SN “Believers” vs SN “Non-Believers” - how to do what is in the best interest of a child

[Anonymous]

This is a spin-off of an important question asked on another current thread

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1297936.page

I can see the arguments for both being over-vigilant of SN issues (often attributed to moms, although not always the case), and for being completely ignorant (often attributed to dads, although, again, not always the case).

How do you reconcile and do what is best for the child? I am a mom in this scenario and I fear that SN issues that I think I see are discipline/parenting issues my DH claims to be a problem.

If you were in a similar situation, and with knowing that misdiagnosis is always possible, how did you reconcile the two opposing opinions? Did therapist doing the neuropsychological evaluation help you with this?

[Anonymous]

I don’t really understand your question.
Has the school brought any concerns to you? How old is the child and what are the issues?
It’s possible parenting and SN are at play. Doesnt have to be one or the other.

[Anonymous]

So you see certain characteristics in your child that you think are signs of a disability but DH thinks is because you are disciplining wrong/failing to discipline?

I would get a full neuropsych and be honest with how discipline is handled (they ask). DH is more likely to listen to experts than you, unfortunately?

[Anonymous]

There are two separate issues here:
- Does your child have a neurodevelopmental conditions that drives or exacerbates their behavior issues?
- If they do, will stronger discipline help them?

My kid with ASD1 is extremely sensitive and also stubborn. She is also anxious and likes to please. That combination makes traditional discipline tricky for a lot of reasons. For her, giving positive reinforcement for good behavior helps a lot. But when she doesn't want to do something (like brush her teeth or leave the house) it gets tough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you reconcile and do what is best for the child? I am a mom in this scenario and I fear that SN issues that I think I see are discipline/parenting issues my DH claims to be a problem.

OP this is a false dichotomy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a spin-off of an important question asked on another current thread

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1297936.page

I can see the arguments for both being over-vigilant of SN issues (often attributed to moms, although not always the case), and for being completely ignorant (often attributed to dads, although, again, not always the case).

How do you reconcile and do what is best for the child? I am a mom in this scenario and I fear that SN issues that I think I see are discipline/parenting issues my DH claims to be a problem.

If you were in a similar situation, and with knowing that misdiagnosis is always possible, how did you reconcile the two opposing opinions? Did therapist doing the neuropsychological evaluation help you with this?

One of my sons went to a weekly social skills group run by a LCSW. I saw her two or three times a year to go over a few things. I had a list for each of my children and for me. She helped me prioritize things. Some things she said, don’t worry it will come. Some things were - this is important to tackle first or second. Some were that is just the way he is and you are it going to change it. She was a great sounding board.

[Anonymous]

Well, sometimes it's SN and also parenting could improve.

In grades PK4-4th I thought my DD had pretty subtle autism. Her PK4 teacher flagged it (and she was the mother of a girl with autism), a few elopements, significant sensory *under*sensitivity, hyperlexia, special interests, generally weak social skills and social anxiety/avoidance. No major behavior problem aside from eloping like 2-3 times total in her preschool/K years. In 5th grade she improved a lot socially and has less special interests, so now in 8th I wouldn't say she meets any ASD criteria, though she's still sensory under-sensitive.

My DH never really bought into the autism possibility, and he thinks it was never a thing. I think the massive effort I put into developing her social skills was effective. So of course it irritates me immensely that he reaps the benefit of my efforts and that my successful intervention is, to him, a reason to dismiss the entire problem and tell me that I was wrong all along. It sucks. But DD is okay now so I've had to let it go.

[Anonymous]

Since neither parent is presumably a specialist at diagnosing SN, we deferred to the experts. The real issues for parents arise when the experts are saying X but one or both parents believe that their own parenting 'intuition" supersedes, and conflicts, with the diagnosis of the clinician(s). If there is a conflict like this the tendency of parents is to "wait and see" which is the death knell for the hopes and chances of remediation. SN can be remediated when treated aggressively while the child is young. So therein lies the problem. Anecdotally, I nearly divorced DH. I had to say to him in a final showdown: I am on Planet Reality with the doctors. You are on Planet Denial by yourself. I'm not there. Your parents aren't there. The school isn't there. The clinicians aren't there. You are all by yourself on your planet. Either take a rocket and fly to our planet or I will call my lawyer to blow up your rocket for good. That did it. We have stayed married 13 years since then and he is supportive and on board.

[Anonymous]

I think it depends on how knowledgeable the parents are. If they're down the internet woo rabbit hole in either direction, if they think autism is a hoax and what's needed is onions in the socks, or if they're just a typical DH who doesn't want to admit there's a problem so he refuses to do any reading and refuses to see his child around other children because the disparity makes him uncomfortable, then their opinion is of no value.

