Doctors, hospitals and abortions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the first of what are likely many similar cases that will end up coming to light.
Investigation into maternal deaths takes time. Some states (i.e., TX) now have a vested interest in not actively pursuing investigations and studies in maternal mortality rates. And some families will be hesitant to come forward publicly about their losses.
Already, there are multiple stories of women who have suffered permanent loss of fertility due to lack of appropriate medical care. At least one or 2 of the women involved in the lawsuit down in TX ended up needing hysterectomies due to hemorrhage and/or sepsis.

This is what is so confusing and infuriating in these cases. Why exactly is the care being delayed? Is it because the fetus still has a heartbeat? Sepsis and hemorrhage are both medical emergencies and time is of the essence. The mother's life is potentially on the line so why would a doctor not take immediate action? Even if the fetus has a heartbeat it won't have one for much longer is no care is provided resulting in the mother's death.

NO. IT IS BECAUSE DOCTORS CAN BE HELD LIABLE FOR ASSISTING JN AN ABORTION.

MISCARRIAGES SOMETIMES LOOK LIKE AN UNSUCCESSFUL ABORTION.

SOMETIMES DOCTORS ARE PRESENTED WITH AN UNSUCCESSFUL ABORTION.

MANY MANY OTHER THINGS CAN GO WRONG IN PREGNANCY AND IT IS NOT ALWAYS CLEAR IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION WHAT THE CAUSE IS.

DO YOU REALLY NOT UNDERSTAND THIS?!?

Different poster, but what I don't understand about this specific case is they KNEW they needed to intervene, and delayed. It was clear cut intervention, and fast intervention, was needed, or she would die. They decided to not intervene until later, and she died. Meanwhile GOP could still prosecute because they did intervene.

From the ProPublica article, citing information about the GA law:

"It prohibits doctors from using any instrument “with the purpose of terminating a pregnancy.” While removing fetal tissue is not terminating a pregnancy, medically speaking, the law only specifies it’s not considered an abortion to remove “a dead unborn child” that resulted from a “spontaneous abortion” defined as “naturally occurring” from a miscarriage or a stillbirth."

In other words, the wording of the associated exception in the GA law concerns intervening only in cases associated with an incomplete natural miscarriage, NOT an incomplete medical abortion.
I would assume they felt they couldn't act because she had already told them that her condition resulted from a failed medical abortion. Had she told them she was miscarrying naturally, they likely would have performed a D&C.

wtf. Back in the dinosaur ages when abortion was broadly criminal (with exceptions for the connected affluent who might be able to get a hospital abortion or a D&C for a "late" period) and it would routine for women to show up in ER's due to abortion complications, my understanding is they went ahead with medical treatment. Maybe because they saw it so often?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the first of what are likely many similar cases that will end up coming to light.
Investigation into maternal deaths takes time. Some states (i.e., TX) now have a vested interest in not actively pursuing investigations and studies in maternal mortality rates. And some families will be hesitant to come forward publicly about their losses.
Already, there are multiple stories of women who have suffered permanent loss of fertility due to lack of appropriate medical care. At least one or 2 of the women involved in the lawsuit down in TX ended up needing hysterectomies due to hemorrhage and/or sepsis.

This is what is so confusing and infuriating in these cases. Why exactly is the care being delayed? Is it because the fetus still has a heartbeat? Sepsis and hemorrhage are both medical emergencies and time is of the essence. The mother's life is potentially on the line so why would a doctor not take immediate action? Even if the fetus has a heartbeat it won't have one for much longer is no care is provided resulting in the mother's death.

NO. IT IS BECAUSE DOCTORS CAN BE HELD LIABLE FOR ASSISTING JN AN ABORTION.

MISCARRIAGES SOMETIMES LOOK LIKE AN UNSUCCESSFUL ABORTION.

SOMETIMES DOCTORS ARE PRESENTED WITH AN UNSUCCESSFUL ABORTION.

MANY MANY OTHER THINGS CAN GO WRONG IN PREGNANCY AND IT IS NOT ALWAYS CLEAR IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION WHAT THE CAUSE IS.

DO YOU REALLY NOT UNDERSTAND THIS?!?

Different poster, but what I don't understand about this specific case is they KNEW they needed to intervene, and delayed. It was clear cut intervention, and fast intervention, was needed, or she would die. They decided to not intervene until later, and she died. Meanwhile GOP could still prosecute because they did intervene.

