SAHMs and marriage dynamics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry if this has been posted about before.

How does being a SAHM change the dynamics of a marriage? I make a similar amount as DH and never have to think twice if I want to buy something for myself (within reason, of course). I expect DH to share housework/childcare equally. We make decisions collectively and neither of us has the final say. Everything just feels very equal and balanced in our relationship. Does that all go out the window if you're a SAHM? How does it work?

Being equal and having equal responsibilities are two different things. If one person is working and commuting for most of the day, distribution is going to be uneven. What matters is having equal respect and say, which is people and circumstances dependent. If you two work as a team, roles and responsibilities are fluid, aim and target are the same.

That being said, don't do it. Not because you two can't do it well but because society will treat you as an outcast and put zero value on your role.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was making a high income but once I had kids I kept my job but worked part-time. My two kids have just graduated college and I am back to full time with the same company. I did not take a major step back in my career like I may have done if I had quit the workforce for 20 years. I thought several times about being a SAHM and had the support of my high income DH. 15 years into the marriage he became a depressed, alcoholic on the verge of losing his job. He has recovered somewhat, for now, but I am thankful I did not become a 100% SAHM and would have been able to support myself and my kids, if need be, without my DH. I realize mine is an extreme situation that I hope no one else has to deal with.

This happens more than you might think. Glad things are better now, PP.

[Anonymous]

I worked for 15 years before I quit to get my SN son to his therapies. Dh is a great guy but I definitely felt the pressure of not being a money earner.

It definitely changed the power balance for us because there was less money.

I am back to work now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a big law partner and a lot of my male colleagues have wives who are SAHMs. I'm not super involved in their marriages, obviously, but just from hearing how they talk amongst themselves, it seems like a lot of them lose respect for their wives. All conversations become about the kids or the household, and they start seeing their wives more as a mother to their kids than a true partner and equal. They do love their wives, and I think their marriages are mostly happy, but it does sometimes feel like they see their colleagues (male and female) as their peers and their wives as a step beneath - and that's with the good ones. As you probably know, cheating is rampant in big law. This may be unique to law, and big law in particular, where people tend to make their career their personality and most of their self worth.

My husband is a big law partner and I’m a SAHM and right now he’s working his a$$ off. What kind of law do you do that gives you time to hang out in DCUM in the middle of the day?

PP - I'm in M&A and just closed two big deals, so I don't have much of anything going on for the next few days. I know you're just being snarky, but for the sake of anyone who is reading this and wondering, big law partners generally do have a decent amount of down time between cases/transactions. If your husband is telling you otherwise, you should be asking questions. The past two years were a bit of an outlier because the corporate market was absolutely insane, but it's started to slow down and go back to normal.

It's real easy to generalize about big law partners, marriages, and genders. I should know, because I was a big law partner who retired (very) early. My spouse was a SAHM. I never consider her to be merely the "mother of my children" and relied on her throughout my career for professional and common sense advice. I also never met a woman partner who was enjoyable to be around or who appeared happy. They were almost universally miserable and nasty, many never married, and many didn't have kids. But, then again, I'm not privy to what they're really thinking or feeling, right? But guess what: you are not privy to what's going on in your law partners' marriages, either.

Idk. Cheating is rampant and often open. Seems pretty disrespectful to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAHMs on here will tell you things are perfect and their DH's respect them as equals, nay, respect them more than ever.

The people with paid jobs on here will tell you this is not the dynamic they observe. The respect is more patronizing, and definitely not as a peer. I agree with the PP above who says law firm partners have an uncomfortable relationship with their sahws. They really do love and respect their wives, but when they say "she has the hardest job in the world" while the DH's work 90 hours a week, can't exercise, don't see their kids, and their doctor is telling them their heart numbers are creeping up.... (none of those things that they are happy about) - there is something disingenuous about the whole thing. At minimum, they definitely don't think of their wives as intellectual peers.

I work but I find this comment more patronizing than most things I've heard working dads say about their SAHM wives, to be honest.

If someone tells me that they have a good dynamic and an equitable marriage, I take them at their word. I find it really gross to sit there and second guess it and say "oh you say that but I think your husband doesn't view you as a peer." It's just crazy judgmental and it's not up to you to decide what the internal dynamic of someone else's marriage is.

