SAHMs and marriage dynamics?

[Anonymous]

I’m a SAHM of three. Happy marriage, we are best friends. We each value the contribution the other brings to the household.

[Anonymous]

I SAH b/c otherwise I'd be on here posting one of those threads about how my marriage is falling apart b/c DH and I can't seem to fairly divide household and childcare responsibilties well.

Our son was diagnosed with ADHD at age 5 and at that point DH and I both got evaluatedand were both diagnosed too. Just one of those things where it was not such a big deal pre-kids but relative weaknesses were really magnified once we were parents.

Both of us having to wear both bread-winner and domestic-care hats didn't play to either of our strengths and exasperated our weaknesses.

DH was already in a solid paying job but has stepped it up professionally and I SAH to cover the home front--which actually is demanding for me b/c my exec. functioniong skills are less than stellar. But although I'm not a natural at it, I really enjoy SAH b/c I derive most of my self-worth from instrinsic validation. DH and I both know that I'm doing what we both need me to be doing. And I let him know how much I appreciate the fact that he can finance a comfortable lifestlye for us--b/c otherwise we would be drowning.

I just wanted to share this b/c this isn't about having an immaculate home or maintaining the perfect social calendar, etc. We're just a husband and wife who looked at the realities on the ground of the family we had created and course corrected as needed. In other words, the dynamics are equitable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAHMs on here will tell you things are perfect and their DH's respect them as equals, nay, respect them more than ever.

The people with paid jobs on here will tell you this is not the dynamic they observe. The respect is more patronizing, and definitely not as a peer. I agree with the PP above who says law firm partners have an uncomfortable relationship with their sahws. They really do love and respect their wives, but when they say "she has the hardest job in the world" while the DH's work 90 hours a week, can't exercise, don't see their kids, and their doctor is telling them their heart numbers are creeping up.... (none of those things that they are happy about) - there is something disingenuous about the whole thing. At minimum, they definitely don't think of their wives as intellectual peers.

I work but I find this comment more patronizing than most things I've heard working dads say about their SAHM wives, to be honest.

If someone tells me that they have a good dynamic and an equitable marriage, I take them at their word. I find it really gross to sit there and second guess it and say "oh you say that but I think your husband doesn't view you as a peer." It's just crazy judgmental and it's not up to you to decide what the internal dynamic of someone else's marriage is.

This is going to vary a lot depending on the people involved, but PP's attitude that SAHMs cannot be intellectual or truly valued as much as their husband's are really rubs me the wrong way. Raising kids and taking care of a home are valuable jobs that SAHMs don't get paychecks for. I'm sure sometimes their husbands don't respect or appreciate it, but also I think sometimes they do.

Also, you don't need one partner to work 90 hour weeks in order to afford a SAHP. Many single-income families I know of just arrange their budget around one income and that person works reasonable hours. These families are not rich or jetting around the world on vacation or fully funding four 529s or anything, but they are financially sound and have relatively low-stress lives and appear to have good marriages where one spouse works a decent paying job (in most cases making like 200-250k) and the other does a lot of the work they'd otherwise outsource and manages the budget, and it's pretty symbiotic.

I'm the big law partner PP, and just to be clear, I also think men's attitudes about this are gross. I'm just noting my observation that many of the men I'm around don't see their SAHM wives as intellectual equals or providing equally valuable contributions to the family. If anything, I think it's abhorrent that this career path all but requires you to have a stay at home spouse due to the long, unpredictable hours, but then fosters a culture that respects only resume-worthy accomplishments. I agree that SAHMs should be valued and respected, but the fact remains that in many cases, they are not. That is especially hurtful when you consider that many big law partners marry women who they met as classmates at their Ivy League college or law school, or met as coworkers before she took a step back to have kids. It's something I struggle with quite a bit personally; it's difficult to juggle my career and my husband's career while taking care of a family, and we make it work only by hiring a large number of people to handle all of the driving, cooking, cleaning, errands, etc. My husband makes a lot more money than I do and is very supportive of anything that I want to do, but I have yet been able to convince myself to take a step back, in part because I see how these men - colleagues in law firms, C-suite business people I work with, etc. - view their wives and I don't want that in my marriage.

[Anonymous]

OP my situation is a little different because I have considerable passive income, so I’m not financially dependent on my DH.

That said, I do think becoming a SAHM is a mixed bag on the marriage front. On the one hand, there’s very little friction because I just have a lot of time and slack and a pretty low stress life, and I do all of the house stuff. And while he’s a great dad, I do the vast majority of the childcare (obviously) and all of the mental load parenting stuff. I’m sure he doesn’t know shoe sizes, etc.

