Asked to be a witness in a custody dispute involving my son's kindergarten friend

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks so much, everybody, for your amazingly helpful thoughts. Yes, I need to bow out. I agree I probably shouldn't have been asked and placed in this awkward position.

I also feel a bit gross because what if the playdates that he recently initiated were opportunistically motivated?

I don't know. I feel bad for parents going through these things. Geez, they can get ugly.

[Anonymous]

Just answer any question honestly. It's up to the lawyer's to determine usefulness. You aren't "getting involved"

[Anonymous]

You should send his attorney a letter indicating that you don't know him well enough to provide helpful testimony. That's all you need to say. The atty will understand. If you don't send the letter you're going to get subpoenaed and waste a lot of time and stress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you should say ok unless you happen to ge super good friends with the mom and it would sever that friendship

Fwiw DD started at a new school in 4th and I met a new mom and heard some awful stuff about the dad. There was a protective order for a while etc. I formed an opinion ahead of time. Then I met the Dad and he’s great with his kid, super social with other parents, brings the kid to parties if it’s his weekend etc. I don’t k is the true story so I just do my best to get on with both of them.

Lady you never know what transpired in private. Many are good at masking. My ex could put on a father of the year show but he hit me and my kid repeatedly and screams insane abuse behind closed doors.

I’m the poster you responded too. I totally agree with you about putting on a fake face, but, if he was that abusive I doubt the child would want to be with him. You can see the love between the 2 of them when they’re together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you should say ok unless you happen to ge super good friends with the mom and it would sever that friendship

Fwiw DD started at a new school in 4th and I met a new mom and heard some awful stuff about the dad. There was a protective order for a while etc. I formed an opinion ahead of time. Then I met the Dad and he’s great with his kid, super social with other parents, brings the kid to parties if it’s his weekend etc. I don’t k is the true story so I just do my best to get on with both of them.

Lady you never know what transpired in private. Many are good at masking. My ex could put on a father of the year show but he hit me and my kid repeatedly and screams insane abuse behind closed doors.

I’m the poster you responded too. I totally agree with you about putting on a fake face, but, if he was that abusive I doubt the child would want to be with him. You can see the love between the 2 of them when they’re together.

Sadly, little kids love their abusive parents. I know because I adored my dad until I was 8 and had to stop him from killing my mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I also feel a bit gross because what if the playdates that he recently initiated were opportunistically motivated?

They likely were. I’m sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks so much, everybody, for your amazingly helpful thoughts. Yes, I need to bow out. I agree I probably shouldn't have been asked and placed in this awkward position.

I also feel a bit gross because what if the playdates that he recently initiated were opportunistically motivated?

I don't know. I feel bad for parents going through these things. Geez, they can get ugly.

OP, please be reassured that you're doing the right thing for both yourself AND this child by saying no to testifying.

The dad might be trying to manipulate you and the process, or he might be truly a great dad, but you simply cannot know, either way, based on your very limited interactions with him. The right thing to do for that child is to say no. Like others have noted already, it's odd at best, and a bit suspcious at worst, that the father is asking someone he knows so little to be a character witness. Let him have to find another one. The court may see through it, if it's clear the dad can't produce witnesses who actually know him and his child WELL.

But turn him down with some care, and here's why: If you can continue to stay at least civil with both the dad and the mom, it could be good for their child if your child can keep being friends and even having playdates outside school. That kid's going to need friends and fun, if he or she is the center of a nasty custody dispute. Never get dragged in, don't listen to either of them talk about the other ("I realize you have custody issues being resolved, but I'd rather focus just on the kids..." could work for you). And distance yourself and your child if you feel you're both being used in any way by either parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you should say ok unless you happen to ge super good friends with the mom and it would sever that friendship

Fwiw DD started at a new school in 4th and I met a new mom and heard some awful stuff about the dad. There was a protective order for a while etc. I formed an opinion ahead of time. Then I met the Dad and he’s great with his kid, super social with other parents, brings the kid to parties if it’s his weekend etc. I don’t k is the true story so I just do my best to get on with both of them.

