When can a child be expelled for being too much of a disruption

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No the rest of the kids learn compassion and empathy - unlike their parents. Perhaps that's what's wrong with the country nowadays - not enough compassion and empathy. Too much what's in it for me and mine. Like not getting your children vaccinated. Not wanting to pay for good public schools or public school lunches. Just not caring about anyone other than your circle of friends and family.

Maybe the kids should be learning English and math. Maybe that is what's wrong with the country nowadays.

+1

Or not.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/06/most-kids-believe-that-achievement-trumps-empathy/373378/

How can one expect a 10 year old to have compassion and show empathy if he/she is being bitten or touched inappropriately? "Excuse me Bobby, please don't touch my breasts today. Are you having an "off" day" ??

Actually - Yes. Accept without the sarcasm. "Bobby - Don't touch me there. That's inappropriate, and I am going to tell the teacher." Then, as stated before - she should talk to the teacher about it, so the teacher can make the right call regarding what needs to happen next. When she tells you as a parent what happened -you then don't fly off the handle and say things like that child is a pervert or should be expelled! You explain that sometimes children have issues, don't know boundaries and need to be taught the right way to interact with others. What he did was highly inappropriate, and she was right to tell the teacher. Doesn't mean she can't have compassion and empathy for him. If she is sarcastic and then makes fun of him for not understanding and tells everyone and tries to shame him- that's not compassionate nor is it empathetic, and may be counterproductive in the long run.

Wow! Your child touches my child in a sexual way or bites her and she needs to be an adult? This is sexual harassment and it can scar my child, who is also a child. Just because my child is not SN, should she be penalized for that?

If this would happen to someone's kid, I am sure their first instinct would be to do bodily harm to the SN kid. So, yeah, the compassion flies out of the window very fast when you are faced with that situation.

I do not know what the solution is. It is heartbreaking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Actually - Yes. Accept without the sarcasm. "Bobby - Don't touch me there. That's inappropriate, and I am going to tell the teacher." Then, as stated before - she should talk to the teacher about it, so the teacher can make the right call regarding what needs to happen next. When she tells you as a parent what happened -you then don't fly off the handle and say things like that child is a pervert or should be expelled! You explain that sometimes children have issues, don't know boundaries and need to be taught the right way to interact with others. What he did was highly inappropriate, and she was right to tell the teacher. Doesn't mean she can't have compassion and empathy for him. If she is sarcastic and then makes fun of him for not understanding and tells everyone and tries to shame him- that's not compassionate nor is it empathetic, and may be counterproductive in the long run.

Are you f'in kidding me??

I'm not the PP you responded to, but you expect someone to tell their DD to have empathy and compassion to a boy who touches her a&& or breasts? No way. I have 2 boys and a girl, and there is no way, no how I'm teaching my DDs to respond with empathy or compassion if someone gropes them. You are way out of line, and honestly, you're doing your own daughters a disservice if you're teaching them to be compassionate toward someone who is basically sexually assaulting them. OP's kid is in 4th grade. That's almost middle school. Would you be okay with this going on in a MS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually - Yes. Accept without the sarcasm. "Bobby - Don't touch me there. That's inappropriate, and I am going to tell the teacher." Then, as stated before - she should talk to the teacher about it, so the teacher can make the right call regarding what needs to happen next. When she tells you as a parent what happened -you then don't fly off the handle and say things like that child is a pervert or should be expelled! You explain that sometimes children have issues, don't know boundaries and need to be taught the right way to interact with others. What he did was highly inappropriate, and she was right to tell the teacher. Doesn't mean she can't have compassion and empathy for him. If she is sarcastic and then makes fun of him for not understanding and tells everyone and tries to shame him- that's not compassionate nor is it empathetic, and may be counterproductive in the long run.

Are you f'in kidding me??

I'm not the PP you responded to, but you expect someone to tell their DD to have empathy and compassion to a boy who touches her a&& or breasts? No way. I have 2 boys and a girl, and there is no way, no how I'm teaching my DDs to respond with empathy or compassion if someone gropes them. You are way out of line, and honestly, you're doing your own daughters a disservice if you're teaching them to be compassionate toward someone who is basically sexually assaulting them. OP's kid is in 4th grade. That's almost middle school. Would you be okay with this going on in a MS?

Thank you! Finally a sane response!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually - Yes. Accept without the sarcasm. "Bobby - Don't touch me there. That's inappropriate, and I am going to tell the teacher." Then, as stated before - she should talk to the teacher about it, so the teacher can make the right call regarding what needs to happen next. When she tells you as a parent what happened -you then don't fly off the handle and say things like that child is a pervert or should be expelled! You explain that sometimes children have issues, don't know boundaries and need to be taught the right way to interact with others. What he did was highly inappropriate, and she was right to tell the teacher. Doesn't mean she can't have compassion and empathy for him. If she is sarcastic and then makes fun of him for not understanding and tells everyone and tries to shame him- that's not compassionate nor is it empathetic, and may be counterproductive in the long run.

Are you f'in kidding me??