I gave up my career to have all that slack and time and I think marital harmony was a factor, but I think I still feel good about that choice. I didn’t really like my career and I’ve never been ambitious in that way. I really like my slow life.

The biggest issue is that I think we will have a rough transition back to me working with regard to the housework and the mental load. I don’t want to be a SAHM forever. But I know that me getting a job is not going to make him snap into being an equal partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It depends on you and your spouse. We are true equals. We both deal with housework/child care depending now what's going on and work it out, just like we'd do regardless of my working or not. I can spend/do what I want within reason. I think if anything I have the final say with many things. It really has nothing to do with SAH or not. I don't have to ask or consult him if I want to buy something as he doesn't care at all.

Yeah, same for me. I'm naturally the more frugal one so he isn't going to second guess my purchases. It's not presumed that 100% of childcare or housework falls on me. Obviously I am available more and so I can take on more of those things, but he does his share too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAHMs on here will tell you things are perfect and their DH's respect them as equals, nay, respect them more than ever.

The people with paid jobs on here will tell you this is not the dynamic they observe. The respect is more patronizing, and definitely not as a peer. I agree with the PP above who says law firm partners have an uncomfortable relationship with their sahws. They really do love and respect their wives, but when they say "she has the hardest job in the world" while the DH's work 90 hours a week, can't exercise, don't see their kids, and their doctor is telling them their heart numbers are creeping up.... (none of those things that they are happy about) - there is something disingenuous about the whole thing. At minimum, they definitely don't think of their wives as intellectual peers.

I find this strange and I work. Most men are too narcissistic to really care how their wife spends her daytime hours. They put their own career first typically and don’t care what you do unless money is tight. I find it odd that so many people on here think their husband is very into their wife’s career. It’s not like the wife and husband work together.

What a deeply misandrist world view you have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In a healthy marriage it doesn't matter who works or SAH - you're a team and the money is both of yours.

- WOHM

True. Be warned that change and/or disruption can challenge assumptions, cause anxiety and uncover dysfunctions. I was a SAHM who went back to work. The anxiety (heightened by the pandemic as well as other things) ended up causing major damage to my marriage because we just don’t know how to communicate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAHMs on here will tell you things are perfect and their DH's respect them as equals, nay, respect them more than ever.

The people with paid jobs on here will tell you this is not the dynamic they observe. The respect is more patronizing, and definitely not as a peer. I agree with the PP above who says law firm partners have an uncomfortable relationship with their sahws. They really do love and respect their wives, but when they say "she has the hardest job in the world" while the DH's work 90 hours a week, can't exercise, don't see their kids, and their doctor is telling them their heart numbers are creeping up.... (none of those things that they are happy about) - there is something disingenuous about the whole thing. At minimum, they definitely don't think of their wives as intellectual peers.

I work but I find this comment more patronizing than most things I've heard working dads say about their SAHM wives, to be honest.

If someone tells me that they have a good dynamic and an equitable marriage, I take them at their word. I find it really gross to sit there and second guess it and say "oh you say that but I think your husband doesn't view you as a peer." It's just crazy judgmental and it's not up to you to decide what the internal dynamic of someone else's marriage is.

This is going to vary a lot depending on the people involved, but PP's attitude that SAHMs cannot be intellectual or truly valued as much as their husband's are really rubs me the wrong way. Raising kids and taking care of a home are valuable jobs that SAHMs don't get paychecks for. I'm sure sometimes their husbands don't respect or appreciate it, but also I think sometimes they do.

Also, you don't need one partner to work 90 hour weeks in order to afford a SAHP. Many single-income families I know of just arrange their budget around one income and that person works reasonable hours. These families are not rich or jetting around the world on vacation or fully funding four 529s or anything, but they are financially sound and have relatively low-stress lives and appear to have good marriages where one spouse works a decent paying job (in most cases making like 200-250k) and the other does a lot of the work they'd otherwise outsource and manages the budget, and it's pretty symbiotic.