Lady you never know what transpired in private. Many are good at masking. My ex could put on a father of the year show but he hit me and my kid repeatedly and screams insane abuse behind closed doors.

I’m the poster you responded too. I totally agree with you about putting on a fake face, but, if he was that abusive I doubt the child would want to be with him. You can see the love between the 2 of them when they’re together.

DP
That does not mean anything. My DH is seriously verbally and emotionally abusive, he has screamed at me in front of the kids and even tried to put a false assault charge on me. However since he is aware divorce is a possibility he has gone out of his way to bribe the kids with unending screen time, sweets, and gifts. I am the bad guy with the rules. They just adore him.

Again, be very careful what you assume. Unless you have experience with people with personality disorders you have no idea what you’re seeing in public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks so much, everybody, for your amazingly helpful thoughts. Yes, I need to bow out. I agree I probably shouldn't have been asked and placed in this awkward position.

I also feel a bit gross because what if the playdates that he recently initiated were opportunistically motivated?

I don't know. I feel bad for parents going through these things. Geez, they can get ugly.

I remember watching a family’s divorce in elementary school.

The dad traveled a ton and then out of the blue after radio silence Pk-2 started emailing back and texting groups of parents or teachers. Like suddenly he woke up and needed to pretend to know what was going on. Cheery messages gushing shallow thanks to teachers or parents. Asking for long playdates on the weekend out.

It was short lived. Just happened during the separation. Then went back to radio silence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you should say ok unless you happen to ge super good friends with the mom and it would sever that friendship

Fwiw DD started at a new school in 4th and I met a new mom and heard some awful stuff about the dad. There was a protective order for a while etc. I formed an opinion ahead of time. Then I met the Dad and he’s great with his kid, super social with other parents, brings the kid to parties if it’s his weekend etc. I don’t k is the true story so I just do my best to get on with both of them.

Lady you never know what transpired in private. Many are good at masking. My ex could put on a father of the year show but he hit me and my kid repeatedly and screams insane abuse behind closed doors.

I’m the poster you responded too. I totally agree with you about putting on a fake face, but, if he was that abusive I doubt the child would want to be with him. You can see the love between the 2 of them when they’re together.

DP
That does not mean anything. My DH is seriously verbally and emotionally abusive, he has screamed at me in front of the kids and even tried to put a false assault charge on me. However since he is aware divorce is a possibility he has gone out of his way to bribe the kids with unending screen time, sweets, and gifts. I am the bad guy with the rules. They just adore him.

Again, be very careful what you assume. Unless you have experience with people with personality disorders you have no idea what you’re seeing in public.

+1000

Spoiling is not parenting

[Anonymous]

I’d tell him to have his lawyer contact you. I’d meet with his lawyer on my schedule on my terms, I wouldn’t miss work, activities with kids, time with my spouse. You can also ask to meet with the judge hearing the case, judges after all are just people, they “put their pants on one leg at a time, just like the rest of us” to use an old expression. If I was told “The judge won’t talk to you” I’d go to the judges boss, I may even go to the media with it, reporters are hungry for stories. It’d not get a lot of press, but a little might be all you need. Don’t let people or situations intimidate you, certainly when you have done nothing wrong. I guarantee someone on here will come on and say this “isn’t done” or ‘can’t be done” but it can, the courthouse is open to the public, judges work for the public, you’re part of the public, you can talk to anybody you need to talk to. The same goes for the lawyer, which he’d better pay for, you want me to appear in court, under oath, I will be talking to your lawyer. If he misbehaves, you always have the guy’s ex-wife and her legal people to talk to, don’t forget that. You are in a strong position here, op. I don’t understand why you can’t see that. You have been asked by a party in a dispute to be a witness, you have every right to ask whatever questions you need. Remind everybody you were never married to the dad or his wife, you didn’t break up the marriage, the only reason you are here is because your kid plays with his kid. Say this often.. if it’s true. Is it?
This is what you do if you really do want to help the guy. Remind him you are helping, not guaranteeing he’ll like the outcome. Remind him this is a big deal and this is new for you. If you don’t like how he treats you, literally take it to the judge, the police, his ex, anybody you need to tell.
Btw, are you married? You don’t mention a spouse, where is he and what is his opinion? I’d ask the dad why *you* are asked, not you and your spouse.