From the ProPublica article, citing information about the GA law:

"It prohibits doctors from using any instrument “with the purpose of terminating a pregnancy.” While removing fetal tissue is not terminating a pregnancy, medically speaking, the law only specifies it’s not considered an abortion to remove “a dead unborn child” that resulted from a “spontaneous abortion” defined as “naturally occurring” from a miscarriage or a stillbirth."

In other words, the wording of the associated exception in the GA law concerns intervening only in cases associated with an incomplete natural miscarriage, NOT an incomplete medical abortion.
I would assume they felt they couldn't act because she had already told them that her condition resulted from a failed medical abortion. Had she told them she was miscarrying naturally, they likely would have performed a D&C.

wtf. Back in the dinosaur ages when abortion was broadly criminal (with exceptions for the connected affluent who might be able to get a hospital abortion or a D&C for a "late" period) and it would routine for women to show up in ER's due to abortion complications, my understanding is they went ahead with medical treatment. Maybe because they saw it so often?

Maybe because it wasn't politicized to the point where AGs and governors were running on going hard after doctors who performed them.

[Anonymous]

Practicing medicine is also not the same as it used to be. Physicians are told repeatedly -- here and elsewhere, repeatedly -- that there is nothing extraordinary or special about a doctor's job, that they are just like mechanics who work for you, that it's just business.

Many doctors hear you and believe you. It's just a job, nothing special or with extraordinary responsibility. You wouldn't expect a mechanic to risk jail, even a lifelong sentence, to work on your car, would you? That would be crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You also cannot keep up your skills if you are doing them infrequently. This is a very real thing in surgical procedures, and you cannot maintain your hospital credentialling to perform surgical procedures if you aren't able to do a certain number every year.

Many weren't trained in the first place.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article...ii/S0010782413007452
One 2013 survey found that out of 161 physician residency programs across the United States, only half provided abortion training as part of their standard curriculum. (Some programs have “opt-in” option outside of the routine training.)



https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/ob...ns-report-rcna164479
In states that restrict abortion, some OB-GYN residents have to rely on textbooks in lieu of observing an abortion firsthand or simulate the procedure using a piece of fruit.

“You can tell who has done it and who has learned it from a book,” one residency director said in the report. “There is a gap in how they’d manage patients.”

Lappen said residents who don’t receive sufficient training might not develop expertise about how to manage situations like miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies or may lack the skills to quickly intervene in life-threatening emergencies when an abortion is medically necessary.

“Abortion care can be the fastest way to save someone’s life, and the easiest way to save someone’s life” in certain cases, he said. “That skill set is really, incredibly important and there are parts of the country where it currently is in significant shortage or may not exist.”



https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/27/health/abo...idency-programs.html
Many medical residency programs that are educating the next generation of obstetricians and gynecologists are facing a treacherous choice.

If they continue to provide abortion training in states where the procedure is now outlawed, they could be prosecuted. If they don’t offer it, they risk losing their accreditation, which in turn would render their residents ineligible to receive specialty board certification and imperil recruitment of faculty and medical students.

This training also involves learning how to do D&Cs. So keep that in mind next time you or someone you know needs a D&C due to incomplete miscarriage, abnormal uterine bleeding, or any other of a number of reasons a D&C might be warranted.
If doctors aren't receiving proper training on these procedures, they also can't care for women who need them for reasons outside of an elective abortion, either.

Should young women plan to have their babies and raise their families in pro choice states? The care and outcomes will be increasingly superior in pro choice states.

DP. My company has another office in TX, and there's absolutely no way I would consider a move there...and I'm in my mid-40s.
This lack of appropriate healthcare will eventually affect ALL women in these states, not just those of childbearing age.

Okay then don’t move, simple as that! Young women would do whatever they please to do

Why the anger? It’s almost like you know you are on the losing side of this.

We’re coming for you in November.

They want abortion banned in every state so that doctors stop fleeing red states because of these laws. It's becoming a real problem for red states to find doctors and everyone (even men) are suffering from lack of care. It's what they deserve TBH

[Anonymous]

Red states are losing doctors because of this:

Anonymous wrote:Doctors are the enemy. They will eventually have no say in their decisions. Privacy will be a thing of the past.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You also cannot keep up your skills if you are doing them infrequently. This is a very real thing in surgical procedures, and you cannot maintain your hospital credentialling to perform surgical procedures if you aren't able to do a certain number every year.

