UVA Gang rape

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not my first inclination. I'm just uncomfortable with the witch hunt for the guys at that frat before we are sure of all of the facts. Everyone was up in arms about the a Duke lacrosse team and the stripper, and then it was discovered that things weren't as depicted by the stripper. By then those guys were already put through hell.

If she's not telling the truth, then at least she's opened the door to a further investigation about what policies UVA had in place for sexual assault victims, because those polices really suck and need to be changed.

What witch hunt for the guys at the frat? Whose witch hunt?

Read the whole thread.

You mean, you're uncomfortable with a bunch of anonymous people posting stuff on an internet message board? That's not what I usually think of, when I think of a witch hunt.

You missed the part where Jeff deleted out posts that included frat members names/pictures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You mean, you're uncomfortable with a bunch of anonymous people posting stuff on an internet message board? That's not what I usually think of, when I think of a witch hunt.

You missed the part where Jeff deleted out posts that included frat members names/pictures.

Yes, I did, because he deleted them.

Also, nope, still not a witch hunt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You mean, you're uncomfortable with a bunch of anonymous people posting stuff on an internet message board? That's not what I usually think of, when I think of a witch hunt.

You missed the part where Jeff deleted out posts that included frat members names/pictures.

Yes, I did, because he deleted them.

Also, nope, still not a witch hunt.

Then we have a difference of opinion. Have a nice evening!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police should start off with determining whether or not it really happened the way she said it happened. Right now everything is based on this one person's story. Her friends didn't find her at the frat house; they found her on a "nearby street corner". There are no witnesses that we know of who have come forward.

She's a witness. Victims are witnesses. Many times the only ones. That's not a reason not to prosecute.

No one said that the guys who hurt her shouldn't be prosecuted.

No, what was said was that there were no witnesses. Wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You mean, you're uncomfortable with a bunch of anonymous people posting stuff on an internet message board? That's not what I usually think of, when I think of a witch hunt.

You missed the part where Jeff deleted out posts that included frat members names/pictures.

Yes, I did, because he deleted them.

Also, nope, still not a witch hunt.

Then we have a difference of opinion. Have a nice evening!

You get that the difference is that witches were fiction? And rape is real?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You mean, you're uncomfortable with a bunch of anonymous people posting stuff on an internet message board? That's not what I usually think of, when I think of a witch hunt.

You missed the part where Jeff deleted out posts that included frat members names/pictures.

Yes, I did, because he deleted them.

Also, nope, still not a witch hunt.

Then we have a difference of opinion. Have a nice evening!

You get that the difference is that witches were fiction? And rape is real?

Wiccans would disagree with this statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You get that the difference is that witches were fiction? And rape is real?

More to the point, in a witch hunt, actual harm comes to the (putative) witches. Whereas in this case, what has happened so far to the (potentially real) rapists is...well, nothing, actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police should start off with determining whether or not it really happened the way she said it happened. Right now everything is based on this one person's story. Her friends didn't find her at the frat house; they found her on a "nearby street corner". There are no witnesses that we know of who have come forward.

Please explain to my why someone would make up such a story.

Do you really believe everything you hear?

No, that doesn't answer the question, which is, "Please explain to me why someone would make up such a story." (I'm not the PP.) And while you're at it, please explain why all of the other women who say they were sexually assaulted at UVa would make up their stories, too.

Since you asked: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/compassion-matters/201309/why-we-lie-and-how-stop

I'm not saying that she's a liar. She may not have all of the facts straight if she was traumatized and is not remembering all of it accurately. Or she could be lying on purpose. Or she could be telling the complete truth. Point is that we don't know for sure. The fact that women have been assaulted at UVA doesn't make her story more "true" because we are talking about an extreme case.

No. Point is, we won't know the truth because for some reason UVA thinks it's acceptable to mediate actual alleged crimes internally, without police investigation or even involvement. Until universities start treating rape as crime, this will continue being a problem on many college campuses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police should start off with determining whether or not it really happened the way she said it happened. Right now everything is based on this one person's story. Her friends didn't find her at the frat house; they found her on a "nearby street corner". There are no witnesses that we know of who have come forward.

Please explain to my why someone would make up such a story.

Do you really believe everything you hear?

No, that doesn't answer the question, which is, "Please explain to me why someone would make up such a story." (I'm not the PP.) And while you're at it, please explain why all of the other women who say they were sexually assaulted at UVa would make up their stories, too.

Since you asked: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/compassion-matters/201309/why-we-lie-and-how-stop

I'm not saying that she's a liar. She may not have all of the facts straight if she was traumatized and is not remembering all of it accurately. Or she could be lying on purpose. Or she could be telling the complete truth. Point is that we don't know for sure. The fact that women have been assaulted at UVA doesn't make her story more "true" because we are talking about an extreme case.

No. Point is, we won't know the truth because for some reason UVA thinks it's acceptable to mediate actual alleged crimes internally, without police investigation or even involvement. Until universities start treating rape as crime, this will continue being a problem on many college campuses.

