Boundaries or something else

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Hmm, the valid point she may or may not be making is getting lost in the idiotic and bumbling way she's going about it, OP. At least, from your description, that's what I gather.

So I would roll my eyes, and just distance myself. Not worth the trouble.

That's what I've done but it still bums me out that she's like this. That's why I feel the need to complain anonymously. I don't want to actually fight with her. But I do want to express my feelings ( and that's not allowed in our relationship)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Hmm, the valid point she may or may not be making is getting lost in the idiotic and bumbling way she's going about it, OP. At least, from your description, that's what I gather.

So I would roll my eyes, and just distance myself. Not worth the trouble.

That's what I've done but it still bums me out that she's like this. That's why I feel the need to complain anonymously. I don't want to actually fight with her. But I do want to express my feelings ( and that's not allowed in our relationship)

it sounds like you two just aren't compatible as adults/friends.

there is nothing wrong with that - but your expectations of what your relationship SHOULD be vs what it actually is, is what is bumming you out. You can't control her, but you can control your expectations.

And that is what the posters are trying to get at - it sucks sure, you are allowed to feel bummed - but you can't change other people .... so either accept this and move on, or stew on it and feel resentment/suffering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people use boundaries to mean "I should never have to do, or see, or hear, anything I don't like. If people don't act the way I want them to all the time, it's not merely part of life or annoying, it's offensive or toxic. Relationships should require no work or compromise on my part, and even asking me something i dont want to do or share is wrong and hurtful" There are people who genuinely need to set boundaries for themselves so that they don't do too much or accept mistreatment, but the term has been stripped of any useful meaning by overuse and misuse.

Yep. And there's a difference between a healthy boundary and an ultimatum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people use boundaries to mean "I should never have to do, or see, or hear, anything I don't like. If people don't act the way I want them to all the time, it's not merely part of life or annoying, it's offensive or toxic. Relationships should require no work or compromise on my part, and even asking me something i dont want to do or share is wrong and hurtful" There are people who genuinely need to set boundaries for themselves so that they don't do too much or accept mistreatment, but the term has been stripped of any useful meaning by overuse and misuse.

Yep. And there's a difference between a healthy boundary and an ultimatum.

Well to pushy people a boundary ends up being an ultimatum. It’s the other person calmly telling you that they aren’t going to engage or participate in whatever behavior you are trying to get them to engage in with you. Your options are to either stop and or find someone else to play the way you want.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, OP sounds like she wants to live in this land of mushy boundaries. The vague descriptions are a way for OP to constantly maintain that there was no "very specific" boundary made and as such, OP can continue to pretend she's not doing anything wrong.

OP, what do you want your sister to say to define an individual boundary? Is it "I will not be talking about our brother", or is it "I will not be talking about our brother because XYz" or is it "I will not be talking about our brother in these very precise circumstances [include page of very precise circumstances]."

[Anonymous]

To add: If you want options 2 or 3, that suggests you want to pick at why the boundary exists or the actual contours of the boundaries. Which suggests you not actually respecting boundaries and in general being exhuasting.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:A lot of people use boundaries to mean "I should never have to do, or see, or hear, anything I don't like. If people don't act the way I want them to all the time, it's not merely part of life or annoying, it's offensive or toxic. Relationships should require no work or compromise on my part, and even asking me something i dont want to do or share is wrong and hurtful" There are people who genuinely need to set boundaries for themselves so that they don't do too much or accept mistreatment, but the term has been stripped of any useful meaning by overuse and misuse.

Yes. This is what I feel like my sister is doing. I can't be perfect, but she expects me to be perfect and if I'm not she "sets a boundary" that she doesn't want to be near me. She doesn't talk it through with me or act like our relationship is important. That's what I'm struggling with. It is important to set boundaries and not continue to be abused by people but I am not abusive. Relationships can take compromise and negotiation and even just adjustment and not be abusive. It takes communication and maybe even work and that's OK!

So can you give an example of when as you claim you’re not being perfect?

Not everyone wants to invest the time to constantly compromise and negotiate and explain in a lengthy conversation why they said no. You can want to spend less time with someone whom you don’t have as much in common, who annoys you or who you can only take in small doses. You can have other more important priorities in your life. The other person doesn’t have to be abusive for you to decide to spend your time and energy elsewhere.

Sure. My sister has every right to decide not to spend time with me. But I can also want to have a relationship with her and try to figure out how to do that, right? Or am I required to be happy she wants to distance herself from me?

