Doctors, hospitals and abortions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why they didn’t at least get her started on IV antibiotics? At least fight the infection. But yes ultimately the GOP is the root cause.

They did. She was on IV antibiotics and a medication to try to counteract her dangerously low blood pressure. But none of that helps if you don't remove the root cause of the sepsis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why they didn’t at least get her started on IV antibiotics? At least fight the infection. But yes ultimately the GOP is the root cause.

They did. She was on IV antibiotics and a medication to try to counteract her dangerously low blood pressure. But none of that helps if you don't remove the root cause of the sepsis.

You mean God's precious gift

[Anonymous]

How we can have advanced medical technology to literally save lives and Republicans are refusing to allow people to use it....... They would love for everything to go back to the stone ages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the first of what are likely many similar cases that will end up coming to light.
Investigation into maternal deaths takes time. Some states (i.e., TX) now have a vested interest in not actively pursuing investigations and studies in maternal mortality rates. And some families will be hesitant to come forward publicly about their losses.
Already, there are multiple stories of women who have suffered permanent loss of fertility due to lack of appropriate medical care. At least one or 2 of the women involved in the lawsuit down in TX ended up needing hysterectomies due to hemorrhage and/or sepsis.

This is what is so confusing and infuriating in these cases. Why exactly is the care being delayed? Is it because the fetus still has a heartbeat? Sepsis and hemorrhage are both medical emergencies and time is of the essence. The mother's life is potentially on the line so why would a doctor not take immediate action? Even if the fetus has a heartbeat it won't have one for much longer is no care is provided resulting in the mother's death.

NO. IT IS BECAUSE DOCTORS CAN BE HELD LIABLE FOR ASSISTING JN AN ABORTION.

MISCARRIAGES SOMETIMES LOOK LIKE AN UNSUCCESSFUL ABORTION.

SOMETIMES DOCTORS ARE PRESENTED WITH AN UNSUCCESSFUL ABORTION.

MANY MANY OTHER THINGS CAN GO WRONG IN PREGNANCY AND IT IS NOT ALWAYS CLEAR IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION WHAT THE CAUSE IS.

DO YOU REALLY NOT UNDERSTAND THIS?!?

Different poster, but what I don't understand about this specific case is they KNEW they needed to intervene, and delayed. It was clear cut intervention, and fast intervention, was needed, or she would die. They decided to not intervene until later, and she died. Meanwhile GOP could still prosecute because they did intervene.

You’re trying to rationalize the thought-process of monsters who want to force cameras into a woman’s “stomach” so she is forced to see the fetus before an abortion. That’s who is making the decisions. Morons in political office thinking babies are carried in the stomach.

No, there is no excuse for the GOP thinking and no rationalization. I am asking why Doctors are rationalizing murdering patients based on GOP rationalization. I understand they don't want to go to jail and that obviously rendering life saving care should not result in a jail sentence. The facts are still the same: They did not render care, knowing their patient would die. It is murder.

Nope. Signed, a nurse. If you don’t want more such deaths, vote blue.

Anyone who cares about this issue is voting blue already.

I can sense in some of these plaintive forced birther whines (not yours; the other posts on this board that are) that they’re very close to grasping the truth: that it’s not about “life,” it’s about gross old men controlling the bodies, and thus the lives, of all women. It doesn’t matter if they think they’re a “good girl” who won’t “need” one of those abortions, they think if push comes to shove, they’ll get the care they need when it’s time for them to have kids.

They need to get to the point of understanding that the contempt for women held by their fellow forced birthers is universal to all women, “good” or “bad” and all women will be well and truly effed if the GOP wins.

Not sure who you are referring to because I've not seen a single "pro life" comment on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Sadly in those states, OBs and residents are not going to those states. They are already seeing the numbers of doctors decreasing in places where it was already difficult to get care. People are flocking to TX yet doctors are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"how a doctor weighs legal repercussions from the new law "

1. Old OBs retire.

2. New doctors avoid OB

3. Women endure pregnancy without medical suport.

This is what will happen. OBs already have the highest malpractice insurance of all doctors. It’s hard enough to find people willing to take the normal risks that come with the work. This will just be one more reason to avoid the field.

An OBGYN once told me that OBGYNs either love or hate women. Guess which ones will still be practicing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How we can have advanced medical technology to literally save lives and Republicans are refusing to allow people to use it....... They would love for everything to go back to the stone ages.

They are freakin sadists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How we can have advanced medical technology to literally save lives and Republicans are refusing to allow people to use it....... They would love for everything to go back to the stone ages.

They are freakin sadists.

The cruelty is the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"how a doctor weighs legal repercussions from the new law "

1. Old OBs retire.

2. New doctors avoid OB

3. Women endure pregnancy without medical suport.

This is what will happen. OBs already have the highest malpractice insurance of all doctors. It’s hard enough to find people willing to take the normal risks that come with the work. This will just be one more reason to avoid the field.

