UVA Gang rape

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What can they do? Close the frats. Abolish the Greek system. That is the least they can do.

I have long wondered why this isn't done. I went to a non-Greek college and there was no shortage of social life, but none of this ridiculous "brotherhood" of secrecy. Frats and sororities need to be abolished.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me clarify: what exactly could they do without charges being filed?

They can (and probably did) the usual window dressing BS of PSAs, safety flyers and trainings, and media campaigns...but that wouldn't stop criminal thugs like the frathouse rapists.

You know what works? Filing criminal charges...not relying on internal (fake) disciplinary hearings at a university (which has a vested interest in making problems disappear). You have to call the police. Working through the university is just as dumb as complaining to the head priest when your kid is raped by another priest...stupid...involve the police if you want action to be taken.

Yeah, I don't understand why some people choose these options over criminal prosecution. These are crimes committed by criminals. They need to be put in jail and labeled as convicted sex offenders to protect others.

Because criminal prosecutions drag on for a long time and you face an uphill battle when your entire history is raked over the coals. What were you wearing? Were you drinking? Have you ever flirted with a man? Basically, we know you did something to deserve this, so let's pinpoint how exactly you asked for it. Are your attackers wealthy? B/C their attorney is going to destroy you and make you wish you pretended this never happened. You have no idea what it's like to be far from home, making new friends, and relying on a shaky support network when something like this happens. You have no idea how an attack, a violation of this magnitude just utterly destroys you from the inside out. How you blame yourself for something as simple as going to a party or straightening your hair or wearing an outfit that was flattering. You aren't thinking clearly and when the first people you come in contact with talk about how your fragile little world is going to be further destroyed and your reputation ruined, you aren't exactly running to the local police station to sign up for more devastation and the prospect of facing potential threats from the people who already killed a huge part of you -- your safety, your security, your faith in people. Then, when you're brave enough to report to the school, you're met with phony support and gentle urging not to push charges b/c "it's so hard to prove" but maybe you should consider pursuing this lesser avenue through the university to "make the bad guys pay." Only then, the administration holds all the cards and nothing really happens to the animals b/c for the administration, it's all about protecting the school reputation and the almighty dollar. Does that help you understand a little bit better? You have absolutely no idea what kind of inner turmoil, self-doubt, and overwhelming fear is triggered by this kind of attack, particularly when you likely have to face your attackers and their friends on campus and fear harassment and retaliation around every corner.

Right, because the option of staying silent and suffering from depression and/or thoughts of suicide for years is so much easier and healthier. Either way, there is no painless solution, but I'd sure as hell report a criminal situation and suffer whatever blowback came of it, than make myself ill and spend every waking moment reliving a nightmare with no resolution ever to come, not to mention facing your attackers on campus and watching them laugh as they get away with rape. Does that help you understand a bit better?

[Anonymous]

It sounds like that pp has experienced sexual trauma and never reported it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me clarify: what exactly could they do without charges being filed?

They can (and probably did) the usual window dressing BS of PSAs, safety flyers and trainings, and media campaigns...but that wouldn't stop criminal thugs like the frathouse rapists.

You know what works? Filing criminal charges...not relying on internal (fake) disciplinary hearings at a university (which has a vested interest in making problems disappear). You have to call the police. Working through the university is just as dumb as complaining to the head priest when your kid is raped by another priest...stupid...involve the police if you want action to be taken.

Yeah, I don't understand why some people choose these options over criminal prosecution. These are crimes committed by criminals. They need to be put in jail and labeled as convicted sex offenders to protect others.

Because criminal prosecutions drag on for a long time and you face an uphill battle when your entire history is raked over the coals. What were you wearing? Were you drinking? Have you ever flirted with a man? Basically, we know you did something to deserve this, so let's pinpoint how exactly you asked for it. Are your attackers wealthy? B/C their attorney is going to destroy you and make you wish you pretended this never happened. You have no idea what it's like to be far from home, making new friends, and relying on a shaky support network when something like this happens. You have no idea how an attack, a violation of this magnitude just utterly destroys you from the inside out. How you blame yourself for something as simple as going to a party or straightening your hair or wearing an outfit that was flattering. You aren't thinking clearly and when the first people you come in contact with talk about how your fragile little world is going to be further destroyed and your reputation ruined, you aren't exactly running to the local police station to sign up for more devastation and the prospect of facing potential threats from the people who already killed a huge part of you -- your safety, your security, your faith in people. Then, when you're brave enough to report to the school, you're met with phony support and gentle urging not to push charges b/c "it's so hard to prove" but maybe you should consider pursuing this lesser avenue through the university to "make the bad guys pay." Only then, the administration holds all the cards and nothing really happens to the animals b/c for the administration, it's all about protecting the school reputation and the almighty dollar. Does that help you understand a little bit better? You have absolutely no idea what kind of inner turmoil, self-doubt, and overwhelming fear is triggered by this kind of attack, particularly when you likely have to face your attackers and their friends on campus and fear harassment and retaliation around every corner.

