Advice on school options for violent child

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I mean this in the nicest way-Please stop calling your child violent. Yes, he's reacting aggressively because of stress or anxiety or whatever the reason may be but that's not the same at all as a child who willfully hits others at random because it's fun or because he wants to feel in control like a bully.

You should also stop thinking of him as having a mental illness in the traditional sense. He has neurodevelopmental disorders that impact how he thinks so the world around him is confusing and he's reacting physically because this is the only way he knows how.

You mentioned that after he was told he would miss a big school event he lashed out even more. This seems like a clear sign that he's angry with what's been going on at the school or himself and that cannot feel good.

+ a million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I am the pp who has an 8 yr old with ASD/ADHD who went through something similar last year in 2nd grade. Your child is Not being "violent" on purpose but basically freaking out and lashing out bc there is something "off" at school.

Please be careful with language.

My DS is not in AAP but in a language immersion program since prek4. It is possible to get the right supports and have your child thrive but you have to have the school team on your side.

Start with the FBA. Why is your school suspending your DS when his behavior is clearly due to his disability? And the behaviors are obviously out of his control and the suspensions make absolutely zero difference in his behavior. My child was never suspended not once.

1. See how the FBA and behavioral intervention plan work. I can't believe they suspended your DS that many times and it is now November. It really sounds like the school does not want him there. Hire an advocate. At the very least, they should stop the suspensions and get your child more IEP hours or even an aide until these issues are sorted out.

2. Why is he on the Risperadol? What is it suppose to do for him? Adderall should not be given to someone with anxiety. His meds need to be changed. You may want to call up the Ross Center and see Dr Daniel Pine who works with kids with anxiety disorders.

My child is on Focalin XR for his ADHD, combined type, but I actually prefer him off. It makes him weepy and emotional which he normally never is. My DS does not have an anxiety disorder but I can see how a stimulant will make any anxiety issues worse.

3. Get a new neuropsych. The wait to see Dr. Black will be long at least 6 months but it sounds like you need an expert. It will be worth it.

Hang in there! It can get better.

OP, There is a lot of good advice here but this is one of the most important posts so I wanted to highlight and add to what this PP said.

The main thing is that you need to recognize YOU ARE NOT AT A GOOD SCHOOL. Your school is not being supportive. Your school does not want to help and they are just building a case to get your son out of there. A good school would never repeatedly suspend a child this age with a known disability without throwing every type of intervention at him first. It's unfathomable that they have not put a BIP into place and are dragging their feet. You should be meeting with them every time there is an incident and trying to figure out next steps. They should have contacted the county's central office to request that a behaviorist come and observe your son. You cannot just keep sending him back there hoping he magically changes. He's awfully young and is probably angry and terrified of what's going on. The school needs to make changes in their supports and how they work with your son. The IEP is clearly inadequate.

Please stop putting this all on your son. It's great that you recognize he has a lot of challenges and it's possible he may need a self-contained classroom or a SN school but I don't think you have information yet. You need to get him to an environment where they are actually working with you to put the right supports into place and to decide after that whether he needs more help than they can give him in a mainstream school.

If you want to keep your son there despite all signs pointing to the fact that this school administration stinks, I would 1. call the county and get their oversight and 2. get an outside observer in there right away to figure out what is going on. It could be an advocate but it could could be a psychologist, behavioral specialist, etc. or someone else you trust. But if I were you I would move him back to his base school where he seems to have been relatively happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also to the PP who says kids with anxiety shouldn't be on stimulants - you are wrong and should not give out medical advice. My child has both ADHD and anxiety and is taking meds for both. If you give her the anti-anxiety meds but forget the Concerta - watch out. Her behavior spikes and she feels WORSE about herself, which makes the anxiety worse.

According to her psych, plenty of kids need a combo of both types of meds. In our case, it's clonidine and concerta that are helping her be successful at home and at school.

I agree we should not give advice and we need to watch our wording, but I do think it is important to say "look into this." I'm glad to hear Adderall worked for your child. Yes, some drugs work well together and sometimes it is hard to find the right "cocktail" as a psychiatrist we met once said. The thing is Adderall can also exacerbate the aggressive behavior and OP might not have been told that. Too often parents are not given enough info about side effects and are just left to try to read the very tiny print. Also, Adderall is a highly regulated drug for a reason and insurance companies are paying much closer attention to it and in some cases they are making it harder to get the prescription covered. You have to get yearly clearance from your provider and the government and you must see your provider a certain number of times a year.

