Does this warrant an appointment with a counselor?

[Anonymous]

Sometimes you just need to tell a kid not to say something. Just to stop it, that it's rude or whatever. Again and again if they keep doing it. The next thing that happens is they say it at school and get in trouble, get a bad reputation, sonyou need to do this. Some kids just say out loud whatever they're thinking and they need to learn to regulate it. Everyone has dark and unkind thoughts and needs to learn to control behavior around others. Some have a harder time of it and need direction to stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I'm trying to think back to how I was as a kid, and I don't think I liked babies, toddlers, or dolls either when I was young. Honestly, it really wasn't until I became a mom that I developed that affection, protectiveness, and Awww kind of instinct with young children.

I guess I'm trying to think from an outside perspective, ie, if my kids were to say that out loud to someone else, like at school, they might be concerned. She says a lot of things that, out of context, could trigger someone to flag her for counseling. She passionately loves animals and is the type to save every worm or ant and will get really upset if people kill bugs. But at the same time, she'd say she wants to dissect animals, out of curiosity. We do have a lot of M.D.s in our family - but that's the type of thing that out of context, people might get very worried for her. She does seem to like to push the envelope with us (and only us) in terms of saying things that she probably suspects would be concerning or problematic.

And yes, I suspect pretty much all of us either have adhd or asd. Our kids are not on any social media. But I have caught my oldest looking up things that she should not have been exposed to. Like those horrible animal farming videos where they show the terrible conditions they live in. And I can see how much it upset her. And angered her. She is too curious for her own good. She holds very extreme points of view, and cannot seem to allow room for nuance.

Our kids are close. One second they are fighting and annoying each other, and the other second, they are like best friends. Our oldest has been a good teacher to her younger sibs. She's a natural, patient teacher. She's mean and can punch/kick when she's pushed, or someone keeps invading her space, in a reactive way. But never in a malicious way. She holds onto anger, from years past, as if it just happened. Our kids have no issues at school.

There are indications of inflexibility here that I would be concerned about since black and white thinking can 1) limit social relationships, 2) limit learning, 3) limit career growth in the future, 4) lead to unhealthy attitudes toward food, exercise etc, and 5) frankly limits her happiness and others’ tolerance of her.

Particularly with your observations about long standing grudges, lack of appreciation of nuance, and possibly making deliberately shocking statements, as a parent, I would want to know more about what to expect in the future. I am not experienced in receiving therapy either for myself or my kids, but I would seek help if one of my kids had black and white thinking and failed to see nuance, especially by the age of 11. I would not be as concerned about wanting to dissect animals, caring for animals more than for people, or associating climate change with overpopulation. But I would be concerned about the long standing grudges, the deliberately shocking statements about leaving babies to die, and rigid thinking.

[Anonymous]

Dam get get to therapy asap

[Anonymous]

I wonder if this were a boy saying this if the response are the same. My tween boy says he doesn't like babies or little kids. He was on flight where a baby cried for hours and toddlers screamed which reinforced his opinion. Somehow I don't think people are as concerned when boys say this compared to girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our kids, oldest is 11, really dislike babies and toddlers. Our oldest has been like this since she herself was a toddler. Disliked dolls also. She’s very vocal about her dislike and I think the younger ones pick up on it.

Recently, she said something concerning. She said that if she saw a baby stranded on the side of the road, she would just leave it to die. The younger ones chimed in to say that they would do the same. Said that she hates babies and there’s too many humans on this planet and humans ruin everything. Knowing her I think it’s just that she thinks so black and white and knows way too much about the causes of climate change and then coupled with her already dislike of babies, she logically thinks it’s better to let the baby die.

I have tried to change their view of babies and toddlers but to no avail. They have younger cousins who adore them. But our kids want nothing to do with them. They have never ever been mean or unkind, but they generally ignore them. I feel bad that they are not friendlier. Our younger ones are a bit more flexible. Even though they hate them and complain about them to us, they will be nice enough to play with them, answer their questions, help them with something, or teach them something- albeit begrudgingly (on the inside).

Our oldest won’t even do that though.

She says similar things about humans in general- just a lack of concern, empathy, and value for someone’s life.

Would you be concerned?

I would be very concerned because lack of empathy is a strong indicator of psychopathy and leaving a baby on the side of the road to die is as lacking in basic empathy as it gets. I realize she’s just saying it and may not actually act in that way given the circumstances but I think more normative thinking in a child would be geared toward nurture and compassion even if they didn’t want babies or like babies themselves.

