SN “Believers” vs SN “Non-Believers” - how to do what is in the best interest of a child

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

ADHD is a biologically-based difference rooted in brain chemistry and development.

This is NOT TRUE. We spent a ton of time and money trying to prove it and we have no evidence at all for “brain chemistry” as a cause of ADHD.

In fact, there is quite a lot of evidence for brain chemistry as one cause (among many causes) of attention disorder. Here is just one 2025 paper that sums up the multi-factoral causes:

“ Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is one of the most prevalent neurodevelopmental conditions worldwide, with an onset typically in childhood and frequent persistence into adulthood. Despite its high prevalence, the precise mechanisms underpinning ADHD remain elusive, largely due to its heterogeneity and complex interplay between neurobiological, genetic, and environmental factors. Recent publications have begun to shed light on these processes, offering critical insights into the neurochemical substrates, brain network dysfunctions, and psychosocial modulators that converge in ADHD and related psychiatric conditions.

A pivotal contribution comes from the study of glutamate imbalance in key structures of the default mode network (DMN) in adults with ADHD [1]. This work demonstrates that excitatory neurotransmission dysregulation in DMN hubs may underlie the attentional lapses and cognitive dyscontrol characteristic of ADHD. Such neurochemical evidence aligns with network-based findings showing altered intrinsic functional connectivity correlated with impaired self-regulation in children and adolescents with ADHD [2]. Together, these studies provide compelling support for a neurocircuitry model in which neurotransmitter imbalances directly impair large-scale connectivity, thereby affecting executive functions……

Taken together, this growing body of evidence converges on a multi-level model of ADHD and related conditions:

Neurochemical dysregulation (e.g., glutamate imbalance) affects fundamental brain networks.

Structural and functional abnormalities (e.g., DMN connectivity, hemispheric asymmetry, gray matter volume) shape clinical heterogeneity.

Genetic and molecular mechanisms (e.g., oxytocin–vasopressin pathways, BDNF-FKBP5 interactions) define susceptibility and resilience.

Psychosocial adversity and trauma act as modulators, with biological embedding through epigenetics and immune pathways.

Adorjan, K. Neurobiological and psychosocial mechanisms underlying ADHD and related disorders. Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci (2025). https://doi.org/10.1007/s00406-025-02122-9

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00406-025-02122-9#citeas

This interplay of genes, body chemistry and environmental factors is similar to many other major physical diseases like my own cancer, the cause of which is unknown. The fact that the cause of my cancer is not definitively identified doesn’t negate the wealth of research findings outlining the many factors involved in causation.

[Anonymous]

Just as a counterpoint to the argument that they hand out ADHD diagnoses like candy, I was convinced third dc (5 yo) had inattentive adhd - neuropsych said nope. I had gone in armed with what I thought was abundant evidence but alas. Kindergarten was so rough, his behavior at home was terrible. Then - he got through it and a year later I wouldn’t guess that dx for him anymore. He does have mild cerebral palsy which accounts for certain challenges but no neurodiversity or other disability. These providers do know what they are doing, at least more so than Dr. Google.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone goes through a process when their child gets a diagnosis. It can be hard and probably will be quite hard for your DH. That being said, even if he doesn't accept it, it will still help your kid.

Get the evaluation. Your DH may listen to an expert. If not, at least you will know what your kid has.

[Anonymous]

also I'd dispute that your DH turned out "fine." A "fine" parent would not be resisting helping their own child and living in a world of denial as to their own kid's needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just as a counterpoint to the argument that they hand out ADHD diagnoses like candy, I was convinced third dc (5 yo) had inattentive adhd - neuropsych said nope. I had gone in armed with what I thought was abundant evidence but alas. Kindergarten was so rough, his behavior at home was terrible. Then - he got through it and a year later I wouldn’t guess that dx for him anymore. He does have mild cerebral palsy which accounts for certain challenges but no neurodiversity or other disability. These providers do know what they are doing, at least more so than Dr. Google.