Risperdal is a very powerful drug. While not regulated the way Adderall is, it can have some pretty serious side effects. It is life changing for some in a good way. The thing is it is often tried after other meds are tried and not as the go to drug for children with extreme anxiety. I believe it's an antipsychotic. I don't recall how much research has been done on children with this drug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also to the PP who says kids with anxiety shouldn't be on stimulants - you are wrong and should not give out medical advice. My child has both ADHD and anxiety and is taking meds for both. If you give her the anti-anxiety meds but forget the Concerta - watch out. Her behavior spikes and she feels WORSE about herself, which makes the anxiety worse.

According to her psych, plenty of kids need a combo of both types of meds. In our case, it's clonidine and concerta that are helping her be successful at home and at school.

I agree we should not give advice and we need to watch our wording, but I do think it is important to say "look into this." I'm glad to hear Adderall worked for your child. Yes, some drugs work well together and sometimes it is hard to find the right "cocktail" as a psychiatrist we met once said. The thing is Adderall can also exacerbate the aggressive behavior and OP might not have been told that. Too often parents are not given enough info about side effects and are just left to try to read the very tiny print. Also, Adderall is a highly regulated drug for a reason and insurance companies are paying much closer attention to it and in some cases they are making it harder to get the prescription covered. You have to get yearly clearance from your provider and the government and you must see your provider a certain number of times a year.

Risperdal is a very powerful drug. While not regulated the way Adderall is, it can have some pretty serious side effects. It is life changing for some in a good way. The thing is it is often tried after other meds are tried and not as the go to drug for children with extreme anxiety. I believe it's an antipsychotic. I don't recall how much research has been done on children with this drug.

+1

Risperdal and the other atypical antipsychotics can be very helpful, but there is a CUMULATIVE risk of an irreversible movement disorder, tardive dyskinesia. They should not be thought of as a long term solution.

[Anonymous]

OP, I mean this in the nicest way-Please stop calling your child violent. Yes, he's reacting aggressively because of stress or anxiety or whatever the reason may be but that's not the same at all as a child who willfully hits others at random because it's fun or because he wants to feel in control like a bully.

You should also stop thinking of him as having a mental illness in the traditional sense. He has neurodevelopmental disorders that impact how he thinks so the world around him is confusing and he's reacting physically because this is the only way he knows how.

You mentioned that after he was told he would miss a big school event he lashed out even more. This seems like a clear sign that he's angry with what's been going on at the school or himself and that cannot feel good.




+1

I am the pp who has an 8 yr old with ASD/ADHD who went through something similar last year in 2nd grade. Your child is Not being "violent" on purpose but basically freaking out and lashing out bc there is something "off" at school.

Please be careful with language.

Stop. While the cause of the behavior isn't willful, it results in violent behavior. Violence is a the physical expression of aggression and it sounds like that what OP's DS is - violent. Using euphemisms downplays the seriousness of the issue and certainly diminishes the impact on his victims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I am the pp who has an 8 yr old with ASD/ADHD who went through something similar last year in 2nd grade. Your child is Not being "violent" on purpose but basically freaking out and lashing out bc there is something "off" at school.

Please be careful with language.

Stop. While the cause of the behavior isn't willful, it results in violent behavior. Violence is a the physical expression of aggression and it sounds like that what OP's DS is - violent. Using euphemisms downplays the seriousness of the issue and certainly diminishes the impact on his victims.

If you use that logic then your 18 month old should be called "violent" for hitting a child to get access to a toy and your infant violent for biting another child because he is teething. Please. No one is saying the child doesn't have some challenges but there a huge difference between calling someone "violent" and referring to his or her actions as violence. I think that's what PPs are trying to say.

[Anonymous]

Would you also call the girl who pushed OP's son into a coat rack violent? Sounds kind of aggressive to me. Why wasn't she suspended?
In the same way the school is telling her that was an accident you could argue the biting was also an accident. She didn't mean to push OP's son into a coat rack. My guess is he didn't mean to bite. He's acting instinctively as a toddler might in his own

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would you also call the girl who pushed OP's son into a coat rack violent? Sounds kind of aggressive to me. Why wasn't she suspended?
In the same way the school is telling her that was an accident you could argue the biting was also an accident. She didn't mean to push OP's son into a coat rack. My guess is he didn't mean to bite. He's acting instinctively as a toddler might in his own

Yes, if she aggressively pushed him into the coat rack, then she was also violent. OP described the incident as a bump, which is not violent. Words are important, as is accuracy.

