U of St Andrews - Admissions per State

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are the exact USA numbers according to OP for 2023:

Applications: 2218
Enrolled: 471
Yield: 33 percent

My math says that if these numbers are correct then 1413 were admitted, an admit rate of 63.7 percent. That’s safety school territory for the USA top 50.

English PP here. This is what infuriates some of us. Your american kids get a free pass. For our kids this is a tough admit. Two of my three children applied to St Andrews. One accepted and rejected at Oxford. The other accepted at Oxford and rejected at St Andrews. 3rd one didnt even try and is now in the US. But it funny that americans equate admission % to quality. As a previous poster mentioned, I guess that means Northeastern is better than Oxbridge….

I hear you. It's always the same story, isn't it? Money and privilege. The typical US student at St Andrews comes from money and has an elite private high school education. But they're not high achievers at their schools, don't have the academic chops for admission to the top privates in the US, and wouldn't be caught dead at a public school. So they turn down second tier privates in the US to attend St Andrews to save face.

Congrats on Northwestern btw. If it's any consolation, the vast majority of US students who end up at St Andrews wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting into Northwestern. So there's that at least.

You know this is BS right?

I have two kids who studied at Dartmouth and St Andrews. Dartmouth kid (PoliSci and History minor), St Andrews kid (IR and History double honors). Both kids had the exact same SAT score (1560). My St Andrews kids wanted to go away and turned down Dartmouth. Husband and I are Dartmouth grads. Oldest went there. Second one applied, got it and yet, decided no to attend as she wanted to go away.

So please, dont make generalizations based on what your view of “Typical” US St Andrews students are like. You might know a couple. We have come to know a few dozen over the years. Yes a large part fit the wealthy private school kids profile you indicated, but you are just s o wrong on the AVG American comment…anyhow.

After St Andrews she spent 4 yrs at LSE (graduate programs) is now teaching at a not to be named school in France.

So I say that a “typical” USA student at St Andrews is a rich private school kid, and you argue with that and say no, it’s not typical. It’s just a “large part.” Sounds like we’re splitting hairs here doesn’t it?

Ask your son who went to St Andrews how many of his American classmates turned down Ivy League offers to go there. And while you’re at it, ask him how many were not double legacies. What other Ivy League schools did your son get into besides your and your husband’s alma mater?

First of all, it is a SHE. My Dartmouth kids got in Penn, Notre Dame, Georgetown. My Dartmouth kid that went away, got into Cornell, Williams, Barnard.

And to continue the conversation. Her American friends were all over the place. Some turned down similar offers as my daughter (her best friend turned down Brown), others turned down a number of SLACS, others turned down schools in the t20-t40 range to be there. Your attitude is a little extreme.

But the large majority did not. Every Ivy League school has a yield of well over 50 percent. Like, well over. USA students accepted to an Ivy League school are highly likely to accept the offer, and when they don’t it’s because they choose Duke, Stanford, MIT etc. Not St Andrews. I’m not saying it never happens but it’s not routine. I’ll put it this way: there are way more USA kids at St Andrew’s who were rejected by the top ten or 15 USA universities than were accepted.

I respect St Andrew’s. But when it comes to the admissions process for USA students it’s just not that difficult.

Why is everyone caught up in the US admissions process and acceptance rate?

The key message here is that St Andrews is on the same level as the Top 10-15 schools in the US, even though it has a lower bar of entry. If anything this should encourage you to apply to St Andrews.

Here are the top 15 USA universities. Which of these is St Andrew’s on the “same level” as?

Princeton
MIT
Harvard
Stanford
Yale
Cal Tech
Duke
Johns Hopkins
Northwestern
Penn
Cornell
Chicago
Brown
Columbia
Dartmouth

I’ll wait.

The bottom 7/8. How do I know this?

1) Look at other posts on this thread- parents have stated that their kids were accepted into those 7/8 schools and gone to St Andrews instead. I know multiple students in the same category myself.