Many weren't trained in the first place.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article...ii/S0010782413007452
One 2013 survey found that out of 161 physician residency programs across the United States, only half provided abortion training as part of their standard curriculum. (Some programs have “opt-in” option outside of the routine training.)



https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/ob...ns-report-rcna164479
In states that restrict abortion, some OB-GYN residents have to rely on textbooks in lieu of observing an abortion firsthand or simulate the procedure using a piece of fruit.

“You can tell who has done it and who has learned it from a book,” one residency director said in the report. “There is a gap in how they’d manage patients.”

Lappen said residents who don’t receive sufficient training might not develop expertise about how to manage situations like miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies or may lack the skills to quickly intervene in life-threatening emergencies when an abortion is medically necessary.

“Abortion care can be the fastest way to save someone’s life, and the easiest way to save someone’s life” in certain cases, he said. “That skill set is really, incredibly important and there are parts of the country where it currently is in significant shortage or may not exist.”



https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/27/health/abo...idency-programs.html
Many medical residency programs that are educating the next generation of obstetricians and gynecologists are facing a treacherous choice.

If they continue to provide abortion training in states where the procedure is now outlawed, they could be prosecuted. If they don’t offer it, they risk losing their accreditation, which in turn would render their residents ineligible to receive specialty board certification and imperil recruitment of faculty and medical students.

This training also involves learning how to do D&Cs. So keep that in mind next time you or someone you know needs a D&C due to incomplete miscarriage, abnormal uterine bleeding, or any other of a number of reasons a D&C might be warranted.
If doctors aren't receiving proper training on these procedures, they also can't care for women who need them for reasons outside of an elective abortion, either.

Should young women plan to have their babies and raise their families in pro choice states? The care and outcomes will be increasingly superior in pro choice states.

DP. My company has another office in TX, and there's absolutely no way I would consider a move there...and I'm in my mid-40s.
This lack of appropriate healthcare will eventually affect ALL women in these states, not just those of childbearing age.

Okay then don’t move, simple as that! Young women would do whatever they please to do

Why the anger? It’s almost like you know you are on the losing side of this.

We’re coming for you in November.

They want abortion banned in every state so that doctors stop fleeing red states because of these laws. It's becoming a real problem for red states to find doctors and everyone (even men) are suffering from lack of care. It's what they deserve TBH

Are they going to pass laws that you cannot leave the country if you have medical training? Because a lot of countries have shortages of doctors right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You also cannot keep up your skills if you are doing them infrequently. This is a very real thing in surgical procedures, and you cannot maintain your hospital credentialling to perform surgical procedures if you aren't able to do a certain number every year.

Many weren't trained in the first place.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article...ii/S0010782413007452
One 2013 survey found that out of 161 physician residency programs across the United States, only half provided abortion training as part of their standard curriculum. (Some programs have “opt-in” option outside of the routine training.)



https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/ob...ns-report-rcna164479
In states that restrict abortion, some OB-GYN residents have to rely on textbooks in lieu of observing an abortion firsthand or simulate the procedure using a piece of fruit.

“You can tell who has done it and who has learned it from a book,” one residency director said in the report. “There is a gap in how they’d manage patients.”

Lappen said residents who don’t receive sufficient training might not develop expertise about how to manage situations like miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies or may lack the skills to quickly intervene in life-threatening emergencies when an abortion is medically necessary.

“Abortion care can be the fastest way to save someone’s life, and the easiest way to save someone’s life” in certain cases, he said. “That skill set is really, incredibly important and there are parts of the country where it currently is in significant shortage or may not exist.”



https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/27/health/abo...idency-programs.html
Many medical residency programs that are educating the next generation of obstetricians and gynecologists are facing a treacherous choice.

If they continue to provide abortion training in states where the procedure is now outlawed, they could be prosecuted. If they don’t offer it, they risk losing their accreditation, which in turn would render their residents ineligible to receive specialty board certification and imperil recruitment of faculty and medical students.

This training also involves learning how to do D&Cs. So keep that in mind next time you or someone you know needs a D&C due to incomplete miscarriage, abnormal uterine bleeding, or any other of a number of reasons a D&C might be warranted.
If doctors aren't receiving proper training on these procedures, they also can't care for women who need them for reasons outside of an elective abortion, either.

Should young women plan to have their babies and raise their families in pro choice states? The care and outcomes will be increasingly superior in pro choice states.