If both parents do some research and have at least moderately informed opinions, then I think you have to try to meet in the middle. It's extra hard when clinicians disagree with each other, but that happens too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, sometimes it's SN and also parenting could improve.

In grades PK4-4th I thought my DD had pretty subtle autism. Her PK4 teacher flagged it (and she was the mother of a girl with autism), a few elopements, significant sensory *under*sensitivity, hyperlexia, special interests, generally weak social skills and social anxiety/avoidance. No major behavior problem aside from eloping like 2-3 times total in her preschool/K years. In 5th grade she improved a lot socially and has less special interests, so now in 8th I wouldn't say she meets any ASD criteria, though she's still sensory under-sensitive.

My DH never really bought into the autism possibility, and he thinks it was never a thing. I think the massive effort I put into developing her social skills was effective. So of course it irritates me immensely that he reaps the benefit of my efforts and that my successful intervention is, to him, a reason to dismiss the entire problem and tell me that I was wrong all along. It sucks. But DD is okay now so I've had to let it go.

You can’t actually social skills your way out of autism.

[Anonymous]

OP I understand this dichotomy but I think both in that other thread and in your question, the implication is that there are real, documented problems (with behavior, academics, or mental health) that teachers or other professionals have flagged as needing to be addressed. In that case, I think the answer is ALWAYS to get the neuropsych and explore what is *causing* the problem. Yes there may be parenting/disciplinary issues at play, but often these are intertwined with special needs because sometimes standard parenting and disciplinary approaches don't work or even directly backfire due to how a kid's brain is wired or a disability that makes it impossible for them to meet expectations without some kind of support.

The resistant parent who doesn't want to pursue a diagnosis because "the problem is he just doesn't listen" is a real phenomenon, but the response is always: yes, you are right, he doesn't listen -- let's find out why so we can address it. Believing your struggling child is just not trying enough or is insufficiently motivated to do what is asked despite exhausted, frustrated parents and teachers, is just foolish. You need to get to the root of the problem.

Where I think your question actually applies is in situations where kids demonstrate some possible signs of SNs but there are no flagged issues. These are the "quirky" kids who need to be parented differently but do fine at school. The top student who is also a severely picky eater (but not malnourished) who doesn't seem to make friends but also doesn't seem to mind. These kids are trickier because it's like, when do you just accept the quirkiness as totally acceptable personality traits, and when do you intervene to try and spare them social and professional struggles as adults? It's hard and there aren't perfect answers here.

But the kid coming home with behavioral issues or struggling to keep up in class? Get them help! That's just the obvious answer. Get them tested, do whatever it takes, there is no benefit to just trying to go it alone with a kid who is struggling in this way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, sometimes it's SN and also parenting could improve.

In grades PK4-4th I thought my DD had pretty subtle autism. Her PK4 teacher flagged it (and she was the mother of a girl with autism), a few elopements, significant sensory *under*sensitivity, hyperlexia, special interests, generally weak social skills and social anxiety/avoidance. No major behavior problem aside from eloping like 2-3 times total in her preschool/K years. In 5th grade she improved a lot socially and has less special interests, so now in 8th I wouldn't say she meets any ASD criteria, though she's still sensory under-sensitive.

My DH never really bought into the autism possibility, and he thinks it was never a thing. I think the massive effort I put into developing her social skills was effective. So of course it irritates me immensely that he reaps the benefit of my efforts and that my successful intervention is, to him, a reason to dismiss the entire problem and tell me that I was wrong all along. It sucks. But DD is okay now so I've had to let it go.

You can’t actually social skills your way out of autism.

No, but everyone can improve their social skills and become a more socially skilled person with autism. I would describe DD right now as a person with good enough social skills, and low enough on other ASD criteria, that an ASD diagnosis wouldn't be worth the effort to get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, sometimes it's SN and also parenting could improve.

In grades PK4-4th I thought my DD had pretty subtle autism. Her PK4 teacher flagged it (and she was the mother of a girl with autism), a few elopements, significant sensory *under*sensitivity, hyperlexia, special interests, generally weak social skills and social anxiety/avoidance. No major behavior problem aside from eloping like 2-3 times total in her preschool/K years. In 5th grade she improved a lot socially and has less special interests, so now in 8th I wouldn't say she meets any ASD criteria, though she's still sensory under-sensitive.

My DH never really bought into the autism possibility, and he thinks it was never a thing. I think the massive effort I put into developing her social skills was effective. So of course it irritates me immensely that he reaps the benefit of my efforts and that my successful intervention is, to him, a reason to dismiss the entire problem and tell me that I was wrong all along. It sucks. But DD is okay now so I've had to let it go.

You can’t actually social skills your way out of autism.