2) I have personally worked with the top consulting firms (McKinsey, BCG, etc) they view St Andrews as equally prestigious to lower ivies. I even know partners at those firms who are St Andrews grads.

3) I have spoke to recruiters at investment banking firms in NYC and London. They are actively targeting St Andrews grads over US schools.

4) Look at the “graduate prospectus” category on the UK league tables, which are data based. The scores for St Andrews are about the same as Oxford/Cambridge/LSE. This suggests St Andrews graduates do very well.

I’m judging the school by academic caliber and graduate prospectus. Not laymen knowledge..

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are the exact USA numbers according to OP for 2023:

Applications: 2218
Enrolled: 471
Yield: 33 percent

My math says that if these numbers are correct then 1413 were admitted, an admit rate of 63.7 percent. That’s safety school territory for the USA top 50.

English PP here. This is what infuriates some of us. Your american kids get a free pass. For our kids this is a tough admit. Two of my three children applied to St Andrews. One accepted and rejected at Oxford. The other accepted at Oxford and rejected at St Andrews. 3rd one didnt even try and is now in the US. But it funny that americans equate admission % to quality. As a previous poster mentioned, I guess that means Northeastern is better than Oxbridge….

I hear you. It's always the same story, isn't it? Money and privilege. The typical US student at St Andrews comes from money and has an elite private high school education. But they're not high achievers at their schools, don't have the academic chops for admission to the top privates in the US, and wouldn't be caught dead at a public school. So they turn down second tier privates in the US to attend St Andrews to save face.

Congrats on Northwestern btw. If it's any consolation, the vast majority of US students who end up at St Andrews wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting into Northwestern. So there's that at least.

You know this is BS right?

I have two kids who studied at Dartmouth and St Andrews. Dartmouth kid (PoliSci and History minor), St Andrews kid (IR and History double honors). Both kids had the exact same SAT score (1560). My St Andrews kids wanted to go away and turned down Dartmouth. Husband and I are Dartmouth grads. Oldest went there. Second one applied, got it and yet, decided no to attend as she wanted to go away.

So please, dont make generalizations based on what your view of “Typical” US St Andrews students are like. You might know a couple. We have come to know a few dozen over the years. Yes a large part fit the wealthy private school kids profile you indicated, but you are just s o wrong on the AVG American comment…anyhow.

After St Andrews she spent 4 yrs at LSE (graduate programs) is now teaching at a not to be named school in France.

So I say that a “typical” USA student at St Andrews is a rich private school kid, and you argue with that and say no, it’s not typical. It’s just a “large part.” Sounds like we’re splitting hairs here doesn’t it?

Ask your son who went to St Andrews how many of his American classmates turned down Ivy League offers to go there. And while you’re at it, ask him how many were not double legacies. What other Ivy League schools did your son get into besides your and your husband’s alma mater?

First of all, it is a SHE. My Dartmouth kids got in Penn, Notre Dame, Georgetown. My Dartmouth kid that went away, got into Cornell, Williams, Barnard.

And to continue the conversation. Her American friends were all over the place. Some turned down similar offers as my daughter (her best friend turned down Brown), others turned down a number of SLACS, others turned down schools in the t20-t40 range to be there. Your attitude is a little extreme.

But the large majority did not. Every Ivy League school has a yield of well over 50 percent. Like, well over. USA students accepted to an Ivy League school are highly likely to accept the offer, and when they don’t it’s because they choose Duke, Stanford, MIT etc. Not St Andrews. I’m not saying it never happens but it’s not routine. I’ll put it this way: there are way more USA kids at St Andrew’s who were rejected by the top ten or 15 USA universities than were accepted.

I respect St Andrew’s. But when it comes to the admissions process for USA students it’s just not that difficult.

Why is everyone caught up in the US admissions process and acceptance rate?

The key message here is that St Andrews is on the same level as the Top 10-15 schools in the US, even though it has a lower bar of entry. If anything this should encourage you to apply to St Andrews.

Here are the top 15 USA universities. Which of these is St Andrew’s on the “same level” as?