+1. I thought DC was dyslexic. I got an ADHD diagnosis. Accompanying assessment data made the incorrectness of my diagnosis obvious as well as the correctness of the ADHD diagnosis.

I also though now exDH was ADHD. He was an adult, so he never had a neuropsychological diagnosis. However, psychiatrist diagnosed him as bipolar II, which turned out to be a very accurate diagnosis.

There are good psychologists and psychiatrists, just like there are good doctors and bad ones. Personally, in my own lifetime, I have been misdiagnosed twice with respect to very serious diagnoses. Misdiagnosis happens. It is, perhaps, even harder to accurately diagnose brain disorders because we as a culture perceive lots of behaviors to be "choices" when they are partially driven by underlying biology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just as a counterpoint to the argument that they hand out ADHD diagnoses like candy, I was convinced third dc (5 yo) had inattentive adhd - neuropsych said nope. I had gone in armed with what I thought was abundant evidence but alas. Kindergarten was so rough, his behavior at home was terrible. Then - he got through it and a year later I wouldn’t guess that dx for him anymore. He does have mild cerebral palsy which accounts for certain challenges but no neurodiversity or other disability. These providers do know what they are doing, at least more so than Dr. Google.

+1. I thought DC was dyslexic. I got an ADHD diagnosis. Accompanying assessment data made the incorrectness of my diagnosis obvious as well as the correctness of the ADHD diagnosis.

I also though now exDH was ADHD. He was an adult, so he never had a neuropsychological diagnosis. However, psychiatrist diagnosed him as bipolar II, which turned out to be a very accurate diagnosis.

There are good psychologists and psychiatrists, just like there are good doctors and bad ones. Personally, in my own lifetime, I have been misdiagnosed twice with respect to very serious diagnoses. Misdiagnosis happens. It is, perhaps, even harder to accurately diagnose brain disorders because we as a culture perceive lots of behaviors to be "choices" when they are partially driven by underlying biology.

Bipolar II is way overdiagnosed. Most psychiatrists believe personality disorders or just plain personalities are often being diagnosed as ADHD and bipolar II these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:also I'd dispute that your DH turned out "fine." A "fine" parent would not be resisting helping their own child and living in a world of denial as to their own kid's needs.

Being a jerk (or just having a different take) is not actually a disability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ADHD is a biologically-based difference rooted in brain chemistry and development.

This is NOT TRUE. We spent a ton of time and money trying to prove it and we have no evidence at all for “brain chemistry” as a cause of ADHD.

In fact, there is quite a lot of evidence for brain chemistry as one cause (among many causes) of attention disorder. Here is just one 2025 paper that sums up the multi-factoral causes:

“ Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is one of the most prevalent neurodevelopmental conditions worldwide, with an onset typically in childhood and frequent persistence into adulthood. Despite its high prevalence, the precise mechanisms underpinning ADHD remain elusive, largely due to its heterogeneity and complex interplay between neurobiological, genetic, and environmental factors. Recent publications have begun to shed light on these processes, offering critical insights into the neurochemical substrates, brain network dysfunctions, and psychosocial modulators that converge in ADHD and related psychiatric conditions.

A pivotal contribution comes from the study of glutamate imbalance in key structures of the default mode network (DMN) in adults with ADHD [1]. This work demonstrates that excitatory neurotransmission dysregulation in DMN hubs may underlie the attentional lapses and cognitive dyscontrol characteristic of ADHD. Such neurochemical evidence aligns with network-based findings showing altered intrinsic functional connectivity correlated with impaired self-regulation in children and adolescents with ADHD [2]. Together, these studies provide compelling support for a neurocircuitry model in which neurotransmitter imbalances directly impair large-scale connectivity, thereby affecting executive functions……

Taken together, this growing body of evidence converges on a multi-level model of ADHD and related conditions:

Neurochemical dysregulation (e.g., glutamate imbalance) affects fundamental brain networks.

Structural and functional abnormalities (e.g., DMN connectivity, hemispheric asymmetry, gray matter volume) shape clinical heterogeneity.

