What is the parenting secret of Orthodox Jewish families?

[Anonymous]

I genuinely wish I had been raised religious, had a big family, and embraced traditional motherhood. Instead I’m a “girl boss”. Ugh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I genuinely wish I had been raised religious, had a big family, and embraced traditional motherhood. Instead I’m a “girl boss”. Ugh.

Hopefully this was /s?

I am OP and have zero qualms about not embracing “traditional motherhood.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like Catholics, Mormons, and other religious groups with big families, they expect the older children (especially the older daughters, but sons too) to help. It’s a lot easier to handle a bunch of kids when the big ones change diapers, wipe noses, put on shoes, read books, etc.

+1. I saw a group at a playground yesterday and my first thought was "I bet they were really glad the first 2 kids were girls" because the older girls were doing a lovely job helping the little ones, while the two oldest boys ran around with sticks. Not that boys couldn't help, but the gender divisions are pretty strict with the way they are raised, so they wouldn't naturally be asked to.

At risk of being a gender essentialist … sometimes girls really like to interact with and mother their younger sibs. I wasn’t like that to an extreme but I definitely really loved taking care of my baby sister born when I was 12. And my 8 year old sister was extremely close to the baby and was constantly playing school etc.

Same. My parents were very anti gender roles and would have loved to dress me in unisex/boy clothing. I showed them! I only wore pink and dresses (still do). I was beyond thrilled to take care of my younger siblings (8 years younger). I was a nanny throughout high school and college. Sometimes it’s not how you’re raised, sometimes people just gravitate towards certain things. I see this with my own kids. I have one girl who is a tomboy and the other wants to be a princess. It’s nothing I did. Not all kids resent taking care of others, but I know some do of course. My son has lots and lots of chores and does the same ones as my girls. I’m not raising a boy who watches women work while he sits.

To answer op, I think the people who have large families know how to take care of them and also like kids. The same can’t be said for most moms. Also, none of those families practice gentle/permissive parenting. Even if they don’t spank, bad behavior is NOT accepted.

My permissive parenting friends let their kids do anything. The other day at a playdate my friends two kids started jumping on her couch and she let them. I told my kids no, don’t get up there too. The friend was shocked and said they weren’t hurting anything. Ffs. Kids need to learn how to respect everything.

As a non abusive Catholic mom of a big family, I agree with this. No gentle or permissive parenting of a large family. Privileges like screens and sweets and fun are EARNED not the baseline. Kids are brought up to respect the parents who are their natural authority (underneath God) and to contribute to the good of the family (God’s design and plan). My oldest who is 13 is a boy and he does not gravitate towards childcare or younger kids, but he is able to perform his role in the family to look after his younger siblings and guide them as God designed for him (due to his birth order).

Does that make sense? It’s a different way of looking at the world than secular culture which does contribute to child behavior imo. Plus, 90 mins a week of mass with no entertainment and only boredom and hymns and liturgy does help forge self control and self restraint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like Catholics, Mormons, and other religious groups with big families, they expect the older children (especially the older daughters, but sons too) to help. It’s a lot easier to handle a bunch of kids when the big ones change diapers, wipe noses, put on shoes, read books, etc.

+1. I saw a group at a playground yesterday and my first thought was "I bet they were really glad the first 2 kids were girls" because the older girls were doing a lovely job helping the little ones, while the two oldest boys ran around with sticks. Not that boys couldn't help, but the gender divisions are pretty strict with the way they are raised, so they wouldn't naturally be asked to.

At risk of being a gender essentialist … sometimes girls really like to interact with and mother their younger sibs. I wasn’t like that to an extreme but I definitely really loved taking care of my baby sister born when I was 12. And my 8 year old sister was extremely close to the baby and was constantly playing school etc.

Same. My parents were very anti gender roles and would have loved to dress me in unisex/boy clothing. I showed them! I only wore pink and dresses (still do). I was beyond thrilled to take care of my younger siblings (8 years younger). I was a nanny throughout high school and college. Sometimes it’s not how you’re raised, sometimes people just gravitate towards certain things. I see this with my own kids. I have one girl who is a tomboy and the other wants to be a princess. It’s nothing I did. Not all kids resent taking care of others, but I know some do of course. My son has lots and lots of chores and does the same ones as my girls. I’m not raising a boy who watches women work while he sits.