Princeton
MIT
Harvard
Stanford
Yale
Cal Tech
Duke
Johns Hopkins
Northwestern
Penn
Cornell
Chicago
Brown
Columbia
Dartmouth

I’ll wait.

The bottom 7/8. How do I know this?

1) Look at other posts on this thread- parents have stated that their kids were accepted into those 7/8 schools and gone to St Andrews instead. I know multiple students in the same category myself.

2) I have personally worked with the top consulting firms (McKinsey, BCG, etc) they view St Andrews as equally prestigious to lower ivies. I even know partners at those firms who are St Andrews grads.

3) I have spoke to recruiters at investment banking firms in NYC and London. They are actively targeting St Andrews grads over US schools.

4) Look at the “graduate prospectus” category on the UK league tables, which are data based. The scores for St Andrews are about the same as Oxford/Cambridge/LSE. This suggests St Andrews graduates do very well.

I’m judging the school by academic caliber and graduate prospectus. Not laymen knowledge..

Not even close to the top “7 or 8” in the USA.

The person provided 4 fair points. What are your counter points? Seems like you may fall in the laymen category

DP. The counterpoint is that none of these firms actually view St Andrew’s this way. Points 2 and 3 are complete nonsense, especially the idea that US offices view it this way. London offices may recruit there but there are like 10 other UK universities they’ll also recruit from. 1 is anecdotal based on a handful of comments but the yields at those schools and where we know those kids go otherwise doesn’t add up.

[Anonymous]

StA boosters make the Bucknell booster look normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are the exact USA numbers according to OP for 2023:

Applications: 2218
Enrolled: 471
Yield: 33 percent

My math says that if these numbers are correct then 1413 were admitted, an admit rate of 63.7 percent. That’s safety school territory for the USA top 50.

English PP here. This is what infuriates some of us. Your american kids get a free pass. For our kids this is a tough admit. Two of my three children applied to St Andrews. One accepted and rejected at Oxford. The other accepted at Oxford and rejected at St Andrews. 3rd one didnt even try and is now in the US. But it funny that americans equate admission % to quality. As a previous poster mentioned, I guess that means Northeastern is better than Oxbridge….

I hear you. It's always the same story, isn't it? Money and privilege. The typical US student at St Andrews comes from money and has an elite private high school education. But they're not high achievers at their schools, don't have the academic chops for admission to the top privates in the US, and wouldn't be caught dead at a public school. So they turn down second tier privates in the US to attend St Andrews to save face.

Congrats on Northwestern btw. If it's any consolation, the vast majority of US students who end up at St Andrews wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting into Northwestern. So there's that at least.

You know this is BS right?

I have two kids who studied at Dartmouth and St Andrews. Dartmouth kid (PoliSci and History minor), St Andrews kid (IR and History double honors). Both kids had the exact same SAT score (1560). My St Andrews kids wanted to go away and turned down Dartmouth. Husband and I are Dartmouth grads. Oldest went there. Second one applied, got it and yet, decided no to attend as she wanted to go away.

So please, dont make generalizations based on what your view of “Typical” US St Andrews students are like. You might know a couple. We have come to know a few dozen over the years. Yes a large part fit the wealthy private school kids profile you indicated, but you are just s o wrong on the AVG American comment…anyhow.

After St Andrews she spent 4 yrs at LSE (graduate programs) is now teaching at a not to be named school in France.

So I say that a “typical” USA student at St Andrews is a rich private school kid, and you argue with that and say no, it’s not typical. It’s just a “large part.” Sounds like we’re splitting hairs here doesn’t it?

Ask your son who went to St Andrews how many of his American classmates turned down Ivy League offers to go there. And while you’re at it, ask him how many were not double legacies. What other Ivy League schools did your son get into besides your and your husband’s alma mater?

First of all, it is a SHE. My Dartmouth kids got in Penn, Notre Dame, Georgetown. My Dartmouth kid that went away, got into Cornell, Williams, Barnard.

And to continue the conversation. Her American friends were all over the place. Some turned down similar offers as my daughter (her best friend turned down Brown), others turned down a number of SLACS, others turned down schools in the t20-t40 range to be there. Your attitude is a little extreme.

