Does this warrant an appointment with a counselor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids, oldest is 11, really dislike babies and toddlers. Our oldest has been like this since she herself was a toddler. Disliked dolls also. She’s very vocal about her dislike and I think the younger ones pick up on it.

Recently, she said something concerning. She said that if she saw a baby stranded on the side of the road, she would just leave it to die. The younger ones chimed in to say that they would do the same. Said that she hates babies and there’s too many humans on this planet and humans ruin everything. Knowing her I think it’s just that she thinks so black and white and knows way too much about the causes of climate change and then coupled with her already dislike of babies, she logically thinks it’s better to let the baby die.

I have tried to change their view of babies and toddlers but to no avail. They have younger cousins who adore them. But our kids want nothing to do with them. They have never ever been mean or unkind, but they generally ignore them. I feel bad that they are not friendlier. Our younger ones are a bit more flexible. Even though they hate them and complain about them to us, they will be nice enough to play with them, answer their questions, help them with something, or teach them something- albeit begrudgingly (on the inside).

Our oldest won’t even do that though.

She says similar things about humans in general- just a lack of concern, empathy, and value for someone’s life.

Would you be concerned?

I would be very concerned because lack of empathy is a strong indicator of psychopathy and leaving a baby on the side of the road to die is as lacking in basic empathy as it gets. I realize she’s just saying it and may not actually act in that way given the circumstances but I think more normative thinking in a child would be geared toward nurture and compassion even if they didn’t want babies or like babies themselves.

I don’t meant to put fear in you but having worked for years in criminal justice I have a lot of experience with abnormal psychology having read hundreds upon hundreds of psych assessments tied to juvenile and adult criminal cases.

There is new thinking about identifying psychopathy in kids and intervening with early treatment in family therapy that teaches parents the tools to teach empathy and the research and clinical work in juvenile systems suggests the earlier kids get intervention the better they can do functioning in life and society. Not all psychopaths are violent criminals I’m not suggesting that - but all psychopaths who don’t get treatment will suffer emotional disconnect in their human experience so I think it is worth considering.

Here’s an article to get you started and I do suggest you contact a good child psychiatrist to get your child assessed and get her and yourselves into family therapy. Even if she doesn’t assess as psychopathy she is clearly struggling with dark thinking and that is not likely to get better by itself as she goes through the upheavals of puberty.

https://modlab.yale.edu/news/there-are-no-child-psychopaths-because-we-cant-diagnose-them-yet-vice

This is a complete and total overreaction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids, oldest is 11, really dislike babies and toddlers. Our oldest has been like this since she herself was a toddler. Disliked dolls also. She’s very vocal about her dislike and I think the younger ones pick up on it.

Recently, she said something concerning. She said that if she saw a baby stranded on the side of the road, she would just leave it to die. The younger ones chimed in to say that they would do the same. Said that she hates babies and there’s too many humans on this planet and humans ruin everything. Knowing her I think it’s just that she thinks so black and white and knows way too much about the causes of climate change and then coupled with her already dislike of babies, she logically thinks it’s better to let the baby die.

I have tried to change their view of babies and toddlers but to no avail. They have younger cousins who adore them. But our kids want nothing to do with them. They have never ever been mean or unkind, but they generally ignore them. I feel bad that they are not friendlier. Our younger ones are a bit more flexible. Even though they hate them and complain about them to us, they will be nice enough to play with them, answer their questions, help them with something, or teach them something- albeit begrudgingly (on the inside).

Our oldest won’t even do that though.

She says similar things about humans in general- just a lack of concern, empathy, and value for someone’s life.

Would you be concerned?

I would be very concerned because lack of empathy is a strong indicator of psychopathy and leaving a baby on the side of the road to die is as lacking in basic empathy as it gets. I realize she’s just saying it and may not actually act in that way given the circumstances but I think more normative thinking in a child would be geared toward nurture and compassion even if they didn’t want babies or like babies themselves.

I don’t meant to put fear in you but having worked for years in criminal justice I have a lot of experience with abnormal psychology having read hundreds upon hundreds of psych assessments tied to juvenile and adult criminal cases.

There is new thinking about identifying psychopathy in kids and intervening with early treatment in family therapy that teaches parents the tools to teach empathy and the research and clinical work in juvenile systems suggests the earlier kids get intervention the better they can do functioning in life and society. Not all psychopaths are violent criminals I’m not suggesting that - but all psychopaths who don’t get treatment will suffer emotional disconnect in their human experience so I think it is worth considering.