I'm not the PP you responded to, but you expect someone to tell their DD to have empathy and compassion to a boy who touches her a&& or breasts? No way. I have 2 boys and a girl, and there is no way, no how I'm teaching my DDs to respond with empathy or compassion if someone gropes them. You are way out of line, and honestly, you're doing your own daughters a disservice if you're teaching them to be compassionate toward someone who is basically sexually assaulting them. OP's kid is in 4th grade. That's almost middle school. Would you be okay with this going on in a MS?

Thank you! Finally a sane response!

I know! What will the first PP raise her daughter to be? In college, if she gets gang raped, is she supposed to feel compassion for the rapists? If she gets sexually assaulted at a college party, is she still supposed to feel compassion for the assaulters?

In any thread about sexual assault, should we be telling other posters not to do anything and just have the victim tell the attackers "Don't touch me. That's inappropriate. I know you are having an off day".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually - Yes. Accept without the sarcasm. "Bobby - Don't touch me there. That's inappropriate, and I am going to tell the teacher." Then, as stated before - she should talk to the teacher about it, so the teacher can make the right call regarding what needs to happen next. When she tells you as a parent what happened -you then don't fly off the handle and say things like that child is a pervert or should be expelled! You explain that sometimes children have issues, don't know boundaries and need to be taught the right way to interact with others. What he did was highly inappropriate, and she was right to tell the teacher. Doesn't mean she can't have compassion and empathy for him. If she is sarcastic and then makes fun of him for not understanding and tells everyone and tries to shame him- that's not compassionate nor is it empathetic, and may be counterproductive in the long run.

Are you f'in kidding me??

I'm not the PP you responded to, but you expect someone to tell their DD to have empathy and compassion to a boy who touches her a&& or breasts? No way. I have 2 boys and a girl, and there is no way, no how I'm teaching my DDs to respond with empathy or compassion if someone gropes them. You are way out of line, and honestly, you're doing your own daughters a disservice if you're teaching them to be compassionate toward someone who is basically sexually assaulting them. OP's kid is in 4th grade. That's almost middle school. Would you be okay with this going on in a MS?

Thank you! Finally a sane response!

I know! What will the first PP raise her daughter to be? In college, if she gets gang raped, is she supposed to feel compassion for the rapists? If she gets sexually assaulted at a college party, is she still supposed to feel compassion for the assaulters?

In any thread about sexual assault, should we be telling other posters not to do anything and just have the victim tell the attackers "Don't touch me. That's inappropriate. I know you are having an off day".

No I am sure the pp will come back with a response along the lines of : a 10 year-old is not capable of sexual harassment, which is shit. When I was in ES etc. this type of behavior would be expulsion. I am so disgusted by what behavior is put up with now...special needs or not. You do not touch a girl or boy on their private areas. Its disgusting.

[Anonymous]

No I am sure the pp will come back with a response along the lines of : a 10 year-old is not capable of sexual harassment, which is shit. When I was in ES etc. this type of behavior would be expulsion. I am so disgusted by what behavior is put up with now...special needs or not. You do not touch a girl or boy on their private areas. Its disgusting.

+1 I am also disgusted. There are no consequences anymore. No fear. No drawing the line. Instead, we have to practice positive reinforcement. The teachers are put in powerless positions. There are not given any way to manage the classroom that is effective. Just told to pussy foot around. Rotten kids can smell that a mile away and act on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
No I am sure the pp will come back with a response along the lines of : a 10 year-old is not capable of sexual harassment, which is shit. When I was in ES etc. this type of behavior would be expulsion. I am so disgusted by what behavior is put up with now...special needs or not. You do not touch a girl or boy on their private areas. Its disgusting.

+1 I am also disgusted. There are no consequences anymore. No fear. No drawing the line. Instead, we have to practice positive reinforcement. The teachers are put in powerless positions. There are not given any way to manage the classroom that is effective. Just told to pussy foot around. Rotten kids can smell that a mile away and act on it.

Agree with this. I feel for the teachers. They're expected to manage all these crazy behavioral problems, in addition to doing their jobs. It's unreasonable.

There needs to be immediate and serious consequences for bad behavior.

[Anonymous]

I never said there didn't need to be immediate and serious consequences. You immediately leap to conclusions about what happened and why. Which is why the girl should immediately go to the teacher who can then sort it out and make the appropriate consequences - including removal from the classroom if necessary. 10yo is nothing like a 12-13 yo - hormones, brain development, everything is different. But, sure go ahead, expel the child. God forbid you try to teach children anything other than their ABCs and 123s - its called character education - and it does not involve just kicking kids out without intervention - at least in public school. And yes, you can still teach compassion and empathy to the girl without making it seem like what the other child did was OK. IT is clear it is NOT OK.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like there have been numerous "interventions" over the years and numerous incidents if the boy is in the fourth grade. Again- When is enough enough?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I never said there didn't need to be immediate and serious consequences. You immediately leap to conclusions about what happened and why. Which is why the girl should immediately go to the teacher who can then sort it out and make the appropriate consequences - including removal from the classroom if necessary. 10yo is nothing like a 12-13 yo - hormones, brain development, everything is different. But, sure go ahead, expel the child. God forbid you try to teach children anything other than their ABCs and 123s - its called character education - and it does not involve just kicking kids out without intervention - at least in public school. And yes, you can still teach compassion and empathy to the girl without making it seem like what the other child did was OK. IT is clear it is NOT OK.