Genetic and molecular mechanisms (e.g., oxytocin–vasopressin pathways, BDNF-FKBP5 interactions) define susceptibility and resilience.

Psychosocial adversity and trauma act as modulators, with biological embedding through epigenetics and immune pathways.

Adorjan, K. Neurobiological and psychosocial mechanisms underlying ADHD and related disorders. Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci (2025). https://doi.org/10.1007/s00406-025-02122-9

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00406-025-02122-9#citeas

This interplay of genes, body chemistry and environmental factors is similar to many other major physical diseases like my own cancer, the cause of which is unknown. The fact that the cause of my cancer is not definitively identified doesn’t negate the wealth of research findings outlining the many factors involved in causation.

Ok. That doesn’t make it any more believable that 25% of boys have ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just as a counterpoint to the argument that they hand out ADHD diagnoses like candy, I was convinced third dc (5 yo) had inattentive adhd - neuropsych said nope. I had gone in armed with what I thought was abundant evidence but alas. Kindergarten was so rough, his behavior at home was terrible. Then - he got through it and a year later I wouldn’t guess that dx for him anymore. He does have mild cerebral palsy which accounts for certain challenges but no neurodiversity or other disability. These providers do know what they are doing, at least more so than Dr. Google.

+1. I thought DC was dyslexic. I got an ADHD diagnosis. Accompanying assessment data made the incorrectness of my diagnosis obvious as well as the correctness of the ADHD diagnosis.

I also though now exDH was ADHD. He was an adult, so he never had a neuropsychological diagnosis. However, psychiatrist diagnosed him as bipolar II, which turned out to be a very accurate diagnosis.

There are good psychologists and psychiatrists, just like there are good doctors and bad ones. Personally, in my own lifetime, I have been misdiagnosed twice with respect to very serious diagnoses. Misdiagnosis happens. It is, perhaps, even harder to accurately diagnose brain disorders because we as a culture perceive lots of behaviors to be "choices" when they are partially driven by underlying biology.

Bipolar II is way overdiagnosed. Most psychiatrists believe personality disorders or just plain personalities are often being diagnosed as ADHD and bipolar II these days.

Can you provide a cite to a reputable scientific journal paper or website for, “most doctors believe personality disorders or personalities are being diagnosed as ADHD and bipolar 2”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ADHD is a biologically-based difference rooted in brain chemistry and development.

This is NOT TRUE. We spent a ton of time and money trying to prove it and we have no evidence at all for “brain chemistry” as a cause of ADHD.

In fact, there is quite a lot of evidence for brain chemistry as one cause (among many causes) of attention disorder. Here is just one 2025 paper that sums up the multi-factoral causes:

“ Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is one of the most prevalent neurodevelopmental conditions worldwide, with an onset typically in childhood and frequent persistence into adulthood. Despite its high prevalence, the precise mechanisms underpinning ADHD remain elusive, largely due to its heterogeneity and complex interplay between neurobiological, genetic, and environmental factors. Recent publications have begun to shed light on these processes, offering critical insights into the neurochemical substrates, brain network dysfunctions, and psychosocial modulators that converge in ADHD and related psychiatric conditions.

A pivotal contribution comes from the study of glutamate imbalance in key structures of the default mode network (DMN) in adults with ADHD [1]. This work demonstrates that excitatory neurotransmission dysregulation in DMN hubs may underlie the attentional lapses and cognitive dyscontrol characteristic of ADHD. Such neurochemical evidence aligns with network-based findings showing altered intrinsic functional connectivity correlated with impaired self-regulation in children and adolescents with ADHD [2]. Together, these studies provide compelling support for a neurocircuitry model in which neurotransmitter imbalances directly impair large-scale connectivity, thereby affecting executive functions……

Taken together, this growing body of evidence converges on a multi-level model of ADHD and related conditions:

Neurochemical dysregulation (e.g., glutamate imbalance) affects fundamental brain networks.

