Is there a "good way" to be a vessel for your family members' anxieties?

[Anonymous]

Op, you contribute as an enabler and co-dependent. Your sense of self is likely tied to your role as the “helpful” “available” daughter/mom/friend. I would advise you focus more on yourself and what it is you get out of this.

There is a middle way that isn’t being a dumping ground or freaking out on someone. Your work is figuring out what that in between space is for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you need better boundaries and she desperately needs a therapist. That's what they are there for.

+1

You might a codependent relationship with your mother and maybe with your kids. Your are enabling their behavior, and they need better ways to handle it than to dump it on anyone else.

Here is more about codependency:

https://psychcentral.com/lib/symptoms-signs-of-codependency

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you need better boundaries and she desperately needs a therapist. That's what they are there for.

+1

You might a codependent relationship with your mother and maybe with your kids. Your are enabling their behavior, and they need better ways to handle it than to dump it on anyone else.

Here is more about codependency:

https://psychcentral.com/lib/symptoms-signs-of-codependency

I should add that I used to have bad boundaries and do the same for my mother. After a while, I didn't want to do this. My sibling also tried to make me their dumping ground. It was all bad for my health.


Put yourself first, OP. You deserve it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, please re read all your responses. You just defend her and the situation and don't seem to take any advice on how to change things.

+1

You ask for advice, OP, and it sounds like you are taking none of it. Continue on with the life you dislike enough that you are posting on a message board for advice. But stop wasting the time of people here.

Either get professional help or do not. It's your choice to live with this situation or not.

[Anonymous]

This book might help.

"Fjelstad then explains the Caretaker term, or someone who gives up their identity to meet the emotional needs of a borderline or narcissistic loved one, and points out some typical feelings of a Caretaker and the different types of Caretakers. Fjelstad then helps the reader understand how well-meaning individuals can become Caretakers and continue to stay in this role out of fear, obligation, and guilt.

By focusing on the emotional, cognitive, behavioral, and relationship distortions of Caretakers within their relationship to the BP/NP, she shows readers how caretaking inevitably leads to an endless cycle of relationship chaos, self-neglect, and despair. She ends with saying that the BP/NP cannot be changed and so any improvement must come from the Caretaker’s side, starting with letting go of the hope that Caretaking will work."

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5379216/

[Anonymous]

Op here. I’m familiar with codependency and you guys are right that I’ve struggled with it in the past, and maybe struggle with it time to time still.

And I’m VERY familiar with boundaries and the importance of them. These are all things I worked really hard on with over 2 years of therapy.

I’m at the point where I’m learning what I can and can’t handle.

I have boundaries with my mom too. But I don’t want to cut her off or ignore her, nor am I going to try to fix her by forcing her to get a therapist.

Like I said, she has good days and bad days. Under stress, she reverts. I can detach and just let her say all kinds of stuff without letting it affect me. It is almost like letting a toddler tantrum. If I abandon her in the moment, it gets worse. If I try to reason with her, it gets worse. I just have to let her ride it out and vomit up all the bad feelings, and then she feels better after.

If I don’t have the time, or the mental bandwidth to do it, I tell her I have to go. But if I have the capacity, I just do it.

She is not in a constant state of despair. It’s a cycle. There are days when she is in a good mood and we have no issues.

Maybe, it’s not good for her to vent to me, I’m not really sure. She says she feels better after, and that it helps her a lot, but maybe it keeps her in the cycle. I don’t know the answer.

I do question why I am the “chosen one” to be her dumping ground. I’ve asked her this. And she says I am the only one who listens without judging. She has expressed concern about whether she should be telling me all these things, that maybe she shouldn’t do it to me, and maybe it’s too much of a burden for me. So she’s not completely lacking in awareness. But ultimately she never really recovered from losing my dad, and I think she feels a giant hole from his absence, and loneliness, even though she has a large group of friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I’m familiar with codependency and you guys are right that I’ve struggled with it in the past, and maybe struggle with it time to time still.

And I’m VERY familiar with boundaries and the importance of them. These are all things I worked really hard on with over 2 years of therapy.

I’m at the point where I’m learning what I can and can’t handle.

I have boundaries with my mom too. But I don’t want to cut her off or ignore her, nor am I going to try to fix her by forcing her to get a therapist.

Like I said, she has good days and bad days. Under stress, she reverts. I can detach and just let her say all kinds of stuff without letting it affect me. It is almost like letting a toddler tantrum. If I abandon her in the moment, it gets worse. If I try to reason with her, it gets worse. I just have to let her ride it out and vomit up all the bad feelings, and then she feels better after.

