When does mean girl behavior start?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I actually have an Evite ready to go inviting the full class. My daughter was pretty clear she didn’t want to invite a girl who clearly told her she wasn’t her friend. My daughter doesn’t want to invite this girl.

When we get a whole-class birthday invite, I ask my kid "Do you like this kid? Is he your friend, and do you want to go to his party?" Nobody wants to go to a party celebrating somebody they hate. That solves a lot of the issue. Maybe explain to your kid this is how it works, and as a rule we do not do exclusion. The guest can simply decline the invitation. This is not like school where the kids are forced to show up.

If she really needs to omit one person, then come up with a different group, not the whole class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so just a note that this stuff happen with boys, but everyone is so quick to label it "mean girl" that it often gets ignored.

Kids are sometimes jerks. Please don't boil this down to queen bee nonsense. It *COULD* be that, but it most likely is a 5/6 year old kid feeling overwhelmed at school.

Does your DD have friends who do enjoy her? Great, focus on them. Have a smaller party without the mean girl (but not everyone BUT her) and just help support your DD having friends.

I know what you are going for here, but I will politely disagree. The exclusion stuff does not happen with boys at this age, at least not as frequently. Boys in early elementary tend to do a lot of group play and there is way less focus on "best friends", which just means there are fewer opportunities to exclude or to compete over friends. It can happen some, but usually the solution is "let's just all play together" and except in rare instances, that's the end of it. Girls do more 1:1 play. Also, it's hard to say whether the best friend thing is something the kids push or parents push on them, but it's definitely real. My DD's K class had three sets of "best friends" -- their parents did lots of 1:1 playdates, they would dress alike on twin day, they gravitated towards each other during all free play times. It was really hard on the other girls (my DD included) because it's like it just eliminates friend options for them because all the girls are "taken".

And I totally agree with PPs that when you see overt exclusion or teasing, it's almost always from kids with older siblings -- they are mimicking their sibling. Who is often in 2nd/3rd/4th grade and absolutely is in the thick of these mean girl behaviors. They don't "feel overwhelmed" -- they are imitating learned behaviors that are negative and socially unkind.

I would never write off a kid for any of this stuff (in K or in older grades). Like I said -- learned behaviors. But I also wouldn't write off the behavior. Mean girl dynamics are real and we have to address them. Because you know what is overwhelming at school? Having no friends because one or two girls told everyone else you're "weird". Or developing friendships and then being told you aren't allowed to have those friends anymore because another girl says so. This stuff happens constantly among girls, not boys. We have to actually address it and not pretend it isn't happening or that boys and girls are having the same experiences. They aren't.

+10000. Have 2 older boys and a toddler girl, and am already seeing vastly different friendship behaviors among the girl cohort in preschool.

And another thing: boy, do I hate twin day. I had a "best friend" as a little girl, so it is not a bad association for me personally. But I despise the desperate scramble every time there is a twin day at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually have an Evite ready to go inviting the full class. My daughter was pretty clear she didn’t want to invite a girl who clearly told her she wasn’t her friend. My daughter doesn’t want to invite this girl.

When we get a whole-class birthday invite, I ask my kid "Do you like this kid? Is he your friend, and do you want to go to his party?" Nobody wants to go to a party celebrating somebody they hate. That solves a lot of the issue. Maybe explain to your kid this is how it works, and as a rule we do not do exclusion. The guest can simply decline the invitation. This is not like school where the kids are forced to show up.

If she really needs to omit one person, then come up with a different group, not the whole class.

So wait you are teaching your child that if someone tells you they army your friend you should continue to interact with them? That’s not healthy.

[Anonymous]

Boys and girls are generally différent. Female friendships are based on social interactions, the building of trust and sharing intimacies. Boy friendships are based, in general, on doing things together. Therefore boys can be ‘friends’ with a boy they may not enjoy socially because it isn’t as important to them. That said, boys can be just as cruel as girls. Words hurt and so do fists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so just a note that this stuff happen with boys, but everyone is so quick to label it "mean girl" that it often gets ignored.