Structural and functional abnormalities (e.g., DMN connectivity, hemispheric asymmetry, gray matter volume) shape clinical heterogeneity.

Genetic and molecular mechanisms (e.g., oxytocin–vasopressin pathways, BDNF-FKBP5 interactions) define susceptibility and resilience.

Psychosocial adversity and trauma act as modulators, with biological embedding through epigenetics and immune pathways.

Adorjan, K. Neurobiological and psychosocial mechanisms underlying ADHD and related disorders. Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci (2025). https://doi.org/10.1007/s00406-025-02122-9

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00406-025-02122-9#citeas

This interplay of genes, body chemistry and environmental factors is similar to many other major physical diseases like my own cancer, the cause of which is unknown. The fact that the cause of my cancer is not definitively identified doesn’t negate the wealth of research findings outlining the many factors involved in causation.

Ok. That doesn’t make it any more believable that 25% of boys have ADHD.

Are you referring to this “pop psychology” stat - 25% of adults think they have may have undiagnosed ADHD.

https://neurosciencenews.com/adult-adhd-psychology-27860/.

CDC data states that in 2022 11.4% of children have ever been diagnosed with ADHD. See more here. https://www.cdc.gov/adhd/data/index.html

Also, grow up and learn to do some real reading and understanding of health issues instead of just smearing people with misconstrued, misapplied stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, sometimes it's SN and also parenting could improve.

In grades PK4-4th I thought my DD had pretty subtle autism. Her PK4 teacher flagged it (and she was the mother of a girl with autism), a few elopements, significant sensory *under*sensitivity, hyperlexia, special interests, generally weak social skills and social anxiety/avoidance. No major behavior problem aside from eloping like 2-3 times total in her preschool/K years. In 5th grade she improved a lot socially and has less special interests, so now in 8th I wouldn't say she meets any ASD criteria, though she's still sensory under-sensitive.

My DH never really bought into the autism possibility, and he thinks it was never a thing. I think the massive effort I put into developing her social skills was effective. So of course it irritates me immensely that he reaps the benefit of my efforts and that my successful intervention is, to him, a reason to dismiss the entire problem and tell me that I was wrong all along. It sucks. But DD is okay now so I've had to let it go.

Traditionally autism was a lifetime disabling condition. Now that diagnosis criteria have gotten so loose it’s often closer to a skills deficit than a lifetime disability. You deserve praise for addressing the skills deficit but apparently your husband was right that it wasn’t a lifetime disability

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, sometimes it's SN and also parenting could improve.

In grades PK4-4th I thought my DD had pretty subtle autism. Her PK4 teacher flagged it (and she was the mother of a girl with autism), a few elopements, significant sensory *under*sensitivity, hyperlexia, special interests, generally weak social skills and social anxiety/avoidance. No major behavior problem aside from eloping like 2-3 times total in her preschool/K years. In 5th grade she improved a lot socially and has less special interests, so now in 8th I wouldn't say she meets any ASD criteria, though she's still sensory under-sensitive.

My DH never really bought into the autism possibility, and he thinks it was never a thing. I think the massive effort I put into developing her social skills was effective. So of course it irritates me immensely that he reaps the benefit of my efforts and that my successful intervention is, to him, a reason to dismiss the entire problem and tell me that I was wrong all along. It sucks. But DD is okay now so I've had to let it go.

Traditionally autism was a lifetime disabling condition. Now that diagnosis criteria have gotten so loose it’s often closer to a skills deficit than a lifetime disability. You deserve praise for addressing the skills deficit but apparently your husband was right that it wasn’t a lifetime disability

This is OP. I have a huge amount of respect for the PP you responded to. What she achieved with her daughter is extraordinary and is a dream for every parent facing this type of challenge.

However, from the tone of your message, I do not think that you even remotely understand the amount of effort and sacrifice that PP probably had to do on her own in order to raise a functioning child. The outcome does not support your or her DH’s claim that everything was fine to begin with.