DP. My company has another office in TX, and there's absolutely no way I would consider a move there...and I'm in my mid-40s.
This lack of appropriate healthcare will eventually affect ALL women in these states, not just those of childbearing age.

Okay then don’t move, simple as that! Young women would do whatever they please to do

Why the anger? It’s almost like you know you are on the losing side of this.

We’re coming for you in November.

They want abortion banned in every state so that doctors stop fleeing red states because of these laws. It's becoming a real problem for red states to find doctors and everyone (even men) are suffering from lack of care. It's what they deserve TBH

Are they going to pass laws that you cannot leave the country if you have medical training? Because a lot of countries have shortages of doctors right now.

You can't force anyone to live in your state Texas. If you want to attract young docs to your state, allow them to practice modern medicine instead of imposing backwards, draconian, doctor repelling laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Practicing medicine is also not the same as it used to be. Physicians are told repeatedly -- here and elsewhere, repeatedly -- that there is nothing extraordinary or special about a doctor's job, that they are just like mechanics who work for you, that it's just business.

Many doctors hear you and believe you. It's just a job, nothing special or with extraordinary responsibility. You wouldn't expect a mechanic to risk jail, even a lifelong sentence, to work on your car, would you? That would be crazy.

I have never heard this. What I have heard is criticism of the “god complex”. There’s a TON of space in between “not special” and “god.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You also cannot keep up your skills if you are doing them infrequently. This is a very real thing in surgical procedures, and you cannot maintain your hospital credentialling to perform surgical procedures if you aren't able to do a certain number every year.

Many weren't trained in the first place.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article...ii/S0010782413007452
One 2013 survey found that out of 161 physician residency programs across the United States, only half provided abortion training as part of their standard curriculum. (Some programs have “opt-in” option outside of the routine training.)



https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/ob...ns-report-rcna164479
In states that restrict abortion, some OB-GYN residents have to rely on textbooks in lieu of observing an abortion firsthand or simulate the procedure using a piece of fruit.

“You can tell who has done it and who has learned it from a book,” one residency director said in the report. “There is a gap in how they’d manage patients.”

Lappen said residents who don’t receive sufficient training might not develop expertise about how to manage situations like miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies or may lack the skills to quickly intervene in life-threatening emergencies when an abortion is medically necessary.

“Abortion care can be the fastest way to save someone’s life, and the easiest way to save someone’s life” in certain cases, he said. “That skill set is really, incredibly important and there are parts of the country where it currently is in significant shortage or may not exist.”



https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/27/health/abo...idency-programs.html
Many medical residency programs that are educating the next generation of obstetricians and gynecologists are facing a treacherous choice.

If they continue to provide abortion training in states where the procedure is now outlawed, they could be prosecuted. If they don’t offer it, they risk losing their accreditation, which in turn would render their residents ineligible to receive specialty board certification and imperil recruitment of faculty and medical students.

This training also involves learning how to do D&Cs. So keep that in mind next time you or someone you know needs a D&C due to incomplete miscarriage, abnormal uterine bleeding, or any other of a number of reasons a D&C might be warranted.
If doctors aren't receiving proper training on these procedures, they also can't care for women who need them for reasons outside of an elective abortion, either.

Should young women plan to have their babies and raise their families in pro choice states? The care and outcomes will be increasingly superior in pro choice states.

DP. My company has another office in TX, and there's absolutely no way I would consider a move there...and I'm in my mid-40s.
This lack of appropriate healthcare will eventually affect ALL women in these states, not just those of childbearing age.

Okay then don’t move, simple as that! Young women would do whatever they please to do

Yes, including voting out forced birthers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Practicing medicine is also not the same as it used to be. Physicians are told repeatedly -- here and elsewhere, repeatedly -- that there is nothing extraordinary or special about a doctor's job, that they are just like mechanics who work for you, that it's just business.

Many doctors hear you and believe you. It's just a job, nothing special or with extraordinary responsibility. You wouldn't expect a mechanic to risk jail, even a lifelong sentence, to work on your car, would you? That would be crazy.

I have never heard this. What I have heard is criticism of the “god complex”. There’s a TON of space in between “not special” and “god.”

Oh yeah, that too. It's a convincing package. Just a job, not anything special. Go home when the clock strikes five -- if people don't like how you run your business, they can go to another mechanic.

Win-win for everyone.