If I don’t have the time, or the mental bandwidth to do it, I tell her I have to go. But if I have the capacity, I just do it.

She is not in a constant state of despair. It’s a cycle. There are days when she is in a good mood and we have no issues.

Maybe, it’s not good for her to vent to me, I’m not really sure. She says she feels better after, and that it helps her a lot, but maybe it keeps her in the cycle. I don’t know the answer.

I do question why I am the “chosen one” to be her dumping ground. I’ve asked her this. And she says I am the only one who listens without judging. She has expressed concern about whether she should be telling me all these things, that maybe she shouldn’t do it to me, and maybe it’s too much of a burden for me. So she’s not completely lacking in awareness. But ultimately she never really recovered from losing my dad, and I think she feels a giant hole from his absence, and loneliness, even though she has a large group of friends.

Also, I do take care of my needs. I have gotten good at that through therapy. I finally took steps to pursue my own interests/career. And there are times when my mom expresses sadness that it takes away time that I can spend with her and helping her, and she wishes I would stop doing it, but ultimately she also accepts it.

[Anonymous]

You and your mom sound pretty similar. Your whining and attention seeking on here. It doesn't seem like you actually want help or input, you just want people to listen to you and validate you. Sounds an awful lot like your mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You and your mom sound pretty similar. Your whining and attention seeking on here. It doesn't seem like you actually want help or input, you just want people to listen to you and validate you. Sounds an awful lot like your mom.

Sorry "your whining and attention seeking on here seems to be exactly what your mom does to you"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You and your mom sound pretty similar. Your whining and attention seeking on here. It doesn't seem like you actually want help or input, you just want people to listen to you and validate you. Sounds an awful lot like your mom.

NP. OP seems to have taken some points to heart. Also venting on an anonymous message board for whoever wants to waste time responding is a lot of healthier and less damaging to actual people than the behavior her mother engages in.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm the one with major anxiety issues in my family. I have GAD and panic disorder. I don't dump on anyone because I bottle it all up and it comes out in middle of the night panic attacks that look like heart attacks, and I have spikes of very high blood pressure. I'm literally killing myself slowly.

Excuse me, OP, but I don't blame anyone for this, nor am I angry. Please get rid of these prejudices, thank you.

If someone dumps on you, of course you need boundaries.

It's ok to be angry. It doesn't make you a bad person. And although you may not blame anyone, my mom actually does. She does her share of blaming herself. But she's often angry at her sisters, at my brother, and her friends. Because either they are not there for her, or "selfish", or "make her feel like her insides are rotting out", often with just comments thrown about carelessly, that she takes to heart and will replay in her mind for decades.

PP you replied to. I don't have anything to be angry about This is not an emotion I am capable of feeling regarding my anxiety. You really need to understand that anxious people are not necessarily angry people, and vice-versa. If someone exhibits resentment and impulsively criticizes others, that's not OK and you don't need to tolerate that just because they have a diagnosis.

I appreciate that insight. I only know what I know, from my mom, my two kids, my one friend, and my MIL.

Maybe what they have is more than anxiety. It's their desire for control - over people's perception of them, over the world around them, and frustration about being misunderstood or unseen or feeling less than. They all express it slightly differently. My son will scream. My daughter will sulk and mutter how she wishes someone (sometimes me) ghastly suffering. My mom might cry, and go on a 1 hour complaint tirade about all of the ways her sister wronged or misjudged her over the course of her lifetime. My friend will do a similar 1 hour complaint tirade about how her family member is evil. My MIL might corner me at a family event and cry and tell me all the problems she had with her daughter, things she's never shared with my DH.

So I'm not sure if I should let them go on then.... blaming others. Not really sure how I should handle that part.

Don't you think they should see someone who can help them with all of that? Unless there's real actual issues with the people around them making them feel less than or unseen, wouldn't they be happier if they could validate themselves and they didn't care what other people saw them as?

Easier said than done, I know, but it sounds like you're letting them endlessly dump on you. That might relieve feelings in the moment, but something like CBT or DBT might help them get rid of the thoughts that drive feelings almost as fast as they start whenever they aren't warranted. I know, feelings are always valid, but belief systems aren't.

And it's especially not OK for your daughter to be wishing you ghastly suffering.

In a perfect world, yes, it would be great if they had their own therapist. And of course my mom would be happier if she didn't care what other people thought of her. My kids too, but they are kids and they care deeply about what I think of them. But therapy for them is just not an option. None of them would agree to it in a million years. Except maybe my son. My friend actually got a therapist of her own accord this year, and man did it really make a difference.