And until victims take the very hard step of getting a physical examination and a police report immediately after an attack, there will never be enough proof to convict anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police should start off with determining whether or not it really happened the way she said it happened. Right now everything is based on this one person's story. Her friends didn't find her at the frat house; they found her on a "nearby street corner". There are no witnesses that we know of who have come forward.

Please explain to my why someone would make up such a story.

Do you really believe everything you hear?

No, that doesn't answer the question, which is, "Please explain to me why someone would make up such a story." (I'm not the PP.) And while you're at it, please explain why all of the other women who say they were sexually assaulted at UVa would make up their stories, too.

Since you asked: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/compassion-matters/201309/why-we-lie-and-how-stop

I'm not saying that she's a liar. She may not have all of the facts straight if she was traumatized and is not remembering all of it accurately. Or she could be lying on purpose. Or she could be telling the complete truth. Point is that we don't know for sure. The fact that women have been assaulted at UVA doesn't make her story more "true" because we are talking about an extreme case.

No. Point is, we won't know the truth because for some reason UVA thinks it's acceptable to mediate actual alleged crimes internally, without police investigation or even involvement. Until universities start treating rape as crime, this will continue being a problem on many college campuses.

And until victims take the very hard step of getting a physical examination and a police report immediately after an attack, there will never be enough proof to convict anyone.

Yeah, blame those victims again! Now, how can we blame them for the backlog of unprocessed rape kits? They're behind this somehow.

[Anonymous]

This site gives no answers how it's their fault, but maybe if I look around a little more, the answer will appear... http://www.endthebacklog.org/backlog/why-backlog-exists

[Anonymous]

It's not some public place - it's the Phi Psi house, so yes, they are responsible for what goes down there. Back when I was at UVa, they barely even let guys into frat parties unless someone put your name on a list. They had bouncers at the door, and they usually had guys inside guarding the stairs - no one could go upstairs unless it was a brother. They were more likely just looking out for their personal belongings since the brothers live at the house, but I hope they were keeping an eye out for all kinds of trouble. The brothers there are at least guilty of looking the other way.

When were you at UVA?


I'm the original "here's the thing" poster. I agree with 19:52--that's what it was like when I was at UVA in the 80s. My assumption was not that they were keeping an eye out for trouble--it was that they didn't want outsiders in on what was going on upstairs. No problem going upstairs if you were a woman who was attractive, drunk, or preferably both.

The victim here said she was taken upstairs by a brother, and that one of the guys who didn't want to go through with it was told by one of the watching (non-participating) guys that he had to, they had all done it. That's not outsiders. That's brothers and pledges. Sounds like a pledge rite of passage. If true, that makes the fraternity guilty of rape.


I was there in the late 90s and it was the same then as well.


Holy crap. Well, you could have saved Jackie a lot of trouble if you spoke up about that in the late 90s. How about reporting what you know now to UVA and the police? There's no statute of limitations, so be a good citizen and go report it.

I'd love to. But I doubt the police are going to be able to do much with the fact that some brothers of a house I can't remember wouldn't let me upstairs in 1984.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police should start off with determining whether or not it really happened the way she said it happened. Right now everything is based on this one person's story. Her friends didn't find her at the frat house; they found her on a "nearby street corner". There are no witnesses that we know of who have come forward.

Please explain to my why someone would make up such a story.

For attention. To get a story in Rolling Stone magazine with reporters fawning all over you. Do you believe every story you hear? Have you never questioned anyone about their account of something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The police should start off with determining whether or not it really happened the way she said it happened. Right now everything is based on this one person's story. Her friends didn't find her at the frat house; they found her on a "nearby street corner". There are no witnesses that we know of who have come forward.

Please explain to my why someone would make up such a story.

Do you really believe everything you hear?

No, that doesn't answer the question, which is, "Please explain to me why someone would make up such a story." (I'm not the PP.) And while you're at it, please explain why all of the other women who say they were sexually assaulted at UVa would make up their stories, too.

Since you asked: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/compassion-matters/201309/why-we-lie-and-how-stop

I'm not saying that she's a liar. She may not have all of the facts straight if she was traumatized and is not remembering all of it accurately. Or she could be lying on purpose. Or she could be telling the complete truth. Point is that we don't know for sure. The fact that women have been assaulted at UVA doesn't make her story more "true" because we are talking about an extreme case.

No. Point is, we won't know the truth because for some reason UVA thinks it's acceptable to mediate actual alleged crimes internally, without police investigation or even involvement. Until universities start treating rape as crime, this will continue being a problem on many college campuses.

And until victims take the very hard step of getting a physical examination and a police report immediately after an attack, there will never be enough proof to convict anyone.

Yeah, blame those victims again! Now, how can we blame them for the backlog of unprocessed rape kits? They're behind this somehow.

Right, and it somehow makes so much more sense to wait as long as possible before deciding to come forward. Because it's just so much easier to prove a rape and get a conviction by telling your story, years later, as true as it might be. No evidence? No worries. People will just have to believe you! And if they can't prove anything in a court of law? Well, they're just victim blamers! Get a grip.

[Anonymous]

https://rainn.org/get-information/legal-information/reporting-rape