When does mean girl behavior start?

[Anonymous]

we experienced mean girl behavior in 2nd grade. my daughter is the nicest. won kindest camper at camp. ended up being mean girled in 2nd grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is early mean girl stuff and we started seeing it in kindergarten (last year). Typically from girls who have older sisters.

This anecdotally matches my experience as well. The more intentional exclusion, etc. rears its head in 3rd, but this early behavior cropped up in K with a girl that had older sisters.

[Anonymous]

Ok so just a note that this stuff happen with boys, but everyone is so quick to label it "mean girl" that it often gets ignored.

Kids are sometimes jerks. Please don't boil this down to queen bee nonsense. It *COULD* be that, but it most likely is a 5/6 year old kid feeling overwhelmed at school.

Does your DD have friends who do enjoy her? Great, focus on them. Have a smaller party without the mean girl (but not everyone BUT her) and just help support your DD having friends.

[Anonymous]

I think by age 6.

[Anonymous]

I think it gets bad and more coordinated around 5th grade. Before then, it seems more fumbling. By 5th, it can get very cruel

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is early mean girl stuff and we started seeing it in kindergarten (last year). Typically from girls who have older sisters.

OP here. The girl does have an older sister in fourth grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok so just a note that this stuff happen with boys, but everyone is so quick to label it "mean girl" that it often gets ignored.

Kids are sometimes jerks. Please don't boil this down to queen bee nonsense. It *COULD* be that, but it most likely is a 5/6 year old kid feeling overwhelmed at school.

Does your DD have friends who do enjoy her? Great, focus on them. Have a smaller party without the mean girl (but not everyone BUT her) and just help support your DD having friends.

I know what you are going for here, but I will politely disagree. The exclusion stuff does not happen with boys at this age, at least not as frequently. Boys in early elementary tend to do a lot of group play and there is way less focus on "best friends", which just means there are fewer opportunities to exclude or to compete over friends. It can happen some, but usually the solution is "let's just all play together" and except in rare instances, that's the end of it. Girls do more 1:1 play. Also, it's hard to say whether the best friend thing is something the kids push or parents push on them, but it's definitely real. My DD's K class had three sets of "best friends" -- their parents did lots of 1:1 playdates, they would dress alike on twin day, they gravitated towards each other during all free play times. It was really hard on the other girls (my DD included) because it's like it just eliminates friend options for them because all the girls are "taken".

And I totally agree with PPs that when you see overt exclusion or teasing, it's almost always from kids with older siblings -- they are mimicking their sibling. Who is often in 2nd/3rd/4th grade and absolutely is in the thick of these mean girl behaviors. They don't "feel overwhelmed" -- they are imitating learned behaviors that are negative and socially unkind.

I would never write off a kid for any of this stuff (in K or in older grades). Like I said -- learned behaviors. But I also wouldn't write off the behavior. Mean girl dynamics are real and we have to address them. Because you know what is overwhelming at school? Having no friends because one or two girls told everyone else you're "weird". Or developing friendships and then being told you aren't allowed to have those friends anymore because another girl says so. This stuff happens constantly among girls, not boys. We have to actually address it and not pretend it isn't happening or that boys and girls are having the same experiences. They aren't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is early mean girl stuff and we started seeing it in kindergarten (last year). Typically from girls who have older sisters.

OP here. The girl does have an older sister in fourth grade.

PP you quoted and yes - the K girls doing this last year had sisters in 4th (now 5th).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so just a note that this stuff happen with boys, but everyone is so quick to label it "mean girl" that it often gets ignored.

Kids are sometimes jerks. Please don't boil this down to queen bee nonsense. It *COULD* be that, but it most likely is a 5/6 year old kid feeling overwhelmed at school.

Does your DD have friends who do enjoy her? Great, focus on them. Have a smaller party without the mean girl (but not everyone BUT her) and just help support your DD having friends.

I know what you are going for here, but I will politely disagree. The exclusion stuff does not happen with boys at this age, at least not as frequently. Boys in early elementary tend to do a lot of group play and there is way less focus on "best friends", which just means there are fewer opportunities to exclude or to compete over friends. It can happen some, but usually the solution is "let's just all play together" and except in rare instances, that's the end of it. Girls do more 1:1 play. Also, it's hard to say whether the best friend thing is something the kids push or parents push on them, but it's definitely real. My DD's K class had three sets of "best friends" -- their parents did lots of 1:1 playdates, they would dress alike on twin day, they gravitated towards each other during all free play times. It was really hard on the other girls (my DD included) because it's like it just eliminates friend options for them because all the girls are "taken".