An OBGYN once told me that OBGYNs either love or hate women. Guess which ones will still be practicing?

Yikes, that's jarring to see. I can see it, just jarring to see it so starkly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the first of what are likely many similar cases that will end up coming to light.
Investigation into maternal deaths takes time. Some states (i.e., TX) now have a vested interest in not actively pursuing investigations and studies in maternal mortality rates. And some families will be hesitant to come forward publicly about their losses.
Already, there are multiple stories of women who have suffered permanent loss of fertility due to lack of appropriate medical care. At least one or 2 of the women involved in the lawsuit down in TX ended up needing hysterectomies due to hemorrhage and/or sepsis.

This is what is so confusing and infuriating in these cases. Why exactly is the care being delayed? Is it because the fetus still has a heartbeat? Sepsis and hemorrhage are both medical emergencies and time is of the essence. The mother's life is potentially on the line so why would a doctor not take immediate action? Even if the fetus has a heartbeat it won't have one for much longer is no care is provided resulting in the mother's death.

You answered your own question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the first of what are likely many similar cases that will end up coming to light.
Investigation into maternal deaths takes time. Some states (i.e., TX) now have a vested interest in not actively pursuing investigations and studies in maternal mortality rates. And some families will be hesitant to come forward publicly about their losses.
Already, there are multiple stories of women who have suffered permanent loss of fertility due to lack of appropriate medical care. At least one or 2 of the women involved in the lawsuit down in TX ended up needing hysterectomies due to hemorrhage and/or sepsis.

This is what is so confusing and infuriating in these cases. Why exactly is the care being delayed? Is it because the fetus still has a heartbeat? Sepsis and hemorrhage are both medical emergencies and time is of the essence. The mother's life is potentially on the line so why would a doctor not take immediate action? Even if the fetus has a heartbeat it won't have one for much longer is no care is provided resulting in the mother's death.

I wonder this too. How can someone who swore an oath actually let a patient die, knowingly? It should be considered homicide.

This is where providers are screwed either way. Once again, the DA who reviews abortion cases that hospitals are required to report, is not a medical expert. So a doctor must weigh how sick a woman is becoming vs. their own risk of losing their license. Red states have made it very clear that they are ready to prosecute any perceived misstep by a physician.

Which is why younger doctors and med students are simply bypassing these states on their match process, and others have left, or are leaving. The net impact will be reduced medical care across the board in these states, not just women's health.

Interestingly ER docs are also leaving at a high rate post Dobbs. I have not seen an explanation as to why, but assume it’s because they triage and offer initial care for medical emergencies related to pregnancies coming into the ER and can be put in the same positions as OBs.

And quit getting angry at doctors. I’m a lawyer. If the MD in one of these states is my client in one of these states, my ethical obligation to to keep the from being fined, jailed or from losing their license. I have no attorney-client relationship with their patient. And, I would tell them it must be 100% certain this woman will die unless they act immediately and that documented 7 ways to Sunday with every possible tests, even if added tests slow them down and aren’t really necessary. If they think the woman will live if they wait two hours, they wait.

Doctors can’t they can’t win here. No one goes into OB/Gyn care to let omen and babies die preventable deaths. No one. On one side they have losing their medical license, huge fines and in some states being charged with first degree murder. On the other side is a malpractice claim. And they have insurance for malpractice. So when weighing risks, it’s safer to risk malpractice than jail. That’s what the attorney tells the doctor. Anything else is malpractice by the attorney.

What the doctor does with that advice is up to them. But, doctor is a person with a career and a family too. Why is he under an obligation to commit an illegal act and go to jail? If that’s where he is at morally, okay. But there are career and even life as a free person ending consequences. And the person going behind him and reviewing the file isn’t the medical board or an MD. It’s a lawyer.

So yeah, essential decisions on standard of care have been handed over to hospital and private lawyers advising doctors in the red states. That should terrify you. Unless you think I’m in some way qualified to make that decision with my English major and one year of high school Bio.

But quit blasting MDs and start blasting state legislatures that have laws that prevent MDs from saving dying women because the state decides to punish them for self managing an abortion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the first of what are likely many similar cases that will end up coming to light.
Investigation into maternal deaths takes time. Some states (i.e., TX) now have a vested interest in not actively pursuing investigations and studies in maternal mortality rates. And some families will be hesitant to come forward publicly about their losses.
Already, there are multiple stories of women who have suffered permanent loss of fertility due to lack of appropriate medical care. At least one or 2 of the women involved in the lawsuit down in TX ended up needing hysterectomies due to hemorrhage and/or sepsis.

