When can a child be expelled for being too much of a disruption

[Anonymous]

Nope, sorry, I'm the horrified pp and I'm still horrified. I am struggling to imagine you standing outside the school with your cell phone, calling 911. The police come, and you inform them that your daughter told you that a boy patted her on the butt. I think that is ludicrous and I think law enforcement would agree with me.

Don't you dare play the slippery slope argument and tell me that this is JUST like girls getting raped at college. It's not, the kids are 10 and in elementary school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:At what point can you just call the police and tell them your child has been assaulted? Because that's what's happening.

If a child is sexually assaulted you would absolutely call the police ... Have we learned nothing from the college campus sexual assault cases.

But.... This is most likely not a sexual assault.. It just sounds better if you say it is a sexual assault.

What is your definition of sexual assault? Any unwanted sexual contact? That applies here.

Then call the police if you are certain what happened was a sexual assault.

I know if I thought my child was sexually assaulted I would call the police, not debate the definition on a web board.

I agree with you. I would definitely call the police if there was a boy in DD's 4th grade class who had repeatedly patted her on the a**.

However, I still feel that there should be a strong, no tolerance policy across MCPS saying that that type of behavior will result in expulsion. If there have been X number of incidents, the student needs to be out of the school.

What is MCPS policy on this? I think that's what OP is asking. At what point DOES the student get suspended? If you can answer that clearly, that will address the OP's post.

If the child is sexually abusing students and is arrested for sexual abuse that will probably result in expulsion.

If the kids is just annoying and says inappropriate things he won't be expelled.

Can you provide us (and OP) with a link delineating this policy?

I'd be interested in knowing how they deal with sexual harassment issues (versus sexual assualt).

Is it really that hard to google stuff?

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/sexualharassment/

Remember: There has to be intent.

Thank you for posting this link, PP.

Could you please expand on what you mean by, "there has to be intent"? Intent to do what? Intent to get sexual pleasure out of an act? Intent to commit the act (i.e. I actually meant to touch your boob v. I was pushed by another student and fell into you thereby touching your boob?) Are you saying that there has to be "intent" to be found to have harassed someone? Are you saying there has to be "intent" in sexual assault? Where in the link that you posted is the issue of "intent" mentioned?

[Anonymous]

They don't mention intent in the link. I just know a little about sexual assault.

Yes. Intent means sexual intent. A coach hits a boy on his ass for a good play, no sexual intent.

Falling into someone would be no sexual intent.

Harassment also needs to show intent. I may make an off colored joke and it might offend you, you may feel harassed but if I don't know that and that was not my intent there is no harassment. If you report me and I am told that You think those comments are harassment and I do it again, it is harassment.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Kid spent time with principal again today. Apparently making sexual comments in class and being disruptive. Sigh. So tired of this. Get him OUT of the school!!!

[Anonymous]

The PP is obviously not a lawyer and is 100% wrong about intent. The standard is whether an objective person/child in similar circumstances would feel that the environment was hostile, and whether the harassed child subjectively did feel so. The harassers intent is irrelevant.

If it is as bad as you are making out, then to should follow the harassment policy and then sue under title ix. Google Davis v Monroe county. But everyone should stop acting like the only options are to let girls be sexually harassed or put a little boy in the juvenile justice system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nope, sorry, I'm the horrified pp and I'm still horrified. I am struggling to imagine you standing outside the school with your cell phone, calling 911. The police come, and you inform them that your daughter told you that a boy patted her on the butt. I think that is ludicrous and I think law enforcement would agree with me.

Don't you dare play the slippery slope argument and tell me that this is JUST like girls getting raped at college. It's not, the kids are 10 and in elementary school.

Wow you are an awful bitch. I feel horrible if you actually have a DD. God forbid this happens to her!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"My daughter tells me about instances where he disrupts teaching on a daily basis. Yesterday, music was ruined when he began burping loudly. THe principal actually came into the room and asked him to accompany him to the front office and the kid refused!! After some back and forth, the entire class had to be moved to another room so that the kid could be handled by the principal (since he refused to get up and move) The poor teachers seem not to know what to do. "

The principal clearly knows about the problem. What do you do when an ES student refuses to listen to the principal?

You praise the ES student for being wise enough to see through total BS. Weekly disturbances by one whatever kid needs a new solution. He is not normalized and will not get normalized in this environment. Meanwhile, there will be constant issues for peer students, teachers and then principal (IF people report things, s/he needs the full and constant picture of the reputation of his/her school).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nope, sorry, I'm the horrified pp and I'm still horrified. I am struggling to imagine you standing outside the school with your cell phone, calling 911. The police come, and you inform them that your daughter told you that a boy patted her on the butt. I think that is ludicrous and I think law enforcement would agree with me.

Don't you dare play the slippery slope argument and tell me that this is JUST like girls getting raped at college. It's not, the kids are 10 and in elementary school.

Do you have a daughter? What would you do if this happened to your DD every day at school? The kid was being sent to the principal daily, but ended up right back in the classroom. What would be your advice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Kid spent time with principal again today. Apparently making sexual comments in class and being disruptive. Sigh. So tired of this. Get him OUT of the school!!!

I'd sure like to spend five minutes with this principal and know what the game plan is. I don't need my children's education being some charity case social experiment.

[Anonymous]

Demand your child be switched out of all classes with this individual. They are clearly over-accommodating him so let them do some simple things for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Kid spent time with principal again today. Apparently making sexual comments in class and being disruptive. Sigh. So tired of this. Get him OUT of the school!!!

I'd sure like to spend five minutes with this principal and know what the game plan is. I don't need my children's education being some charity case social experiment.

The game plan is to keep sending the kid back to class and hope that the behavior improves with positive reinforcement. That would be my guess.

[Anonymous]

Principals are pressured by central administration to refrain from referring children for higher levels of service, which can include placing the child at other MCPS schools, or even private special education schools at taxpayer expense.
Some principals value their career and chances for promotion over doing what's right for the child with an emotional disability, the classroom teacher, and the child's parents. It's a shame.

[Anonymous]

This is a reality in all classrooms everywhere. You have a shot in reducing disruptive and out of control kids in private school because they are not mandated by state and county disciplinary guidelines, but in the public school there are few consequences- if any, and suspension would only happen for something really big- a bad fight with kids injured, a weapon, drugs, etc. Disruption?Never. It's a zoo. Yes, it is a zoo.

[Anonymous]

Get these animals out of the class. My DS was in a class with one of these kids. It practically ruined his school year. Makes me sick. The parents are probably laughing every day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Principals are pressured by central administration to refrain from referring children for higher levels of service, which can include placing the child at other MCPS schools, or even private special education schools at taxpayer expense.
Some principals value their career and chances for promotion over doing what's right for the child with an emotional disability, the classroom teacher, and the child's parents. It's a shame.

Absolutely true...and it's really the dirty little secret with providing any type of discipline.Teachers are encouraged to handle all things within the class, and there are all types of subtle coercion to keep the paperwork generally at bay. Kids can be really out of control - completely disruptive and even dangerous with almost no consequences. Schools and principals are rewarded for low disciplinary rates- and it's really easy to make it appear as if there few issues when, in fact, there are huge problems. And here's the biggest secret. If the child has an IEP or is not white- forget it- no disciplinary paperwork will be processed.