And I totally agree with PPs that when you see overt exclusion or teasing, it's almost always from kids with older siblings -- they are mimicking their sibling. Who is often in 2nd/3rd/4th grade and absolutely is in the thick of these mean girl behaviors. They don't "feel overwhelmed" -- they are imitating learned behaviors that are negative and socially unkind.

I would never write off a kid for any of this stuff (in K or in older grades). Like I said -- learned behaviors. But I also wouldn't write off the behavior. Mean girl dynamics are real and we have to address them. Because you know what is overwhelming at school? Having no friends because one or two girls told everyone else you're "weird". Or developing friendships and then being told you aren't allowed to have those friends anymore because another girl says so. This stuff happens constantly among girls, not boys. We have to actually address it and not pretend it isn't happening or that boys and girls are having the same experiences. They aren't.

I'm not OP, but any practicalities on how to go about this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so just a note that this stuff happen with boys, but everyone is so quick to label it "mean girl" that it often gets ignored.

Kids are sometimes jerks. Please don't boil this down to queen bee nonsense. It *COULD* be that, but it most likely is a 5/6 year old kid feeling overwhelmed at school.

Does your DD have friends who do enjoy her? Great, focus on them. Have a smaller party without the mean girl (but not everyone BUT her) and just help support your DD having friends.

I know what you are going for here, but I will politely disagree. The exclusion stuff does not happen with boys at this age, at least not as frequently. Boys in early elementary tend to do a lot of group play and there is way less focus on "best friends", which just means there are fewer opportunities to exclude or to compete over friends. It can happen some, but usually the solution is "let's just all play together" and except in rare instances, that's the end of it. Girls do more 1:1 play. Also, it's hard to say whether the best friend thing is something the kids push or parents push on them, but it's definitely real. My DD's K class had three sets of "best friends" -- their parents did lots of 1:1 playdates, they would dress alike on twin day, they gravitated towards each other during all free play times. It was really hard on the other girls (my DD included) because it's like it just eliminates friend options for them because all the girls are "taken".

And I totally agree with PPs that when you see overt exclusion or teasing, it's almost always from kids with older siblings -- they are mimicking their sibling. Who is often in 2nd/3rd/4th grade and absolutely is in the thick of these mean girl behaviors. They don't "feel overwhelmed" -- they are imitating learned behaviors that are negative and socially unkind.

I would never write off a kid for any of this stuff (in K or in older grades). Like I said -- learned behaviors. But I also wouldn't write off the behavior. Mean girl dynamics are real and we have to address them. Because you know what is overwhelming at school? Having no friends because one or two girls told everyone else you're "weird". Or developing friendships and then being told you aren't allowed to have those friends anymore because another girl says so. This stuff happens constantly among girls, not boys. We have to actually address it and not pretend it isn't happening or that boys and girls are having the same experiences. They aren't.

I'm not OP, but any practicalities on how to go about this?

Speak with the teachers to make them aware, but don't expect they will say much.

When you are around the girls, politely intervene when there is unkindness. You are modeling how to intervene in addition to interrupting their patterns and shaping their behavior.

Work with your DD on her own social skills-- being flexible, perceiving when someone wants to be left alone, sharing, respecting personal space, not being inadvertently rude or annoying. Ask yourself very honestly if your child is doing anything off-putting, and address it.

[Anonymous]

I’ve posted before about this and ended off cutting all ties with the mom and girl but for my family mean girl behavior started in kindergarten when they were five. For a five year old there was deliberate alienation from peers and people of authority and physical bullying. There ended up being school intervention. So it starts early.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD experienced this in preschool (age 4). She was told by Girl A that she couldn't play with Girl B because Girl B was Girl A's best friend and my DD was not.

My observation is that often this behavior is learned from older siblings who are engaged in similarly competitive social dynamics.

I just always reiterate to my DD that a friend is someone who likes you and wants to spend time with you, and that if you feel bad when interacting with someone, that's a sign to find someone else to spend time with. She's gotten pretty resilient. She does play alone a lot, but also seems to be slowly making a variety of good friends (not a static group but just different friends so she has choices and can find someone to play with even if the first person she approaches rebuffs her).

It's hard.

I think girls are territorial, even at young ages. My daughter made a new friend A in preschool. Friend A and B used to be in the same class the previous year. Friend B got so jealous of my daughter and the mom kind of iced me out. I guess she didn’t want Friend A to play more with my daughter than Friend B.

I have had this happen to me in elementary, high school, college and even now as an adult.

[Anonymous]

Pp here. I am in my forties. I met 2 friends a decade ago. Our kids were all the same ages. Everyone got along. One friend and I have boys with similar interests and the other one has a daughter with nothing in common with our boys. The third mom is always feeling jealous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so just a note that this stuff happen with boys, but everyone is so quick to label it "mean girl" that it often gets ignored.