Lastly, if you truly think his ex is correct in what she says, why the f**ck do you let your kid play with his? At 5, this is easy “Mom, can I see Johnny” “no, we were going to go play, then I need to go to the store, Thanksgiving is coming up, what special food should we get”? Real easy at 5 to keep your distance from this dad socially if that’s what you wanted to do.
Remember too, the person you don’t like today may be fine once whatever stressor has passed, and may turn out to be a real good friend. Take care of yourself first, make sure your own family is safe emotionally and physically, but I’d not be stressing about this. Personally, I’m stuck on your “I want to help the guy out” like he’s your little brother wanting a slice of pizza Mom already said no to” and your “What if it’s true, he’s a big bad scary man after all”. Which is it op? Do you want to date the guy if the hearing turns out how you want it to go? Of course you don’t know “what really happened”, the lawyers and judges don’t either and we pay them for their time in court. You aren’t as unique as you think and the courtroom will be full of people who truly don’t know what did or didn’t happen in that marriage or with those kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I’d tell him to have his lawyer contact you. I’d meet with his lawyer on my schedule on my terms, I wouldn’t miss work, activities with kids, time with my spouse. You can also ask to meet with the judge hearing the case, judges after all are just people, they “put their pants on one leg at a time, just like the rest of us” to use an old expression. If I was told “The judge won’t talk to you” I’d go to the judges boss, I may even go to the media with it, reporters are hungry for stories. It’d not get a lot of press, but a little might be all you need. Don’t let people or situations intimidate you, certainly when you have done nothing wrong. I guarantee someone on here will come on and say this “isn’t done” or ‘can’t be done” but it can, the courthouse is open to the public, judges work for the public, you’re part of the public, you can talk to anybody you need to talk to. The same goes for the lawyer, which he’d better pay for, you want me to appear in court, under oath, I will be talking to your lawyer. If he misbehaves, you always have the guy’s ex-wife and her legal people to talk to, don’t forget that. You are in a strong position here, op. I don’t understand why you can’t see that. You have been asked by a party in a dispute to be a witness, you have every right to ask whatever questions you need. Remind everybody you were never married to the dad or his wife, you didn’t break up the marriage, the only reason you are here is because your kid plays with his kid. Say this often.. if it’s true. Is it?
This is what you do if you really do want to help the guy. Remind him you are helping, not guaranteeing he’ll like the outcome. Remind him this is a big deal and this is new for you. If you don’t like how he treats you, literally take it to the judge, the police, his ex, anybody you need to tell.
Btw, are you married? You don’t mention a spouse, where is he and what is his opinion? I’d ask the dad why *you* are asked, not you and your spouse.

Lastly, if you truly think his ex is correct in what she says, why the f**ck do you let your kid play with his? At 5, this is easy “Mom, can I see Johnny” “no, we were going to go play, then I need to go to the store, Thanksgiving is coming up, what special food should we get”? Real easy at 5 to keep your distance from this dad socially if that’s what you wanted to do.
Remember too, the person you don’t like today may be fine once whatever stressor has passed, and may turn out to be a real good friend. Take care of yourself first, make sure your own family is safe emotionally and physically, but I’d not be stressing about this. Personally, I’m stuck on your “I want to help the guy out” like he’s your little brother wanting a slice of pizza Mom already said no to” and your “What if it’s true, he’s a big bad scary man after all”. Which is it op? Do you want to date the guy if the hearing turns out how you want it to go? Of course you don’t know “what really happened”, the lawyers and judges don’t either and we pay them for their time in court. You aren’t as unique as you think and the courtroom will be full of people who truly don’t know what did or didn’t happen in that marriage or with those kids.