[Anonymous]

Yes, PP.

Precision with words is important and if you knew how to read you would have seen that OP said her son was
"was pushed into a coat rack accidentally" by this other student.

[Anonymous]

How do you push someone accidentally?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, PP.

Precision with words is important and if you knew how to read you would have seen that OP said her son was
"was pushed into a coat rack accidentally" by this other student.

I apologize for getting caught up in getting this thread off-topic. I just disagree with PPs who say that OP should not describe her son's actions as violent. OP seems to be very aware of her son, the problems he's having, and is looking for solutions.

[Anonymous]

Was there a marked change in his behavior from the base school last year (2nd grade) to the AAP school (3rd grade)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you push someone accidentally?

Maybe while the pushing was not accidental, going into and hitting the coat rack was. When I was 3, I pushed by brother, 2, off the steps to get him out of the way. Did not intend that he keep rolling and rolling until he hit a hot wood stove with his face. Poor guy still has the scar to this day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would you also call the girl who pushed OP's son into a coat rack violent? Sounds kind of aggressive to me. Why wasn't she suspended?
In the same way the school is telling her that was an accident you could argue the biting was also an accident. She didn't mean to push OP's son into a coat rack. My guess is he didn't mean to bite. He's acting instinctively as a toddler might in his own

With typical through special needs kids, pushing and shoving is within the range of normal acting out behavior for a third grader. I would not consider that to be violent and I am sure most others would not either, absent violent intent.

Biting anyone as a child as old as OPs kid is indeed violent behavior, whether the kid is typical or special ed. It is far outol of the range for a behavior for a kid of that age, even if he is special needs. If he were a biting two or even three year old preschooler or toddler it would be very different. But he is a third grader (8-9 years old) and biting from that age group is a violent behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am the pp who has an 8 yr old with ASD/ADHD who went through something similar last year in 2nd grade. Your child is Not being "violent" on purpose but basically freaking out and lashing out bc there is something "off" at school.

Please be careful with language.

My DS is not in AAP but in a language immersion program since prek4. It is possible to get the right supports and have your child thrive but you have to have the school team on your side.

Start with the FBA. Why is your school suspending your DS when his behavior is clearly due to his disability? And the behaviors are obviously out of his control and the suspensions make absolutely zero difference in his behavior. My child was never suspended not once.

1. See how the FBA and behavioral intervention plan work. I can't believe they suspended your DS that many times and it is now November. It really sounds like the school does not want him there. Hire an advocate. At the very least, they should stop the suspensions and get your child more IEP hours or even an aide until these issues are sorted out.

2. Why is he on the Risperadol? What is it suppose to do for him? Adderall should not be given to someone with anxiety. His meds need to be changed. You may want to call up the Ross Center and see Dr Daniel Pine who works with kids with anxiety disorders.

My child is on Focalin XR for his ADHD, combined type, but I actually prefer him off. It makes him weepy and emotional which he normally never is. My DS does not have an anxiety disorder but I can see how a stimulant will make any anxiety issues worse.

3. Get a new neuropsych. The wait to see Dr. Black will be long at least 6 months but it sounds like you need an expert. It will be worth it.

Hang in there! It can get better.

I am the above poster. Last year when this was happening, I filed a state complaint. DS's IEP was not being followed. It was very helpful to have OSSE (we are in DC) looking over the school's shoulder.
The school became much more cooperative and even though their violations were minor in regards to the IEP, it made everyone try a little harder to get FAPE for DS.

Something you may want to consider since your third grader has been suspended 7 times within what? 9 weeks of school?!?

Our advocate and developmental pediatrician were both telling us that another placement was needed. They turned out to be wrong. DS now in third is doing well socially and academically and is a happy kid again still at the same school, a complete 180 degree turn around AND DS does not want to change schools anymore (which he did when all this was going on in 2nd grade).

You may also want to consider the possibility that your DS may NOT have an anxiety disorder at all but is anxious bc he keeps getting in trouble at school and is not receiving adequate supports.