An example, she told me she wasn't speaking to our brother. I said that made me sad. She said that telling her that it made me sad was me making it all about me and that she didn't want that kind of energy in her life. She told me never to talk mention our brother and not to give her updates on our brother.

info needed, what transpired that she wasn't speaking to your brother?

and you responding that it makes YOU sad, IS making it about yourself rather than listening to her and trusting that, for whatever reason, she does not want to talk about or hear about your brother. Accept that. Stop talking about your brother to her. To have a relationship with a person who invalidates my feelings, or turns situations I am bothered by to be about themselves, is exhausting.

Dude, It was part of a larger conversation. That was not the first or even 20th thing I said. I am allowed to have feelings and to express them. And it would be weird, wouldn't it, if strife in my family didn't elicit some feelings in me? And don't we want to be able to share our feelings with our loved ones? I didn't dwell on the fact that it made me sad, I mentioned it and that set her off.

(The details of why they're not talking are irrelevant and between them.)

I see why your sister put these boundaries in place, you don't listen and continue to make it about you.

The example you proffered was that talking about your brother to your sister upset her. She asked you not to, yet you continue, or think she doesn't have the right to ask that of you. The details of why they aren't talking are 100% relevant if you are turning to an online anonymous community seeking feedback on the matter. It was your own example. Give a better example then.

This example, your response only pushes me to side sister and boundaries. You are exhausting.

I'm exhausting because I spent 1% of a conversation expressing my feelings? I think you may be projecting some stuff from your own life onto this scenario. Maybe you're the one who's exhausting.

no you are exhausting because you seem hell bent on being obtuse and not listening to others feelings or perspectives.

you have yet to provide an example of your sister setting boundaries that aren't perfectly within her right .... i'll wait

Anyone has the right to set any boundaries they want. That doesn't mean they are kind or healthy boundaries. What part of that don't you understand?

again, your responses on this post are showing that your sisters boundaries ARE HEALTHY.... as I wouldn't want to engage with a person like this either.

still waiting on that example of her unhealthy boundary.

Cutting off people in your family because they don't behave exactly the way you want is unhealthy.

OP, you sound like you have trouble with nuance.

"behave exactly the way you want"

"I am not allowed to have feelings"

"I can't be perfect"

I can see why your sister finds it difficult to interact with you.

[Anonymous]

OP, I don't mean this as a put-down, but are you in your teens?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:A lot of people use boundaries to mean "I should never have to do, or see, or hear, anything I don't like. If people don't act the way I want them to all the time, it's not merely part of life or annoying, it's offensive or toxic. Relationships should require no work or compromise on my part, and even asking me something i dont want to do or share is wrong and hurtful" There are people who genuinely need to set boundaries for themselves so that they don't do too much or accept mistreatment, but the term has been stripped of any useful meaning by overuse and misuse.

Yes. This is what I feel like my sister is doing. I can't be perfect, but she expects me to be perfect and if I'm not she "sets a boundary" that she doesn't want to be near me. She doesn't talk it through with me or act like our relationship is important. That's what I'm struggling with. It is important to set boundaries and not continue to be abused by people but I am not abusive. Relationships can take compromise and negotiation and even just adjustment and not be abusive. It takes communication and maybe even work and that's OK!

So can you give an example of when as you claim you’re not being perfect?

Not everyone wants to invest the time to constantly compromise and negotiate and explain in a lengthy conversation why they said no. You can want to spend less time with someone whom you don’t have as much in common, who annoys you or who you can only take in small doses. You can have other more important priorities in your life. The other person doesn’t have to be abusive for you to decide to spend your time and energy elsewhere.

Sure. My sister has every right to decide not to spend time with me. But I can also want to have a relationship with her and try to figure out how to do that, right? Or am I required to be happy she wants to distance herself from me?

An example, she told me she wasn't speaking to our brother. I said that made me sad. She said that telling her that it made me sad was me making it all about me and that she didn't want that kind of energy in her life. She told me never to talk mention our brother and not to give her updates on our brother.

That's a pretty clear and direct boundary, OP. You're choice is to respect it, or end up on the other side of that line as well. I don't think expressing sadness is inappropriate per se, as long as it came along with a "but I support your choices", but if your sharing your sadness was an attempt to manipulate your sister into softening her stance - maybe she picked up on that.

this is my suspicion as well, esp after seeing how OP engages here on this board.

Honestly in this instance I wasn't trying to get her to do anything. I was talking about myself like she was talking about herself. But what if I didn't agree with her? Or is that a prerequisite for every relationship?

