SN “Believers” vs SN “Non-Believers” - how to do what is in the best interest of a child

[Anonymous]

Once we were meeting with DC's teacher and discussing how I was considering getting a neuropsych. But then DH said "It's not autism, it's just how everyone in my family naturally is!" I couldn't help but laugh, and watching the teacher try to keep a straight face was hilarious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, sometimes it's SN and also parenting could improve.

In grades PK4-4th I thought my DD had pretty subtle autism. Her PK4 teacher flagged it (and she was the mother of a girl with autism), a few elopements, significant sensory *under*sensitivity, hyperlexia, special interests, generally weak social skills and social anxiety/avoidance. No major behavior problem aside from eloping like 2-3 times total in her preschool/K years. In 5th grade she improved a lot socially and has less special interests, so now in 8th I wouldn't say she meets any ASD criteria, though she's still sensory under-sensitive.

My DH never really bought into the autism possibility, and he thinks it was never a thing. I think the massive effort I put into developing her social skills was effective. So of course it irritates me immensely that he reaps the benefit of my efforts and that my successful intervention is, to him, a reason to dismiss the entire problem and tell me that I was wrong all along. It sucks. But DD is okay now so I've had to let it go.

New poster to this thread. Could you share what you did to support your DD's social skill development?

Well, my DD is very rules-oriented, and I think knowing social "rules" helps with her social anxiety. So I did a lot of explicit explaining of things like if someone says "Hi" to you, they're expecting that you'll say "hi" back, and if you don't say anything or at least wave/smile then they might think you don't want to play with them. (She was 6 years old for that one) She genuinely did not know that kind of thing, and disagreed with my instructions. I helped her to have sort of a "character card" in her head for each friend, knowing a few key activities, likes and dislikes, so that if she didn't know what to talk about, she could fall back on those items. Basically explaining things very explicitly because she wasn't finding it intuitive. Going over examples in books and TV shows about friendship-- it's best not to critique the kid's behavior too much. DD was socially avoidant and tended to read books rather than interact, so I spoke with the teacher about engaging her more and finding friends that she got along well with. Sometimes I signed her up for "jobs" that were social, such as handing out programs at a concert with me. Helping her get past the anxiety by giving her sort of a script or a role was helpful. She tended to freeze up with new people but then relax as she got to know them. But you know, every kid is different. Obviously having COVID happen during early elementary school was not helpful, those are critical years for social development.

Now that she's in middle school, she still applies certain "rules" but more loosely. For example, she knows that attending a friend's sports game or musical performance is an act of friendship, so she does it when she can. To choose birthday gifts for friends, she'll review pictures of them to determine their preferred color scheme and style of dress. It's really cute to hear her fashion analysis. For herself, she sticks to a color palette system that my mom taught me (basically pick a core neutral such as navy, three favorite colors, and a few second-tier-favorite colors), and her fashion choices are very much the median of her friend group-- no fashion risks! She still dislikes group projects, but that's not unusual IMO.

Thank you! I find this very helpful.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thank you for all the replies.

DH is definitely in the category of “I am just like that and I turned out great” and his MD family and friends agree with him. His definition and solution to all parenting issues is punishment, because that’s what his parents did and he turned out “fine”.

I, on the other hand, have tried many things over the years (DS is in upper elementary). From parenting courses to every parenting strategy I could think off and including pretty strict consequences, but nothing takes away DS’ obvious absent mindedness, inability to control high emotions, social skill struggles and anxiety. DS is smart and kind, but makes social mistakes which are driving all his friends away. He can understand his mistakes after the fact, but not at the moment. DS, himself, says he doesn’t understand why he does certain things when he gets upset, or too excited. Teachers, other parents, even friends complain about all of the same issues that I see.

If there is any additional form of parenting strategy I am ready to try it all. I also know that no one is a perfect parent, so most likely, I did contribute to some of the issues. Anything is possible, but it is so hard to seek outside evaluation when DH and I have such differing opinions. I wonder whether psychologists who do the evaluation help with this and take time to address parent concerns (in our case, both mine and DH’s).
I am having hard time imagining DH being ok if we do an evaluation and come back with any type of diagnosis. I think he believes an evaluation would prove me wrong.

[Anonymous]

I think everyone goes through a process when their child gets a diagnosis. It can be hard and probably will be quite hard for your DH. That being said, even if he doesn't accept it, it will still help your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for all the replies.

