Can we have a rational discussion about going Greek?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was in a house and still have many friends from that time. Lifelong friends. I conflate behavior that may have been more prevalent at that time (date rape, included) with Greek life, which may not be fair. It was a lot of getting ready for parties, going to parties, black out drinking etc, losing a Sunday to being hungover, talking about what bad things the bad girls did. One of my friends recently told me here big memory was everyone weighing themselves weekly, which I had totally blocked.

I've told my kids only some of this. What I do tell my kids was that it was very limiting and if I had one suggestion for them it was to embrace ALL of college life. Meet a LOT of people. If you don't like "woke", go find some woke. If you've never met a kid with MAGA parents, go talk to them. Go to the guest lectures. Sit in a lunchtime quartet once at least. And sure, go to lots of parties.

In my house, people joined clubs but they same quasi professional clubs. None of us were highlighting are hair in the bathroom by day and then doing a radio show by night. or joining an improv group. or getting involved in campus or community politics. Even the community service we did - which was substantial - was in our own bubble. We may have made 1000 thanksgiving boxes for the poor, but we never really interacted with the outside world.

I think everyone dislikes the "who didn't get a bid" thing. I hope everyone does. I like to think that even as 18-year olds we were aware that that was a bad look. But there was a social caste for no good reason (mostly based on looks) and I internalized it. Although certainly, by senior year I knew it was bullshit.

I did like the house set up, but I think a lot of colleges have emulated that in other ways. I was really drawn to the universities with residential colleges when we toured.

Totally agree with this, matched my experience. Philanthropy was in a bubble. Greek system was our own world within the college. The facets of it that I did like are similar to that of a residential college system which I also like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any mention of going Greek on this forum is always a trigger. Why is that? Why do people care so much? I mean, if it's not your thing, great, but why judge so harshly when somebody else does it?

I see the positive appeal in terms of networking and belonging to a ready-made social clique. My main concern is the hazing and cult-like rules and conditioning. The dysfunctional power dynamic seems to be priming kids for joining toxic relationships or toxic workplaces.

I wish frats/sororities would be more healthy social environments than they are designed to be. Our kids are leaving home at 18-ish and I want them to have nurturing mini homes away from home, but the power dynamic of rushing and them being forced to be loyal to the group at all costs seems problematic.

You were never in either I can tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I did not go Greek. They didn't have frats at his college, and I wasn't interested.

So far, our kids say that they don't want to. We've tried to keep an open mind and have told them that if they strongly feel ilke they would want to do it, we'd be fine with it. One of our kids is really shy, and I can see how it would help them, IF they could make it through rush. (They're also really cute and nice, but I'm not sure that's enough.)

Not sure you are doing a very good job of keeping an open mind because of your use of the word "strongly".

I was in a fraternity. Had a lot of fun but it probably isn't for my kid in college. He isn't a partier. I'm assuming fraternities still have a lot of drinking. Maybe I am wrong. My nephew was in one at a Big 10 school. Refused to live in the house. Wasn't into that scene. He told them he would quit if they made him. They let him live in apartment. A friend has a kid at a small liberal arts college with D1 sports. They think he "needs" to join a fraternity since he isn't a on a sports team. They may or may not be right. But I do see their point.

I think it is very kid and school dependent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As an immigrant kid in college I found it exclusionary as hell. I am glad my own kids aren't interested.

You were unfortunately at the wrong college then. Totally not the experience I had.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't posted before but I am not a Greek fan. To me it all seems so superficial. You have to have the right hair, clothes, make up, income, and friend group for the sororities. Fraternities seem so focused on drinking and partying. College should be about pushing yourself outside your comfort zone and meeting people from all walks of life, not just hanging out with people who are clones of each other. None of my kids were interested in Greek and I'm glad.

It all depends on the school and particular fraternity. My kid's fraternity is very diverse and has had this exact experience you describe. That's why there is a Rush. You find the right house for you. It's pretty simple.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I was in one, very active on Panhellenic board, husband was also in IFC. There are many pros and cons. I think it elicits strong reactions due to the immaturity of “sorry you didn’t get a bid” type of comments. Some Greeks don’t seem to comprehend that it is very unappealing for very valid reasons to some people. I am glad mine aren’t interested despite having an overall positive experience. I do understand why others are excited about it, it can be a lot of fun and friends for a lifetime.

Can you elaborate on this?

I credit it with gaining confidence and leadership opportunities, but the day to day was not conducive to what I would want for kids. Rushing is vapid, focus was on partying many days of week, hazing, learning was secondary to Greek lifestyle and being a top house on campus. My son is way too academic and focused, wouldn’t appeal. My daughter who could possibly be interested, I’d rather she focus on more productive things than hair, makeup. clothing, parties and tik toks. Yes, they do good things too, but the outward appearances in all aspects of life is the focus. That just doesn’t jive with my adult sensibilities anymore. I do understand houses and campuses differ on norms.

It sure doesn't sound like you understand that at all. You're generalizing to the nth degree.

The PP asked for my opinion based on my experience and I shared it.

Oh, really? They had tic tok back in your day? How remarkable!

I ma very confused by your responses? I am not seeking yo be combative. I stated it is superficial, showed in different ways then versus tik toks now. I am glad you are pro-Greek, I understand why many love it. I did too when I was in it.

Sorry for catching you in a lie. You basically bashed the entire system, then pretended you were only relaying your personal experience when I called you out.

Not going to even bother responding further. Perhaps you are young, a lie? Glad the other readers seemed to be able to grasp that I offered pros and cons based on my experiences, and everyone can take it for whatever it is worth to them.

NP. Classy response, and I have appreciated your perspective.