I have many friendships with people where we are free to express ourselves and our opinions and even disagree. We do this respectfully without fear of being "cut off" or ostracized. If I don't like what my friend says to me I tell him/her and we talk about it. The underlying premise is that we want to be in relationship with each other and we're both willing to negotiate that and compromise.

Anyone has the right to set any boundaries they want with whomever they want. I'm not arguing that.

What kind of relationship do I want with my sister? The kind where every interaction isn't a minefield of "you shouldn't have said that" and "you should have said that" and where I can be my authentic, caring and compassionate self without fear of being cut off.

You kind of sound exhausting. I don’t mean to be unkind, but I don't think I’d want to talk to you regularly either. Maybe just spend your time focusing on your friends who you have these good relationships with?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My older sister is always talking about how she's setting boundaries, but her behavior just seems judgmental. Her attitude comes across as everyone in the family has profoundly disappointed her and she has to set boundaries because of how awful we are. I'm not even clear on what the boundaries are. I treat her like I treat other people. I reach out to spend time with her, listen to her etc. She just doesn't seem to like us but keeps saying this is about "healthy boundaries."

It's a control tactic, OP.

We can only control ourselves.

Why do you frequently reach out to and spend time with someone who doesn't seem to like you?

coda.org may have some answers for you.

[Anonymous]

I had a family relationship where I tried to establish boundaries in terms of time spent with the family member as well as time spent communicating, as well as topics/types of communication. What I found was that the family member repeatedly expressed their irritation with the boundaries (passive aggressive comments, rolling eyes, body language, petty put-downs) or just pushed against the boundaries constantly (trying to get herself invited to events I said I was going to but did not invite her to, over and over again). It got so exhausting to guard the boundaries, because the family member did not seem to respect them. She seems to feel they were constantly open to interpretation.

Anyway, OP sounds like my family member.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had a family relationship where I tried to establish boundaries in terms of time spent with the family member as well as time spent communicating, as well as topics/types of communication. What I found was that the family member repeatedly expressed their irritation with the boundaries (passive aggressive comments, rolling eyes, body language, petty put-downs) or just pushed against the boundaries constantly (trying to get herself invited to events I said I was going to but did not invite her to, over and over again). It got so exhausting to guard the boundaries, because the family member did not seem to respect them. She seems to feel they were constantly open to interpretation.

Anyway, OP sounds like my family member.

Yeah - that was my read on the situation too.

[Anonymous]

I assume by boundaries or something else you mean "Are these normal and reasonable boundaries or is she just a piece of work who is being a controlling jerk? The answer to that is it doesn't matter. If someone doesn't want to spend as much time with you as you want, then you have to respect that.

I don't set boundaries with any of my friends because they already have healthy boundaries and I feel respected and enjoy their company. I feel the same way about some family members too. Others just drain the life out of me. Boundaries is usually the first step in trying to still have a connection to them. Eventually after years of trying to set boundaries and having them disrespected, you keep stepping back until you find a comfort zone. In some cases that means very low and superficial contact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I assume by boundaries or something else you mean "Are these normal and reasonable boundaries or is she just a piece of work who is being a controlling jerk? The answer to that is it doesn't matter. If someone doesn't want to spend as much time with you as you want, then you have to respect that.

I don't set boundaries with any of my friends because they already have healthy boundaries and I feel respected and enjoy their company. I feel the same way about some family members too. Others just drain the life out of me. Boundaries is usually the first step in trying to still have a connection to them. Eventually after years of trying to set boundaries and having them disrespected, you keep stepping back until you find a comfort zone. In some cases that means very low and superficial contact.

+1

If someone has started to "set boundaries" with you, that suggests there is a mismatch in terms of the relationship. If boundaries can be respected, then the relationship can continue. Maybe someone (like perhaps the sister) isn't great at clearly stating a boundary. Maybe the sister doesn't want to say "I only want to spend one hour with you at a time" since OP would likely flip. At any rate, the sister apparently doesn't feel comfortable with the relationship right now. OP doesn't think the sister has a right to feel uncomfortable. OP very clearly doesn't respect that sister is uncomfortable.

[Anonymous]

I am a recovering codependent and I used to set boundaries like OPs sister. Telling others what they need to do vice saying what I would do as a consequence. If you debate me, I will end the conversation. It really helped me connect my people pleasing tendencies to the boundary work. So I’d guess that sister is struggling with family dysfunction and doesn’t know how to express herself. Be kind, OP. Just shut up and listen. She’s going through a lot. If you just listen, she might feel supported. L. If you are not willing to just support, just back off and find friends that work for you.