This is what is so confusing and infuriating in these cases. Why exactly is the care being delayed? Is it because the fetus still has a heartbeat? Sepsis and hemorrhage are both medical emergencies and time is of the essence. The mother's life is potentially on the line so why would a doctor not take immediate action? Even if the fetus has a heartbeat it won't have one for much longer is no care is provided resulting in the mother's death.

But the law that allows exceptions for the 'health' in these states also then allows the DA to have access to records of each abortion for their review. The DA is not a doctor. Perhaps they disagree that the woman is 'septic enough'...Maybe her BP dropped but she is maintaining it for the time being with fluids, so they wait until that doesn't work anymore.

Each decision for the doctor means weighing how sick the woman is against their risk of losing their license. It's an impossible situation.

+1. And say there are 150 OBs the metro Atlanta area. And each one sticks their neck out to perform an abortion a few hours too early on a septic woman and loses their license and goes to jail that’s 150 women they saved. But millions who now have no pre-natal care. Maybe quit threatening doctors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the first of what are likely many similar cases that will end up coming to light.
Investigation into maternal deaths takes time. Some states (i.e., TX) now have a vested interest in not actively pursuing investigations and studies in maternal mortality rates. And some families will be hesitant to come forward publicly about their losses.
Already, there are multiple stories of women who have suffered permanent loss of fertility due to lack of appropriate medical care. At least one or 2 of the women involved in the lawsuit down in TX ended up needing hysterectomies due to hemorrhage and/or sepsis.

This is what is so confusing and infuriating in these cases. Why exactly is the care being delayed? Is it because the fetus still has a heartbeat? Sepsis and hemorrhage are both medical emergencies and time is of the essence. The mother's life is potentially on the line so why would a doctor not take immediate action? Even if the fetus has a heartbeat it won't have one for much longer is no care is provided resulting in the mother's death.

NO. IT IS BECAUSE DOCTORS CAN BE HELD LIABLE FOR ASSISTING JN AN ABORTION.

MISCARRIAGES SOMETIMES LOOK LIKE AN UNSUCCESSFUL ABORTION.

SOMETIMES DOCTORS ARE PRESENTED WITH AN UNSUCCESSFUL ABORTION.

MANY MANY OTHER THINGS CAN GO WRONG IN PREGNANCY AND IT IS NOT ALWAYS CLEAR IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION WHAT THE CAUSE IS.

DO YOU REALLY NOT UNDERSTAND THIS?!?

Different poster, but what I don't understand about this specific case is they KNEW they needed to intervene, and delayed. It was clear cut intervention, and fast intervention, was needed, or she would die. They decided to not intervene until later, and she died. Meanwhile GOP could still prosecute because they did intervene.

You’re trying to rationalize the thought-process of monsters who want to force cameras into a woman’s “stomach” so she is forced to see the fetus before an abortion. That’s who is making the decisions. Morons in political office thinking babies are carried in the stomach.

No, there is no excuse for the GOP thinking and no rationalization. I am asking why Doctors are rationalizing murdering patients based on GOP rationalization. I understand they don't want to go to jail and that obviously rendering life saving care should not result in a jail sentence. The facts are still the same: They did not render care, knowing their patient would die. It is murder.

No they waited to render care until the last possible second, when it was 100% clear she would die without it— WHICH IS WHAT THE LAW REQUIRES— and they misjudged by half an hour. You think the doctor feels good about this outcome?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most Doctors do not want to perform abortions and this has been the reality for decades.

Very few MDs who choose obstetrics have a problem performing a D&C when it’s medically necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the first of what are likely many similar cases that will end up coming to light.
Investigation into maternal deaths takes time. Some states (i.e., TX) now have a vested interest in not actively pursuing investigations and studies in maternal mortality rates. And some families will be hesitant to come forward publicly about their losses.
Already, there are multiple stories of women who have suffered permanent loss of fertility due to lack of appropriate medical care. At least one or 2 of the women involved in the lawsuit down in TX ended up needing hysterectomies due to hemorrhage and/or sepsis.

This is what is so confusing and infuriating in these cases. Why exactly is the care being delayed? Is it because the fetus still has a heartbeat? Sepsis and hemorrhage are both medical emergencies and time is of the essence. The mother's life is potentially on the line so why would a doctor not take immediate action? Even if the fetus has a heartbeat it won't have one for much longer is no care is provided resulting in the mother's death.

You answered your own question.

Yes, girl bosses! Slay!… yourself! You’re worth less than the contents of your uterus, even if it never developed a fetal pole or even if it’s technically a tumor as in a molar pregnancy! Go ahead and die, B! There’s a potential that the contents of your uterus might be male. You owe men - real bosses! - every chance to be born, so die!

/s, but evidently how forced birthers think