DH is definitely in the category of “I am just like that and I turned out great” and his MD family and friends agree with him. His definition and solution to all parenting issues is punishment, because that’s what his parents did and he turned out “fine”.

I, on the other hand, have tried many things over the years (DS is in upper elementary). From parenting courses to every parenting strategy I could think off and including pretty strict consequences, but nothing takes away DS’ obvious absent mindedness, inability to control high emotions, social skill struggles and anxiety. DS is smart and kind, but makes social mistakes which are driving all his friends away. He can understand his mistakes after the fact, but not at the moment. DS, himself, says he doesn’t understand why he does certain things when he gets upset, or too excited. Teachers, other parents, even friends complain about all of the same issues that I see.

If there is any additional form of parenting strategy I am ready to try it all. I also know that no one is a perfect parent, so most likely, I did contribute to some of the issues. Anything is possible, but it is so hard to seek outside evaluation when DH and I have such differing opinions. I wonder whether psychologists who do the evaluation help with this and take time to address parent concerns (in our case, both mine and DH’s).
I am having hard time imagining DH being ok if we do an evaluation and come back with any type of diagnosis. I think he believes an evaluation would prove me wrong.

Look, given this day and age, you could no doubt scrounge an ADHD diagnosis for your kid. The question is whether that changes anything. Unless you want to medicate your kid (and it doesn’t sound like they have issues that medication will be some kind of silver bullet for) or need an IEP, the label doesn’t matter. Truly you DO need to internalize that many “specula needs” are a recently created phenomenon created by changing definitions and not a newly discovered biological disease. Your DH is not wrong to say that kid is just like him, it’s just a personality that has been medicalized.

This is not like denying that cancer exists and refusing chemo. It’s you (and to be fair, a lot of society) trying to put kids into diagnostic boxes in order to make sense of the fact that they don’t conform to our image of perfect kids, to take away our anxiety.

Spend less time trying to patrol how your DH sees the world (because he has a valid perspective) and more time finding common ground on how to support your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone goes through a process when their child gets a diagnosis. It can be hard and probably will be quite hard for your DH. That being said, even if he doesn't accept it, it will still help your kid.

The diagnosis does zero to help the kid. It serves to help the adults “complaining” about him by allowing him to be given a stigmatized label as being outside the norm - he makes us uncomfortable but now we know he is not one of us so it’s ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for all the replies.

DH is definitely in the category of “I am just like that and I turned out great” and his MD family and friends agree with him. His definition and solution to all parenting issues is punishment, because that’s what his parents did and he turned out “fine”.

I, on the other hand, have tried many things over the years (DS is in upper elementary). From parenting courses to every parenting strategy I could think off and including pretty strict consequences, but nothing takes away DS’ obvious absent mindedness, inability to control high emotions, social skill struggles and anxiety. DS is smart and kind, but makes social mistakes which are driving all his friends away. He can understand his mistakes after the fact, but not at the moment. DS, himself, says he doesn’t understand why he does certain things when he gets upset, or too excited. Teachers, other parents, even friends complain about all of the same issues that I see.

If there is any additional form of parenting strategy I am ready to try it all. I also know that no one is a perfect parent, so most likely, I did contribute to some of the issues. Anything is possible, but it is so hard to seek outside evaluation when DH and I have such differing opinions. I wonder whether psychologists who do the evaluation help with this and take time to address parent concerns (in our case, both mine and DH’s).
I am having hard time imagining DH being ok if we do an evaluation and come back with any type of diagnosis. I think he believes an evaluation would prove me wrong.

Look, given this day and age, you could no doubt scrounge an ADHD diagnosis for your kid. The question is whether that changes anything. Unless you want to medicate your kid (and it doesn’t sound like they have issues that medication will be some kind of silver bullet for) or need an IEP, the label doesn’t matter. Truly you DO need to internalize that many “specula needs” are a recently created phenomenon created by changing definitions and not a newly discovered biological disease. Your DH is not wrong to say that kid is just like him, it’s just a personality that has been medicalized.

This is not like denying that cancer exists and refusing chemo. It’s you (and to be fair, a lot of society) trying to put kids into diagnostic boxes in order to make sense of the fact that they don’t conform to our image of perfect kids, to take away our anxiety.

