Doctors, hospitals and abortions

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Absolutely disgusting that this is where we are as a society.

+1

[Anonymous]

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You also cannot keep up your skills if you are doing them infrequently. This is a very real thing in surgical procedures, and you cannot maintain your hospital credentialling to perform surgical procedures if you aren't able to do a certain number every year.

Many weren't trained in the first place.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article...ii/S0010782413007452
One 2013 survey found that out of 161 physician residency programs across the United States, only half provided abortion training as part of their standard curriculum. (Some programs have “opt-in” option outside of the routine training.)



https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/ob...ns-report-rcna164479
In states that restrict abortion, some OB-GYN residents have to rely on textbooks in lieu of observing an abortion firsthand or simulate the procedure using a piece of fruit.

“You can tell who has done it and who has learned it from a book,” one residency director said in the report. “There is a gap in how they’d manage patients.”

Lappen said residents who don’t receive sufficient training might not develop expertise about how to manage situations like miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies or may lack the skills to quickly intervene in life-threatening emergencies when an abortion is medically necessary.

“Abortion care can be the fastest way to save someone’s life, and the easiest way to save someone’s life” in certain cases, he said. “That skill set is really, incredibly important and there are parts of the country where it currently is in significant shortage or may not exist.”



https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/27/health/abo...idency-programs.html
Many medical residency programs that are educating the next generation of obstetricians and gynecologists are facing a treacherous choice.

If they continue to provide abortion training in states where the procedure is now outlawed, they could be prosecuted. If they don’t offer it, they risk losing their accreditation, which in turn would render their residents ineligible to receive specialty board certification and imperil recruitment of faculty and medical students.

This training also involves learning how to do D&Cs. So keep that in mind next time you or someone you know needs a D&C due to incomplete miscarriage, abnormal uterine bleeding, or any other of a number of reasons a D&C might be warranted.
If doctors aren't receiving proper training on these procedures, they also can't care for women who need them for reasons outside of an elective abortion, either.

Should young women plan to have their babies and raise their families in pro choice states? The care and outcomes will be increasingly superior in pro choice states.

DP. My company has another office in TX, and there's absolutely no way I would consider a move there...and I'm in my mid-40s.
This lack of appropriate healthcare will eventually affect ALL women in these states, not just those of childbearing age.

Okay then don’t move, simple as that! Young women would do whatever they please to do

Why the anger? It’s almost like you know you are on the losing side of this.

We’re coming for you in November.

They want abortion banned in every state so that doctors stop fleeing red states because of these laws. It's becoming a real problem for red states to find doctors and everyone (even men) are suffering from lack of care. It's what they deserve TBH

Are they going to pass laws that you cannot leave the country if you have medical training? Because a lot of countries have shortages of doctors right now.

You can't force anyone to live in your state Texas. If you want to attract young docs to your state, allow them to practice modern medicine instead of imposing backwards, draconian, doctor repelling laws.

NP- I am really fed up by people here who think they are superior because they are blue voters in blue states. Guess what? I am a blue voter in a red state, and a woman. There are many of us. Some of us can't leave. and some of us choose to stay and vote to change things. It's very easy staying home safe in blue states with zero skin in the game, ranting about GOP, saying "oh I'd NEVER move there" and absolutely horrific things like "it's what they deserve" when Democrat women in red states exist, and we are both the victims AND the solution, and all too aware of the current situation and danger.

I'm not a Dem, but I lean left. Most people look at you as a fighter, specifically because you're in a sea of red. The anger will never be towards you because you're doing what you can do, it's towards the majority within your state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You also cannot keep up your skills if you are doing them infrequently. This is a very real thing in surgical procedures, and you cannot maintain your hospital credentialling to perform surgical procedures if you aren't able to do a certain number every year.

Many weren't trained in the first place.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article...ii/S0010782413007452
One 2013 survey found that out of 161 physician residency programs across the United States, only half provided abortion training as part of their standard curriculum. (Some programs have “opt-in” option outside of the routine training.)



https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/ob...ns-report-rcna164479
In states that restrict abortion, some OB-GYN residents have to rely on textbooks in lieu of observing an abortion firsthand or simulate the procedure using a piece of fruit.