Right, because the option of staying silent and suffering from depression and/or thoughts of suicide for years is so much easier and healthier. Either way, there is no painless solution, but I'd sure as hell report a criminal situation and suffer whatever blowback came of it, than make myself ill and spend every waking moment reliving a nightmare with no resolution ever to come, not to mention facing your attackers on campus and watching them laugh as they get away with rape. Does that help you understand a bit better?

Not the PP, but have you ever been sexually assaulted? Have you ever been raped? It's very easy to say what you would do... and a lot less clear when you're actually faced with the situation. Especially when you're young, away from home, and have not one person around you supporting you.

It's funny. I feel much the way you do when I think about it. That if I were ever violently raped like that, of course I'd report it. No question, right? But I was raped non-violently when I was 21 (I was drugged), and I didn't report it. I tried to tell a close friend, but she didn't believe me - he was a friend of hers too, and he said it was consensual. It was years before I ever told anyone else. I was never suicidal, but I was changed, and to this day I get nauseous when I see a man with long dirty bond hair. With the perspective of 15 years now, I wonder how I could have done things differently. I wonder if he raped other women and if I could have prevented that. Those things were hard to see though when I was 21. One of my best friends didn't believe me; why would I think anyone else would?

Anyway, not so simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me clarify: what exactly could they do without charges being filed?

They can (and probably did) the usual window dressing BS of PSAs, safety flyers and trainings, and media campaigns...but that wouldn't stop criminal thugs like the frathouse rapists.

You know what works? Filing criminal charges...not relying on internal (fake) disciplinary hearings at a university (which has a vested interest in making problems disappear). You have to call the police. Working through the university is just as dumb as complaining to the head priest when your kid is raped by another priest...stupid...involve the police if you want action to be taken.

Yeah, I don't understand why some people choose these options over criminal prosecution. These are crimes committed by criminals. They need to be put in jail and labeled as convicted sex offenders to protect others.

Because criminal prosecutions drag on for a long time and you face an uphill battle when your entire history is raked over the coals. What were you wearing? Were you drinking? Have you ever flirted with a man? Basically, we know you did something to deserve this, so let's pinpoint how exactly you asked for it. Are your attackers wealthy? B/C their attorney is going to destroy you and make you wish you pretended this never happened. You have no idea what it's like to be far from home, making new friends, and relying on a shaky support network when something like this happens. You have no idea how an attack, a violation of this magnitude just utterly destroys you from the inside out. How you blame yourself for something as simple as going to a party or straightening your hair or wearing an outfit that was flattering. You aren't thinking clearly and when the first people you come in contact with talk about how your fragile little world is going to be further destroyed and your reputation ruined, you aren't exactly running to the local police station to sign up for more devastation and the prospect of facing potential threats from the people who already killed a huge part of you -- your safety, your security, your faith in people. Then, when you're brave enough to report to the school, you're met with phony support and gentle urging not to push charges b/c "it's so hard to prove" but maybe you should consider pursuing this lesser avenue through the university to "make the bad guys pay." Only then, the administration holds all the cards and nothing really happens to the animals b/c for the administration, it's all about protecting the school reputation and the almighty dollar. Does that help you understand a little bit better? You have absolutely no idea what kind of inner turmoil, self-doubt, and overwhelming fear is triggered by this kind of attack, particularly when you likely have to face your attackers and their friends on campus and fear harassment and retaliation around every corner.

Right, because the option of staying silent and suffering from depression and/or thoughts of suicide for years is so much easier and healthier. Either way, there is no painless solution, but I'd sure as hell report a criminal situation and suffer whatever blowback came of it, than make myself ill and spend every waking moment reliving a nightmare with no resolution ever to come, not to mention facing your attackers on campus and watching them laugh as they get away with rape. Does that help you understand a bit better?