Kids are sometimes jerks. Please don't boil this down to queen bee nonsense. It *COULD* be that, but it most likely is a 5/6 year old kid feeling overwhelmed at school.

Does your DD have friends who do enjoy her? Great, focus on them. Have a smaller party without the mean girl (but not everyone BUT her) and just help support your DD having friends.

I know what you are going for here, but I will politely disagree. The exclusion stuff does not happen with boys at this age, at least not as frequently. Boys in early elementary tend to do a lot of group play and there is way less focus on "best friends", which just means there are fewer opportunities to exclude or to compete over friends. It can happen some, but usually the solution is "let's just all play together" and except in rare instances, that's the end of it. Girls do more 1:1 play. Also, it's hard to say whether the best friend thing is something the kids push or parents push on them, but it's definitely real. My DD's K class had three sets of "best friends" -- their parents did lots of 1:1 playdates, they would dress alike on twin day, they gravitated towards each other during all free play times. It was really hard on the other girls (my DD included) because it's like it just eliminates friend options for them because all the girls are "taken".

And I totally agree with PPs that when you see overt exclusion or teasing, it's almost always from kids with older siblings -- they are mimicking their sibling. Who is often in 2nd/3rd/4th grade and absolutely is in the thick of these mean girl behaviors. They don't "feel overwhelmed" -- they are imitating learned behaviors that are negative and socially unkind.

I would never write off a kid for any of this stuff (in K or in older grades). Like I said -- learned behaviors. But I also wouldn't write off the behavior. Mean girl dynamics are real and we have to address them. Because you know what is overwhelming at school? Having no friends because one or two girls told everyone else you're "weird". Or developing friendships and then being told you aren't allowed to have those friends anymore because another girl says so. This stuff happens constantly among girls, not boys. We have to actually address it and not pretend it isn't happening or that boys and girls are having the same experiences. They aren't.

+10000. Have 2 older boys and a toddler girl, and am already seeing vastly different friendship behaviors among the girl cohort in preschool.

And another thing: boy, do I hate twin day. I had a "best friend" as a little girl, so it is not a bad association for me personally. But I despise the desperate scramble every time there is a twin day at school.

I don’t understand why twin day exists. For kids with a best buddy, they could dress the same whenever they wanted. For kids without one, it’s very stressful. Every year I’m like “why is this a thing? What does it have to do with school spirit?” I don’t get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stop using the term "mean girl". It is misogynistic. Girls are not uniquely mean. Girls who are mean are mean to other girls because it is their peer group. They are also mean to boys but less so because we have then socialized to defer to the boys. Last I checked the girls lacrosse team never raped a team mate with a broom handle. People are sometimes mean. Some of them are girls and some of them are girls.

FINALLY someone with sense. Stop with the “mean girl” crap. People sometimes behave badly. That poor behavior often looks different between genders mostly due to socialization. An adult labeling a kindergartner (!) as a “mean girl” is also what I would consider poor behavior. Also, OP, you’re only getting one side of the story. My kids have complained plenty about other kids being unfriendly to them, and often when I’ve observed the dynamics in person, it’s very much a give and take. Point being, don’t assume that your kid is never at fault.

Also: yes, you have to invite the whole class. Leaving one kid out is atrocious.

-Mom of one girl and two boys

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so just a note that this stuff happen with boys, but everyone is so quick to label it "mean girl" that it often gets ignored.

Kids are sometimes jerks. Please don't boil this down to queen bee nonsense. It *COULD* be that, but it most likely is a 5/6 year old kid feeling overwhelmed at school.

Does your DD have friends who do enjoy her? Great, focus on them. Have a smaller party without the mean girl (but not everyone BUT her) and just help support your DD having friends.