This is going to vary a lot depending on the people involved, but PP's attitude that SAHMs cannot be intellectual or truly valued as much as their husband's are really rubs me the wrong way. Raising kids and taking care of a home are valuable jobs that SAHMs don't get paychecks for. I'm sure sometimes their husbands don't respect or appreciate it, but also I think sometimes they do.

Also, you don't need one partner to work 90 hour weeks in order to afford a SAHP. Many single-income families I know of just arrange their budget around one income and that person works reasonable hours. These families are not rich or jetting around the world on vacation or fully funding four 529s or anything, but they are financially sound and have relatively low-stress lives and appear to have good marriages where one spouse works a decent paying job (in most cases making like 200-250k) and the other does a lot of the work they'd otherwise outsource and manages the budget, and it's pretty symbiotic.

I'm the big law partner PP, and just to be clear, I also think men's attitudes about this are gross. I'm just noting my observation that many of the men I'm around don't see their SAHM wives as intellectual equals or providing equally valuable contributions to the family. If anything, I think it's abhorrent that this career path all but requires you to have a stay at home spouse due to the long, unpredictable hours, but then fosters a culture that respects only resume-worthy accomplishments. I agree that SAHMs should be valued and respected, but the fact remains that in many cases, they are not. That is especially hurtful when you consider that many big law partners marry women who they met as classmates at their Ivy League college or law school, or met as coworkers before she took a step back to have kids. It's something I struggle with quite a bit personally; it's difficult to juggle my career and my husband's career while taking care of a family, and we make it work only by hiring a large number of people to handle all of the driving, cooking, cleaning, errands, etc. My husband makes a lot more money than I do and is very supportive of anything that I want to do, but I have yet been able to convince myself to take a step back, in part because I see how these men - colleagues in law firms, C-suite business people I work with, etc. - view their wives and I don't want that in my marriage.

You're contradicting yourself. You say you have this awesome supportive husband and that you're "struggling quite a bit personally," yet you won't step back. Clearly it's because it's YOU who only respects "resume-worthy accomplishments." You're projecting your own insecurities onto others. It's just so odd that you allow what you see men doing (or, more accurately, what you perceive these men to be doing) to influence your own choices.

That contradiction is exactly what I'm struggling with - the balance between supporting my family and my own sense of self worth and accomplishment that I get through work. As I mentioned in my initial post, I do think that law in particular tends to attract people who tie their self worth and identity to their careers, and I'm no exception. It's something I'm working on. There are other reasons I haven't been able to let go yet, of course. I love my job, including the intellectual stimulation and the people I work with, the sense of accomplishment I get when we solve a big issue, the excitement of a deal. My husband is wonderful and supportive, but because he makes so much more than I do, it wouldn't make sense for him to be the one to stay home. I don't resent him, but I do resent the systemic issues that present full investment in my home life versus my career as a binary choice. So far, we're making it work through immense financial privilege, but I often wonder if I'm making the right choices. I absolutely resent men who condescend to their SAHM wives without acknowledging that we often only have bad options, and I'm wary of the entrenched biases that lead otherwise good, loving husbands to start devaluing their wives once they no longer see them as their equals. Of course I don't think my husband thinks like that or ever would, but I'm sure those women didn't either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In a healthy marriage it doesn't matter who works or SAH - you're a team and the money is both of yours.

- WOHM

I agree. Just because one parent is a SAH doesn’t mean there is imbalance. If the marriage is troubled, then that’s different. But if we’re talking about regular normal marriages, it shouldn’t be an issue.

I SAH, and don’t ask permission for anything. I can’t imagine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAHMs on here will tell you things are perfect and their DH's respect them as equals, nay, respect them more than ever.

The people with paid jobs on here will tell you this is not the dynamic they observe. The respect is more patronizing, and definitely not as a peer. I agree with the PP above who says law firm partners have an uncomfortable relationship with their sahws. They really do love and respect their wives, but when they say "she has the hardest job in the world" while the DH's work 90 hours a week, can't exercise, don't see their kids, and their doctor is telling them their heart numbers are creeping up.... (none of those things that they are happy about) - there is something disingenuous about the whole thing. At minimum, they definitely don't think of their wives as intellectual peers.

I find this strange and I work. Most men are too narcissistic to really care how their wife spends her daytime hours. They put their own career first typically and don’t care what you do unless money is tight. I find it odd that so many people on here think their husband is very into their wife’s career. It’s not like the wife and husband work together.

My husband and I are both physicians at the same hospital, so we do work together, and he still doesn’t care that much about my career. He wants me to be happy, but he doesn’t think of me differently, and it doesn’t significantly change our relationship when I step out of the workforce.