Here’s an article to get you started and I do suggest you contact a good child psychiatrist to get your child assessed and get her and yourselves into family therapy. Even if she doesn’t assess as psychopathy she is clearly struggling with dark thinking and that is not likely to get better by itself as she goes through the upheavals of puberty.

https://modlab.yale.edu/news/there-are-no-child-psychopaths-because-we-cant-diagnose-them-yet-vice

Omg. How is trying to label a young child a psychopath remotely helpful? One who has never actually been violent, loves animals, does well in school, is kind to peers and siblings, and is unfailingly honest?

Right?? Some people really get off on the idea that children can be psychopaths. It’s like some kind of true crime fantasy to them. When in reality this is a normal, intelligent girl who just makes her mother uncomfortable because she doesn’t conform to some imagined notion of a tween girl loving babies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids, oldest is 11, really dislike babies and toddlers. Our oldest has been like this since she herself was a toddler. Disliked dolls also. She’s very vocal about her dislike and I think the younger ones pick up on it.

Recently, she said something concerning. She said that if she saw a baby stranded on the side of the road, she would just leave it to die. The younger ones chimed in to say that they would do the same. Said that she hates babies and there’s too many humans on this planet and humans ruin everything. Knowing her I think it’s just that she thinks so black and white and knows way too much about the causes of climate change and then coupled with her already dislike of babies, she logically thinks it’s better to let the baby die.

I have tried to change their view of babies and toddlers but to no avail. They have younger cousins who adore them. But our kids want nothing to do with them. They have never ever been mean or unkind, but they generally ignore them. I feel bad that they are not friendlier. Our younger ones are a bit more flexible. Even though they hate them and complain about them to us, they will be nice enough to play with them, answer their questions, help them with something, or teach them something- albeit begrudgingly (on the inside).

Our oldest won’t even do that though.

She says similar things about humans in general- just a lack of concern, empathy, and value for someone’s life.

Would you be concerned?

I would be very concerned because lack of empathy is a strong indicator of psychopathy and leaving a baby on the side of the road to die is as lacking in basic empathy as it gets. I realize she’s just saying it and may not actually act in that way given the circumstances but I think more normative thinking in a child would be geared toward nurture and compassion even if they didn’t want babies or like babies themselves.

I don’t meant to put fear in you but having worked for years in criminal justice I have a lot of experience with abnormal psychology having read hundreds upon hundreds of psych assessments tied to juvenile and adult criminal cases.

There is new thinking about identifying psychopathy in kids and intervening with early treatment in family therapy that teaches parents the tools to teach empathy and the research and clinical work in juvenile systems suggests the earlier kids get intervention the better they can do functioning in life and society. Not all psychopaths are violent criminals I’m not suggesting that - but all psychopaths who don’t get treatment will suffer emotional disconnect in their human experience so I think it is worth considering.

Here’s an article to get you started and I do suggest you contact a good child psychiatrist to get your child assessed and get her and yourselves into family therapy. Even if she doesn’t assess as psychopathy she is clearly struggling with dark thinking and that is not likely to get better by itself as she goes through the upheavals of puberty.

https://modlab.yale.edu/news/there-are-no-child-psychopaths-because-we-cant-diagnose-them-yet-vice

Omg. How is trying to label a young child a psychopath remotely helpful? One who has never actually been violent, loves animals, does well in school, is kind to peers and siblings, and is unfailingly honest?

Right?? Some people really get off on the idea that children can be psychopaths. It’s like some kind of true crime fantasy to them. When in reality this is a normal, intelligent girl who just makes her mother uncomfortable because she doesn’t conform to some imagined notion of a tween girl loving babies.

No doubt you and yours are not that kind of girl, we get it, you’re cool! But not conforming to a fantasy of tbe good loving girl is not what OP conveyed at all. Not loving versus “hating,” avoiding young cousins, and talking about leaving babies to die for some idiot ecosalvation fantasy is what a messed up kid says. OP should consider getting her assessed, and absent that, encourage DD to keep that type of thought to herself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids, oldest is 11, really dislike babies and toddlers. Our oldest has been like this since she herself was a toddler. Disliked dolls also. She’s very vocal about her dislike and I think the younger ones pick up on it.