DP here. I think you are right but I also want to acknowledge that PP was/is likely identifying a real neurodivergence in her kid. Due to the shift towards the ASD blanket diagnosis, her kid might actually get an ASD diagnosis but what's going on is distinct from a kid with classical autism. This is why we need a more nuanced diagnostic system for neurodivergence, because while I get why you might roll your eyes at this description and say "that's not autism," I also see where this parent is coming from in seeing that her kid needed extra supports and my interact with the world differently. I have a kid like this and it's kind of maddening that there is no way to describe them. My kid would 100% get an Aspergers diagnosis if that was still a thing, we've been told that by two specialists now. It's not, so it's "ASD" but we don't actually refer to her as having autism because we have multiple autistic kids in our family an their issues and challenges are so distinct from what our DD deals with, it's just clearly not the same (though very likely caused by the same genetic predispositions, so that's interesting too).

Anyway, please try to be understanding. It's not the PPs fault that there is no diagnostic term for her DD's challenges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, sometimes it's SN and also parenting could improve.

In grades PK4-4th I thought my DD had pretty subtle autism. Her PK4 teacher flagged it (and she was the mother of a girl with autism), a few elopements, significant sensory *under*sensitivity, hyperlexia, special interests, generally weak social skills and social anxiety/avoidance. No major behavior problem aside from eloping like 2-3 times total in her preschool/K years. In 5th grade she improved a lot socially and has less special interests, so now in 8th I wouldn't say she meets any ASD criteria, though she's still sensory under-sensitive.

My DH never really bought into the autism possibility, and he thinks it was never a thing. I think the massive effort I put into developing her social skills was effective. So of course it irritates me immensely that he reaps the benefit of my efforts and that my successful intervention is, to him, a reason to dismiss the entire problem and tell me that I was wrong all along. It sucks. But DD is okay now so I've had to let it go.

You can’t actually social skills your way out of autism.

No, but everyone can improve their social skills and become a more socially skilled person with autism. I would describe DD right now as a person with good enough social skills, and low enough on other ASD criteria, that an ASD diagnosis wouldn't be worth the effort to get.

Thank you for this. I have a son who was very speech delayed and hyperlexic. By first grade he seemed completely normal but now in 5th has fallen way behind in social skills and I'm starting him in a weekly class. He has great grades and is well behaved so my husband doesn't see what the problem is. He thinks his social immaturity is from me "spoiling" him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, sometimes it's SN and also parenting could improve.

In grades PK4-4th I thought my DD had pretty subtle autism. Her PK4 teacher flagged it (and she was the mother of a girl with autism), a few elopements, significant sensory *under*sensitivity, hyperlexia, special interests, generally weak social skills and social anxiety/avoidance. No major behavior problem aside from eloping like 2-3 times total in her preschool/K years. In 5th grade she improved a lot socially and has less special interests, so now in 8th I wouldn't say she meets any ASD criteria, though she's still sensory under-sensitive.

My DH never really bought into the autism possibility, and he thinks it was never a thing. I think the massive effort I put into developing her social skills was effective. So of course it irritates me immensely that he reaps the benefit of my efforts and that my successful intervention is, to him, a reason to dismiss the entire problem and tell me that I was wrong all along. It sucks. But DD is okay now so I've had to let it go.

You can’t actually social skills your way out of autism.

DP here. I think you are right but I also want to acknowledge that PP was/is likely identifying a real neurodivergence in her kid. Due to the shift towards the ASD blanket diagnosis, her kid might actually get an ASD diagnosis but what's going on is distinct from a kid with classical autism. This is why we need a more nuanced diagnostic system for neurodivergence, because while I get why you might roll your eyes at this description and say "that's not autism," I also see where this parent is coming from in seeing that her kid needed extra supports and my interact with the world differently. I have a kid like this and it's kind of maddening that there is no way to describe them. My kid would 100% get an Aspergers diagnosis if that was still a thing, we've been told that by two specialists now. It's not, so it's "ASD" but we don't actually refer to her as having autism because we have multiple autistic kids in our family an their issues and challenges are so distinct from what our DD deals with, it's just clearly not the same (though very likely caused by the same genetic predispositions, so that's interesting too).

Anyway, please try to be understanding. It's not the PPs fault that there is no diagnostic term for her DD's challenges.

Thank you! I'm not moving forward on the ASD thing because DD is doing fine but yes, it's frustrating and it's annoying how DH is about denying that my efforts made a difference. He's not knowledgeable about child development, like he would never know the term "elope" or recognize that poor sensory integration can include undersensitivity as well as oversensitivity. And of course it's possible to have below average social skills that aren't quite bad enough to be ASD, and sensory stuff isn't part of the DSM definition anyway, and what even counts as repetitive behavior-- everyone has their interests and their little routines. So there's sort of a gray area where the mildest cases are. And it doesn't seem worth the time and money to pursue it, at least for now.