I don’t meant to put fear in you but having worked for years in criminal justice I have a lot of experience with abnormal psychology having read hundreds upon hundreds of psych assessments tied to juvenile and adult criminal cases.

There is new thinking about identifying psychopathy in kids and intervening with early treatment in family therapy that teaches parents the tools to teach empathy and the research and clinical work in juvenile systems suggests the earlier kids get intervention the better they can do functioning in life and society. Not all psychopaths are violent criminals I’m not suggesting that - but all psychopaths who don’t get treatment will suffer emotional disconnect in their human experience so I think it is worth considering.

Here’s an article to get you started and I do suggest you contact a good child psychiatrist to get your child assessed and get her and yourselves into family therapy. Even if she doesn’t assess as psychopathy she is clearly struggling with dark thinking and that is not likely to get better by itself as she goes through the upheavals of puberty.

https://modlab.yale.edu/news/there-are-no-child-psychopaths-because-we-cant-diagnose-them-yet-vice

[Anonymous]

Sounds like the female version of dahmer to me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids, oldest is 11, really dislike babies and toddlers. Our oldest has been like this since she herself was a toddler. Disliked dolls also. She’s very vocal about her dislike and I think the younger ones pick up on it.

Recently, she said something concerning. She said that if she saw a baby stranded on the side of the road, she would just leave it to die. The younger ones chimed in to say that they would do the same. Said that she hates babies and there’s too many humans on this planet and humans ruin everything. Knowing her I think it’s just that she thinks so black and white and knows way too much about the causes of climate change and then coupled with her already dislike of babies, she logically thinks it’s better to let the baby die.

I have tried to change their view of babies and toddlers but to no avail. They have younger cousins who adore them. But our kids want nothing to do with them. They have never ever been mean or unkind, but they generally ignore them. I feel bad that they are not friendlier. Our younger ones are a bit more flexible. Even though they hate them and complain about them to us, they will be nice enough to play with them, answer their questions, help them with something, or teach them something- albeit begrudgingly (on the inside).

Our oldest won’t even do that though.

She says similar things about humans in general- just a lack of concern, empathy, and value for someone’s life.

Would you be concerned?

I would be very concerned because lack of empathy is a strong indicator of psychopathy and leaving a baby on the side of the road to die is as lacking in basic empathy as it gets. I realize she’s just saying it and may not actually act in that way given the circumstances but I think more normative thinking in a child would be geared toward nurture and compassion even if they didn’t want babies or like babies themselves.

I don’t meant to put fear in you but having worked for years in criminal justice I have a lot of experience with abnormal psychology having read hundreds upon hundreds of psych assessments tied to juvenile and adult criminal cases.

There is new thinking about identifying psychopathy in kids and intervening with early treatment in family therapy that teaches parents the tools to teach empathy and the research and clinical work in juvenile systems suggests the earlier kids get intervention the better they can do functioning in life and society. Not all psychopaths are violent criminals I’m not suggesting that - but all psychopaths who don’t get treatment will suffer emotional disconnect in their human experience so I think it is worth considering.

Here’s an article to get you started and I do suggest you contact a good child psychiatrist to get your child assessed and get her and yourselves into family therapy. Even if she doesn’t assess as psychopathy she is clearly struggling with dark thinking and that is not likely to get better by itself as she goes through the upheavals of puberty.

https://modlab.yale.edu/news/there-are-no-child-psychopaths-because-we-cant-diagnose-them-yet-vice

Omg. How is trying to label a young child a psychopath remotely helpful? One who has never actually been violent, loves animals, does well in school, is kind to peers and siblings, and is unfailingly honest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like the female version of dahmer to me

Agree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids, oldest is 11, really dislike babies and toddlers. Our oldest has been like this since she herself was a toddler. Disliked dolls also. She’s very vocal about her dislike and I think the younger ones pick up on it.

Recently, she said something concerning. She said that if she saw a baby stranded on the side of the road, she would just leave it to die. The younger ones chimed in to say that they would do the same. Said that she hates babies and there’s too many humans on this planet and humans ruin everything. Knowing her I think it’s just that she thinks so black and white and knows way too much about the causes of climate change and then coupled with her already dislike of babies, she logically thinks it’s better to let the baby die.