Classy response after being caught in a lie you mean.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I was in one, very active on Panhellenic board, husband was also in IFC. There are many pros and cons. I think it elicits strong reactions due to the immaturity of “sorry you didn’t get a bid” type of comments. Some Greeks don’t seem to comprehend that it is very unappealing for very valid reasons to some people. I am glad mine aren’t interested despite having an overall positive experience. I do understand why others are excited about it, it can be a lot of fun and friends for a lifetime.

Can you elaborate on this?

I credit it with gaining confidence and leadership opportunities, but the day to day was not conducive to what I would want for kids. Rushing is vapid, focus was on partying many days of week, hazing, learning was secondary to Greek lifestyle and being a top house on campus. My son is way too academic and focused, wouldn’t appeal. My daughter who could possibly be interested, I’d rather she focus on more productive things than hair, makeup. clothing, parties and tik toks. Yes, they do good things too, but the outward appearances in all aspects of life is the focus. That just doesn’t jive with my adult sensibilities anymore. I do understand houses and campuses differ on norms.

It sure doesn't sound like you understand that at all. You're generalizing to the nth degree.

The PP asked for my opinion based on my experience and I shared it.

Oh, really? They had tic tok back in your day? How remarkable!

I ma very confused by your responses? I am not seeking yo be combative. I stated it is superficial, showed in different ways then versus tik toks now. I am glad you are pro-Greek, I understand why many love it. I did too when I was in it.

Sorry for catching you in a lie. You basically bashed the entire system, then pretended you were only relaying your personal experience when I called you out.

Not going to even bother responding further. Perhaps you are young, a lie? Glad the other readers seemed to be able to grasp that I offered pros and cons based on my experiences, and everyone can take it for whatever it is worth to them.

NP. Classy response, and I have appreciated your perspective.

Classy response after being caught in a lie you mean.

DP. What lie exactly are you obsessed with? I’ve read over the whole exchange and I don’t see any lie you think you’ve caught the pp in. You used Tik Tok like some kind of gotcha but the pp clearly was talking about Tik Tok use today, saying she’d rather her daughter focus on more productive things than Tik Tok. What lie do you think has been stated?

[Anonymous]

we had weekly weigh-ins too! we were always dieting! it was so dumb. drinking and dieting. talking about how many points where in this or that, like we were mothers at a country club.

[Anonymous]

There is one poster who seems particularly upset at anyone criticizing greek life. The irony is that this person underscores what is wrong with the system

[Anonymous]

Two of my girls were in sororities at UVA. They had a nice time, made some good friends, the girls all seemed very nice and put together, and now everyone is just fine and happy and gainfully employed. If you met my girls today you’d never peg them as “sorority types” — you’d think the opposite in fact. And that’s the point. You all are stereotyping to the extreme. Everyone is an individual and deserves to be treated and viewed as one.

I’m not gonna say you’re “just jealous” — but there’s definitely something living in your head on this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an immigrant kid in college I found it exclusionary as hell. I am glad my own kids aren't interested.

You were unfortunately at the wrong college then. Totally not the experience I had.

How can it be non-exclusionary if only a small percentage of people who rush are accepted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Two of my girls were in sororities at UVA. They had a nice time, made some good friends, the girls all seemed very nice and put together, and now everyone is just fine and happy and gainfully employed. If you met my girls today you’d never peg them as “sorority types” — you’d think the opposite in fact. And that’s the point. You all are stereotyping to the extreme. Everyone is an individual and deserves to be treated and viewed as one.

I’m not gonna say you’re “just jealous” — but there’s definitely something living in your head on this issue.

If this is the case, why do we always see herds of sorority girls dressed almost identically? Your argument is making me laugh, because the point of Greek life appears to be conformity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was in one, very active on Panhellenic board, husband was also in IFC. There are many pros and cons. I think it elicits strong reactions due to the immaturity of “sorry you didn’t get a bid” type of comments. Some Greeks don’t seem to comprehend that it is very unappealing for very valid reasons to some people. I am glad mine aren’t interested despite having an overall positive experience. I do understand why others are excited about it, it can be a lot of fun and friends for a lifetime.

Can you elaborate on this?

I credit it with gaining confidence and leadership opportunities, but the day to day was not conducive to what I would want for kids. Rushing is vapid, focus was on partying many days of week, hazing, learning was secondary to Greek lifestyle and being a top house on campus. My son is way too academic and focused, wouldn’t appeal. My daughter who could possibly be interested, I’d rather she focus on more productive things than hair, makeup. clothing, parties and tik toks. Yes, they do good things too, but the outward appearances in all aspects of life is the focus. That just doesn’t jive with my adult sensibilities anymore. I do understand houses and campuses differ on norms.

Thank you for elaborating. - the PP who asked you to

[Anonymous]

There are houses for most that want to be a part, but make no mistake the houses that take anyone are picked on. It’s all about pecking order in the greek system. You can go see for yourself on Greekrank dot com. Doesn’t appear much has changed from my day. Some good, lots of cringe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two of my girls were in sororities at UVA. They had a nice time, made some good friends, the girls all seemed very nice and put together, and now everyone is just fine and happy and gainfully employed. If you met my girls today you’d never peg them as “sorority types” — you’d think the opposite in fact. And that’s the point. You all are stereotyping to the extreme. Everyone is an individual and deserves to be treated and viewed as one.

I’m not gonna say you’re “just jealous” — but there’s definitely something living in your head on this issue.

If this is the case, why do we always see herds of sorority girls dressed almost identically? Your argument is making me laugh, because the point of Greek life appears to be conformity.

And there you go generalizing again.