I'm the big law partner PP, and just to be clear, I also think men's attitudes about this are gross. I'm just noting my observation that many of the men I'm around don't see their SAHM wives as intellectual equals or providing equally valuable contributions to the family. If anything, I think it's abhorrent that this career path all but requires you to have a stay at home spouse due to the long, unpredictable hours, but then fosters a culture that respects only resume-worthy accomplishments. I agree that SAHMs should be valued and respected, but the fact remains that in many cases, they are not. That is especially hurtful when you consider that many big law partners marry women who they met as classmates at their Ivy League college or law school, or met as coworkers before she took a step back to have kids. It's something I struggle with quite a bit personally; it's difficult to juggle my career and my husband's career while taking care of a family, and we make it work only by hiring a large number of people to handle all of the driving, cooking, cleaning, errands, etc. My husband makes a lot more money than I do and is very supportive of anything that I want to do, but I have yet been able to convince myself to take a step back, in part because I see how these men - colleagues in law firms, C-suite business people I work with, etc. - view their wives and I don't want that in my marriage.

I’m a SAHM and I don’t need to be “valued” in the same way as a resume accomplishment. I just need to be valued and respected as a partner. I don’t need anyone to pretend that changing diapers is the same as writing a brief (nor do I believe the briefs are always more important). Honestly this might be more about how you see yourself and your own sense of self worth. I’m pretty secure about myself. I don’t equate the work I do as a SAHM to a career, and I don’t need to be admired or validated by my husband’s coworkers. I don’t need my husband to fill the slot in his regard for me where professional accomplishments go with my SAHM stuff. That section is just blank right now, and I’m quite okay with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAHMs on here will tell you things are perfect and their DH's respect them as equals, nay, respect them more than ever.

The people with paid jobs on here will tell you this is not the dynamic they observe. The respect is more patronizing, and definitely not as a peer. I agree with the PP above who says law firm partners have an uncomfortable relationship with their sahws. They really do love and respect their wives, but when they say "she has the hardest job in the world" while the DH's work 90 hours a week, can't exercise, don't see their kids, and their doctor is telling them their heart numbers are creeping up.... (none of those things that they are happy about) - there is something disingenuous about the whole thing. At minimum, they definitely don't think of their wives as intellectual peers.

I work but I find this comment more patronizing than most things I've heard working dads say about their SAHM wives, to be honest.

If someone tells me that they have a good dynamic and an equitable marriage, I take them at their word. I find it really gross to sit there and second guess it and say "oh you say that but I think your husband doesn't view you as a peer." It's just crazy judgmental and it's not up to you to decide what the internal dynamic of someone else's marriage is.

This is going to vary a lot depending on the people involved, but PP's attitude that SAHMs cannot be intellectual or truly valued as much as their husband's are really rubs me the wrong way. Raising kids and taking care of a home are valuable jobs that SAHMs don't get paychecks for. I'm sure sometimes their husbands don't respect or appreciate it, but also I think sometimes they do.

Also, you don't need one partner to work 90 hour weeks in order to afford a SAHP. Many single-income families I know of just arrange their budget around one income and that person works reasonable hours. These families are not rich or jetting around the world on vacation or fully funding four 529s or anything, but they are financially sound and have relatively low-stress lives and appear to have good marriages where one spouse works a decent paying job (in most cases making like 200-250k) and the other does a lot of the work they'd otherwise outsource and manages the budget, and it's pretty symbiotic.

I'm the big law partner PP, and just to be clear, I also think men's attitudes about this are gross. I'm just noting my observation that many of the men I'm around don't see their SAHM wives as intellectual equals or providing equally valuable contributions to the family. If anything, I think it's abhorrent that this career path all but requires you to have a stay at home spouse due to the long, unpredictable hours, but then fosters a culture that respects only resume-worthy accomplishments. I agree that SAHMs should be valued and respected, but the fact remains that in many cases, they are not. That is especially hurtful when you consider that many big law partners marry women who they met as classmates at their Ivy League college or law school, or met as coworkers before she took a step back to have kids. It's something I struggle with quite a bit personally; it's difficult to juggle my career and my husband's career while taking care of a family, and we make it work only by hiring a large number of people to handle all of the driving, cooking, cleaning, errands, etc. My husband makes a lot more money than I do and is very supportive of anything that I want to do, but I have yet been able to convince myself to take a step back, in part because I see how these men - colleagues in law firms, C-suite business people I work with, etc. - view their wives and I don't want that in my marriage.

You're contradicting yourself. You say you have this awesome supportive husband and that you're "struggling quite a bit personally," yet you won't step back. Clearly it's because it's YOU who only respects "resume-worthy accomplishments." You're projecting your own insecurities onto others. It's just so odd that you allow what you see men doing (or, more accurately, what you perceive these men to be doing) to influence your own choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAHMs on here will tell you things are perfect and their DH's respect them as equals, nay, respect them more than ever.