I have tried to change their view of babies and toddlers but to no avail. They have younger cousins who adore them. But our kids want nothing to do with them. They have never ever been mean or unkind, but they generally ignore them. I feel bad that they are not friendlier. Our younger ones are a bit more flexible. Even though they hate them and complain about them to us, they will be nice enough to play with them, answer their questions, help them with something, or teach them something- albeit begrudgingly (on the inside).

Our oldest won’t even do that though.

She says similar things about humans in general- just a lack of concern, empathy, and value for someone’s life.

Would you be concerned?

Me again. It’s also not logical to think leaving a baby to die would help with climate change, and it’s not logical to hate an entire group of people (babies and toddlers). She would leave it to die because she just hates babies.

My 11 year old one week said she wanted NO babies, to the next week saying she wanted 13. One week she’ll say seriously that she wants to quit dance, the next that she wants to add a class. I’m useless, I’m the best mom in the world, etc. Tweens are highly emotional and emotional people just say things that flit in and out of their brain. That doesn’t make her autistic (and er… liking or not liking babies isn’t an asd characteristic. Really.)
Anyway, I suspect that if she REALLY encountered a baby on the side of the road, she wouldn’t just leave her there. Does she enjoy her sibling’s pain when they get accidentally hurt? Show concern in the face of your suffering or friend’s suffering?
I would stop overthinking it and definitely don’t get a therapist (because I doubt very much that if she learned you took her to a therapist for fear that she’s a sociopath that that will be good for her mental heath).
Ignore and move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids, oldest is 11, really dislike babies and toddlers. Our oldest has been like this since she herself was a toddler. Disliked dolls also. She’s very vocal about her dislike and I think the younger ones pick up on it.

Recently, she said something concerning. She said that if she saw a baby stranded on the side of the road, she would just leave it to die. The younger ones chimed in to say that they would do the same. Said that she hates babies and there’s too many humans on this planet and humans ruin everything. Knowing her I think it’s just that she thinks so black and white and knows way too much about the causes of climate change and then coupled with her already dislike of babies, she logically thinks it’s better to let the baby die.

I have tried to change their view of babies and toddlers but to no avail. They have younger cousins who adore them. But our kids want nothing to do with them. They have never ever been mean or unkind, but they generally ignore them. I feel bad that they are not friendlier. Our younger ones are a bit more flexible. Even though they hate them and complain about them to us, they will be nice enough to play with them, answer their questions, help them with something, or teach them something- albeit begrudgingly (on the inside).

Our oldest won’t even do that though.

She says similar things about humans in general- just a lack of concern, empathy, and value for someone’s life.

Would you be concerned?

I would be very concerned because lack of empathy is a strong indicator of psychopathy and leaving a baby on the side of the road to die is as lacking in basic empathy as it gets. I realize she’s just saying it and may not actually act in that way given the circumstances but I think more normative thinking in a child would be geared toward nurture and compassion even if they didn’t want babies or like babies themselves.

I don’t meant to put fear in you but having worked for years in criminal justice I have a lot of experience with abnormal psychology having read hundreds upon hundreds of psych assessments tied to juvenile and adult criminal cases.

There is new thinking about identifying psychopathy in kids and intervening with early treatment in family therapy that teaches parents the tools to teach empathy and the research and clinical work in juvenile systems suggests the earlier kids get intervention the better they can do functioning in life and society. Not all psychopaths are violent criminals I’m not suggesting that - but all psychopaths who don’t get treatment will suffer emotional disconnect in their human experience so I think it is worth considering.

Here’s an article to get you started and I do suggest you contact a good child psychiatrist to get your child assessed and get her and yourselves into family therapy. Even if she doesn’t assess as psychopathy she is clearly struggling with dark thinking and that is not likely to get better by itself as she goes through the upheavals of puberty.

https://modlab.yale.edu/news/there-are-no-child-psychopaths-because-we-cant-diagnose-them-yet-vice

Omg. How is trying to label a young child a psychopath remotely helpful? One who has never actually been violent, loves animals, does well in school, is kind to peers and siblings, and is unfailingly honest?

Np. Are you OP? The first post says none of this. Does your oldest child show empathy to their peers and siblings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids, oldest is 11, really dislike babies and toddlers. Our oldest has been like this since she herself was a toddler. Disliked dolls also. She’s very vocal about her dislike and I think the younger ones pick up on it.

Recently, she said something concerning. She said that if she saw a baby stranded on the side of the road, she would just leave it to die. The younger ones chimed in to say that they would do the same. Said that she hates babies and there’s too many humans on this planet and humans ruin everything. Knowing her I think it’s just that she thinks so black and white and knows way too much about the causes of climate change and then coupled with her already dislike of babies, she logically thinks it’s better to let the baby die.