“You can tell who has done it and who has learned it from a book,” one residency director said in the report. “There is a gap in how they’d manage patients.”

Lappen said residents who don’t receive sufficient training might not develop expertise about how to manage situations like miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies or may lack the skills to quickly intervene in life-threatening emergencies when an abortion is medically necessary.

“Abortion care can be the fastest way to save someone’s life, and the easiest way to save someone’s life” in certain cases, he said. “That skill set is really, incredibly important and there are parts of the country where it currently is in significant shortage or may not exist.”



https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/27/health/abo...idency-programs.html
Many medical residency programs that are educating the next generation of obstetricians and gynecologists are facing a treacherous choice.

If they continue to provide abortion training in states where the procedure is now outlawed, they could be prosecuted. If they don’t offer it, they risk losing their accreditation, which in turn would render their residents ineligible to receive specialty board certification and imperil recruitment of faculty and medical students.

This training also involves learning how to do D&Cs. So keep that in mind next time you or someone you know needs a D&C due to incomplete miscarriage, abnormal uterine bleeding, or any other of a number of reasons a D&C might be warranted.
If doctors aren't receiving proper training on these procedures, they also can't care for women who need them for reasons outside of an elective abortion, either.

Should young women plan to have their babies and raise their families in pro choice states? The care and outcomes will be increasingly superior in pro choice states.

DP. My company has another office in TX, and there's absolutely no way I would consider a move there...and I'm in my mid-40s.
This lack of appropriate healthcare will eventually affect ALL women in these states, not just those of childbearing age.

Okay then don’t move, simple as that! Young women would do whatever they please to do

Why the anger? It’s almost like you know you are on the losing side of this.

We’re coming for you in November.

They want abortion banned in every state so that doctors stop fleeing red states because of these laws. It's becoming a real problem for red states to find doctors and everyone (even men) are suffering from lack of care. It's what they deserve TBH

Are they going to pass laws that you cannot leave the country if you have medical training? Because a lot of countries have shortages of doctors right now.

You can't force anyone to live in your state Texas. If you want to attract young docs to your state, allow them to practice modern medicine instead of imposing backwards, draconian, doctor repelling laws.

NP- I am really fed up by people here who think they are superior because they are blue voters in blue states. Guess what? I am a blue voter in a red state, and a woman. There are many of us. Some of us can't leave. and some of us choose to stay and vote to change things. It's very easy staying home safe in blue states with zero skin in the game, ranting about GOP, saying "oh I'd NEVER move there" and absolutely horrific things like "it's what they deserve" when Democrat women in red states exist, and we are both the victims AND the solution, and all too aware of the current situation and danger.

Your anger is very weirdly misplaced and this is the second abortion thread in which someone who claims to be “blue” or who “supports abortion rights” has popped off completely unprovoked. It feels… intentional.

Meanwhile if the GOP wins they plan to make abortion at all stages and for every reason illegal across the country, and then they’ll go after birth control next.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Doctors misdiagnose sepsis often. I can literally think of dozens of cases reported on the local news, none of which occurred in pregnant women but all of which resulted in death. Mostly children, the elderly, and immunocompromized people. It’s not an abortion issue.

It's both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Practicing medicine is also not the same as it used to be. Physicians are told repeatedly -- here and elsewhere, repeatedly -- that there is nothing extraordinary or special about a doctor's job, that they are just like mechanics who work for you, that it's just business.

Many doctors hear you and believe you. It's just a job, nothing special or with extraordinary responsibility. You wouldn't expect a mechanic to risk jail, even a lifelong sentence, to work on your car, would you? That would be crazy.

I have never heard this. What I have heard is criticism of the “god complex”. There’s a TON of space in between “not special” and “god.”

Oh yeah, that too. It's a convincing package. Just a job, not anything special. Go home when the clock strikes five -- if people don't like how you run your business, they can go to another mechanic.

Win-win for everyone.