Therapy is also very expensive. My mom barely wants to spend an extra 10 cents at the grocery store, let alone spend hundreds of dollars for a therapist. Not to mention, she holds lots of negative stereotypes and stigmas for people who see therapists.

OP you are an enabler. Of course your mom won't see a therapist. She can do what she wants to do with you-dump, blame, emote, but never learn healthy coping mechanisms. You pays you with telling you how special you are because you are the only one she can share with and basically the part she leaves out is....stay mentally ill. You are not her savior, you are more like a drug dealer because you make her feel better at first, but you reinforce what keeps her trapped in untreated mental illness. You need to work with a therapist on setting boundaries and dealing with the fallout. I would also work with that therspist on boundaries with your kids and getting proper help for them as needed.

I worked with a therapist for 2 years. I actually almost fired him at one point because I felt like he always sided with my mom, but I called him out on it and he apologized. But generally he thought I needed to be more empathetic and compassionate towards her, and try to help her more. At one point it felt like he was a therapist for her and we were working hard to solve her issues and problems and that’s when I said he needed to be my therapist, not hers.

I do have boundaries with her now. I know I sound a bit conflicted in my posts. There’s just a lot of history. And I know I still carry a little bit of guilt. But I’ve come a long way. I can kind of detach myself from her spirals now. I just let her vent and spew. She doesn’t do it daily. She just gets triggered by certain things which sets her off down a path.

But maybe I can just do time limits to protect my time and myself. And maybe I can end the conversation if she starts on her blaming.

It's possible that therapist was just a bad therapist.

But if you consistently told the story you are telling here, and the therapist sided with your mother, maybe there's more to the story that he saw that you are not sharing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the one with major anxiety issues in my family. I have GAD and panic disorder. I don't dump on anyone because I bottle it all up and it comes out in middle of the night panic attacks that look like heart attacks, and I have spikes of very high blood pressure. I'm literally killing myself slowly.

Excuse me, OP, but I don't blame anyone for this, nor am I angry. Please get rid of these prejudices, thank you.

If someone dumps on you, of course you need boundaries.

It's ok to be angry. It doesn't make you a bad person. And although you may not blame anyone, my mom actually does. She does her share of blaming herself. But she's often angry at her sisters, at my brother, and her friends. Because either they are not there for her, or "selfish", or "make her feel like her insides are rotting out", often with just comments thrown about carelessly, that she takes to heart and will replay in her mind for decades.

PP you replied to. I don't have anything to be angry about This is not an emotion I am capable of feeling regarding my anxiety. You really need to understand that anxious people are not necessarily angry people, and vice-versa. If someone exhibits resentment and impulsively criticizes others, that's not OK and you don't need to tolerate that just because they have a diagnosis.

I appreciate that insight. I only know what I know, from my mom, my two kids, my one friend, and my MIL.

Maybe what they have is more than anxiety. It's their desire for control - over people's perception of them, over the world around them, and frustration about being misunderstood or unseen or feeling less than. They all express it slightly differently. My son will scream. My daughter will sulk and mutter how she wishes someone (sometimes me) ghastly suffering. My mom might cry, and go on a 1 hour complaint tirade about all of the ways her sister wronged or misjudged her over the course of her lifetime. My friend will do a similar 1 hour complaint tirade about how her family member is evil. My MIL might corner me at a family event and cry and tell me all the problems she had with her daughter, things she's never shared with my DH.

So I'm not sure if I should let them go on then.... blaming others. Not really sure how I should handle that part.

Don't you think they should see someone who can help them with all of that? Unless there's real actual issues with the people around them making them feel less than or unseen, wouldn't they be happier if they could validate themselves and they didn't care what other people saw them as?

Easier said than done, I know, but it sounds like you're letting them endlessly dump on you. That might relieve feelings in the moment, but something like CBT or DBT might help them get rid of the thoughts that drive feelings almost as fast as they start whenever they aren't warranted. I know, feelings are always valid, but belief systems aren't.

And it's especially not OK for your daughter to be wishing you ghastly suffering.

In a perfect world, yes, it would be great if they had their own therapist. And of course my mom would be happier if she didn't care what other people thought of her. My kids too, but they are kids and they care deeply about what I think of them. But therapy for them is just not an option. None of them would agree to it in a million years. Except maybe my son. My friend actually got a therapist of her own accord this year, and man did it really make a difference.

Therapy is also very expensive. My mom barely wants to spend an extra 10 cents at the grocery store, let alone spend hundreds of dollars for a therapist. Not to mention, she holds lots of negative stereotypes and stigmas for people who see therapists.