I will say that he was never like OP’s DH where everything was shared 50/50. It’s kind of always been understood that the homefront is 90% my responsibility. I can hire whatever help I need if I’m working more, but he doesn’t take on more or less depending on my work situation.

[Anonymous]

I think many of you are equating income to power, and I just don’t see that in my family, at least. Power in what way? To make decisions? No. That’s not how it works. Usually the SAH parent makes most of the decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I suggest you plan on deleting this thread. But I’m a SAHM and I buy whatever I want. The money in our bank account is our money, not his, and he has no more say in what we do with it than I do. He has heard married men talking about money as though it gives the man more power in the marriage and it disgusts my husband.

We have always, since before we were engaged, had frequent conversations about spending, saving, and earning and we are very much on the same page regarding financial goals. I imagine that helps us trust each other.

I don’t think you can really know exactly whether or not, or how, the power dynamic would change if one spouse left the workforce, but maybe you can get clues based on conversations he has with others. And of course you should I be clear that it’s joint money, not just his.

Same here. I'm in charge of all the finances. Husband doesn't have a clue what we are invested in or what the budget looks like. I just give him monthly updates. We trust each other and our family's happiness and security are our primary goal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I SAH b/c otherwise I'd be on here posting one of those threads about how my marriage is falling apart b/c DH and I can't seem to fairly divide household and childcare responsibilties well.

Our son was diagnosed with ADHD at age 5 and at that point DH and I both got evaluatedand were both diagnosed too. Just one of those things where it was not such a big deal pre-kids but relative weaknesses were really magnified once we were parents.

Both of us having to wear both bread-winner and domestic-care hats didn't play to either of our strengths and exasperated our weaknesses.

DH was already in a solid paying job but has stepped it up professionally and I SAH to cover the home front--which actually is demanding for me b/c my exec. functioniong skills are less than stellar. But although I'm not a natural at it, I really enjoy SAH b/c I derive most of my self-worth from instrinsic validation. DH and I both know that I'm doing what we both need me to be doing. And I let him know how much I appreciate the fact that he can finance a comfortable lifestlye for us--b/c otherwise we would be drowning.

I just wanted to share this b/c this isn't about having an immaculate home or maintaining the perfect social calendar, etc. We're just a husband and wife who looked at the realities on the ground of the family we had created and course corrected as needed. In other words, the dynamics are equitable.

+1. I could have written this except we have more than one child with adhd and my husband does not have adhd. We do have more kids than usual though who are all very active and high achieving, which means they are very busy. I have a ton to do just getting them to their various obligations and taking care of our home. My husband doesn’t believe one’s value is all about their career. He does very well and provides us with a very comfortable lifestyle. We work together and consider ourselves a team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was making a high income but once I had kids I kept my job but worked part-time. My two kids have just graduated college and I am back to full time with the same company. I did not take a major step back in my career like I may have done if I had quit the workforce for 20 years. I thought several times about being a SAHM and had the support of my high income DH. 15 years into the marriage he became a depressed, alcoholic on the verge of losing his job. He has recovered somewhat, for now, but I am thankful I did not become a 100% SAHM and would have been able to support myself and my kids, if need be, without my DH. I realize mine is an extreme situation that I hope no one else has to deal with.

You are fortunate you were able to work PT. I think this is ideal and wish I would have been able to find that kind of job (I was in finance/IT and part time wasn't a thing back in the 90s/early 00s). I tried!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry if this has been posted about before.

How does being a SAHM change the dynamics of a marriage? I make a similar amount as DH and never have to think twice if I want to buy something for myself (within reason, of course). I expect DH to share housework/childcare equally. We make decisions collectively and neither of us has the final say. Everything just feels very equal and balanced in our relationship. Does that all go out the window if you're a SAHM? How does it work?

His money is my money.
I ask if I need help. He asks when he needs help. Right now he does everything. Life happens. He never complains.
I don't ask permission for anything. Neither does he.
Trust and respect goes a long way.
Married 45 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAHMs on here will tell you things are perfect and their DH's respect them as equals, nay, respect them more than ever.

The people with paid jobs on here will tell you this is not the dynamic they observe. The respect is more patronizing, and definitely not as a peer. I agree with the PP above who says law firm partners have an uncomfortable relationship with their sahws. They really do love and respect their wives, but when they say "she has the hardest job in the world" while the DH's work 90 hours a week, can't exercise, don't see their kids, and their doctor is telling them their heart numbers are creeping up.... (none of those things that they are happy about) - there is something disingenuous about the whole thing. At minimum, they definitely don't think of their wives as intellectual peers.

