Advice on school options for violent child

[Anonymous]

Re:pushing being accidental. Have you been inside your local public school? In my kids classes it's a lot of kids in a small room and they bump into eachother all the time. I have found it hard moving around when volunteering and some are at their desks, some are up, a few are on the floor. My older kid reports getting bumped into, accidentally stepping on hands, etc often. He knows it isn't on purpose, but it happens at least once or twice a week.

Also, OP the chances of the county paying for a private placement are low to none. Many people have hired lawyers. They would likely try several placements before you'd even have a chance.

OP you are really on the ball with this and your child is lucky to have you. As others have mentioned I would explore whether academic plays into this. Some kids act out because they are bored and AAP makes that better. Some act out because they are overwhelmed and feeling bad about themselves and AAP might make that worse. It's hard to go from being at the top the be surrounded by super stars.The teachers can be intense. The kids can be intense.

[Anonymous]

I am the PP who asked about pushing being accidental and I've seen plenty of accidental bumps and plenty of other accidental physical contact in schools. My question stems from the fact that OP described it specifically as accidental pushing which is probably the language the school used.

I'm not questioning how problematic her child's reaction to this is but I'm raising concerns about the possibility that she may not be getting the full story from the school.

OP's child's behavior has taken a marked turn for the worse this year and it makes me wonder whether there may be any bulling going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
With typical through special needs kids, pushing and shoving is within the range of normal acting out behavior for a third grader. I would not consider that to be violent and I am sure most others would not either, absent violent intent.
Biting anyone as a child as old as OPs kid is indeed violent behavior, whether the kid is typical or special ed. It is far outol of the range for a behavior for a kid of that age, even if he is special needs. If he were a biting two or even three year old preschooler or toddler it would be very different. But he is a third grader (8-9 years old) and biting from that age group is a violent behavior.

I would agree with most of this but not the part about the biting necessarily being "violent." It's definitely out of the range of normal for this age but humans of all ages do this as an instinctive protective mechanism. It isn't like he's going around biting kids for no reason. If you felt you were physically attacked by someone and felt threatened even you might bite back. No one is calling victims of attacks who bite their attackers violent. From the perspective of a young child with ADHD, ASD, OT issues, speech issues, anxiety and who knows what else he might have felt like this push was an attack.

[Anonymous]

I don't think a kid who can be aggressive should be on stimulants. Start there and give him some time to unwind. Make sure he gets plenty of exercise. See if a magnesium supplement like Natural Calm can help calm his nervous system, to be used for a short time like a couple of months.

[Anonymous]

[quote=It's hard to go from being at the top the be surrounded by super stars.The teachers can be intense. The kids can be intense.



This was true for my DS. Also, the AAP program had a ton of "small group" work that was just not good for him. He does much better when adults are clearly in charge of the lesson. Take a room full of kids who are all used to being the smartest at their base schools, add a fast-paced and highly competitive environment where the kids are all pushing to be "top dog", and it's very hard for many 3rd graders to handle - not just those with disabilities. The teachers often fuel the rivalry, too.

It also seems like AAP programs vary greatly in quality county-wide. I've heard that some are great with 2e kids and some are terrible.

[Anonymous]

Guys, we are getting far off track of actually helping OP.

[Anonymous]

Respectfully, I don't think the conversation is off track.

I think some PPs are suggesting OP change her own thinking about her son's behaviors being "violent." Not everyone agrees but I think there are good arguments on both sides to consider. I think that if OP thinks her own son is violent she will move towards one path and if she thinks differently she will move down a different path.

She also never really mentioned academics and stress over being a 2e kid so I personally think it's very helpful that PPs shared their own experiences in that regard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
With typical through special needs kids, pushing and shoving is within the range of normal acting out behavior for a third grader. I would not consider that to be violent and I am sure most others would not either, absent violent intent.
Biting anyone as a child as old as OPs kid is indeed violent behavior, whether the kid is typical or special ed. It is far outol of the range for a behavior for a kid of that age, even if he is special needs. If he were a biting two or even three year old preschooler or toddler it would be very different. But he is a third grader (8-9 years old) and biting from that age group is a violent behavior.

I would agree with most of this but not the part about the biting necessarily being "violent." It's definitely out of the range of normal for this age but humans of all ages do this as an instinctive protective mechanism. It isn't like he's going around biting kids for no reason. If you felt you were physically attacked by someone and felt threatened even you might bite back. No one is calling victims of attacks who bite their attackers violent. From the perspective of a young child with ADHD, ASD, OT issues, speech issues, anxiety and who knows what else he might have felt like this push was an attack.