I know what you are going for here, but I will politely disagree. The exclusion stuff does not happen with boys at this age, at least not as frequently. Boys in early elementary tend to do a lot of group play and there is way less focus on "best friends", which just means there are fewer opportunities to exclude or to compete over friends. It can happen some, but usually the solution is "let's just all play together" and except in rare instances, that's the end of it. Girls do more 1:1 play. Also, it's hard to say whether the best friend thing is something the kids push or parents push on them, but it's definitely real. My DD's K class had three sets of "best friends" -- their parents did lots of 1:1 playdates, they would dress alike on twin day, they gravitated towards each other during all free play times. It was really hard on the other girls (my DD included) because it's like it just eliminates friend options for them because all the girls are "taken".

And I totally agree with PPs that when you see overt exclusion or teasing, it's almost always from kids with older siblings -- they are mimicking their sibling. Who is often in 2nd/3rd/4th grade and absolutely is in the thick of these mean girl behaviors. They don't "feel overwhelmed" -- they are imitating learned behaviors that are negative and socially unkind.

I would never write off a kid for any of this stuff (in K or in older grades). Like I said -- learned behaviors. But I also wouldn't write off the behavior. Mean girl dynamics are real and we have to address them. Because you know what is overwhelming at school? Having no friends because one or two girls told everyone else you're "weird". Or developing friendships and then being told you aren't allowed to have those friends anymore because another girl says so. This stuff happens constantly among girls, not boys. We have to actually address it and not pretend it isn't happening or that boys and girls are having the same experiences. They aren't.

+10000. Have 2 older boys and a toddler girl, and am already seeing vastly different friendship behaviors among the girl cohort in preschool.

And another thing: boy, do I hate twin day. I had a "best friend" as a little girl, so it is not a bad association for me personally. But I despise the desperate scramble every time there is a twin day at school.

I don’t understand why twin day exists. For kids with a best buddy, they could dress the same whenever they wanted. For kids without one, it’s very stressful. Every year I’m like “why is this a thing? What does it have to do with school spirit?” I don’t get it.

My oldest is now a teenager. In all the years they had twin day, I think he participated once. I knew his friend had the same Minecraft sweatshirt and they wore the same shirt on twin day.

[Anonymous]

3rd grade is when I first experienced it, and seeing it now amongst some girls in my daughter’s 3rd grade.

[Anonymous]

4/5.

I’ve worked with kids from 3-7 for almost twenty years and I see the behavior start in Pre-K/Kindergarten.

It’s when I’ll see kids go from impulsively being unkind (getting frustrated and hitting, calling someone a name) to true mean, manipulative behavior with the intent on hurting their peers. Excluding certain children in order to make them feel bad, finding a child’s weakness or sensitivity and attacking it in order to hurt them. When I see the intention behind the behavior, I consider that “mean girl” behavior although boys can exhibit this too, but it is mostly girls.

And 9/10 times it comes directly from the parents. We had this incredibly snotty, arrogant, mean mother who would make sarcastic, classist mean girl remarks to other mothers and staff but somehow managed to be well-liked in her circle. Her kid was 4 when she started exhibiting the exact same behaviors. Excluding kids based on perceived social status, clothing, etc. Being incredibly cruel to kids that were clearly struggling, “you are ugly and stupid” but always said in what they assume out or an adults earshot. When approached about it, they would dawn and butter up adults or any authority figure. At 4 already figuring out how to be sneaky enough to torment some kids but be a little teachers pet with adults. Really disheartening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: And another thing: boy, do I hate twin day. I had a "best friend" as a little girl, so it is not a bad association for me personally. But I despise the desperate scramble every time there is a twin day at school.

I don’t understand why twin day exists. For kids with a best buddy, they could dress the same whenever they wanted. For kids without one, it’s very stressful. Every year I’m like “why is this a thing? What does it have to do with school spirit?” I don’t get it.

My oldest is now a teenager. In all the years they had twin day, I think he participated once. I knew his friend had the same Minecraft sweatshirt and they wore the same shirt on twin day.