[Anonymous]

PS: You want links? Because there are dozens of these posts just on this site. Fair enough, just a job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the first of what are likely many similar cases that will end up coming to light.
Investigation into maternal deaths takes time. Some states (i.e., TX) now have a vested interest in not actively pursuing investigations and studies in maternal mortality rates. And some families will be hesitant to come forward publicly about their losses.
Already, there are multiple stories of women who have suffered permanent loss of fertility due to lack of appropriate medical care. At least one or 2 of the women involved in the lawsuit down in TX ended up needing hysterectomies due to hemorrhage and/or sepsis.

This is what is so confusing and infuriating in these cases. Why exactly is the care being delayed? Is it because the fetus still has a heartbeat? Sepsis and hemorrhage are both medical emergencies and time is of the essence. The mother's life is potentially on the line so why would a doctor not take immediate action? Even if the fetus has a heartbeat it won't have one for much longer is no care is provided resulting in the mother's death.

NO. IT IS BECAUSE DOCTORS CAN BE HELD LIABLE FOR ASSISTING JN AN ABORTION.

MISCARRIAGES SOMETIMES LOOK LIKE AN UNSUCCESSFUL ABORTION.

SOMETIMES DOCTORS ARE PRESENTED WITH AN UNSUCCESSFUL ABORTION.

MANY MANY OTHER THINGS CAN GO WRONG IN PREGNANCY AND IT IS NOT ALWAYS CLEAR IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION WHAT THE CAUSE IS.

DO YOU REALLY NOT UNDERSTAND THIS?!?

Different poster, but what I don't understand about this specific case is they KNEW they needed to intervene, and delayed. It was clear cut intervention, and fast intervention, was needed, or she would die. They decided to not intervene until later, and she died. Meanwhile GOP could still prosecute because they did intervene.

From the ProPublica article, citing information about the GA law:

"It prohibits doctors from using any instrument “with the purpose of terminating a pregnancy.” While removing fetal tissue is not terminating a pregnancy, medically speaking, the law only specifies it’s not considered an abortion to remove “a dead unborn child” that resulted from a “spontaneous abortion” defined as “naturally occurring” from a miscarriage or a stillbirth."

In other words, the wording of the associated exception in the GA law concerns intervening only in cases associated with an incomplete natural miscarriage, NOT an incomplete medical abortion.
I would assume they felt they couldn't act because she had already told them that her condition resulted from a failed medical abortion. Had she told them she was miscarrying naturally, they likely would have performed a D&C.

wtf. Back in the dinosaur ages when abortion was broadly criminal (with exceptions for the connected affluent who might be able to get a hospital abortion or a D&C for a "late" period) and it would routine for women to show up in ER's due to abortion complications, my understanding is they went ahead with medical treatment. Maybe because they saw it so often?

Two reasons - 1) the criminal liability was on the woman, and 2) the care was considered medical treatment - i.e. - the law did not consider a D&C an abortion in any way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You also cannot keep up your skills if you are doing them infrequently. This is a very real thing in surgical procedures, and you cannot maintain your hospital credentialling to perform surgical procedures if you aren't able to do a certain number every year.

Many weren't trained in the first place.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article...ii/S0010782413007452
One 2013 survey found that out of 161 physician residency programs across the United States, only half provided abortion training as part of their standard curriculum. (Some programs have “opt-in” option outside of the routine training.)



https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/ob...ns-report-rcna164479
In states that restrict abortion, some OB-GYN residents have to rely on textbooks in lieu of observing an abortion firsthand or simulate the procedure using a piece of fruit.

“You can tell who has done it and who has learned it from a book,” one residency director said in the report. “There is a gap in how they’d manage patients.”

Lappen said residents who don’t receive sufficient training might not develop expertise about how to manage situations like miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies or may lack the skills to quickly intervene in life-threatening emergencies when an abortion is medically necessary.

“Abortion care can be the fastest way to save someone’s life, and the easiest way to save someone’s life” in certain cases, he said. “That skill set is really, incredibly important and there are parts of the country where it currently is in significant shortage or may not exist.”



https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/27/health/abo...idency-programs.html
Many medical residency programs that are educating the next generation of obstetricians and gynecologists are facing a treacherous choice.

If they continue to provide abortion training in states where the procedure is now outlawed, they could be prosecuted. If they don’t offer it, they risk losing their accreditation, which in turn would render their residents ineligible to receive specialty board certification and imperil recruitment of faculty and medical students.