To answer op, I think the people who have large families know how to take care of them and also like kids. The same can’t be said for most moms. Also, none of those families practice gentle/permissive parenting. Even if they don’t spank, bad behavior is NOT accepted.

My permissive parenting friends let their kids do anything. The other day at a playdate my friends two kids started jumping on her couch and she let them. I told my kids no, don’t get up there too. The friend was shocked and said they weren’t hurting anything. Ffs. Kids need to learn how to respect everything.

You ONLY wear pink?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like Catholics, Mormons, and other religious groups with big families, they expect the older children (especially the older daughters, but sons too) to help. It’s a lot easier to handle a bunch of kids when the big ones change diapers, wipe noses, put on shoes, read books, etc.

+1. I saw a group at a playground yesterday and my first thought was "I bet they were really glad the first 2 kids were girls" because the older girls were doing a lovely job helping the little ones, while the two oldest boys ran around with sticks. Not that boys couldn't help, but the gender divisions are pretty strict with the way they are raised, so they wouldn't naturally be asked to.

At risk of being a gender essentialist … sometimes girls really like to interact with and mother their younger sibs. I wasn’t like that to an extreme but I definitely really loved taking care of my baby sister born when I was 12. And my 8 year old sister was extremely close to the baby and was constantly playing school etc.

Same. My parents were very anti gender roles and would have loved to dress me in unisex/boy clothing. I showed them! I only wore pink and dresses (still do). I was beyond thrilled to take care of my younger siblings (8 years younger). I was a nanny throughout high school and college. Sometimes it’s not how you’re raised, sometimes people just gravitate towards certain things. I see this with my own kids. I have one girl who is a tomboy and the other wants to be a princess. It’s nothing I did. Not all kids resent taking care of others, but I know some do of course. My son has lots and lots of chores and does the same ones as my girls. I’m not raising a boy who watches women work while he sits.

To answer op, I think the people who have large families know how to take care of them and also like kids. The same can’t be said for most moms. Also, none of those families practice gentle/permissive parenting. Even if they don’t spank, bad behavior is NOT accepted.

My permissive parenting friends let their kids do anything. The other day at a playdate my friends two kids started jumping on her couch and she let them. I told my kids no, don’t get up there too. The friend was shocked and said they weren’t hurting anything. Ffs. Kids need to learn how to respect everything.

You ONLY wear pink?

Elle Woods in the hooouuusssee!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, they’ve probably never seen a screen/ipad in their life. Unless their mom is “influencer”

What makes you say that? They have electronics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I genuinely wish I had been raised religious, had a big family, and embraced traditional motherhood. Instead I’m a “girl boss”. Ugh.

I was the oldest girl in a large religious family. My parents used corporal punishment frequently and I did a lot of childcare and had a lot of household responsibilities (cooking, cleaning). Our religion taught that there would be terrible consequences for not obeying, so I did. As an agnostic adult, I love my parents but in my own small, secular family, I have a kind of relationship and connection to my children that I never would have thought possible in my childhood. It is a transcendent love that is far beyond anything religion ever brought me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, they’ve probably never seen a screen/ipad in their life. Unless their mom is “influencer”

Could be! I also wonder if there are just better developed parenting skills in the community since most families are large, and children are considered a blessing so they are treated with more care? I obviously am also familiar with the criticisms of orthodox communities, but you never really hear of child abuse or neglect being a big part of that.

That’s because you aren’t close enough. A good friend of mine is a social worker in an Orthodox community (and she is Orthodox herself) - they have everything. You name it, they’ve got it. It might look a bit different though because the cultural norms are different. One not uncommon story is a mentally ill parent that is pretty much checked out, but propped up by the birth family just enough to not completely unravel. All to not ruin the kids’ chances at a decent marriage match.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, they’ve probably never seen a screen/ipad in their life. Unless their mom is “influencer”

Could be! I also wonder if there are just better developed parenting skills in the community since most families are large, and children are considered a blessing so they are treated with more care? I obviously am also familiar with the criticisms of orthodox communities, but you never really hear of child abuse or neglect being a big part of that.