The people with paid jobs on here will tell you this is not the dynamic they observe. The respect is more patronizing, and definitely not as a peer. I agree with the PP above who says law firm partners have an uncomfortable relationship with their sahws. They really do love and respect their wives, but when they say "she has the hardest job in the world" while the DH's work 90 hours a week, can't exercise, don't see their kids, and their doctor is telling them their heart numbers are creeping up.... (none of those things that they are happy about) - there is something disingenuous about the whole thing. At minimum, they definitely don't think of their wives as intellectual peers.

I work but I find this comment more patronizing than most things I've heard working dads say about their SAHM wives, to be honest.

If someone tells me that they have a good dynamic and an equitable marriage, I take them at their word. I find it really gross to sit there and second guess it and say "oh you say that but I think your husband doesn't view you as a peer." It's just crazy judgmental and it's not up to you to decide what the internal dynamic of someone else's marriage is.

This is going to vary a lot depending on the people involved, but PP's attitude that SAHMs cannot be intellectual or truly valued as much as their husband's are really rubs me the wrong way. Raising kids and taking care of a home are valuable jobs that SAHMs don't get paychecks for. I'm sure sometimes their husbands don't respect or appreciate it, but also I think sometimes they do.

Also, you don't need one partner to work 90 hour weeks in order to afford a SAHP. Many single-income families I know of just arrange their budget around one income and that person works reasonable hours. These families are not rich or jetting around the world on vacation or fully funding four 529s or anything, but they are financially sound and have relatively low-stress lives and appear to have good marriages where one spouse works a decent paying job (in most cases making like 200-250k) and the other does a lot of the work they'd otherwise outsource and manages the budget, and it's pretty symbiotic.

I'm the big law partner PP, and just to be clear, I also think men's attitudes about this are gross. I'm just noting my observation that many of the men I'm around don't see their SAHM wives as intellectual equals or providing equally valuable contributions to the family. If anything, I think it's abhorrent that this career path all but requires you to have a stay at home spouse due to the long, unpredictable hours, but then fosters a culture that respects only resume-worthy accomplishments. I agree that SAHMs should be valued and respected, but the fact remains that in many cases, they are not. That is especially hurtful when you consider that many big law partners marry women who they met as classmates at their Ivy League college or law school, or met as coworkers before she took a step back to have kids. It's something I struggle with quite a bit personally; it's difficult to juggle my career and my husband's career while taking care of a family, and we make it work only by hiring a large number of people to handle all of the driving, cooking, cleaning, errands, etc. My husband makes a lot more money than I do and is very supportive of anything that I want to do, but I have yet been able to convince myself to take a step back, in part because I see how these men - colleagues in law firms, C-suite business people I work with, etc. - view their wives and I don't want that in my marriage.

You're contradicting yourself. You say you have this awesome supportive husband and that you're "struggling quite a bit personally," yet you won't step back. Clearly it's because it's YOU who only respects "resume-worthy accomplishments." You're projecting your own insecurities onto others. It's just so odd that you allow what you see men doing (or, more accurately, what you perceive these men to be doing) to influence your own choices.

I'm a SAH mom who posted earlier and mentioned that it was an easier transition for me b/c I don't dervive a lot of internal motivation from external rewards (wages, bonuses, promotions, etc). If you are professionally ambitious and do naturally derive a lot of your sense of self from paid employment (not a criticism, we're all wired differently), there's naturally going to be some tension there.

[Anonymous]

Unless your dh makes a lot of money, things WILL change. People here like to say his money is mine, but I guarantee their spending habits change unless he's rich. I work part-time, so I can spend what I want. It doesn't work for me because dh complains. Your income needs to be very high for the guy not to complain.

[Anonymous]

I was a SAHM and/ or a grad student for a decade.

I am back at work, and we now live more frugally than we did when we were a single income household.

My DH never commented about anything I bought until I had a job. Now that I am working, he comments all the time. Lol.

I take it he felt awkward to comment when he was the only one working because he was concerned that I would misinterpret his comment as him trying to control the money because he made it.

So I guess money was awkward because it made him less vocal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unless your dh makes a lot of money, things WILL change. People here like to say his money is mine, but I guarantee their spending habits change unless he's rich. I work part-time, so I can spend what I want. It doesn't work for me because dh complains. Your income needs to be very high for the guy not to complain.