Spend less time trying to patrol how your DH sees the world (because he has a valid perspective) and more time finding common ground on how to support your kid.

DP
Many people find the diagnosis helpful. It isn't just a personality difference that doesn't conform to the image of "perfect kids". It is a difference in how people's brains work that doesn't conform to what society expects. Getting supports can help a ton, and a diagnosis helps identify which supports will be most helpful.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for the last three posts - OP here.

You hit the nail on the head. There is no doubt in my mind that there is over-diagnosis and over-medication happening. Especially when it comes to boys. Every other boy we know has been diagnosed with ADHD, and, even though I find it hard to believe, I do hear of parents doing this to just help with school.

I have tried additional supports and therapies, but DS is confused regarding “why”, therapists have asked in the past why are we not doing full evaluation and they, themselves, don’t like working in the dark without knowing what is actually going on with DS.

The problem is that DS’ issues are not subtle, and are escalating as he is getting older. Both DH and I are very upset with DS’ behavior (and, frankly, any sane parent would be), but DH’s answer to all the issues is to just increase the punishments. Half the time DS doesn’t even understand the purpose of the punishment and is starting to withdraw. There has been zero improvement with this approach.

If anyone else has been in this situation and managed to improve things just by using a different style of parenting, please do share. I am willing to try anything at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone goes through a process when their child gets a diagnosis. It can be hard and probably will be quite hard for your DH. That being said, even if he doesn't accept it, it will still help your kid.

The diagnosis does zero to help the kid. It serves to help the adults “complaining” about him by allowing him to be given a stigmatized label as being outside the norm - he makes us uncomfortable but now we know he is not one of us so it’s ok.

It's helped my kid a ton, and they are not a child that adults typically complain about.

Many diagnosed adults say the diagnosis has been very helpful to them, in some cases literally lifesaving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for all the replies.

DH is definitely in the category of “I am just like that and I turned out great” and his MD family and friends agree with him. His definition and solution to all parenting issues is punishment, because that’s what his parents did and he turned out “fine”.

I, on the other hand, have tried many things over the years (DS is in upper elementary). From parenting courses to every parenting strategy I could think off and including pretty strict consequences, but nothing takes away DS’ obvious absent mindedness, inability to control high emotions, social skill struggles and anxiety. DS is smart and kind, but makes social mistakes which are driving all his friends away. He can understand his mistakes after the fact, but not at the moment. DS, himself, says he doesn’t understand why he does certain things when he gets upset, or too excited. Teachers, other parents, even friends complain about all of the same issues that I see.

If there is any additional form of parenting strategy I am ready to try it all. I also know that no one is a perfect parent, so most likely, I did contribute to some of the issues. Anything is possible, but it is so hard to seek outside evaluation when DH and I have such differing opinions. I wonder whether psychologists who do the evaluation help with this and take time to address parent concerns (in our case, both mine and DH’s).
I am having hard time imagining DH being ok if we do an evaluation and come back with any type of diagnosis. I think he believes an evaluation would prove me wrong.

Look, given this day and age, you could no doubt scrounge an ADHD diagnosis for your kid. The question is whether that changes anything. Unless you want to medicate your kid (and it doesn’t sound like they have issues that medication will be some kind of silver bullet for) or need an IEP, the label doesn’t matter. Truly you DO need to internalize that many “specula needs” are a recently created phenomenon created by changing definitions and not a newly discovered biological disease. Your DH is not wrong to say that kid is just like him, it’s just a personality that has been medicalized.

This is not like denying that cancer exists and refusing chemo. It’s you (and to be fair, a lot of society) trying to put kids into diagnostic boxes in order to make sense of the fact that they don’t conform to our image of perfect kids, to take away our anxiety.

Spend less time trying to patrol how your DH sees the world (because he has a valid perspective) and more time finding common ground on how to support your kid.

I so deeply disagree with this advice which reflects a lot of stigma and discrimination about disability and brain-based illness.

"scrounge an ADHD diagnosis" - this is the way you have reframed getting a neuropsychological and makes it sound like neuropychs are just making whatever diagnosis a patient wants. This is not true. My DS's neuropsychological assessment was 2 full days of testing, with more time spent on intake questionnaire for parents, teacher and child, and more time meeting pre and post exam. Yes, my DC got an "ADHD diagnosis". He also got other diagnoses, recommendations, etc. There is tons of hard scientific research about ADHD - go read medical papers on PubMed.