The best response I ever saw to this was one year when another mom did an email blast to the whole class saying "twin day can make many of us feel left out. X (her daughter) will be wearing Y tomorrow and you are all welcome to join her in wearing Y too."

[Anonymous]

3rd/4th grade for both my daughters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:4/5.

I’ve worked with kids from 3-7 for almost twenty years and I see the behavior start in Pre-K/Kindergarten.

It’s when I’ll see kids go from impulsively being unkind (getting frustrated and hitting, calling someone a name) to true mean, manipulative behavior with the intent on hurting their peers. Excluding certain children in order to make them feel bad, finding a child’s weakness or sensitivity and attacking it in order to hurt them. When I see the intention behind the behavior, I consider that “mean girl” behavior although boys can exhibit this too, but it is mostly girls.

And 9/10 times it comes directly from the parents. We had this incredibly snotty, arrogant, mean mother who would make sarcastic, classist mean girl remarks to other mothers and staff but somehow managed to be well-liked in her circle. Her kid was 4 when she started exhibiting the exact same behaviors. Excluding kids based on perceived social status, clothing, etc. Being incredibly cruel to kids that were clearly struggling, “you are ugly and stupid” but always said in what they assume out or an adults earshot. When approached about it, they would dawn and butter up adults or any authority figure. At 4 already figuring out how to be sneaky enough to torment some kids but be a little teachers pet with adults. Really disheartening.

I’ve experienced a few instances where the girls are horrible bullies but their moms are kind. I don’t think parents are always aware or to blame. There’s a family with three girls— only the youngest is cruel. She’s called my daughter ugly and other names, and threatened to stop being friends with other girls who were friends with mine. There was no reason for this bullying behavior aside from asserting dominance— very much like the movie Mean Girls. The girl lied to her mom and said she never mistreated my daughter—but then of course the cruel behavior escalated. I complained to the school, but I don’t think they did anything. Happily my daughter found a new circle of friends who are much nicer.

[Anonymous]

It starts by preschool if not kindergarten.

Girls are horrible to each other. Women are horrible to each other, too. It never ends.

Teach your kindergartener to stand on her own two feet starting now. It's nice to have friends who are real friends, but if they are not real friends, then don't be afraid away.

Teaching young girls that they need to put up with being treated badly by other girls -- or worse, that something must be wrong with them if they reject that treatment from a group of girls -- is one of the worst things we as mothers can do to our girls. Another girl's mean girl behavior hould always be rejected. This is how you teach your daughter to respect herself, and her boundaries.

Teach your daughter to be strong, for real instead of merely wearing a pink t-shirt with some power girl slogan.

[Anonymous]

^ afraid to walk away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:4/5.

I’ve worked with kids from 3-7 for almost twenty years and I see the behavior start in Pre-K/Kindergarten.

It’s when I’ll see kids go from impulsively being unkind (getting frustrated and hitting, calling someone a name) to true mean, manipulative behavior with the intent on hurting their peers. Excluding certain children in order to make them feel bad, finding a child’s weakness or sensitivity and attacking it in order to hurt them. When I see the intention behind the behavior, I consider that “mean girl” behavior although boys can exhibit this too, but it is mostly girls.

And 9/10 times it comes directly from the parents. We had this incredibly snotty, arrogant, mean mother who would make sarcastic, classist mean girl remarks to other mothers and staff but somehow managed to be well-liked in her circle. Her kid was 4 when she started exhibiting the exact same behaviors. Excluding kids based on perceived social status, clothing, etc. Being incredibly cruel to kids that were clearly struggling, “you are ugly and stupid” but always said in what they assume out or an adults earshot. When approached about it, they would dawn and butter up adults or any authority figure. At 4 already figuring out how to be sneaky enough to torment some kids but be a little teachers pet with adults. Really disheartening.

At least the kids you know still knew they had to butter up the adults. DD’s bully was confident enough to be blatantly rude to adults and say mean things to the kids she bullied right in front of grownups. Mother turned a blind eye of course.