OP you are an enabler. Of course your mom won't see a therapist. She can do what she wants to do with you-dump, blame, emote, but never learn healthy coping mechanisms. You pays you with telling you how special you are because you are the only one she can share with and basically the part she leaves out is....stay mentally ill. You are not her savior, you are more like a drug dealer because you make her feel better at first, but you reinforce what keeps her trapped in untreated mental illness. You need to work with a therapist on setting boundaries and dealing with the fallout. I would also work with that therspist on boundaries with your kids and getting proper help for them as needed.

I worked with a therapist for 2 years. I actually almost fired him at one point because I felt like he always sided with my mom, but I called him out on it and he apologized. But generally he thought I needed to be more empathetic and compassionate towards her, and try to help her more. At one point it felt like he was a therapist for her and we were working hard to solve her issues and problems and that’s when I said he needed to be my therapist, not hers.

I do have boundaries with her now. I know I sound a bit conflicted in my posts. There’s just a lot of history. And I know I still carry a little bit of guilt. But I’ve come a long way. I can kind of detach myself from her spirals now. I just let her vent and spew. She doesn’t do it daily. She just gets triggered by certain things which sets her off down a path.

But maybe I can just do time limits to protect my time and myself. And maybe I can end the conversation if she starts on her blaming.

It's possible that therapist was just a bad therapist.

But if you consistently told the story you are telling here, and the therapist sided with your mother, maybe there's more to the story that he saw that you are not sharing.

OP here. I've asked myself this question a lot. But I am a chronic self-doubter, always trying to see if there's truth to the other side. And I've been struggling with guilt and shame for most of my adult life for not being a good enough daughter. In the end, I do think he was biased, as he had adult children, and I think that maybe he was triggered by some of the things I was saying, because maybe he saw himself in my mom a bit. But he did help me get on a path to forgiveness. I actually did not get there with my mom with him, but with my dad, who died several years ago.

And I've read all the responses here. And I can see similarities in what I'm doing here with what my mom gets stuck in also. We get stuck in a "past narrative" and "past hurts" and replay them even if it not may not match up with the current reality. I found I've done this with my husband too, and it ends up blocking real change. That's why it's good to get an outside perspective once in a while to see where I really am.

[Anonymous]

OP it's not about "fixing" her by forcing therapy. It's about not enabling her but being her dumping ground. She decides if she gets therapy or not, but you don't make it easy for her to avoid it but letting her to this destructive dance. of course, she feels better just like a junkie feels better when he gets a hit, but the feeling doesn't last and the addiction is destructive. Of course she cycles. Mental illness often involves swings. Healthy people do not obsessively blame others and expect people to be their dumping ground. You need to figure out what YOU are getting out of this. Then you will be able to have real boundaries. You seem to be fixated on being a "good daughter" and that will make you easy to manipulate. She basically tells you that you are good for allowing her to dump. She will likely turn on you and indicate you are BAD when you set more boundaries. You need an internal locust of control. Is it good to enable bad behavior just so you get to feel like you are a good girl?

[Anonymous]

I meant locus of control, not locust

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP it's not about "fixing" her by forcing therapy. It's about not enabling her but being her dumping ground. She decides if she gets therapy or not, but you don't make it easy for her to avoid it but letting her to this destructive dance. of course, she feels better just like a junkie feels better when he gets a hit, but the feeling doesn't last and the addiction is destructive. Of course she cycles. Mental illness often involves swings. Healthy people do not obsessively blame others and expect people to be their dumping ground. You need to figure out what YOU are getting out of this. Then you will be able to have real boundaries. You seem to be fixated on being a "good daughter" and that will make you easy to manipulate. She basically tells you that you are good for allowing her to dump. She will likely turn on you and indicate you are BAD when you set more boundaries. You need an internal locus of control. Is it good to enable bad behavior just so you get to feel like you are a good girl?

I don’t care anymore if I’m a “good daughter”. What’s harder for me to handle is when she starts spiraling into depression and saying it would be better if she just died so that she wasn’t such burden on me and my brother. Every time she says that, it eats at me. Maybe she wants me to say, no mom, you’re not a burden, we want you to live and all these reassurances, but I can’t get myself to say it. Because I do feel like it’s a little manipulative on her part.

What do I get out of this? I get a mom who doesn’t progressively sink down into a depression spiral, which feels like the weight of the world on my shoulders. I get a mom who still experiences a decent quality of life in her final years, who can enjoy her friendships and her independence while she can. I get a mom who has at least some semblance of a relationship with my kids. I get peace of mind that she is okay.

There are short periods in her life where she seems to be happy and busy with her friends. I praise her for it. And I’m happy for her. But then there’s always another crisis or something or other that happens that sends her reeling again.