Also, when you say that a parent visiting the doctor because of concerns about possible ADHD is "scrounging a diagnosis" (in the sense of getting a diagnosis that the parent thinks is correct), you are completing discounting any knowledge or input of the parent. I am a grown adult. I can read research papers and medical information and discern the difference between science-based information and pop medicine. I am the person who spends the most time around my kid and pays the most attention to what he is doing (more than dad, more than teachers, more than doctor). There is a tendency to discount the mother's input about their child, and, frankly, it's a completely sexist diminishment of what moms bring to the diagnostic table.

Unless you want to medicate your kid (and it doesn’t sound like they have issues that medication will be some kind of silver bullet for)

First of all, parents usually don't "want to medicate" their child for anything. They decide to medicate in some situations because the medication might be beneficial in some way and on balance the benefit seems greater than possible side effects.

Second, medication is almost always *not* a sliver bullet for anything, so why do you suggest that this is the appropriate bar that a medication has to meet in order to be useful?

Frankly, when a parent says they have been really diligent about doing everything from a parenting perspective that can be helpful and supportive, and that the other parent may have similar issues, both of those perspectives are red flags for a biological underpinning to the issues, and a biological underpinning suggests that medication should be explored. There are a ton of well-researched medications for ADHD in a number of different medication classes. It is commonly understood that medication can sometimes be beneficial enough to allow a person to access therapy and behavioral changes that they cannot otherwise employ un-medicated, meaning medication may allow someone to develop and learn compensation strategies enough that they may eventually decide to stop medication.

"Truly you DO need to internalize that many “specula needs” are a recently created phenomenon created by changing definitions and not a newly discovered biological disease."

I'm assuming you mean "special needs" here for "specula". Special needs are not a recent created phenomenon. People with special needs have existed forever. What is recent is legislation that calls these people "disabled" and recognizes that they have "special needs" that must legally be served by the government and certain private institutions. Before disability law, kids were regularly excluded from public school and all kinds of places in public and private life. The "changing definition" is not changing the definition of personality and redefining it as a medical disease, it is changing the definition of what kind of people have a right to access public life and whether they have a right to expect services to reasonably accommodate them to do so.

Personality and pathology are different. From your statement, I'm not sure you're aware that the "personality" argument has been used to deny certain types of people medical care. Alcoholism isn't a "personality" issue - it has biological underpinnings that can and should be addressed medically. Same goes for most mental illness diagnoses and brain based disorders (neurological, congenital or acquired). While some of these diseases may not be "new," there are many, many aspects of these diseases that ARE newly discovered and open up medical treatment options (which may not be silver bullets but are still beneficial on balance."

The more modern way of looking at this is "neurodivergence," and I agree when you say that Dad is right to say the kid is just like them, but that doesn't mean that the kid ought to go without diagnosis, treatment and support just because Dad didn't get any of those and "turned out fine". I can see the way that ADHD has rippled through my generation and my parent's generation. No one got help, and while they all turned out "fine" in terms of not becoming homeless, I can also see how getting medication, therapy and accommodation would have greatly benefitted their self-esteem, their educational and employment opportunities and success (or lack thereof), and their social relationships.

This is not like denying that cancer exists and refusing chemo. It’s you (and to be fair, a lot of society) trying to put kids into diagnostic boxes in order to make sense of the fact that they don’t conform to our image of perfect kids, to take away our anxiety.

As a current cancer patient, I can't tell you how deeply offended I am by this statement. ADHD is a biologically-based difference rooted in brain chemistry and development. We understand AHD imperfectly, just like we understand cancer imperfectly. Cancer often doesn't have clear "causes" like an infection treated with antibiotics, and may be rooted in genetics or epigenetics as ADHD may be. There are behavioral actions that increase cancer risk (diet, exercise, etc.) just as their are behavioral actions that may mimic or result in an ADHD diagnosis (sleep mostly). We have medications that can help, the side effects of which are far less than the negative side effects of cancer chemotherapy (and most people don't refuse cancer chemo unless they are much older or late stage.) ADHD can benefit from medical treatment, therapy, changes in behavior, etc. It can also kill you - car accidents, addiction, impulsive behavior, etc. are all increased with ADHD.