It's nice to have the luxury to only have to imagine how you would react in a similar situation. I don't need an anonymous person imagining their hypothetical reaction to being raped to help me understand the response any better. I lived it when I was given roofies and raped my freshman year (not at UVA). I was describing the barriers to pressing charges from the perspective of someone who has lived it and explaining why it's so hard to do what you think would be the logical next step. By senior year, I had learned of 5 other women who were raped by the same man. Believe me, I regret my decision not to prosecute every single day. I had a rape kit, ripped clothing, police report, and phone messages, but in my darkest moment, thousands of miles away from home, I, too, was being advised by those who didn't have my best interest in mind. I was also threatened with retaliation by his "brothers" from the most popular frat on campus. I was warned walking across campus that he came from a lot of money and they would bury me if I pursued anything. I was 18 years old, alone, and I was terrified. Yeah, I would think i'd react the way you described, but being raped isn't just about the physical attack, it also kills your strength and resolve and in my case, you find ways to blame yourself bc if you believe you could've done just one thing differently, then you have the power to keep it from ever happening again.

[Anonymous]

^ then you *think* you have the power to keep it from ever happening again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What can they do? Close the frats. Abolish the Greek system. That is the least they can do.

I have long wondered why this isn't done. I went to a non-Greek college and there was no shortage of social life, but none of this ridiculous "brotherhood" of secrecy. Frats and sororities need to be abolished.

Doesn't really make a difference. I was in a university town last weekend and they met people from unofficial fraternities. Nothing to prevent them from forming a club and renting a house and having parties.

[Anonymous]

It's probably good that she didn't report it to police. The way it turned out... The whole thing is blowing up like a volcano and the school is rightfully getting its reputation ruined and the frat perpetrators are probably terrified.

[Anonymous]

I found the article shocking. We've all known that rape occurs on college campuses, but what is described in the article isn't a culture where rape happens and is quietly swept under the rug. It's a culture of a GANG rape that is tolerated and swept under the rug. The men described in the article go on as if it's nothing. These men are monsters. The university is monstrous for treating it as just a part of university life that can be dealt with without encouraging victims to involve the authorities.

[Anonymous]

Here's another thought: teach your kids NOT to accept drinks from men. Teach your kids NOT to go to Fraternity parties.

[Anonymous]

I was shocked as well. I can't understand how 7 young men could do such a thing. I agree with the prior poster about it being a police matter- it's criminal behaivor. Those young men should have all been sent to prison. I hope they at least feel guilt and remorse and have a hard time looking at themselves in the mirror each morning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was shocked as well. I can't understand how 7 young men could do such a thing. I agree with the prior poster about it being a police matter- it's criminal behaivor. Those young men should have all been sent to prison. I hope they at least feel guilt and remorse and have a hard time looking at themselves in the mirror each morning.

There is no statute of limitations on rape in VA . so, thank God, it isn't too late for them to be prosecuted. There's alwsys a weak link who will give up the others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's another thought: teach your kids NOT to accept drinks from men. Teach your kids NOT to go to Fraternity parties.

You have amazing parental powers if you think everything you teach your kids is what they'll choose, every time, when they are legally adults and you have no idea where they are or what they're doing.

Also, while this would in theory solve the issue, there are plenty of other scenarios in which women are raped. As parents we cannot possibly think we can prepare our daughters for every scenario.

[Anonymous]

The administration is failing it's women by encouraging them not to pursue criminal charges in these cases. The fraternities need to be permanently shut down, not just shut down for a month during the holidays. WTF. I don't see how Greek life can continue. Did you read the disgusting rugby road songs??? I am furious as a Virginia resident whose tax dollars fund this school. DD is a long way from college but as of now I would strongly discourage her from going there. Sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was shocked as well. I can't understand how 7 young men could do such a thing. I agree with the prior poster about it being a police matter- it's criminal behaivor. Those young men should have all been sent to prison. I hope they at least feel guilt and remorse and have a hard time looking at themselves in the mirror each morning.

There is no statute of limitations on rape in VA . so, thank God, it isn't too late for them to be prosecuted. There's alwsys a weak link who will give up the others.

I could be wrong, but I think this morning's cnn coverage said the authorities are officially investigating this case now. The Rolling Stones article leaves off with the victim not prepared to go there. Hopefully the article will empower the victim to help prosecute.