But, also consider the fact that when OP's child was informed that he was being suspended and missing a desired activity, he kicked his paraeducator. There's a lot going on and I hope things work out well for OP and her family.

[Anonymous]

oOP, I'm sorry I don't have time to read the whole thread now, but I wanted to add this in case it was helpful. We've found that my child has a very adverse reaction to certain generic suppliers of adderal xr. I think the supplier does not have the extended release mechanism down and it wears off weirdly, causing him to have extreme emotional reactions and aggressive behavior. I made the pharmacy switch us back to another supplier and tag his record. Are you getting a generic? Are these problems recent? Just something to think about. I was going to tough it out with the inferior supplier until my son bit me...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But, also consider the fact that when OP's child was informed that he was being suspended and missing a desired activity, he kicked his paraeducator. There's a lot going on and I hope things work out well for OP and her family.

At some point when people expect a some kids to be "bad" they start acting "bad." This is just my theory but from the details OP has provided I see an overwhelmed child who has become an angry child and what the school is doing is not helping. They are either completely misguided in their outdated in their punitive approach or they don't give a crap about OP's son and just want the problem (the kid) to go away.

[Anonymous]

My son was on risperdal for a while. I don't like that med. It didn't help and when we came off it we had major aggression. After a while the aggression disappeared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But, also consider the fact that when OP's child was informed that he was being suspended and missing a desired activity, he kicked his paraeducator. There's a lot going on and I hope things work out well for OP and her family.

At some point when people expect a some kids to be "bad" they start acting "bad." This is just my theory but from the details OP has provided I see an overwhelmed child who has become an angry child and what the school is doing is not helping. They are either completely misguided in their outdated in their punitive approach or they don't give a crap about OP's son and just want the problem (the kid) to go away.

I agree there's a difference between calling a child 'violent' and calling behavior 'violent'. I also agree OP's DS is likely overwhelmed and in a poor environment. But to say the behavior isn't violent is incorrect and minimizes the severity of the issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But, also consider the fact that when OP's child was informed that he was being suspended and missing a desired activity, he kicked his paraeducator. There's a lot going on and I hope things work out well for OP and her family.

At some point when people expect a some kids to be "bad" they start acting "bad." This is just my theory but from the details OP has provided I see an overwhelmed child who has become an angry child and what the school is doing is not helping. They are either completely misguided in their outdated in their punitive approach or they don't give a crap about OP's son and just want the problem (the kid) to go away.

I agree there's a difference between calling a child 'violent' and calling behavior 'violent'. I also agree OP's DS is likely overwhelmed and in a poor environment. But to say the behavior isn't violent is incorrect and minimizes the severity of the issue.

The FBA should help. I am the poster whose 2nd grader had similar issues last yr. My child would kick and scratch the Sp Ed teacher whenever she grabbed him. Mind you, DS never kicked or scratched (or anything else violent) to anyone else in his life but her... but no one had ever grabbed and held him like she did either.

I think before characterizing a child as "violent", you should get information on what is causing the behaviors.

[Anonymous]

My 3rd grade FCPS child is in an ED center, and it has been a lifesaver. The academics are identical to other 3rd graders (although since the class is smaller, the teacher can tailor some lessons to the kids' particular interests). A good number of the kids are partially mainstreamed. The teachers and support staff are wonderful.

From what I've heard, the quality of the centers can vary within the county, but I'm thankful every day that my child is in the program. But when we were first told of the option, we were not at all sold on it, so I understand your concerns.

The school should be able to get you in contact with parents of current students in the program so you can get the real scoop on how it works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The FBA should help. I am the poster whose 2nd grader had similar issues last yr. My child would kick and scratch the Sp Ed teacher whenever she grabbed him. Mind you, DS never kicked or scratched (or anything else violent) to anyone else in his life but her... but no one had ever grabbed and held him like she did either.

I think before characterizing a child as "violent", you should get information on what is causing the behaviors.

Same thing happened to a kid of a friend of mine. He suddenly did things like this and the parents were shocked as they hadn't seen this type of behavior before ever. It turned out the school was manhandling him by grabbing, carrying, pushing, etc. when he wasn't being cooperative. Thankfully they could afford to pull this child out and put him in private in the middle of the year and lo and behold, none of these behaviors followed. The kid had severe sensory issues and it turned out he was terrified of the school staff.