"the fact that they don’t conform to our image of perfect kids, to take away our anxiety. "

Honestly, I'm so tired of parents being shamed for seeking help. It's gaslighting. Parents aren't seeking assessment, diagnosis and treatment because they are anxious that their kids aren't perfect. Parents are seeking help because they can see that their kids aren't able to read, make friends and acquire basic academic skills because something is impeding their ability to do so and exploring whether they may need medical treatment, accommodations, special instruction and/or therapy would allow them to be able to read, make friends and get enough executive function to be an independent contributing member of society. I spent more than a dozen years fighting this kind of gaslighting with respect to my kids. Guess what? I wasn't an anxious perfectionist. One had ADHD which contributed to an inability to learn to read with typical instruction. When we put him into a reading program that had explicit sound/symbol instruction, he learned to read. He never would be about to graduate college with a job offer without the ADHD diagnosis, medication, accommodation an IEP and special instruction.

So, PP please stop saying it's just personality that has been medicalized, and stop discouraging parents from seeking assessment and exploring diagnoses and available forms of help.


And, OP, your instinct is exactly right when you worry that your DH's punitive approach is not helpful. You can punish the heck out of an ADHD kid and they likely will not change because their neurodivergent brain works on a different motivational system from the "neurotypical" brain.

Please get a full neuropsychological assessment. Look at the data, listen to the suggested diagnoses and treatment, therapy and accommodation options. Then make a decision about whether you think the diagnosis is valid and which, if any, treatment or support options should be pursued.

When my DC got his last neuropsychological before leaving from college, he read it and said, " wow, this really describes me well". He could see the connection between various assessment scores and his real life weaknesses and strengths, and that is valuable in and of itself.

[Anonymous]

ADHD is a biologically-based difference rooted in brain chemistry and development.

This is NOT TRUE. We spent a ton of time and money trying to prove it and we have no evidence at all for “brain chemistry” as a cause of ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since neither parent is presumably a specialist at diagnosing SN, we deferred to the experts. The real issues for parents arise when the experts are saying X but one or both parents believe that their own parenting 'intuition" supersedes, and conflicts, with the diagnosis of the clinician(s). If there is a conflict like this the tendency of parents is to "wait and see" which is the death knell for the hopes and chances of remediation. SN can be remediated when treated aggressively while the child is young. So therein lies the problem. Anecdotally, I nearly divorced DH. I had to say to him in a final showdown: I am on Planet Reality with the doctors. You are on Planet Denial by yourself. I'm not there. Your parents aren't there. The school isn't there. The clinicians aren't there. You are all by yourself on your planet. Either take a rocket and fly to our planet or I will call my lawyer to blow up your rocket for good. That did it. We have stayed married 13 years since then and he is supportive and on board.

SN cannot be “remediated” like that. By definition.

What definition? Obviously, "SN" includes a lot more than autism. For example, selective mutism can absolutely be completely remediated.

Ask yourself why parents with kids who will never be “remediated” might be irritated with you.

Why are you trying to speak for these parents? Speak for yourself. If a child's disability can be remediated that is a good thing. If you are so bitter that you don't want anyone else's child child to ever experience less impairment because your child is not in that situation, there is truly nothing I can do to make you feel better. My child exists and has a right to exist and is not an affront to you or your child.

It’s not a disability if it can be remediated. Hope this helps!

This isn't true at all. Some physical disabilities can be remediated with technology and therapy. The same is true for some intellectual disabilities. Even a child whose disability cannot be remediated at all can often be accommodated in ways that make the disability less of an obstacle to participating normally in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for all the replies.

DH is definitely in the category of “I am just like that and I turned out great” and his MD family and friends agree with him. His definition and solution to all parenting issues is punishment, because that’s what his parents did and he turned out “fine”.

I, on the other hand, have tried many things over the years (DS is in upper elementary). From parenting courses to every parenting strategy I could think off and including pretty strict consequences, but nothing takes away DS’ obvious absent mindedness, inability to control high emotions, social skill struggles and anxiety. DS is smart and kind, but makes social mistakes which are driving all his friends away. He can understand his mistakes after the fact, but not at the moment. DS, himself, says he doesn’t understand why he does certain things when he gets upset, or too excited. Teachers, other parents, even friends complain about all of the same issues that I see.