What in the world salad…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a witness, stick to facts, not opinions.
As in, when you were present, did the father arrive on time to drop off or pick up his child, did he feed his child at mealtimes, did he raise his voice, did you see him do X, Y, Z act on his child, did he insult his child with X, Y, Z words, did you see him drunk, use drugs or drive erratically, etc.

Very, very factual. No injection of opinion at all. The father will have to determine with his lawyer whether that's sufficient. You're not in a position to gush and say: "in all the years I've know Josh, he's been the best father that Larlo could ever ask for, blah blah blah...".

This. My DH was a witness in a friend's custody dispute. They're not going to ask you who you think is a better parent. Just your observations.

+1

+2

[Anonymous]

This happened to me many years ago! I cooperated because the mother asked me to be a character witness. It was awkward because I knew the father and on his weekends the kids frequently spent the night at my house. I did not want to make things awkward for my kids and his kids friendship, but I just answered honestly to all questions asked. They did prep me with what type of questions they would ask and I was fortunate that they did not ask anything that would put me into a weird situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I’d tell him to have his lawyer contact you. I’d meet with his lawyer on my schedule on my terms, I wouldn’t miss work, activities with kids, time with my spouse. You can also ask to meet with the judge hearing the case, judges after all are just people, they “put their pants on one leg at a time, just like the rest of us” to use an old expression. If I was told “The judge won’t talk to you” I’d go to the judges boss, I may even go to the media with it, reporters are hungry for stories. It’d not get a lot of press, but a little might be all you need. Don’t let people or situations intimidate you, certainly when you have done nothing wrong. I guarantee someone on here will come on and say this “isn’t done” or ‘can’t be done” but it can, the courthouse is open to the public, judges work for the public, you’re part of the public, you can talk to anybody you need to talk to. The same goes for the lawyer, which he’d better pay for, you want me to appear in court, under oath, I will be talking to your lawyer. If he misbehaves, you always have the guy’s ex-wife and her legal people to talk to, don’t forget that. You are in a strong position here, op. I don’t understand why you can’t see that. You have been asked by a party in a dispute to be a witness, you have every right to ask whatever questions you need. Remind everybody you were never married to the dad or his wife, you didn’t break up the marriage, the only reason you are here is because your kid plays with his kid. Say this often.. if it’s true. Is it?
This is what you do if you really do want to help the guy. Remind him you are helping, not guaranteeing he’ll like the outcome. Remind him this is a big deal and this is new for you. If you don’t like how he treats you, literally take it to the judge, the police, his ex, anybody you need to tell.
Btw, are you married? You don’t mention a spouse, where is he and what is his opinion? I’d ask the dad why *you* are asked, not you and your spouse.

Lastly, if you truly think his ex is correct in what she says, why the f**ck do you let your kid play with his? At 5, this is easy “Mom, can I see Johnny” “no, we were going to go play, then I need to go to the store, Thanksgiving is coming up, what special food should we get”? Real easy at 5 to keep your distance from this dad socially if that’s what you wanted to do.
Remember too, the person you don’t like today may be fine once whatever stressor has passed, and may turn out to be a real good friend. Take care of yourself first, make sure your own family is safe emotionally and physically, but I’d not be stressing about this. Personally, I’m stuck on your “I want to help the guy out” like he’s your little brother wanting a slice of pizza Mom already said no to” and your “What if it’s true, he’s a big bad scary man after all”. Which is it op? Do you want to date the guy if the hearing turns out how you want it to go? Of course you don’t know “what really happened”, the lawyers and judges don’t either and we pay them for their time in court. You aren’t as unique as you think and the courtroom will be full of people who truly don’t know what did or didn’t happen in that marriage or with those kids.

What in the world salad…

I quit reading after something about the judge's boss. Pp would be an awful witness - doesn't know when to shut up.