Advice on school options for violent child

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think he may be too old for play therapy at this point. I would look in to CBT for the anxiety and also possibly at ABA if your insurance will cover it. ABA is often used for more basic life functions but there are more and more providers that use it for other types of behaviors in very high functioning children.

A psychologist may also be able to help make sure your son is feeling good about himself during this transition. I know a few children who have become depressed over their inability to control their impulsive behavior.

A few weeks ago I saw a poor child who looked to be around your DC's age who had an outburst. After he stopped he began hitting himself on the head and crying about how dumb he is. His parent was trying to comfort him but he clearly had to get this idea from somewhere and it's almost definitely his teachers where kids this age spend most of his time.

I had to turn away for a minute because I was starting to cry myself. A child should never ever have to feel that way about himself and if you do one thing I would make sure your son knows how "good" he is even though his behaviors need some improvement.

OP here. Thank you for this insight. I am heartbroken to hear your story. Fortunately my son doesn't do and I agree it is clearly learned. My son gets more upset when he realizes he is in trouble or going to get suspended. There was a big school event last week that he was really really looking forward to and when he realized he was getting suspended and would not be able to participate he became more upset and kicked the teacher's aide who was with him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks everyone who has replied. Sounds like Adderall is not helping and possibly hindering my son. We will see his psychiatrist this Thursday and work on stopping this drug. Our doc is a pediatric psychiatrist and we are very happy with him. We had our son in play therapy for over a year and we felt we got nothing out if nor did he beyond doing fun crafts each week. We switched to a new psychologist a few months ago who is focused on results and he has been very helpful. He is the one who thinks anxiety is the major issue at play. We had a neuro-psych done already but apparently it wasn't good and my son's current psychologist is encouraging us to have it redone. We plan to do so. I will reach out to Dr. Black tomorrow.

We haven't hired an advocate yet, but I will do so this week - any suggestions for one who has experience in FCPS? We want our kid to get the tools he needs to succeed socially. Academics are definitely second right now. We just had a FBA done but we haven't really had a chance to get the BIP in place as he has been suspended twice in one week. The BIP was finalized on a Friday about 5:30 and then on Monday he was suspended for two days when he got in from an incident he had while he was waiting for us when we were in the IEP meeting. Sigh. I feel like the school isn't giving us a chance to get it started. Of course, I don't blame them when it comes to safety as my son is hurting other kids. It is frustrating.

I am so grateful for your input. I cried reading the replies - as I am sure every one of you can relate - this is so very hard emotionally. I am a bit of wreck.

I agree that the adderall is possibly making things worse. Are many of the issues/behaviors occurring a few hours after he has taken the adderall? I am an adult who takes adderall and I know that when it is wearing off, I get very very short tempered. However, as an adult, I know how to control my short temper. A child can not control a short temper created by medication.

I would absolutely look into ABA/Behavioral therapy. My son is almost 5 with ASD and we have been doing ABA (a natural environment - newer type model) for 1 year. It has been life changing. He loves to go to ABA. He likes to learn and he has learned how to communicate better and interact with others better. We (parents and teachers) have also learned better ways to communicate with him, tools to use to increase his good behavior (we use a behavior chart where he earns tokens). The behavior chart started really small {ex: circle time, he received 4 stickers if he 1. sat in his chair, 2. controlled his body (stayed in his seat), 3. at least watched the teacher (didn't actually have to sing/talk etc), 4. stayed the entire 10 minute}. Now he gets 1 token for attending and participating in the entire 15 minute circle time. The behavioral therapist has created a plan that grows with him.

Hugs to you. Hoping things get better very very soon.

OP here. I am tempted to cut his Adderall dosage a bit tomorrow but won't til we meet with his doc on Thursday. The incidents occur at different times but often during writing, unsupervised times like lunch and recess, class changes. I was hoping to go to an ABA school-training this Tuesday but I have a work event so cannot but I will order a book on it for my Kindle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you need to fix the medications and have an FBA done before you think about changing the school placement.

I'm wondering if the side effects from the Adderall is cancelling out the Risperdal. Has your psychiatrist suggested something like Prozac + Risperdal and then adding in a non-stimulant ADHD med? Has he been on Intuniv?