I work but I find this comment more patronizing than most things I've heard working dads say about their SAHM wives, to be honest.

If someone tells me that they have a good dynamic and an equitable marriage, I take them at their word. I find it really gross to sit there and second guess it and say "oh you say that but I think your husband doesn't view you as a peer." It's just crazy judgmental and it's not up to you to decide what the internal dynamic of someone else's marriage is.

This is going to vary a lot depending on the people involved, but PP's attitude that SAHMs cannot be intellectual or truly valued as much as their husband's are really rubs me the wrong way. Raising kids and taking care of a home are valuable jobs that SAHMs don't get paychecks for. I'm sure sometimes their husbands don't respect or appreciate it, but also I think sometimes they do.

Also, you don't need one partner to work 90 hour weeks in order to afford a SAHP. Many single-income families I know of just arrange their budget around one income and that person works reasonable hours. These families are not rich or jetting around the world on vacation or fully funding four 529s or anything, but they are financially sound and have relatively low-stress lives and appear to have good marriages where one spouse works a decent paying job (in most cases making like 200-250k) and the other does a lot of the work they'd otherwise outsource and manages the budget, and it's pretty symbiotic.

I'm the big law partner PP, and just to be clear, I also think men's attitudes about this are gross. I'm just noting my observation that many of the men I'm around don't see their SAHM wives as intellectual equals or providing equally valuable contributions to the family. If anything, I think it's abhorrent that this career path all but requires you to have a stay at home spouse due to the long, unpredictable hours, but then fosters a culture that respects only resume-worthy accomplishments. I agree that SAHMs should be valued and respected, but the fact remains that in many cases, they are not. That is especially hurtful when you consider that many big law partners marry women who they met as classmates at their Ivy League college or law school, or met as coworkers before she took a step back to have kids. It's something I struggle with quite a bit personally; it's difficult to juggle my career and my husband's career while taking care of a family, and we make it work only by hiring a large number of people to handle all of the driving, cooking, cleaning, errands, etc. My husband makes a lot more money than I do and is very supportive of anything that I want to do, but I have yet been able to convince myself to take a step back, in part because I see how these men - colleagues in law firms, C-suite business people I work with, etc. - view their wives and I don't want that in my marriage.

I’m a SAHM and I don’t need to be “valued” in the same way as a resume accomplishment. I just need to be valued and respected as a partner. I don’t need anyone to pretend that changing diapers is the same as writing a brief (nor do I believe the briefs are always more important). Honestly this might be more about how you see yourself and your own sense of self worth. I’m pretty secure about myself. I don’t equate the work I do as a SAHM to a career, and I don’t need to be admired or validated by my husband’s coworkers. I don’t need my husband to fill the slot in his regard for me where professional accomplishments go with my SAHM stuff. That section is just blank right now, and I’m quite okay with that.

I was you, with an unknown to me cheating biglaw now ex. People who "work" long hours can hide a multitude of things. His firm had a lot of affairs and divorces. He went from looking down on that to joining in with peers. We don't control the company people keep or how it influences them, sometimes to the detriment of ourselves and our kids. Life involves a lot of dynamics. I'm glad you sound happy and centered. I thought I was until our lives fell through thin ice. Not having recent work experience or a current network is a danger to women and children. The reality that it is hard to be hired in middle age is another hard truth.

SAH brought me some great joys. It also turned out to be the biggest mistake of my life after marrying ex and it greatly harmed my kids. Tactics that left me no income to "soften me up" while accounts had been drained was terrifying as were threats to go for full custody, with AP claiming she wanted to SAH with the kids and family court vendors swarming for evaluations, parenting plans, you name it, they make $ off of it, so it is ordered.

Life happens outside us, not just in our heads. And often the things that shape our life happen in rooms we have never been in, in response to values we don't share.

[Anonymous]

Not everyone can get a part time and flexible job and go back to full time after 10 years without having some drawbacks. That being said, you can also have drawbacks for your children and marriage by trying to manage both. Its okay to become SHAM for few years to standby your family but go back to work as soon as you can.

[Anonymous]

Personally, it worked out great for me, my husband and our kids but if it hadn't, consequences could've been difficult to deal with.