No, I'm sorry. The kid deserves to be kicked out until he learns how to behave appropriately around other kids. This is not a kid who's talking too much in class, or not doing his homework. The kid is GROPING another girl in his class. That is unacceptable. You wouldn't tolerate it, why should the OP's daughter.

What conclusions am I leaping to?

And, no. No way am I going to teach my girls to have empathy for someone who's sexually assaulting them. I wouldn't and they shouldn't.

[Anonymous]

There is so much documentation needed, so many steps that need to be followed in the process to deal with unruly/troubled kids -- it can take a long time to work through all of it. Crazy, but that's what they have to do to avoid lawsuits from parents who feel that their little darlings (or should that be little devils?) aren't being treated fairly or given a fair chance. It's all at the expense of the kids who do behave and who do want to learn, of course. It's just one of many things that's wrong in education today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The same thing happened at our W school. A group of parents requested a meeting with the principal and had it out and let the principal know they would not tolerate this behavior.

Then I asked if I could speak... and I did.

I told these parents that I could not believe that they were acting like this. I could not believe that they and their children had been given every single solitary advantage in life and that they could not tolerate one disruptive child. I was embarrassed to call them friends. They were NOT role models and I will ensure my children do not ever consider them in that way ever again. (They were teachers helpers and coaches and every other imaginable thing they could be to micromanage every single second of their children's lives.)

I asked the principal if the family would allow a psychologist (on my dime) to come to the school and coach our children on how to be more caring and compassionate. If they could learn when they could tell this child.. "that is not okay" vs "I am sorry you are having a bad day how can I help". (Eventually, the school counselor got one-on-one instruction from this child's physiologist and she worked with OUR children, not that child.)

Life is not going to be perfect for our children and they need to learn that we are not going to exterminate every single challenge they face. I am sure this family spends every single day worried that their child will be expelled and we are just hastening this end and I would not be a part of it.

Your post makes me feel just as sick I felt that day when a bunch of horrible women and men went to our principal with pitch forks trying to eliminate this child's chance constitutional right to an education at his home school.

The child stayed, is in 7th grade now and doing well.

Shame on you!

(Also, go ahead and tear apart my spelling and grammar.)

Amen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
In another thread about HSs, people were complaining about disruptive kids, and how those schools that have them are terrible. Here, the response is that you should have compassion. But, these ES kids that have these issues grow up to be HS kids that can cause disruptions as well. People don't seem to have much compassion for those HS kids. At what point does the "compassion" convert to "hooligans"? Not saying we shouldn't have compassion for kids, but I just find the dichotomy puzzling.

PP, here's how it works, at least on DCUM: Disruptive children who live in Bethesda and Potomac deserve compassion. Disruptive children who live elsewhere are hooligans.

Disclaimer: I don't personally endorse this point of view.

I was just going to write this exact thing. W school disruptive child - have some compassion for that poor child! Teach your kid how to handle differences

Non-W disruptive child - that is why I'm would never send my child to that school and so glad we go private/W school.

I'm the first PP. This is exactly what I read on here. If a child is disruptive in a lower SES school, especially one with lots of minorities, it's because the parents don't care, don't discipline, etc.. and "this is why my kids need to go to a W school" (that was a title of a post I've read on here a few weeks/months ago). But if a kid is like this in a high SES school, then it's because they have a SN or something. But, I think we've seen that just because you make lots of $ and/or are highly educated, it doesn't mean that you are automatically a good parent, vis a vis, the parents that left their kids in a car to go to a wine bar. I'm sure there are plenty of upper income parents that don't discipline their kids, too. They probably do care more about the kids' grades because they would be ashamed if their kids didn't do well in life like they did.

Uneducated parents are not as aware of IEPs and SNs of kids compared to more educated people, and even if they were, they don't have the means to fight the school districts to provide for the IEPs. They can't take time off from work to meet with the school; they don't have the $ to hire a fancy lawyer or file the lawsuit themselves. And yet, people on here are so quick to label "those" kids as hooligans. Do these people ever wonder if those kids have SNs that are not addressed?

We see this in the court systems with juveniles, too. If you come from a low SES (and minority), chances are you will get a harsher penalty than if you are white and from a high SES (vis a vis the Affluenza kid).

I don't want my kids to be around disruptive kids, either. My 6 yr old DD was punched in the stomach by another 6 yr old in a somewhat affluent school. I don't know whether this kid has a SN or not. I'm not passing judgement on anyone here. I just thought the difference in responses were interesting.

Often these kids are SN, even if not diagnosed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't the district have special ed classes or special schools for kids with this sort of problem. Spec ed teachers with mental health training should be able to handle this kid.

Your school leadership is the "gatekeeper" to these [sometimes costly] services.
Reach out to families.
Support them in getting the help their child needs from the school system, if it is the case.

[Anonymous]

I thought there were no disruptive kids in W schools! According to DCUM there are only disruptive kids in schools for the poors!