Asked to be a witness in a custody dispute involving my son's kindergarten friend

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a witness, stick to facts, not opinions.
As in, when you were present, did the father arrive on time to drop off or pick up his child, did he feed his child at mealtimes, did he raise his voice, did you see him do X, Y, Z act on his child, did he insult his child with X, Y, Z words, did you see him drunk, use drugs or drive erratically, etc.

Very, very factual. No injection of opinion at all. The father will have to determine with his lawyer whether that's sufficient. You're not in a position to gush and say: "in all the years I've know Josh, he's been the best father that Larlo could ever ask for, blah blah blah...".

OP you can't answer.any of the above. You don't know when the pickup times were that the parents agreed to. You don't know what the meal arrangements.were. you can't testify that you saw him drunk unless it was glaringly obvious and you actually saw him drink alcohol.

Factual means: "I saw him between 4-6 times at soccer games. I know him as one of the parents of my childs teammates. I may have said hello to him at these games or briefly exchanged pleasantries as I would with any other parent. I do not recall any specific conversations. I have no personal knowledge of what is going on between him and his spouse or within his family as other than the soccer games I have had no or minimal interactions with him. I have no personal information suggesting he is not a good parent, but the same is true as regards my lack of knowledge concerning the mom. I do not have sufficient knowledge of his character to meaningfully provide a character reference nor do I have sufficient knowledge as to his reputation in the community to be able to testify about that either."

You are very stupid. I was presenting examples, since OP mentioned the kids played together. If OP invited this kid for a playdate, or the father invited OP and kid to a playdate at his place, such interactions might have been observed. The entire point of my post is that OP be factual about the number of times OP observed this person with his child, and how they behaved around the child.

If OP does not want to be a witness, cool.
If they're fine being a witness, all it involves is telling the truth.

And to the other PP with their definition of character witness, they can be difficult to find when people move around a lot and don't get involved in their community. Perhaps the father in question has lined up other character witnesses, but he also would like an additional point of view.

It's not complicated. People are not thinking rationally here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you should say ok unless you happen to ge super good friends with the mom and it would sever that friendship

Fwiw DD started at a new school in 4th and I met a new mom and heard some awful stuff about the dad. There was a protective order for a while etc. I formed an opinion ahead of time. Then I met the Dad and he’s great with his kid, super social with other parents, brings the kid to parties if it’s his weekend etc. I don’t k is the true story so I just do my best to get on with both of them.

Lady you never know what transpired in private. Many are good at masking. My ex could put on a father of the year show but he hit me and my kid repeatedly and screams insane abuse behind closed doors.

[Anonymous]

Stay out of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The tough part about this is even if they end up in a split custody situation you may need to be on good terms with both of them. Being a character witness may cause the other party to hold it against you which could damage your kids relationship with the other child. It shouldn't but a lot of people can't compartmentalize this stuff.

To be sure, only a person of bad character and presumably a bad parent would be that petty and hold such a grudge

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you should say ok unless you happen to ge super good friends with the mom and it would sever that friendship

Fwiw DD started at a new school in 4th and I met a new mom and heard some awful stuff about the dad. There was a protective order for a while etc. I formed an opinion ahead of time. Then I met the Dad and he’s great with his kid, super social with other parents, brings the kid to parties if it’s his weekend etc. I don’t k is the true story so I just do my best to get on with both of them.

Lady you never know what transpired in private. Many are good at masking. My ex could put on a father of the year show but he hit me and my kid repeatedly and screams insane abuse behind closed doors.

I mean wimmins behave this too. Enough with this ominous masking bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a witness, stick to facts, not opinions.
As in, when you were present, did the father arrive on time to drop off or pick up his child, did he feed his child at mealtimes, did he raise his voice, did you see him do X, Y, Z act on his child, did he insult his child with X, Y, Z words, did you see him drunk, use drugs or drive erratically, etc.

Very, very factual. No injection of opinion at all. The father will have to determine with his lawyer whether that's sufficient. You're not in a position to gush and say: "in all the years I've know Josh, he's been the best father that Larlo could ever ask for, blah blah blah...".

OP you can't answer.any of the above. You don't know when the pickup times were that the parents agreed to. You don't know what the meal arrangements.were. you can't testify that you saw him drunk unless it was glaringly obvious and you actually saw him drink alcohol.

Factual means: "I saw him between 4-6 times at soccer games. I know him as one of the parents of my childs teammates. I may have said hello to him at these games or briefly exchanged pleasantries as I would with any other parent. I do not recall any specific conversations. I have no personal knowledge of what is going on between him and his spouse or within his family as other than the soccer games I have had no or minimal interactions with him. I have no personal information suggesting he is not a good parent, but the same is true as regards my lack of knowledge concerning the mom. I do not have sufficient knowledge of his character to meaningfully provide a character reference nor do I have sufficient knowledge as to his reputation in the community to be able to testify about that either."

You are very stupid. I was presenting examples, since OP mentioned the kids played together. If OP invited this kid for a playdate, or the father invited OP and kid to a playdate at his place, such interactions might have been observed. The entire point of my post is that OP be factual about the number of times OP observed this person with his child, and how they behaved around the child.