But the large majority did not. Every Ivy League school has a yield of well over 50 percent. Like, well over. USA students accepted to an Ivy League school are highly likely to accept the offer, and when they don’t it’s because they choose Duke, Stanford, MIT etc. Not St Andrews. I’m not saying it never happens but it’s not routine. I’ll put it this way: there are way more USA kids at St Andrew’s who were rejected by the top ten or 15 USA universities than were accepted.

I respect St Andrew’s. But when it comes to the admissions process for USA students it’s just not that difficult.

Why is everyone caught up in the US admissions process and acceptance rate?

The key message here is that St Andrews is on the same level as the Top 10-15 schools in the US, even though it has a lower bar of entry. If anything this should encourage you to apply to St Andrews.

Here are the top 15 USA universities. Which of these is St Andrew’s on the “same level” as?

Princeton
MIT
Harvard
Stanford
Yale
Cal Tech
Duke
Johns Hopkins
Northwestern
Penn
Cornell
Chicago
Brown
Columbia
Dartmouth

I’ll wait.

The bottom 7/8. How do I know this?

1) Look at other posts on this thread- parents have stated that their kids were accepted into those 7/8 schools and gone to St Andrews instead. I know multiple students in the same category myself.

2) I have personally worked with the top consulting firms (McKinsey, BCG, etc) they view St Andrews as equally prestigious to lower ivies. I even know partners at those firms who are St Andrews grads.

3) I have spoke to recruiters at investment banking firms in NYC and London. They are actively targeting St Andrews grads over US schools.

4) Look at the “graduate prospectus” category on the UK league tables, which are data based. The scores for St Andrews are about the same as Oxford/Cambridge/LSE. This suggests St Andrews graduates do very well.

I’m judging the school by academic caliber and graduate prospectus. Not laymen knowledge..

Not even close to the top “7 or 8” in the USA.

The person provided 4 fair points. What are your counter points? Seems like you may fall in the laymen category

St Andrews does not carry the same reputation IN THE USA as the top 15 USA schools. Full stop. And in the UK, yes, it is a highly selective school THERE but even there its reputation isn’t universally recognized as top tier. Many employers and academics consider it overrated. It’s basically the Northeastern of the UK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are the exact USA numbers according to OP for 2023:

Applications: 2218
Enrolled: 471
Yield: 33 percent

My math says that if these numbers are correct then 1413 were admitted, an admit rate of 63.7 percent. That’s safety school territory for the USA top 50.

English PP here. This is what infuriates some of us. Your american kids get a free pass. For our kids this is a tough admit. Two of my three children applied to St Andrews. One accepted and rejected at Oxford. The other accepted at Oxford and rejected at St Andrews. 3rd one didnt even try and is now in the US. But it funny that americans equate admission % to quality. As a previous poster mentioned, I guess that means Northeastern is better than Oxbridge….

I hear you. It's always the same story, isn't it? Money and privilege. The typical US student at St Andrews comes from money and has an elite private high school education. But they're not high achievers at their schools, don't have the academic chops for admission to the top privates in the US, and wouldn't be caught dead at a public school. So they turn down second tier privates in the US to attend St Andrews to save face.

Congrats on Northwestern btw. If it's any consolation, the vast majority of US students who end up at St Andrews wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting into Northwestern. So there's that at least.

You know this is BS right?

I have two kids who studied at Dartmouth and St Andrews. Dartmouth kid (PoliSci and History minor), St Andrews kid (IR and History double honors). Both kids had the exact same SAT score (1560). My St Andrews kids wanted to go away and turned down Dartmouth. Husband and I are Dartmouth grads. Oldest went there. Second one applied, got it and yet, decided no to attend as she wanted to go away.

So please, dont make generalizations based on what your view of “Typical” US St Andrews students are like. You might know a couple. We have come to know a few dozen over the years. Yes a large part fit the wealthy private school kids profile you indicated, but you are just s o wrong on the AVG American comment…anyhow.

