SN “Believers” vs SN “Non-Believers” - how to do what is in the best interest of a child

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, I have gotten several neuropyschs without the written consent of my husband. Shop around. Really the only circumstance in which a health professional should require the written consent of both parents is when the clinician knows the parents are divorced and there is a custody order - then they should ask what the custody order says about medical decision making.

If you are married to the kid's bio dad, there should be no requirement to consent both parents - the consent of either is valid.

If you are single and never married your kids dad and there's no written custody order about medical decision making, then you as the mother can provide full consent.

I've taken my DCs to many psychiatry, therapy and assessment appointments and only once have I had a psychiatrist insist that the other parent consent (and participate). The other parent did consent and initially participated, but soon made excuses. The clinician did not continue to mandate his participation -- I think the clinician had seen enough to know what was going on.

Not OP but the divorced mom here who was asked for the other parent’s consent despite me telling them that there is no specific custody order (it’s literally two lines like “child will be with dad on weekends”). I was surprised too as it was never a problem before. Now I am hesitant to shop around as my ex caught wind and I am not sure our kid will never mention and it’s not good to tell him to keep it from his dad etc etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, sometimes it's SN and also parenting could improve.

In grades PK4-4th I thought my DD had pretty subtle autism. Her PK4 teacher flagged it (and she was the mother of a girl with autism), a few elopements, significant sensory *under*sensitivity, hyperlexia, special interests, generally weak social skills and social anxiety/avoidance. No major behavior problem aside from eloping like 2-3 times total in her preschool/K years. In 5th grade she improved a lot socially and has less special interests, so now in 8th I wouldn't say she meets any ASD criteria, though she's still sensory under-sensitive.

My DH never really bought into the autism possibility, and he thinks it was never a thing. I think the massive effort I put into developing her social skills was effective. So of course it irritates me immensely that he reaps the benefit of my efforts and that my successful intervention is, to him, a reason to dismiss the entire problem and tell me that I was wrong all along. It sucks. But DD is okay now so I've had to let it go.

Traditionally autism was a lifetime disabling condition. Now that diagnosis criteria have gotten so loose it’s often closer to a skills deficit than a lifetime disability. You deserve praise for addressing the skills deficit but apparently your husband was right that it wasn’t a lifetime disability

This is OP. I have a huge amount of respect for the PP you responded to. What she achieved with her daughter is extraordinary and is a dream for every parent facing this type of challenge.

However, from the tone of your message, I do not think that you even remotely understand the amount of effort and sacrifice that PP probably had to do on her own in order to raise a functioning child. The outcome does not support your or her DH’s claim that everything was fine to begin with.

I would know because that is exactly what I have been doing for so many years. Reading books, taking courses, everything and anything just to help my DS. It has all probably helped some, but, unfortunately, DS continues to have the same core issues that he had 5 years ago. My career and health are next to destroyed and I am not being a parent and spouse I wish to be while just trying to keep my DS afloat with all the issues that come up at school and home. And then DH says “well, look at all the success - he wouldn’t be able to achieve all that if there really was an issue”. I have another DC and parenting has been a walk in the park with that child.

The issue that I am going to have with an evaluation is going to be with DH going along with any findings as well as explaining it to DS if DH continues to insist there is no problem. But, I suppose I could at least know what type of additional support might be beneficial.

OP you said it yourself - you did all this work and don’t see a fundamental change. It’s a fantasy that autism can be cured with “early intervention.” The PP you are referring to simply has a child who is not and never was clinically autistic.

Pp with the daughter here. Yes, it's unclear whether it would have been significant enough for a proper diagnosis. But we can always look back and second guess things, and where is the line? What is "enough" for a diagnosis? It's easy to copy and paste from the DSM. Harder to know with a specific individual child. I do feel that her social skills are better than they would have been without my efforts.

Sure but hopefully you can understand that there is no curative therapy for kids actually diagnosed with autism. And also how annoying it is to hear you claim that eg because you taught her to what, say please? that you have some special skill as a a parent that those of us with kids on the spectrum don’t have. News flash, actual autism social communication issues are much more than just being awkward about greetings or whatever.

I do not think I have any special skill. Nor am I making any claims about "curative" therapy. I believe that everyone can learn and grow and mature. Including people with autism and people without autism. I hope that you also think that.

The nebulous, imprecise boundaries of the autism diagnostic criteria are not some brick wall that people run into. If someone was just within the criteria and then improved their skills a bit, they could end up on the other side of the "line". That is what may have happened with my DD. Or not. It's hard to say in retrospect.

Or you could say they are an autistic person who learned a skill but is still autistic. Temple Grandin learned a lot of skills. She's still autistic. I think the point is that, while people with autism can learn neurotypical social skills, they often never automatically engage in social skills the way a neurotypical person does, because they are not neurotypical. Many autistic kids view the social skills they have been taught as an exhausting mask they must wear for others, resulting in a lot of wasted cognitive energy spent maintaining the mask so as to "fit in", when that energy could have been more productively and pleasurably spent for them.