I would know because that is exactly what I have been doing for so many years. Reading books, taking courses, everything and anything just to help my DS. It has all probably helped some, but, unfortunately, DS continues to have the same core issues that he had 5 years ago. My career and health are next to destroyed and I am not being a parent and spouse I wish to be while just trying to keep my DS afloat with all the issues that come up at school and home. And then DH says “well, look at all the success - he wouldn’t be able to achieve all that if there really was an issue”. I have another DC and parenting has been a walk in the park with that child.

The issue that I am going to have with an evaluation is going to be with DH going along with any findings as well as explaining it to DS if DH continues to insist there is no problem. But, I suppose I could at least know what type of additional support might be beneficial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, sometimes it's SN and also parenting could improve.

In grades PK4-4th I thought my DD had pretty subtle autism. Her PK4 teacher flagged it (and she was the mother of a girl with autism), a few elopements, significant sensory *under*sensitivity, hyperlexia, special interests, generally weak social skills and social anxiety/avoidance. No major behavior problem aside from eloping like 2-3 times total in her preschool/K years. In 5th grade she improved a lot socially and has less special interests, so now in 8th I wouldn't say she meets any ASD criteria, though she's still sensory under-sensitive.

My DH never really bought into the autism possibility, and he thinks it was never a thing. I think the massive effort I put into developing her social skills was effective. So of course it irritates me immensely that he reaps the benefit of my efforts and that my successful intervention is, to him, a reason to dismiss the entire problem and tell me that I was wrong all along. It sucks. But DD is okay now so I've had to let it go.

Traditionally autism was a lifetime disabling condition. Now that diagnosis criteria have gotten so loose it’s often closer to a skills deficit than a lifetime disability. You deserve praise for addressing the skills deficit but apparently your husband was right that it wasn’t a lifetime disability

This is OP. I have a huge amount of respect for the PP you responded to. What she achieved with her daughter is extraordinary and is a dream for every parent facing this type of challenge.

However, from the tone of your message, I do not think that you even remotely understand the amount of effort and sacrifice that PP probably had to do on her own in order to raise a functioning child. The outcome does not support your or her DH’s claim that everything was fine to begin with.

I would know because that is exactly what I have been doing for so many years. Reading books, taking courses, everything and anything just to help my DS. It has all probably helped some, but, unfortunately, DS continues to have the same core issues that he had 5 years ago. My career and health are next to destroyed and I am not being a parent and spouse I wish to be while just trying to keep my DS afloat with all the issues that come up at school and home. And then DH says “well, look at all the success - he wouldn’t be able to achieve all that if there really was an issue”. I have another DC and parenting has been a walk in the park with that child.

The issue that I am going to have with an evaluation is going to be with DH going along with any findings as well as explaining it to DS if DH continues to insist there is no problem. But, I suppose I could at least know what type of additional support might be beneficial.

DP
+1000 Amen OP

My story is a little different than yours but I can relate to so much of this. You are an amazing parent, but it shouldn't have to be so hard for you. I hope you are able to get the evaluation and that your DH wakes up and steps up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, sometimes it's SN and also parenting could improve.

In grades PK4-4th I thought my DD had pretty subtle autism. Her PK4 teacher flagged it (and she was the mother of a girl with autism), a few elopements, significant sensory *under*sensitivity, hyperlexia, special interests, generally weak social skills and social anxiety/avoidance. No major behavior problem aside from eloping like 2-3 times total in her preschool/K years. In 5th grade she improved a lot socially and has less special interests, so now in 8th I wouldn't say she meets any ASD criteria, though she's still sensory under-sensitive.

My DH never really bought into the autism possibility, and he thinks it was never a thing. I think the massive effort I put into developing her social skills was effective. So of course it irritates me immensely that he reaps the benefit of my efforts and that my successful intervention is, to him, a reason to dismiss the entire problem and tell me that I was wrong all along. It sucks. But DD is okay now so I've had to let it go.