This training also involves learning how to do D&Cs. So keep that in mind next time you or someone you know needs a D&C due to incomplete miscarriage, abnormal uterine bleeding, or any other of a number of reasons a D&C might be warranted.
If doctors aren't receiving proper training on these procedures, they also can't care for women who need them for reasons outside of an elective abortion, either.

Should young women plan to have their babies and raise their families in pro choice states? The care and outcomes will be increasingly superior in pro choice states.

DP. My company has another office in TX, and there's absolutely no way I would consider a move there...and I'm in my mid-40s.
This lack of appropriate healthcare will eventually affect ALL women in these states, not just those of childbearing age.

Okay then don’t move, simple as that! Young women would do whatever they please to do

Why the anger? It’s almost like you know you are on the losing side of this.

We’re coming for you in November.

They want abortion banned in every state so that doctors stop fleeing red states because of these laws. It's becoming a real problem for red states to find doctors and everyone (even men) are suffering from lack of care. It's what they deserve TBH

Are they going to pass laws that you cannot leave the country if you have medical training? Because a lot of countries have shortages of doctors right now.

You can't force anyone to live in your state Texas. If you want to attract young docs to your state, allow them to practice modern medicine instead of imposing backwards, draconian, doctor repelling laws.

NP- I am really fed up by people here who think they are superior because they are blue voters in blue states. Guess what? I am a blue voter in a red state, and a woman. There are many of us. Some of us can't leave. and some of us choose to stay and vote to change things. It's very easy staying home safe in blue states with zero skin in the game, ranting about GOP, saying "oh I'd NEVER move there" and absolutely horrific things like "it's what they deserve" when Democrat women in red states exist, and we are both the victims AND the solution, and all too aware of the current situation and danger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You also cannot keep up your skills if you are doing them infrequently. This is a very real thing in surgical procedures, and you cannot maintain your hospital credentialling to perform surgical procedures if you aren't able to do a certain number every year.

Many weren't trained in the first place.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article...ii/S0010782413007452
One 2013 survey found that out of 161 physician residency programs across the United States, only half provided abortion training as part of their standard curriculum. (Some programs have “opt-in” option outside of the routine training.)



https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/ob...ns-report-rcna164479
In states that restrict abortion, some OB-GYN residents have to rely on textbooks in lieu of observing an abortion firsthand or simulate the procedure using a piece of fruit.

“You can tell who has done it and who has learned it from a book,” one residency director said in the report. “There is a gap in how they’d manage patients.”

Lappen said residents who don’t receive sufficient training might not develop expertise about how to manage situations like miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies or may lack the skills to quickly intervene in life-threatening emergencies when an abortion is medically necessary.

“Abortion care can be the fastest way to save someone’s life, and the easiest way to save someone’s life” in certain cases, he said. “That skill set is really, incredibly important and there are parts of the country where it currently is in significant shortage or may not exist.”



https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/27/health/abo...idency-programs.html
Many medical residency programs that are educating the next generation of obstetricians and gynecologists are facing a treacherous choice.

If they continue to provide abortion training in states where the procedure is now outlawed, they could be prosecuted. If they don’t offer it, they risk losing their accreditation, which in turn would render their residents ineligible to receive specialty board certification and imperil recruitment of faculty and medical students.

This training also involves learning how to do D&Cs. So keep that in mind next time you or someone you know needs a D&C due to incomplete miscarriage, abnormal uterine bleeding, or any other of a number of reasons a D&C might be warranted.
If doctors aren't receiving proper training on these procedures, they also can't care for women who need them for reasons outside of an elective abortion, either.

Should young women plan to have their babies and raise their families in pro choice states? The care and outcomes will be increasingly superior in pro choice states.

DP. My company has another office in TX, and there's absolutely no way I would consider a move there...and I'm in my mid-40s.
This lack of appropriate healthcare will eventually affect ALL women in these states, not just those of childbearing age.

Okay then don’t move, simple as that! Young women would do whatever they please to do

Why the anger? It’s almost like you know you are on the losing side of this.

We’re coming for you in November.

They want abortion banned in every state so that doctors stop fleeing red states because of these laws. It's becoming a real problem for red states to find doctors and everyone (even men) are suffering from lack of care. It's what they deserve TBH

Are they going to pass laws that you cannot leave the country if you have medical training? Because a lot of countries have shortages of doctors right now.