If OP does not want to be a witness, cool.
If they're fine being a witness, all it involves is telling the truth.

And to the other PP with their definition of character witness, they can be difficult to find when people move around a lot and don't get involved in their community. Perhaps the father in question has lined up other character witnesses, but he also would like an additional point of view.

It's not complicated. People are not thinking rationally here.

And you are very smart, if you are a potato. I think you might be

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you should say ok unless you happen to ge super good friends with the mom and it would sever that friendship

Fwiw DD started at a new school in 4th and I met a new mom and heard some awful stuff about the dad. There was a protective order for a while etc. I formed an opinion ahead of time. Then I met the Dad and he’s great with his kid, super social with other parents, brings the kid to parties if it’s his weekend etc. I don’t k is the true story so I just do my best to get on with both of them.

That doesn’t mean anything. Many abusers are charismatic in public. He could be borderline and very high functioning — they only “split” on their closest attachment, e.g. the spouse. You cannot surmise anything about his behavior at home from the fact that he is super social and goes to birthday parties on his weekend.

[Anonymous]

And what does being super good friends with the other spouse have to do with it? You testify based on what you actually know, not based on whether you are friendly with the other spouse. JFC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So last week the father of my son's good classmate/friend/playmate (they're both in K) sort of surprised me by asking me to be a character witness in the dad's and mom's heated custody dispute. The kids just met each other this year, so I've only seen the father interact with his kids a handful of times.

I feel between a rock and a hard place. I want to help the guy out, but I feel like I don't know him very well, and what if the various awful allegations the mother is raising are true?

What should I be thinking about here?

Just say it be better if he picked someone who knew him better, and longer. The end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you should say ok unless you happen to ge super good friends with the mom and it would sever that friendship

Fwiw DD started at a new school in 4th and I met a new mom and heard some awful stuff about the dad. There was a protective order for a while etc. I formed an opinion ahead of time. Then I met the Dad and he’s great with his kid, super social with other parents, brings the kid to parties if it’s his weekend etc. I don’t k is the true story so I just do my best to get on with both of them.

Lady you never know what transpired in private. Many are good at masking. My ex could put on a father of the year show but he hit me and my kid repeatedly and screams insane abuse behind closed doors.

+1

So much this. Mine was an abusive alcoholic - screaming tantrums ranting and raving ,punched holes in the wall, threw plates and dishes around, took a large canvas picture off the wall and broke it over his knee while screaming nonsense, swore at and verbally abused our kids (when our son would cry, would tell him to stop being such a pathetic little p*ssy and so much more), drove drunk with the kids in the car. And so very much more- I could go on and on. He was careful to hide it very well and was very charming and social- you never in a million years would’ve guessed what was happening behind closed doors. Successful professional career too. Is a dentist and did procedures on patients on while still drunk from the night before, which I didn’t realize until later on. Never got caught, his patients love him. Serious stuff.

Be careful what you assume.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So last week the father of my son's good classmate/friend/playmate (they're both in K) sort of surprised me by asking me to be a character witness in the dad's and mom's heated custody dispute. The kids just met each other this year, so I've only seen the father interact with his kids a handful of times.

I feel between a rock and a hard place. I want to help the guy out, but I feel like I don't know him very well, and what if the various awful allegations the mother is raising are true?

What should I be thinking about here?

Just say it be better if he picked someone who knew him better, and longer. The end.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah I wouldn’t get involved here.

+1

Neither would I.
Simply wish this Father the best of luck however let him know that you do not like getting involved w/other people’s personal/family issues, etc.

Personally I think it was absurd of him to even ask you to do this (considering that you do not know him very well,) but he could be simply grasping at straws as he may be feeling desperate due to the situation at hand.

Either way > bow out gracefully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would not get involved here.

Surely there is someone else the dad can ask, who he knows better. You barely know them. If somehow he doesn’t have better witnesses to ask- ones he has known for longer- what does that tell you? Family friends, relatives? Neighbors? Babysitters or childcare providers? Maybe it says nothing. But seems strange enough to me that I would want no part of this. For all you know, he has been on his extra super-best dad behavior around you on purpose- for this reason. Easy to fool someone new, who he has only been around a few times. JMO.

+1

[Anonymous]

I would decline as gracefully as possible so you can stay on polite terms with both parents. The child is a good friend of your child, so you don’t want anyone vindictively denying play dates etc. And you may be one of the few neutral, sane adults around for a while. I would try hard to maintain that so you can be a positive connection for the child.

So many divorcing parents are unstable for a few years before they recover emotionally and get their acts together (not judging), any predictability really helps the kids.

[Anonymous]

You could tell him I’d be willing to talk to your attorney but all I can really say is that you seem to have a good relationship based on the few interactions I’ve seen. Then stick to that because it’s the truth. And if you do talk to the attorney, you still have the choice of testifying or not. If you do, wife’s attorney will probably try to establish that you really have only had limited interactions with the two of them.

I sure he’s desperately trying to make sure he has access to his child, but don’t do anything that you’re uncomfortable with.