I have tried to change their view of babies and toddlers but to no avail. They have younger cousins who adore them. But our kids want nothing to do with them. They have never ever been mean or unkind, but they generally ignore them. I feel bad that they are not friendlier. Our younger ones are a bit more flexible. Even though they hate them and complain about them to us, they will be nice enough to play with them, answer their questions, help them with something, or teach them something- albeit begrudgingly (on the inside).

Our oldest won’t even do that though.

She says similar things about humans in general- just a lack of concern, empathy, and value for someone’s life.

Would you be concerned?

I would be very concerned because lack of empathy is a strong indicator of psychopathy and leaving a baby on the side of the road to die is as lacking in basic empathy as it gets. I realize she’s just saying it and may not actually act in that way given the circumstances but I think more normative thinking in a child would be geared toward nurture and compassion even if they didn’t want babies or like babies themselves.

I don’t meant to put fear in you but having worked for years in criminal justice I have a lot of experience with abnormal psychology having read hundreds upon hundreds of psych assessments tied to juvenile and adult criminal cases.

There is new thinking about identifying psychopathy in kids and intervening with early treatment in family therapy that teaches parents the tools to teach empathy and the research and clinical work in juvenile systems suggests the earlier kids get intervention the better they can do functioning in life and society. Not all psychopaths are violent criminals I’m not suggesting that - but all psychopaths who don’t get treatment will suffer emotional disconnect in their human experience so I think it is worth considering.

Here’s an article to get you started and I do suggest you contact a good child psychiatrist to get your child assessed and get her and yourselves into family therapy. Even if she doesn’t assess as psychopathy she is clearly struggling with dark thinking and that is not likely to get better by itself as she goes through the upheavals of puberty.

https://modlab.yale.edu/news/there-are-no-child-psychopaths-because-we-cant-diagnose-them-yet-vice

Omg. How is trying to label a young child a psychopath remotely helpful? One who has never actually been violent, loves animals, does well in school, is kind to peers and siblings, and is unfailingly honest?

Np. Are you OP? The first post says none of this. Does your oldest child show empathy to their peers and siblings?

Not empathy exactly. But complete acceptance. Lack of judgment. Patience. Zero manipulation, lies, or cruel behaviors.

[Anonymous]

I think the comments are grounds for more watchfulness but could end up being nothing. My sixth grade classmates had a whole series of "dead baby jokes" that I found absurdly hilarious and freely repeated to agemates.

Also, these days intense kids like Greta Thunberg are held up as models for being earth-conscious. That might be an influence.

Kids do say all kinds of things to get a reaction. They try things out on parents to see what response they get and go from there.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn’t worry that much about the comments about babies. But if you honestly think your kid has ADHD or autism, for her sake get her assessed. If she is not neurodivergent, you have reassurance she’s okay and have spent a little time and a lot of money on the assessment.

If she is neurodivergent and you don’t have her assessed, she might be able to muddle through life without support but her life would be so much easier with help- such as someone explicitly explaining why saying you would let a baby die would be disturbing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is concerning.

They say when little kids say stuff like "I want 10 babies when I grow up" that is a reflection that the people around them are positive about *them* , think kids are great and they know they are loved.

I'd be worried that someone made your 11 y/o feel deeply unloved as a tiny baby.

That’s absurd. But sure, there is some therapist willing to take $250/hr to explore this.

Do you not believe in therapy for anything?

NP. Of course. But not for ANYTHING. Especially things that any competent loving mother could and should handle

You are a loon

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes you just need to tell a kid not to say something. Just to stop it, that it's rude or whatever. Again and again if they keep doing it. The next thing that happens is they say it at school and get in trouble, get a bad reputation, sonyou need to do this. Some kids just say out loud whatever they're thinking and they need to learn to regulate it. Everyone has dark and unkind thoughts and needs to learn to control behavior around others. Some have a harder time of it and need direction to stop.

This is really good advice and it’s neutral - I don’t understand why more parents won’t do this. You can have any feeling. You can’t express it any damned way, and you can’t put up a wall if your parent wants to figure out the why. I really believe a not-insignificant percentage of and ever-growing number of parents are unwilling to be in charge, unwilling to take on any of the discomfort of being truly responsible and involved and frankly, interactive, with their own children.