Things change in a marriage all the time. Having a baby changes things. Returning to work after maternity leave is a change. If your spouse had to go on long term leave for health reasons, that’s change, and eventually retirement creates change too (and the two spouses probably won’t retire at the exact same time, so the dynamic of one retired spouse with a non retired one…is a change). Healthy married couples work through change together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a big law partner and a lot of my male colleagues have wives who are SAHMs. I'm not super involved in their marriages, obviously, but just from hearing how they talk amongst themselves, it seems like a lot of them lose respect for their wives. All conversations become about the kids or the household, and they start seeing their wives more as a mother to their kids than a true partner and equal. They do love their wives, and I think their marriages are mostly happy, but it does sometimes feel like they see their colleagues (male and female) as their peers and their wives as a step beneath - and that's with the good ones. As you probably know, cheating is rampant in big law. This may be unique to law, and big law in particular, where people tend to make their career their personality and most of their self worth.

Unfortunately can say this rings of truth. As a former associate, then SAHM, now ex-wife of a then big law associate.

With ex working so much, the affairs were easy to hide and he had planned his exit and started shifting funds before I had any idea there was a problem.

The majority of his waking hours were with the people he considered peers, my life focused more and more on the family and it became easier for him to disengage. With disengagement came disparagement. He did not want to feel guilty about affairs so contempt at me and anger at the kids became more frequent.

In hindsight, I should have been far smarter. I had the better career when we married. I should have dialed it back for a while, rather than stepping out entirely.

In the past, being able to support a SAH wife was a bit of a status symbol to some, that is shifting. Many successful men now want wives with somewhat high powered careers and that is what gets approval from other younger men. That makes the dynamics riskier for a SAH in this generation. Was for me, anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAHMs on here will tell you things are perfect and their DH's respect them as equals, nay, respect them more than ever.

The people with paid jobs on here will tell you this is not the dynamic they observe. The respect is more patronizing, and definitely not as a peer. I agree with the PP above who says law firm partners have an uncomfortable relationship with their sahws. They really do love and respect their wives, but when they say "she has the hardest job in the world" while the DH's work 90 hours a week, can't exercise, don't see their kids, and their doctor is telling them their heart numbers are creeping up.... (none of those things that they are happy about) - there is something disingenuous about the whole thing. At minimum, they definitely don't think of their wives as intellectual peers.

I work but I find this comment more patronizing than most things I've heard working dads say about their SAHM wives, to be honest.

If someone tells me that they have a good dynamic and an equitable marriage, I take them at their word. I find it really gross to sit there and second guess it and say "oh you say that but I think your husband doesn't view you as a peer." It's just crazy judgmental and it's not up to you to decide what the internal dynamic of someone else's marriage is.

This is going to vary a lot depending on the people involved, but PP's attitude that SAHMs cannot be intellectual or truly valued as much as their husband's are really rubs me the wrong way. Raising kids and taking care of a home are valuable jobs that SAHMs don't get paychecks for. I'm sure sometimes their husbands don't respect or appreciate it, but also I think sometimes they do.

Also, you don't need one partner to work 90 hour weeks in order to afford a SAHP. Many single-income families I know of just arrange their budget around one income and that person works reasonable hours. These families are not rich or jetting around the world on vacation or fully funding four 529s or anything, but they are financially sound and have relatively low-stress lives and appear to have good marriages where one spouse works a decent paying job (in most cases making like 200-250k) and the other does a lot of the work they'd otherwise outsource and manages the budget, and it's pretty symbiotic.

I'm the big law partner PP, and just to be clear, I also think men's attitudes about this are gross. I'm just noting my observation that many of the men I'm around don't see their SAHM wives as intellectual equals or providing equally valuable contributions to the family. If anything, I think it's abhorrent that this career path all but requires you to have a stay at home spouse due to the long, unpredictable hours, but then fosters a culture that respects only resume-worthy accomplishments. I agree that SAHMs should be valued and respected, but the fact remains that in many cases, they are not. That is especially hurtful when you consider that many big law partners marry women who they met as classmates at their Ivy League college or law school, or met as coworkers before she took a step back to have kids. It's something I struggle with quite a bit personally; it's difficult to juggle my career and my husband's career while taking care of a family, and we make it work only by hiring a large number of people to handle all of the driving, cooking, cleaning, errands, etc. My husband makes a lot more money than I do and is very supportive of anything that I want to do, but I have yet been able to convince myself to take a step back, in part because I see how these men - colleagues in law firms, C-suite business people I work with, etc. - view their wives and I don't want that in my marriage.

TBH, most Big Law attorneys don’t consider anyone their intellectual equals.