You can't force anyone to live in your state Texas. If you want to attract young docs to your state, allow them to practice modern medicine instead of imposing backwards, draconian, doctor repelling laws.

NP- I am really fed up by people here who think they are superior because they are blue voters in blue states. Guess what? I am a blue voter in a red state, and a woman. There are many of us. Some of us can't leave. and some of us choose to stay and vote to change things. It's very easy staying home safe in blue states with zero skin in the game, ranting about GOP, saying "oh I'd NEVER move there" and absolutely horrific things like "it's what they deserve" when Democrat women in red states exist, and we are both the victims AND the solution, and all too aware of the current situation and danger.

The poster never said any about being superior to you. The laws of reproductive freedom states are superior and that serves to attract young doctors to those states.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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You also cannot keep up your skills if you are doing them infrequently. This is a very real thing in surgical procedures, and you cannot maintain your hospital credentialling to perform surgical procedures if you aren't able to do a certain number every year.

Many weren't trained in the first place.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article...ii/S0010782413007452
One 2013 survey found that out of 161 physician residency programs across the United States, only half provided abortion training as part of their standard curriculum. (Some programs have “opt-in” option outside of the routine training.)



https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/ob...ns-report-rcna164479
In states that restrict abortion, some OB-GYN residents have to rely on textbooks in lieu of observing an abortion firsthand or simulate the procedure using a piece of fruit.

“You can tell who has done it and who has learned it from a book,” one residency director said in the report. “There is a gap in how they’d manage patients.”

Lappen said residents who don’t receive sufficient training might not develop expertise about how to manage situations like miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies or may lack the skills to quickly intervene in life-threatening emergencies when an abortion is medically necessary.

“Abortion care can be the fastest way to save someone’s life, and the easiest way to save someone’s life” in certain cases, he said. “That skill set is really, incredibly important and there are parts of the country where it currently is in significant shortage or may not exist.”



https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/27/health/abo...idency-programs.html
Many medical residency programs that are educating the next generation of obstetricians and gynecologists are facing a treacherous choice.

If they continue to provide abortion training in states where the procedure is now outlawed, they could be prosecuted. If they don’t offer it, they risk losing their accreditation, which in turn would render their residents ineligible to receive specialty board certification and imperil recruitment of faculty and medical students.

This training also involves learning how to do D&Cs. So keep that in mind next time you or someone you know needs a D&C due to incomplete miscarriage, abnormal uterine bleeding, or any other of a number of reasons a D&C might be warranted.
If doctors aren't receiving proper training on these procedures, they also can't care for women who need them for reasons outside of an elective abortion, either.

Should young women plan to have their babies and raise their families in pro choice states? The care and outcomes will be increasingly superior in pro choice states.

DP. My company has another office in TX, and there's absolutely no way I would consider a move there...and I'm in my mid-40s.
This lack of appropriate healthcare will eventually affect ALL women in these states, not just those of childbearing age.

Okay then don’t move, simple as that! Young women would do whatever they please to do

Why the anger? It’s almost like you know you are on the losing side of this.

We’re coming for you in November.

They want abortion banned in every state so that doctors stop fleeing red states because of these laws. It's becoming a real problem for red states to find doctors and everyone (even men) are suffering from lack of care. It's what they deserve TBH

Are they going to pass laws that you cannot leave the country if you have medical training? Because a lot of countries have shortages of doctors right now.

You can't force anyone to live in your state Texas. If you want to attract young docs to your state, allow them to practice modern medicine instead of imposing backwards, draconian, doctor repelling laws.

NP- I am really fed up by people here who think they are superior because they are blue voters in blue states. Guess what? I am a blue voter in a red state, and a woman. There are many of us. Some of us can't leave. and some of us choose to stay and vote to change things. It's very easy staying home safe in blue states with zero skin in the game, ranting about GOP, saying "oh I'd NEVER move there" and absolutely horrific things like "it's what they deserve" when Democrat women in red states exist, and we are both the victims AND the solution, and all too aware of the current situation and danger.

But blue voters in blue states can't save you. They can't fix this for you. You either have to fix it from within, or leave. What would you do if a tornado or hurricane flattened the place where you live, the place where you live, everything? Because metaphorically, that's where you are (or soon will be) without healthcare.

It's not that people outside feel they are superior. It's that they are appalled by what has happened to you, and they cannot fix it.

If you think other people can fix this, please explain the exact steps to do so. We'd rather that than watch you suffer.