Kids are sometimes jerks. Please don't boil this down to queen bee nonsense. It *COULD* be that, but it most likely is a 5/6 year old kid feeling overwhelmed at school.

Does your DD have friends who do enjoy her? Great, focus on them. Have a smaller party without the mean girl (but not everyone BUT her) and just help support your DD having friends.

I know what you are going for here, but I will politely disagree. The exclusion stuff does not happen with boys at this age, at least not as frequently. Boys in early elementary tend to do a lot of group play and there is way less focus on "best friends", which just means there are fewer opportunities to exclude or to compete over friends. It can happen some, but usually the solution is "let's just all play together" and except in rare instances, that's the end of it. Girls do more 1:1 play. Also, it's hard to say whether the best friend thing is something the kids push or parents push on them, but it's definitely real. My DD's K class had three sets of "best friends" -- their parents did lots of 1:1 playdates, they would dress alike on twin day, they gravitated towards each other during all free play times. It was really hard on the other girls (my DD included) because it's like it just eliminates friend options for them because all the girls are "taken".

And I totally agree with PPs that when you see overt exclusion or teasing, it's almost always from kids with older siblings -- they are mimicking their sibling. Who is often in 2nd/3rd/4th grade and absolutely is in the thick of these mean girl behaviors. They don't "feel overwhelmed" -- they are imitating learned behaviors that are negative and socially unkind.

I would never write off a kid for any of this stuff (in K or in older grades). Like I said -- learned behaviors. But I also wouldn't write off the behavior. Mean girl dynamics are real and we have to address them. Because you know what is overwhelming at school? Having no friends because one or two girls told everyone else you're "weird". Or developing friendships and then being told you aren't allowed to have those friends anymore because another girl says so. This stuff happens constantly among girls, not boys. We have to actually address it and not pretend it isn't happening or that boys and girls are having the same experiences. They aren't.

I'm not OP, but any practicalities on how to go about this?

I'm the PP. I think the first thing to do is to call out the behavior. Not in a way that labels the kid -- I would never call a child a "mean girl" for instance. But I do think identifying a behavior like exclusion or gossip when you encounter it, and using those words, helps to identify behaviors that are hurtful because sometimes kids are unaware of where the lines are. This means getting it straight in your own head, too. A child saying "I don't want to play with Larla" is not excluding, but a child saying "let's none of us play with Larla" IS excluding. With that second example, I will absolutely call that out as exclusive and ask the child in question how they would feel if someone suggested that no one play with her. The younger the kids are when you talk to them about this, the easier it is for them to access empathy and admit "yeah, that would feel bad" and they will remember that conversation next time.

I also think you have to teach kids healthy ways to deal with mean girl behaviors like exclusion and gossip. I think you can do this whether your child is targeted, or a bystander, or engaging in the negative behaviors. Reiterate to them that people can have lots of different friends and that no friend "belongs" to anyone else. Remind them "friends are kind" and talk to them about what kindness looks like -- friends don't make fun of appearances, they don't tease about things that feel bad, they don't talk negatively about each other when they aren't around. This will not only help your child learn NOT to do these things, it will also help them to understand that if someone else does it, they are not being friendly and to look elsewhere for friendship.

I think it helps to put less pressure on kids to make friends or to have a set of friends -- girls sometimes develop these exclusive friend groups due to pressure to have a group of friends, which can come from adults. Your child does not need a best friend or a group of friends. She just needs friends. She can have different kinds and levels of friends. She can have friends at school and friends in the neighborhood and friends at activities, and they don't have to know each other or be the same sort of person.

Reinforcing the idea that friendships should feel good and be positive forces in your life, as opposed to the idea that friendship is a competition or scarce resource you need to lock down before someone else gets it first, helps a lot. Think about how you talk about your own friendships, and how you talk about people generally. Do you tend to make little comments about other parents when they aren't around? Do you complain about people in your social circle you don't like and say stuff like "Ugh, I don't want to go to the bbq because you know Karen will be there and she just talks so much." Your kids can hear you. In some cases you might be doing something that would be okay if it was just you and your DH (everyone complains about people to their spouse) but you might need to be more thoughtful about how you speak in front of your kids, especially if you are talking about people they know and like, and especially if you are talking about the parents of peers.

Kids do not adopt these behaviors out of nowhere.

[Anonymous]

I used to teach preschool and by age 4-5 there is always at least one kid in each class that will begin directing who plays with who - we try to shut down this sort of behavior of course, but it is rarely a surprise as to who becomes the "mean girl" or cliquey girls'boys later in life.