Lexus, Mercedes, Acura, Chrysler 300). He was lazy with an entitlement activity. When one of his children graduated from college that my mother paid for, my mother gave my brother money for him to give to his daughter for graduation and my brother kept the money for himself. She tolerated all his trifling, unacceptable behavior. The ultimate was when I learned my mother was paying my brother's child support. OP, I hope you will leave your grandchildren something but not your trifling son and daughter-in-law.

[Anonymous]

I am #1. My parents -- especially our mom -- took care of my brother who could never quite get it together. Our parents are divorced. My dad got sick and had to cut him off. Then our mom died. It's amazing what a person can do when they have to do it. In the past year my brother has gotten his own place and a job. He had to because I was not spending one dime of the money that I get up and go to work to earn every day -- at a job I don't even like right now -- for him to lay about with his hand out. I made it clear to my parents long ago that I would not be picking up where they left off. Your son has $40K of annual income and no mortgage. He can find a way to live off that money or he can go get a job to bring in more income. Why you insist upon paying for his lifestyle is beyond me and you don't seem to want the advice folks here have given you. I guess we'll just wait to hear how you are old and broke because you threw good money after bad.