If there is any additional form of parenting strategy I am ready to try it all. I also know that no one is a perfect parent, so most likely, I did contribute to some of the issues. Anything is possible, but it is so hard to seek outside evaluation when DH and I have such differing opinions. I wonder whether psychologists who do the evaluation help with this and take time to address parent concerns (in our case, both mine and DH’s).
I am having hard time imagining DH being ok if we do an evaluation and come back with any type of diagnosis. I think he believes an evaluation would prove me wrong.

Look, given this day and age, you could no doubt scrounge an ADHD diagnosis for your kid. The question is whether that changes anything. Unless you want to medicate your kid (and it doesn’t sound like they have issues that medication will be some kind of silver bullet for) or need an IEP, the label doesn’t matter. Truly you DO need to internalize that many “specula needs” are a recently created phenomenon created by changing definitions and not a newly discovered biological disease. Your DH is not wrong to say that kid is just like him, it’s just a personality that has been medicalized.

This is not like denying that cancer exists and refusing chemo. It’s you (and to be fair, a lot of society) trying to put kids into diagnostic boxes in order to make sense of the fact that they don’t conform to our image of perfect kids, to take away our anxiety.

Spend less time trying to patrol how your DH sees the world (because he has a valid perspective) and more time finding common ground on how to support your kid.

I so deeply disagree with this advice which reflects a lot of stigma and discrimination about disability and brain-based illness.

"scrounge an ADHD diagnosis" - this is the way you have reframed getting a neuropsychological and makes it sound like neuropychs are just making whatever diagnosis a patient wants. This is not true. My DS's neuropsychological assessment was 2 full days of testing, with more time spent on intake questionnaire for parents, teacher and child, and more time meeting pre and post exam. Yes, my DC got an "ADHD diagnosis". He also got other diagnoses, recommendations, etc. There is tons of hard scientific research about ADHD - go read medical papers on PubMed.

Also, when you say that a parent visiting the doctor because of concerns about possible ADHD is "scrounging a diagnosis" (in the sense of getting a diagnosis that the parent thinks is correct), you are completing discounting any knowledge or input of the parent. I am a grown adult. I can read research papers and medical information and discern the difference between science-based information and pop medicine. I am the person who spends the most time around my kid and pays the most attention to what he is doing (more than dad, more than teachers, more than doctor). There is a tendency to discount the mother's input about their child, and, frankly, it's a completely sexist diminishment of what moms bring to the diagnostic table.

Unless you want to medicate your kid (and it doesn’t sound like they have issues that medication will be some kind of silver bullet for)

First of all, parents usually don't "want to medicate" their child for anything. They decide to medicate in some situations because the medication might be beneficial in some way and on balance the benefit seems greater than possible side effects.

Second, medication is almost always *not* a sliver bullet for anything, so why do you suggest that this is the appropriate bar that a medication has to meet in order to be useful?

Frankly, when a parent says they have been really diligent about doing everything from a parenting perspective that can be helpful and supportive, and that the other parent may have similar issues, both of those perspectives are red flags for a biological underpinning to the issues, and a biological underpinning suggests that medication should be explored. There are a ton of well-researched medications for ADHD in a number of different medication classes. It is commonly understood that medication can sometimes be beneficial enough to allow a person to access therapy and behavioral changes that they cannot otherwise employ un-medicated, meaning medication may allow someone to develop and learn compensation strategies enough that they may eventually decide to stop medication.

"Truly you DO need to internalize that many “specula needs” are a recently created phenomenon created by changing definitions and not a newly discovered biological disease."

I'm assuming you mean "special needs" here for "specula". Special needs are not a recent created phenomenon. People with special needs have existed forever. What is recent is legislation that calls these people "disabled" and recognizes that they have "special needs" that must legally be served by the government and certain private institutions. Before disability law, kids were regularly excluded from public school and all kinds of places in public and private life. The "changing definition" is not changing the definition of personality and redefining it as a medical disease, it is changing the definition of what kind of people have a right to access public life and whether they have a right to expect services to reasonably accommodate them to do so.

Personality and pathology are different. From your statement, I'm not sure you're aware that the "personality" argument has been used to deny certain types of people medical care. Alcoholism isn't a "personality" issue - it has biological underpinnings that can and should be addressed medically. Same goes for most mental illness diagnoses and brain based disorders (neurological, congenital or acquired). While some of these diseases may not be "new," there are many, many aspects of these diseases that ARE newly discovered and open up medical treatment options (which may not be silver bullets but are still beneficial on balance."