Some would argue that forcing kids to perform parental duties for siblings is a form of abuse or neglect -- older daughters in Orthodox families do not really have childhoods because they will be helping to raise younger siblings from the age if 2 or 3. Also many Orthodox families home school or send to strict orthodox schools where girls do not receive adequate education. Orthodox communities also sometimes neglect what many of us would consider basic medical care for children.

To be clear -- not all Orthodox families are like this. But one of the major downsides to a very strict culture closed to outside influence is that it does allow for abuse and neglect to happen more easily.

You got the gender wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think being serious about religion requires a lot of self- discipline. So it could be that religious parents have self-discipline and their children are more likely to be self-disciplined as well.
The other aspect is that these families have a strong culture and exist a little bit outside of mainstream American culture. So while I am sure they are influenced by parenting trends in pop culture, they likely also receive a lot of community support for parenting more or less like their parents did.

If all the women have 8 kids - what kind of support would be available? Oh, I'll watch 16 kids while you get your hair done?

Not sure if you know that, but Orthodox Jews do not drive on Saturdays or holidays. And don’t use the phone.

The practical significance of that is that your community is all within walking distance. If not your parents and siblings, then your cousins or in-laws, or friends are within walking distance, and there are lots of them. And everyone knows and talks to everyone because at least once a week you see them all outside. The kids are being raised by the village, and on Saturdays they often roam from house to house because - no phone, so they get socialized in community minded way very early.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like Catholics, Mormons, and other religious groups with big families, they expect the older children (especially the older daughters, but sons too) to help. It’s a lot easier to handle a bunch of kids when the big ones change diapers, wipe noses, put on shoes, read books, etc.

It is not the responsibility of older children to take care of their siblings. it is a form of child abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like Catholics, Mormons, and other religious groups with big families, they expect the older children (especially the older daughters, but sons too) to help. It’s a lot easier to handle a bunch of kids when the big ones change diapers, wipe noses, put on shoes, read books, etc.

+1. I saw a group at a playground yesterday and my first thought was "I bet they were really glad the first 2 kids were girls" because the older girls were doing a lovely job helping the little ones, while the two oldest boys ran around with sticks. Not that boys couldn't help, but the gender divisions are pretty strict with the way they are raised, so they wouldn't naturally be asked to.

Palm to forehead. This is what happens when the broader culture knows nothing of raising children.
Children- males and females, but most especially females- LIKE doting on younger children. It’s *natural* even if they are NEVER asked to. How do I know? I have five kids and was so afraid of the allegation of “parentification” that I hired au pairs. But the older kids WANT to help just like you WANTED to have children. It’s human and good to have a desiring toward care for the more vulnerable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like Catholics, Mormons, and other religious groups with big families, they expect the older children (especially the older daughters, but sons too) to help. It’s a lot easier to handle a bunch of kids when the big ones change diapers, wipe noses, put on shoes, read books, etc.

It is not the responsibility of older children to take care of their siblings. it is a form of child abuse.

If it is made *their* responsibility * elusively*. Look up parentification. Otherwise it’s no different then telling them to wash the dishes or so their homework.

[Anonymous]

You got the gender wrong.

+1
In Orthodox Judaism boys attend yeshivas in which they spend most of their time sudying the Talmud. At many they are taught no English, science, or history and minimal math. New York State has been battling yeshivas about this for years. See eg https://www.timesunion.com/education/article/hudson-valley-yeshivas-expect-loss-funding-20229542.php They are educated as if each and every one of them will become a rabbi. Of course, there aren't enough congregations for all of them to do this, so it kind of turns into the Hunger Games in the quest to be one of the lucky ones.

Girls, believe it or not, are given a better secular education. They are generally regarded as inferior to men and therefore incapable of understanding the Talmud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think being serious about religion requires a lot of self- discipline. So it could be that religious parents have self-discipline and their children are more likely to be self-disciplined as well.
The other aspect is that these families have a strong culture and exist a little bit outside of mainstream American culture. So while I am sure they are influenced by parenting trends in pop culture, they likely also receive a lot of community support for parenting more or less like their parents did.

If all the women have 8 kids - what kind of support would be available? Oh, I'll watch 16 kids while you get your hair done?

Getting their hair done? Tell me you know nothing about Orthodox Judaism without telling me you know nothing about Orthodox Judaism.

They wear expensive wigs or hair coverings.