Ben Carson, is that you? Are you a troll, a narcissist, or both? Because anything less than treating you like a god is an insult. Weird.

So, what are some ways in which the practice of medicine and doctors are special that you don't consider "treating you like a god?" Because I haven't heard any actual acknowledgment of how this works, just criticisms. If you could list them, maybe I am misunderstanding you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Practicing medicine is also not the same as it used to be. Physicians are told repeatedly -- here and elsewhere, repeatedly -- that there is nothing extraordinary or special about a doctor's job, that they are just like mechanics who work for you, that it's just business.

Many doctors hear you and believe you. It's just a job, nothing special or with extraordinary responsibility. You wouldn't expect a mechanic to risk jail, even a lifelong sentence, to work on your car, would you? That would be crazy.

I have never heard this. What I have heard is criticism of the “god complex”. There’s a TON of space in between “not special” and “god.”

Oh yeah, that too. It's a convincing package. Just a job, not anything special. Go home when the clock strikes five -- if people don't like how you run your business, they can go to another mechanic.

Win-win for everyone.

Ben Carson, is that you? Are you a troll, a narcissist, or both? Because anything less than treating you like a god is an insult. Weird.

So, what are some ways in which the practice of medicine and doctors are special that you don't consider "treating you like a god?" Because I haven't heard any actual acknowledgment of how this works, just criticisms. If you could list them, maybe I am misunderstanding you.

This is easy for most of us to understand. Gods are magical, infallible, and all powerful. If you’re not a troll, you’re a mentally unstable doctor. Hopefully a pathologist so you’re not dealing with live people. Since this is also off topic, this will be the last time I engage you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Practicing medicine is also not the same as it used to be. Physicians are told repeatedly -- here and elsewhere, repeatedly -- that there is nothing extraordinary or special about a doctor's job, that they are just like mechanics who work for you, that it's just business.

Many doctors hear you and believe you. It's just a job, nothing special or with extraordinary responsibility. You wouldn't expect a mechanic to risk jail, even a lifelong sentence, to work on your car, would you? That would be crazy.

I have never heard this. What I have heard is criticism of the “god complex”. There’s a TON of space in between “not special” and “god.”

Oh yeah, that too. It's a convincing package. Just a job, not anything special. Go home when the clock strikes five -- if people don't like how you run your business, they can go to another mechanic.

Win-win for everyone.

Ben Carson, is that you? Are you a troll, a narcissist, or both? Because anything less than treating you like a god is an insult. Weird.

So, what are some ways in which the practice of medicine and doctors are special that you don't consider "treating you like a god?" Because I haven't heard any actual acknowledgment of how this works, just criticisms. If you could list them, maybe I am misunderstanding you.

This is easy for most of us to understand. Gods are magical, infallible, and all powerful. If you’re not a troll, you’re a mentally unstable doctor. Hopefully a pathologist so you’re not dealing with live people. Since this is also off topic, this will be the last time I engage you.

An illustrative example, and par for the course.

Good day to you, and a sincere wish that you are not affected by the draconian anti-woman laws from the GOP and having to rely on the physicians you dislike so much to risk their livelihoods, their freedom from jail, and their ability to care for other patients in order to save you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Donald Trump did this indeed. What a brave woman. What a blight on our country that this is the reality for girls a women in 2024.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Doctors misdiagnose sepsis often. I can literally think of dozens of cases reported on the local news, none of which occurred in pregnant women but all of which resulted in death. Mostly children, the elderly, and immunocompromized people. It’s not an abortion issue.

What a weird thing to state. Sepsis absolutely can and does happen in miscarrying pregnancies.

Please read up on this famous case that turned the tide in Ireland and eventually led to the legalization of abortion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doctors misdiagnose sepsis often. I can literally think of dozens of cases reported on the local news, none of which occurred in pregnant women but all of which resulted in death. Mostly children, the elderly, and immunocompromized people. It’s not an abortion issue.

What a weird thing to state. Sepsis absolutely can and does happen in miscarrying pregnancies.