Also, viewing social skills training as - "I taught them something about social skills and now they no longer qualify for the autism diagnosis so maybe they never did" conceptualizes autism as negative/atypical/dysfuncational/weaknesses rather than a person with a neurodivergent brain who has different perceptions and ways of interacting that may be equally valid. Why are we teaching all autistic kids to shake hands and look the other in the eye while doing so? Why not teach everyone that some people like to shake and say hello and others don't?

https://therapistndc.org/therapy/social-skills-training/
https://differentminds.scot/lived-experiences/masking/
https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/behaviour/masking
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10060524/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, sometimes it's SN and also parenting could improve.

In grades PK4-4th I thought my DD had pretty subtle autism. Her PK4 teacher flagged it (and she was the mother of a girl with autism), a few elopements, significant sensory *under*sensitivity, hyperlexia, special interests, generally weak social skills and social anxiety/avoidance. No major behavior problem aside from eloping like 2-3 times total in her preschool/K years. In 5th grade she improved a lot socially and has less special interests, so now in 8th I wouldn't say she meets any ASD criteria, though she's still sensory under-sensitive.

My DH never really bought into the autism possibility, and he thinks it was never a thing. I think the massive effort I put into developing her social skills was effective. So of course it irritates me immensely that he reaps the benefit of my efforts and that my successful intervention is, to him, a reason to dismiss the entire problem and tell me that I was wrong all along. It sucks. But DD is okay now so I've had to let it go.

Traditionally autism was a lifetime disabling condition. Now that diagnosis criteria have gotten so loose it’s often closer to a skills deficit than a lifetime disability. You deserve praise for addressing the skills deficit but apparently your husband was right that it wasn’t a lifetime disability

This is OP. I have a huge amount of respect for the PP you responded to. What she achieved with her daughter is extraordinary and is a dream for every parent facing this type of challenge.

However, from the tone of your message, I do not think that you even remotely understand the amount of effort and sacrifice that PP probably had to do on her own in order to raise a functioning child. The outcome does not support your or her DH’s claim that everything was fine to begin with.

I would know because that is exactly what I have been doing for so many years. Reading books, taking courses, everything and anything just to help my DS. It has all probably helped some, but, unfortunately, DS continues to have the same core issues that he had 5 years ago. My career and health are next to destroyed and I am not being a parent and spouse I wish to be while just trying to keep my DS afloat with all the issues that come up at school and home. And then DH says “well, look at all the success - he wouldn’t be able to achieve all that if there really was an issue”. I have another DC and parenting has been a walk in the park with that child.

The issue that I am going to have with an evaluation is going to be with DH going along with any findings as well as explaining it to DS if DH continues to insist there is no problem. But, I suppose I could at least know what type of additional support might be beneficial.

OP you said it yourself - you did all this work and don’t see a fundamental change. It’s a fantasy that autism can be cured with “early intervention.” The PP you are referring to simply has a child who is not and never was clinically autistic.

Pp with the daughter here. Yes, it's unclear whether it would have been significant enough for a proper diagnosis. But we can always look back and second guess things, and where is the line? What is "enough" for a diagnosis? It's easy to copy and paste from the DSM. Harder to know with a specific individual child. I do feel that her social skills are better than they would have been without my efforts.

Sure but hopefully you can understand that there is no curative therapy for kids actually diagnosed with autism. And also how annoying it is to hear you claim that eg because you taught her to what, say please? that you have some special skill as a a parent that those of us with kids on the spectrum don’t have. News flash, actual autism social communication issues are much more than just being awkward about greetings or whatever.

I do not think I have any special skill. Nor am I making any claims about "curative" therapy. I believe that everyone can learn and grow and mature. Including people with autism and people without autism. I hope that you also think that.

The nebulous, imprecise boundaries of the autism diagnostic criteria are not some brick wall that people run into. If someone was just within the criteria and then improved their skills a bit, they could end up on the other side of the "line". That is what may have happened with my DD. Or not. It's hard to say in retrospect.

Or you could say they are an autistic person who learned a skill but is still autistic. Temple Grandin learned a lot of skills. She's still autistic. I think the point is that, while people with autism can learn neurotypical social skills, they often never automatically engage in social skills the way a neurotypical person does, because they are not neurotypical. Many autistic kids view the social skills they have been taught as an exhausting mask they must wear for others, resulting in a lot of wasted cognitive energy spent maintaining the mask so as to "fit in", when that energy could have been more productively and pleasurably spent for them.

Also, viewing social skills training as - "I taught them something about social skills and now they no longer qualify for the autism diagnosis so maybe they never did" conceptualizes autism as negative/atypical/dysfuncational/weaknesses rather than a person with a neurodivergent brain who has different perceptions and ways of interacting that may be equally valid. Why are we teaching all autistic kids to shake hands and look the other in the eye while doing so? Why not teach everyone that some people like to shake and say hello and others don't?

https://therapistndc.org/therapy/social-skills-training/
https://differentminds.scot/lived-experiences/masking/
https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/behaviour/masking
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10060524/

I think you're overestimating how precisely clinicians are able to draw that kind of distinction, especially in young children. If you want to go down the "equally valid" path, go for it, but I preferred to equip my DD with skills she may choose to use and knowledge she may choose to act on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, sometimes it's SN and also parenting could improve.