The more modern way of looking at this is "neurodivergence," and I agree when you say that Dad is right to say the kid is just like them, but that doesn't mean that the kid ought to go without diagnosis, treatment and support just because Dad didn't get any of those and "turned out fine". I can see the way that ADHD has rippled through my generation and my parent's generation. No one got help, and while they all turned out "fine" in terms of not becoming homeless, I can also see how getting medication, therapy and accommodation would have greatly benefitted their self-esteem, their educational and employment opportunities and success (or lack thereof), and their social relationships.

This is not like denying that cancer exists and refusing chemo. It’s you (and to be fair, a lot of society) trying to put kids into diagnostic boxes in order to make sense of the fact that they don’t conform to our image of perfect kids, to take away our anxiety.

As a current cancer patient, I can't tell you how deeply offended I am by this statement. ADHD is a biologically-based difference rooted in brain chemistry and development. We understand AHD imperfectly, just like we understand cancer imperfectly. Cancer often doesn't have clear "causes" like an infection treated with antibiotics, and may be rooted in genetics or epigenetics as ADHD may be. There are behavioral actions that increase cancer risk (diet, exercise, etc.) just as their are behavioral actions that may mimic or result in an ADHD diagnosis (sleep mostly). We have medications that can help, the side effects of which are far less than the negative side effects of cancer chemotherapy (and most people don't refuse cancer chemo unless they are much older or late stage.) ADHD can benefit from medical treatment, therapy, changes in behavior, etc. It can also kill you - car accidents, addiction, impulsive behavior, etc. are all increased with ADHD.

"the fact that they don’t conform to our image of perfect kids, to take away our anxiety. "

Honestly, I'm so tired of parents being shamed for seeking help. It's gaslighting. Parents aren't seeking assessment, diagnosis and treatment because they are anxious that their kids aren't perfect. Parents are seeking help because they can see that their kids aren't able to read, make friends and acquire basic academic skills because something is impeding their ability to do so and exploring whether they may need medical treatment, accommodations, special instruction and/or therapy would allow them to be able to read, make friends and get enough executive function to be an independent contributing member of society. I spent more than a dozen years fighting this kind of gaslighting with respect to my kids. Guess what? I wasn't an anxious perfectionist. One had ADHD which contributed to an inability to learn to read with typical instruction. When we put him into a reading program that had explicit sound/symbol instruction, he learned to read. He never would be about to graduate college with a job offer without the ADHD diagnosis, medication, accommodation an IEP and special instruction.

So, PP please stop saying it's just personality that has been medicalized, and stop discouraging parents from seeking assessment and exploring diagnoses and available forms of help.


And, OP, your instinct is exactly right when you worry that your DH's punitive approach is not helpful. You can punish the heck out of an ADHD kid and they likely will not change because their neurodivergent brain works on a different motivational system from the "neurotypical" brain.

Please get a full neuropsychological assessment. Look at the data, listen to the suggested diagnoses and treatment, therapy and accommodation options. Then make a decision about whether you think the diagnosis is valid and which, if any, treatment or support options should be pursued.

When my DC got his last neuropsychological before leaving from college, he read it and said, " wow, this really describes me well". He could see the connection between various assessment scores and his real life weaknesses and strengths, and that is valuable in and of itself.

Thank you so much for taking your time to post this. I deeply appreciate it.

I also wish you a full recovery. Stay strong.

~ OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

ADHD is a biologically-based difference rooted in brain chemistry and development.

This is NOT TRUE. We spent a ton of time and money trying to prove it and we have no evidence at all for “brain chemistry” as a cause of ADHD.

Don’t waste your breath. they’ll never get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ADHD is a biologically-based difference rooted in brain chemistry and development.

This is NOT TRUE. We spent a ton of time and money trying to prove it and we have no evidence at all for “brain chemistry” as a cause of ADHD.

Don’t waste your breath. they’ll never get it.

You're right, we won't buy into this misinformation because researchers have found differences ADHD brains. All it takes to find is a simple Google search The brain is extremely complex and we don't have a full, conclusive understanding of these differences, but it is false to say that there is "no evidence at all" for "brain chemistry as a cause of ADHD".