Please read up on this famous case that turned the tide in Ireland and eventually led to the legalization of abortion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

+1

Sepsis in pregnancy mostly went away when abortion became legal. I guess Republicans really felt more pain and torment was needed.

[Anonymous]

The tell here is that abortions go down with good, clear, accurate sex ed and access to effective contraception. But it's not really about decreasing abortions, because then anti-abortion zealots would be all about sex ed and birth control.

It's about punishing women for having sex, and it's about keeping women pregnant and at home, out of the workplace. The crime for them isn't the abortion itself, not really -- it's about having the power over your own body whether to have (and enjoy) sex and the power to decide what happens after you do.

We could decrease so many abortions, both therapeutic and elective, by not standing in the way of women having the tools they need to limit pregnancy after having sex if they choose. And that's just by preventing fertilization, when that choice is made. But the GOP is against THAT, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The tell here is that abortions go down with good, clear, accurate sex ed and access to effective contraception. But it's not really about decreasing abortions, because then anti-abortion zealots would be all about sex ed and birth control.

It's about punishing women for having sex, and it's about keeping women pregnant and at home, out of the workplace. The crime for them isn't the abortion itself, not really -- it's about having the power over your own body whether to have (and enjoy) sex and the power to decide what happens after you do.

We could decrease so many abortions, both therapeutic and elective, by not standing in the way of women having the tools they need to limit pregnancy after having sex if they choose. And that's just by preventing fertilization, when that choice is made. But the GOP is against THAT, too.

Exactly. It’s not about abortion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The tell here is that abortions go down with good, clear, accurate sex ed and access to effective contraception. But it's not really about decreasing abortions, because then anti-abortion zealots would be all about sex ed and birth control.

It's about punishing women for having sex, and it's about keeping women pregnant and at home, out of the workplace. The crime for them isn't the abortion itself, not really -- it's about having the power over your own body whether to have (and enjoy) sex and the power to decide what happens after you do.

We could decrease so many abortions, both therapeutic and elective, by not standing in the way of women having the tools they need to limit pregnancy after having sex if they choose. And that's just by preventing fertilization, when that choice is made. But the GOP is against THAT, too.

Exactly. It’s not about abortion.

It’s about controlling women and putting them back into a second class status.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doctors misdiagnose sepsis often. I can literally think of dozens of cases reported on the local news, none of which occurred in pregnant women but all of which resulted in death. Mostly children, the elderly, and immunocompromized people. It’s not an abortion issue.

What a weird thing to state. Sepsis absolutely can and does happen in miscarrying pregnancies.

Please read up on this famous case that turned the tide in Ireland and eventually led to the legalization of abortion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

+1

Sepsis in pregnancy mostly went away when abortion became legal. I guess Republicans really felt more pain and torment was needed.

+1 There was a septic abortion ward in EVERY hospital prior to the legalization of abortion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doctors misdiagnose sepsis often. I can literally think of dozens of cases reported on the local news, none of which occurred in pregnant women but all of which resulted in death. Mostly children, the elderly, and immunocompromized people. It’s not an abortion issue.

What a weird thing to state. Sepsis absolutely can and does happen in miscarrying pregnancies.

Please read up on this famous case that turned the tide in Ireland and eventually led to the legalization of abortion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

+1

Sepsis in pregnancy mostly went away when abortion became legal. I guess Republicans really felt more pain and torment was needed.

+1 There was a septic abortion ward in EVERY hospital prior to the legalization of abortion.

Yes.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/allanwei...s-of-the-pre-roe-era

In 1972 I was a third-year medical student doing my first clinical experience in obstetrics and gynecology at Cook County Hospital, a large facility in inner-city Chicago.
...
At that time, Cook County had a 40-bed Septic Abortion Ward. It was a large room with the beds separated by curtains. The role of the medical student — my role for the week I was there — was to push a large cart of antibiotic solutions around the room, hang the antibiotics and connect them to the IV line, and take the patients' vital signs. When one of the patients died, I was to call the diener — the morgue attendant who collected the bodies. A death in this ward was a common occurrence.