He has never been on anything else but I will ask our doc on Thursday about Prozac and Intuniv. I plan to walk out of the doc meeting with a change of prescription no matter what.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,
I have been through same and would be happy to talk to you off-line. Do you have an anon email address?

OP here. It would be wonderful to speak to someone who is going through the same thing - my email is [e-mail]

[Anonymous]

Larrie Ellen Randall is an advocate in the FCPS area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm reading with interest, as this is our current situation. You're not alone. I'm sorry this is happening.

OP here. This is by far the hardest thing I have ever dealt with in my life. Mental illness is so very tough. I just want a normal happy kiddo. Big hugs to you as well.

[Anonymous]

My son did risperadol. We had to take him off it as it increased anxiety and aggression as the dosage increased. Also had weight gain. It can also have very serious side effects.

[Anonymous]

OP, I mean this in the nicest way-Please stop calling your child violent. Yes, he's reacting aggressively because of stress or anxiety or whatever the reason may be but that's not the same at all as a child who willfully hits others at random because it's fun or because he wants to feel in control like a bully.

You should also stop thinking of him as having a mental illness in the traditional sense. He has neurodevelopmental disorders that impact how he thinks so the world around him is confusing and he's reacting physically because this is the only way he knows how.

You mentioned that after he was told he would miss a big school event he lashed out even more. This seems like a clear sign that he's angry with what's been going on at the school or himself and that cannot feel good.

[Anonymous]

In looking at the function of the behavior could it be that the AAP center is causing him huge anxiety due to the increased workload and he's acting out because he wants to leave? He may not even know it himself but is it possible that because of his ADHD and other issues he's not able to do the work he knows he's capable of doing and feels terrible about himself and is taking it out on others? Or is so stressed out that every little issue becomes overblown?

If it turns out your child does need a more restrictive environment I would urge you to consider it but in my opinion it's too soon without figuring out why he's acting this way since it doesn't sound like it was this bad the previous 2 years.

It's possible he may have some other type of disorder you need to deal with and it's better for him to be in a new setting. But at this point it's just as possible , I think, that it has to do with something else completely and that you can help him through this without having to resort to a SN school or a self-contained classroom.

[Anonymous]

OP, I could have written this post. Hang in there. It will get better.

My DS with ADHD/HFA enrolled in the AAP center for 3rd grade. We had met with the teachers and asked a lot of questions before sending him, and were assured that they could handle kids like him. However, the woman who would have been his teacher left over the summer and we were not informed of the change. She was replaced by a 1st year teacher who had no special ed experience.

When we saw the class assignments posted on the front door of the school prior to the first day, we didn't recognize the teacher's name and wondered what had happened. Did the teacher we talked to in the Spring get married over the summer and change her name? We had no idea that he was now assigned to someone who had only done student teaching. By that point, DS was so excited to go to the center, that we sent him. He did fine for the first month or so, but then we started to get phone calls and emails that his behavior was becoming a problem. He has an IEP, but in reality he was receiving very little special ed support in the classroom and his anxiety was causing him to act out. The only way the inexperienced teacher could deal with him was send him to the principal. In meetings, it was clear that staff could/would not devote the special ed resources he needed. It was clear that they thought an AAP kid should only need minimal organizational help or preferential seating. (This center is an overcrowded Title I school).

His bus driver had also mentioned to me that DS's teachers were making his behavior situation worse by getting in his face all the time and publicly shaming him. This angered me, but after I learned that he was being secluded in a small, windowless room away from his classmates for much of the day, I scheduled an appointment with a child psychiatrist. The psychiatrist told me to get him out of the AAP center as soon as possible. The next day, we put him back at his base school - where everyone was wonderful, welcoming, and very supportive.

He is now doing much better in general ed at the base school. If we had kept him at the AAP center, I'm sure they would have eventually pushed for placement in an emotionally disturbed school. However, his outbursts stemmed from frustration caused by lack of special ed services that he should have been receiving. They just didn't want to deal with a 2E kid.

If your son was not violent before going to the AAP center, he may be better off at the base school. Anxiety may be what's causing him to act out. Talk to staff there and see what they recommend. Good luck to you. I know what you're going through is torture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I mean this in the nicest way-Please stop calling your child violent. Yes, he's reacting aggressively because of stress or anxiety or whatever the reason may be but that's not the same at all as a child who willfully hits others at random because it's fun or because he wants to feel in control like a bully.