Traditionally autism was a lifetime disabling condition. Now that diagnosis criteria have gotten so loose it’s often closer to a skills deficit than a lifetime disability. You deserve praise for addressing the skills deficit but apparently your husband was right that it wasn’t a lifetime disability

This is OP. I have a huge amount of respect for the PP you responded to. What she achieved with her daughter is extraordinary and is a dream for every parent facing this type of challenge.

However, from the tone of your message, I do not think that you even remotely understand the amount of effort and sacrifice that PP probably had to do on her own in order to raise a functioning child. The outcome does not support your or her DH’s claim that everything was fine to begin with.

I would know because that is exactly what I have been doing for so many years. Reading books, taking courses, everything and anything just to help my DS. It has all probably helped some, but, unfortunately, DS continues to have the same core issues that he had 5 years ago. My career and health are next to destroyed and I am not being a parent and spouse I wish to be while just trying to keep my DS afloat with all the issues that come up at school and home. And then DH says “well, look at all the success - he wouldn’t be able to achieve all that if there really was an issue”. I have another DC and parenting has been a walk in the park with that child.

The issue that I am going to have with an evaluation is going to be with DH going along with any findings as well as explaining it to DS if DH continues to insist there is no problem. But, I suppose I could at least know what type of additional support might be beneficial.

OP you said it yourself - you did all this work and don’t see a fundamental change. It’s a fantasy that autism can be cured with “early intervention.” The PP you are referring to simply has a child who is not and never was clinically autistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, sometimes it's SN and also parenting could improve.

In grades PK4-4th I thought my DD had pretty subtle autism. Her PK4 teacher flagged it (and she was the mother of a girl with autism), a few elopements, significant sensory *under*sensitivity, hyperlexia, special interests, generally weak social skills and social anxiety/avoidance. No major behavior problem aside from eloping like 2-3 times total in her preschool/K years. In 5th grade she improved a lot socially and has less special interests, so now in 8th I wouldn't say she meets any ASD criteria, though she's still sensory under-sensitive.

My DH never really bought into the autism possibility, and he thinks it was never a thing. I think the massive effort I put into developing her social skills was effective. So of course it irritates me immensely that he reaps the benefit of my efforts and that my successful intervention is, to him, a reason to dismiss the entire problem and tell me that I was wrong all along. It sucks. But DD is okay now so I've had to let it go.

Traditionally autism was a lifetime disabling condition. Now that diagnosis criteria have gotten so loose it’s often closer to a skills deficit than a lifetime disability. You deserve praise for addressing the skills deficit but apparently your husband was right that it wasn’t a lifetime disability

This is OP. I have a huge amount of respect for the PP you responded to. What she achieved with her daughter is extraordinary and is a dream for every parent facing this type of challenge.

However, from the tone of your message, I do not think that you even remotely understand the amount of effort and sacrifice that PP probably had to do on her own in order to raise a functioning child. The outcome does not support your or her DH’s claim that everything was fine to begin with.

I would know because that is exactly what I have been doing for so many years. Reading books, taking courses, everything and anything just to help my DS. It has all probably helped some, but, unfortunately, DS continues to have the same core issues that he had 5 years ago. My career and health are next to destroyed and I am not being a parent and spouse I wish to be while just trying to keep my DS afloat with all the issues that come up at school and home. And then DH says “well, look at all the success - he wouldn’t be able to achieve all that if there really was an issue”. I have another DC and parenting has been a walk in the park with that child.

The issue that I am going to have with an evaluation is going to be with DH going along with any findings as well as explaining it to DS if DH continues to insist there is no problem. But, I suppose I could at least know what type of additional support might be beneficial.

OP you said it yourself - you did all this work and don’t see a fundamental change. It’s a fantasy that autism can be cured with “early intervention.” The PP you are referring to simply has a child who is not and never was clinically autistic.

Pp with the daughter here. Yes, it's unclear whether it would have been significant enough for a proper diagnosis. But we can always look back and second guess things, and where is the line? What is "enough" for a diagnosis? It's easy to copy and paste from the DSM. Harder to know with a specific individual child. I do feel that her social skills are better than they would have been without my efforts.