Recently, she said something concerning. She said that if she saw a baby stranded on the side of the road, she would just leave it to die. The younger ones chimed in to say that they would do the same. Said that she hates babies and there’s too many humans on this planet and humans ruin everything. Knowing her I think it’s just that she thinks so black and white and knows way too much about the causes of climate change and then coupled with her already dislike of babies, she logically thinks it’s better to let the baby die.

I have tried to change their view of babies and toddlers but to no avail. They have younger cousins who adore them. But our kids want nothing to do with them. They have never ever been mean or unkind, but they generally ignore them. I feel bad that they are not friendlier. Our younger ones are a bit more flexible. Even though they hate them and complain about them to us, they will be nice enough to play with them, answer their questions, help them with something, or teach them something- albeit begrudgingly (on the inside).

Our oldest won’t even do that though.

She says similar things about humans in general- just a lack of concern, empathy, and value for someone’s life.

Would you be concerned?

I would be very concerned because lack of empathy is a strong indicator of psychopathy and leaving a baby on the side of the road to die is as lacking in basic empathy as it gets. I realize she’s just saying it and may not actually act in that way given the circumstances but I think more normative thinking in a child would be geared toward nurture and compassion even if they didn’t want babies or like babies themselves.

I don’t meant to put fear in you but having worked for years in criminal justice I have a lot of experience with abnormal psychology having read hundreds upon hundreds of psych assessments tied to juvenile and adult criminal cases.

There is new thinking about identifying psychopathy in kids and intervening with early treatment in family therapy that teaches parents the tools to teach empathy and the research and clinical work in juvenile systems suggests the earlier kids get intervention the better they can do functioning in life and society. Not all psychopaths are violent criminals I’m not suggesting that - but all psychopaths who don’t get treatment will suffer emotional disconnect in their human experience so I think it is worth considering.

Here’s an article to get you started and I do suggest you contact a good child psychiatrist to get your child assessed and get her and yourselves into family therapy. Even if she doesn’t assess as psychopathy she is clearly struggling with dark thinking and that is not likely to get better by itself as she goes through the upheavals of puberty.

https://modlab.yale.edu/news/there-are-no-child-psychopaths-because-we-cant-diagnose-them-yet-vice

Omg. How is trying to label a young child a psychopath remotely helpful? One who has never actually been violent, loves animals, does well in school, is kind to peers and siblings, and is unfailingly honest?

Right?? Some people really get off on the idea that children can be psychopaths. It’s like some kind of true crime fantasy to them. When in reality this is a normal, intelligent girl who just makes her mother uncomfortable because she doesn’t conform to some imagined notion of a tween girl loving babies.

No doubt you and yours are not that kind of girl, we get it, you’re cool! But not conforming to a fantasy of tbe good loving girl is not what OP conveyed at all. Not loving versus “hating,” avoiding young cousins, and talking about leaving babies to die for some idiot ecosalvation fantasy is what a messed up kid says. OP should consider getting her assessed, and absent that, encourage DD to keep that type of thought to herself.

It’s a far stretch from tween said something outrageous” to “tween is a psychopath.” Only someone really invested in pathologizing kids could make that leap. OP clearly states the girl gets along with siblings and peers. A “messed up kid” had far more going on than an off-color joke.

[Anonymous]

The daughtrrr is a loon

[Anonymous]

Does she exhibit empathy in situations that warrant it and don’t involve babies/toddlers? For instance, does she appear to care or be concerned if you or one of her siblings gets hurt? I would be less worried about what she says, not liking babies or taking climate change rhetoric too literally than I would if she actually exhibited a lack of empathy to her immediate loved ones. No, I wouldn’t jump from lacking empathy to sociopath, but if she actually doesn’t exhibit empathy in even the situations where empathy is most instinctual (e.g., pre-verbal toddlers will attempt to cuddle with crying parents), then I would genuinely be concerned something more was going on and get her evaluated. Don’t freak out about what she says (especially coming from a tween girl), but do worry if her actions indicate that’s her actual approach. Also, shut down the talk in front of her siblings.

[Anonymous]

She deserves for you to take this seriously, imo. Not because of the one comment but the larger issue of lack of empathy. Whether it’s asd, sociopathy (not that rare) or just rigidity, she will need tools and trusted confidantes to have a happy life and relationships.