You should also stop thinking of him as having a mental illness in the traditional sense. He has neurodevelopmental disorders that impact how he thinks so the world around him is confusing and he's reacting physically because this is the only way he knows how.

You mentioned that after he was told he would miss a big school event he lashed out even more. This seems like a clear sign that he's angry with what's been going on at the school or himself and that cannot feel good.

+1

I am the pp who has an 8 yr old with ASD/ADHD who went through something similar last year in 2nd grade. Your child is Not being "violent" on purpose but basically freaking out and lashing out bc there is something "off" at school.

Please be careful with language.

My DS is not in AAP but in a language immersion program since prek4. It is possible to get the right supports and have your child thrive but you have to have the school team on your side.

Start with the FBA. Why is your school suspending your DS when his behavior is clearly due to his disability? And the behaviors are obviously out of his control and the suspensions make absolutely zero difference in his behavior. My child was never suspended not once.

1. See how the FBA and behavioral intervention plan work. I can't believe they suspended your DS that many times and it is now November. It really sounds like the school does not want him there. Hire an advocate. At the very least, they should stop the suspensions and get your child more IEP hours or even an aide until these issues are sorted out.

2. Why is he on the Risperadol? What is it suppose to do for him? Adderall should not be given to someone with anxiety. His meds need to be changed. You may want to call up the Ross Center and see Dr Daniel Pine who works with kids with anxiety disorders.

My child is on Focalin XR for his ADHD, combined type, but I actually prefer him off. It makes him weepy and emotional which he normally never is. My DS does not have an anxiety disorder but I can see how a stimulant will make any anxiety issues worse.

3. Get a new neuropsych. The wait to see Dr. Black will be long at least 6 months but it sounds like you need an expert. It will be worth it.

Hang in there! It can get better.

[Anonymous]

22:59 here. I agree with pp. who said that your child is not violent on purpose, but is likely reacting to something "off" at school.R

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would reccommend you call Sharon Weiss. She is a behaviorist and often acts as an advocate for families at FCPS. She will help you. Ask the psychiatrist about an SSRI like Prozac. This could help with the anxiety/rigidity. Also, you may want to think about his diet. Does he drink a lot of milk- eat a lot of yogurt? Too much casein can hamper the ability to cope.

So sorry to hear this OP. Sounds like you are doing all the right things.

I was going to make the same rec. I think Sharon Weiss once worked at FCPS too. Also I completely agree with others-Adderall might be exacerbating the situation since irritability is one of the most common side effects. It sounds like the current meds aren't the right mix, right meds or right dose so that would be my first things to look at. Has the psychiatrist ever tried focalin? What about more traditional anti-anxiety drugs? I am NOT a psychiatrist. I am simply throwing out names of things friends or we have tried that were helpful.

I also think it's worth looking at diet. I am sure some people are rolling their eyes, but if you haven't already I'd decrease sugar, avoid all artificial coloring, go organic for at least the dirty dozen fruits and veggies, and do minimally processed foods as much as you can without driving yourself nuts. If you haven't I would also experiment with removing things like dairy, soy and/or gluten, but do so gradually. Unfortunately, it can take months to see results with gluten and casein removal, but I tend to take the leave no stone unturned approach and it helped.

Thinking of you OP. Please keep us posted.

[Anonymous]

OP - I haven't had a chance to read all the replies yet but you need Lourie Center School!!! They are amazing. They have one student from FCPS right now.

Call the principal, Theresa, ASAP to discuss your child. She is wonderful and compassionate and SUPER knowledgable.

[Anonymous]

Also to the PP who says kids with anxiety shouldn't be on stimulants - you are wrong and should not give out medical advice. My child has both ADHD and anxiety and is taking meds for both. If you give her the anti-anxiety meds but forget the Concerta - watch out. Her behavior spikes and she feels WORSE about herself, which makes the anxiety worse.

According to her psych, plenty of kids need a combo of both types of meds. In our case, it's clonidine and concerta that are helping her be successful at home and at school.