In grades PK4-4th I thought my DD had pretty subtle autism. Her PK4 teacher flagged it (and she was the mother of a girl with autism), a few elopements, significant sensory *under*sensitivity, hyperlexia, special interests, generally weak social skills and social anxiety/avoidance. No major behavior problem aside from eloping like 2-3 times total in her preschool/K years. In 5th grade she improved a lot socially and has less special interests, so now in 8th I wouldn't say she meets any ASD criteria, though she's still sensory under-sensitive.

My DH never really bought into the autism possibility, and he thinks it was never a thing. I think the massive effort I put into developing her social skills was effective. So of course it irritates me immensely that he reaps the benefit of my efforts and that my successful intervention is, to him, a reason to dismiss the entire problem and tell me that I was wrong all along. It sucks. But DD is okay now so I've had to let it go.

Traditionally autism was a lifetime disabling condition. Now that diagnosis criteria have gotten so loose it’s often closer to a skills deficit than a lifetime disability. You deserve praise for addressing the skills deficit but apparently your husband was right that it wasn’t a lifetime disability

This is OP. I have a huge amount of respect for the PP you responded to. What she achieved with her daughter is extraordinary and is a dream for every parent facing this type of challenge.

However, from the tone of your message, I do not think that you even remotely understand the amount of effort and sacrifice that PP probably had to do on her own in order to raise a functioning child. The outcome does not support your or her DH’s claim that everything was fine to begin with.

I would know because that is exactly what I have been doing for so many years. Reading books, taking courses, everything and anything just to help my DS. It has all probably helped some, but, unfortunately, DS continues to have the same core issues that he had 5 years ago. My career and health are next to destroyed and I am not being a parent and spouse I wish to be while just trying to keep my DS afloat with all the issues that come up at school and home. And then DH says “well, look at all the success - he wouldn’t be able to achieve all that if there really was an issue”. I have another DC and parenting has been a walk in the park with that child.

The issue that I am going to have with an evaluation is going to be with DH going along with any findings as well as explaining it to DS if DH continues to insist there is no problem. But, I suppose I could at least know what type of additional support might be beneficial.

OP you said it yourself - you did all this work and don’t see a fundamental change. It’s a fantasy that autism can be cured with “early intervention.” The PP you are referring to simply has a child who is not and never was clinically autistic.

Pp with the daughter here. Yes, it's unclear whether it would have been significant enough for a proper diagnosis. But we can always look back and second guess things, and where is the line? What is "enough" for a diagnosis? It's easy to copy and paste from the DSM. Harder to know with a specific individual child. I do feel that her social skills are better than they would have been without my efforts.

Sure but hopefully you can understand that there is no curative therapy for kids actually diagnosed with autism. And also how annoying it is to hear you claim that eg because you taught her to what, say please? that you have some special skill as a a parent that those of us with kids on the spectrum don’t have. News flash, actual autism social communication issues are much more than just being awkward about greetings or whatever.

I do not think I have any special skill. Nor am I making any claims about "curative" therapy. I believe that everyone can learn and grow and mature. Including people with autism and people without autism. I hope that you also think that.

The nebulous, imprecise boundaries of the autism diagnostic criteria are not some brick wall that people run into. If someone was just within the criteria and then improved their skills a bit, they could end up on the other side of the "line". That is what may have happened with my DD. Or not. It's hard to say in retrospect.

Or you could say they are an autistic person who learned a skill but is still autistic. Temple Grandin learned a lot of skills. She's still autistic. I think the point is that, while people with autism can learn neurotypical social skills, they often never automatically engage in social skills the way a neurotypical person does, because they are not neurotypical. Many autistic kids view the social skills they have been taught as an exhausting mask they must wear for others, resulting in a lot of wasted cognitive energy spent maintaining the mask so as to "fit in", when that energy could have been more productively and pleasurably spent for them.

Also, viewing social skills training as - "I taught them something about social skills and now they no longer qualify for the autism diagnosis so maybe they never did" conceptualizes autism as negative/atypical/dysfuncational/weaknesses rather than a person with a neurodivergent brain who has different perceptions and ways of interacting that may be equally valid. Why are we teaching all autistic kids to shake hands and look the other in the eye while doing so? Why not teach everyone that some people like to shake and say hello and others don't?

https://therapistndc.org/therapy/social-skills-training/
https://differentminds.scot/lived-experiences/masking/
https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/behaviour/masking
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10060524/

I think you're overestimating how precisely clinicians are able to draw that kind of distinction, especially in young children. If you want to go down the "equally valid" path, go for it, but I preferred to equip my DD with skills she may choose to use and knowledge she may choose to act on.

I mean I hope you understand how very very different your case is when you breezily assert it is just a matter of “preferring to” teach social skills that your child “may choose to act on.” You make it sound like it’s teaching her how to use the right salad fork or something. For those of us with kids with actual challenges we sure wish it was as simple as that. Don’t you think we would all CHOOSE to do it, if it were that easy?