Don’t shame her or guilt her but ask her to talk to you about these things in private rather than with siblings. Kudos for asking the question, OP. I know parents who have one child seriously lacking in empathy and they’re in total denial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She deserves for you to take this seriously, imo. Not because of the one comment but the larger issue of lack of empathy. Whether it’s asd, sociopathy (not that rare) or just rigidity, she will need tools and trusted confidantes to have a happy life and relationships.

Don’t shame her or guilt her but ask her to talk to you about these things in private rather than with siblings. Kudos for asking the question, OP. I know parents who have one child seriously lacking in empathy and they’re in total denial.

“Empathy” is a pretty subjective concept that is IMO not appropriately applied most often. People talk about it as if kids are supposed to be literal angels. All OP said is that the girl doesn’t like babies and said something designed to get attention about it. She plays well with siblings and friends. There is no “empathy” issue here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sending her to a therapist is the last thing I would do, as most would just reinforce this climate change doom and gloom.

OP are you not capable of talking to your own child and setting her straight?

That climate change excuse was just a guess and hoping her hatred of babies had some sort of logic reasoning. I doubt that’s it. It’s too focused on babies. Why not old people?

I would be worried and talk to a counselor first by yourselves to see if they advise counseling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is concerning.

They say when little kids say stuff like "I want 10 babies when I grow up" that is a reflection that the people around them are positive about *them* , think kids are great and they know they are loved.

I'd be worried that someone made your 11 y/o feel deeply unloved as a tiny baby.

That’s absurd. But sure, there is some therapist willing to take $250/hr to explore this.

Agree. This isn’t something I would see a therapist over. If she behaves normally and isn’t torturing animals or drawing pictures of dead babies, I would just leave this alone. So she hates babies and doesn’t want kids. Oh well.

A lot of tweens and teens aren’t into babies. A lot don’t want babies. She’s crossed the line claiming to let a baby die and said it in front of younger children.

If an adult asked 50 children that age what would they do if they were walking home and saw a baby alone on the sidewalk, how many do you think would say “I’d leave the baby to die”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She deserves for you to take this seriously, imo. Not because of the one comment but the larger issue of lack of empathy. Whether it’s asd, sociopathy (not that rare) or just rigidity, she will need tools and trusted confidantes to have a happy life and relationships.

Don’t shame her or guilt her but ask her to talk to you about these things in private rather than with siblings. Kudos for asking the question, OP. I know parents who have one child seriously lacking in empathy and they’re in total denial.

“Empathy” is a pretty subjective concept that is IMO not appropriately applied most often. People talk about it as if kids are supposed to be literal angels. All OP said is that the girl doesn’t like babies and said something designed to get attention about it. She plays well with siblings and friends. There is no “empathy” issue here.

The first post is not indicated she plays well with young kids it's actually her younger siblings that do better with the cousins but she has absolutely nothing to do with them.
Okay I'll be honest I think you're in denial that she doesn't have issues at school if she's this rigid and dismissive of people then she's having issues at school. She says weird things outlandish things super rigid. Does she have close friends? does she have more than a few friends? is she invited to things? More than that the absence of issues does not technically mean that there are no issues. If she's not getting into fights and she's doing her school work then she's going to get no attention from teachers or the admin. This is technically why girls are underdiagnosed in a lot of different areas because unless they are actively creating problems then there are other issues for admin and teachers to deal with.
You know your child outside of academic areas and you need to see the whole picture and not just that she's a good girl who gets good grades or that she's super smart. There is more to navigating the adult world than being smart.
And for those of you insist that if this were a boy that wouldn't be an issue you have some severe gender issues if my son we're 11 years old and said that I would seriously be concerned. One they need to learn how to say that they don't like things without being insulting. And two she's 11 not quite in that tween shock statement era. And three she actually has behaviors that back up her statement so that makes it more concerning because it's not just a shock statement. Four at this age you would expect that yes they say shocking statements but to have no concern about the backlash from it societally is also concerning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is concerning.

They say when little kids say stuff like "I want 10 babies when I grow up" that is a reflection that the people around them are positive about *them* , think kids are great and they know they are loved.

I'd be worried that someone made your 11 y/o feel deeply unloved as a tiny baby.

That’s absurd. But sure, there is some therapist willing to take $250/hr to explore this.

Agree. This isn’t something I would see a therapist over. If she behaves normally and isn’t torturing animals or drawing pictures of dead babies, I would just leave this alone. So she hates babies and doesn’t want kids. Oh well.

A lot of tweens and teens aren’t into babies. A lot don’t want babies. She’s crossed the line claiming to let a baby die and said it in front of younger children.

If an adult asked 50 children that age what would they do if they were walking home and saw a baby alone on the sidewalk, how many do you think would say “I’d leave the baby to die”?

My tween boy & his friends make nonstop yo mamma jokes. Remember dead baby jokes? Kids say things for shock value.

Tbh it must be nice to have so few actual struggles with your kid that you believe one outrageous comment warrants therapy. I’m sure there are plenty of area therapists willing to bill OP $1000/month for this though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She deserves for you to take this seriously, imo. Not because of the one comment but the larger issue of lack of empathy. Whether it’s asd, sociopathy (not that rare) or just rigidity, she will need tools and trusted confidantes to have a happy life and relationships.

Don’t shame her or guilt her but ask her to talk to you about these things in private rather than with siblings. Kudos for asking the question, OP. I know parents who have one child seriously lacking in empathy and they’re in total denial.

“Empathy” is a pretty subjective concept that is IMO not appropriately applied most often. People talk about it as if kids are supposed to be literal angels. All OP said is that the girl doesn’t like babies and said something designed to get attention about it. She plays well with siblings and friends. There is no “empathy” issue here.

The first post is not indicated she plays well with young kids it's actually her younger siblings that do better with the cousins but she has absolutely nothing to do with them.
Okay I'll be honest I think you're in denial that she doesn't have issues at school if she's this rigid and dismissive of people then she's having issues at school. She says weird things outlandish things super rigid. Does she have close friends? does she have more than a few friends? is she invited to things? More than that the absence of issues does not technically mean that there are no issues. If she's not getting into fights and she's doing her school work then she's going to get no attention from teachers or the admin. This is technically why girls are underdiagnosed in a lot of different areas because unless they are actively creating problems then there are other issues for admin and teachers to deal with.
You know your child outside of academic areas and you need to see the whole picture and not just that she's a good girl who gets good grades or that she's super smart. There is more to navigating the adult world than being smart.
And for those of you insist that if this were a boy that wouldn't be an issue you have some severe gender issues if my son we're 11 years old and said that I would seriously be concerned. One they need to learn how to say that they don't like things without being insulting. And two she's 11 not quite in that tween shock statement era. And three she actually has behaviors that back up her statement so that makes it more concerning because it's not just a shock statement. Four at this age you would expect that yes they say shocking statements but to have no concern about the backlash from it societally is also concerning.

11 is the epicenter of tween shock value.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is concerning.

They say when little kids say stuff like "I want 10 babies when I grow up" that is a reflection that the people around them are positive about *them* , think kids are great and they know they are loved.

I'd be worried that someone made your 11 y/o feel deeply unloved as a tiny baby.

That’s absurd. But sure, there is some therapist willing to take $250/hr to explore this.

Agree. This isn’t something I would see a therapist over. If she behaves normally and isn’t torturing animals or drawing pictures of dead babies, I would just leave this alone. So she hates babies and doesn’t want kids. Oh well.

A lot of tweens and teens aren’t into babies. A lot don’t want babies. She’s crossed the line claiming to let a baby die and said it in front of younger children.

If an adult asked 50 children that age what would they do if they were walking home and saw a baby alone on the sidewalk, how many do you think would say “I’d leave the baby to die”?

+ 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the comments are grounds for more watchfulness but could end up being nothing. My sixth grade classmates had a whole series of "dead baby jokes" that I found absurdly hilarious and freely repeated to agemates.

Also, these days intense kids like Greta Thunberg are held up as models for being earth-conscious. That might be an influence.

Kids do say all kinds of things to get a reaction. They try things out on parents to see what response they get and go from there.

+1. Also, social media is filled with people with a shallow knowledge of the issue who say stuff like people need to stop having kids. Even if OP’s child is not on social media, they might be parroting something from a friend.

Side note: what has Greta Thunberg ever really done other than be white? There is so much attention paid to her and very little to actually researchers and engineers who are trying to problem-solve our way out of this mess.