After St Andrews she spent 4 yrs at LSE (graduate programs) is now teaching at a not to be named school in France.

So I say that a “typical” USA student at St Andrews is a rich private school kid, and you argue with that and say no, it’s not typical. It’s just a “large part.” Sounds like we’re splitting hairs here doesn’t it?

Ask your son who went to St Andrews how many of his American classmates turned down Ivy League offers to go there. And while you’re at it, ask him how many were not double legacies. What other Ivy League schools did your son get into besides your and your husband’s alma mater?

First of all, it is a SHE. My Dartmouth kids got in Penn, Notre Dame, Georgetown. My Dartmouth kid that went away, got into Cornell, Williams, Barnard.

And to continue the conversation. Her American friends were all over the place. Some turned down similar offers as my daughter (her best friend turned down Brown), others turned down a number of SLACS, others turned down schools in the t20-t40 range to be there. Your attitude is a little extreme.

But the large majority did not. Every Ivy League school has a yield of well over 50 percent. Like, well over. USA students accepted to an Ivy League school are highly likely to accept the offer, and when they don’t it’s because they choose Duke, Stanford, MIT etc. Not St Andrews. I’m not saying it never happens but it’s not routine. I’ll put it this way: there are way more USA kids at St Andrew’s who were rejected by the top ten or 15 USA universities than were accepted.

I respect St Andrew’s. But when it comes to the admissions process for USA students it’s just not that difficult.

Why is everyone caught up in the US admissions process and acceptance rate?

The key message here is that St Andrews is on the same level as the Top 10-15 schools in the US, even though it has a lower bar of entry. If anything this should encourage you to apply to St Andrews.

Here are the top 15 USA universities. Which of these is St Andrew’s on the “same level” as?

Princeton
MIT
Harvard
Stanford
Yale
Cal Tech
Duke
Johns Hopkins
Northwestern
Penn
Cornell
Chicago
Brown
Columbia
Dartmouth

I’ll wait.

The bottom 7/8. How do I know this?

1) Look at other posts on this thread- parents have stated that their kids were accepted into those 7/8 schools and gone to St Andrews instead. I know multiple students in the same category myself.

2) I have personally worked with the top consulting firms (McKinsey, BCG, etc) they view St Andrews as equally prestigious to lower ivies. I even know partners at those firms who are St Andrews grads.

3) I have spoke to recruiters at investment banking firms in NYC and London. They are actively targeting St Andrews grads over US schools.

4) Look at the “graduate prospectus” category on the UK league tables, which are data based. The scores for St Andrews are about the same as Oxford/Cambridge/LSE. This suggests St Andrews graduates do very well.

I’m judging the school by academic caliber and graduate prospectus. Not laymen knowledge..

Not even close to the top “7 or 8” in the USA.

The person provided 4 fair points. What are your counter points? Seems like you may fall in the laymen category

St Andrews does not carry the same reputation IN THE USA as the top 15 USA schools. Full stop. And in the UK, yes, it is a highly selective school THERE but even there its reputation isn’t universally recognized as top tier. Many employers and academics consider it overrated. It’s basically the Northeastern of the UK.

Explain the high graduate prospectus score on the UK league tables

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are the exact USA numbers according to OP for 2023:

Applications: 2218
Enrolled: 471
Yield: 33 percent

My math says that if these numbers are correct then 1413 were admitted, an admit rate of 63.7 percent. That’s safety school territory for the USA top 50.

English PP here. This is what infuriates some of us. Your american kids get a free pass. For our kids this is a tough admit. Two of my three children applied to St Andrews. One accepted and rejected at Oxford. The other accepted at Oxford and rejected at St Andrews. 3rd one didnt even try and is now in the US. But it funny that americans equate admission % to quality. As a previous poster mentioned, I guess that means Northeastern is better than Oxbridge….

I hear you. It's always the same story, isn't it? Money and privilege. The typical US student at St Andrews comes from money and has an elite private high school education. But they're not high achievers at their schools, don't have the academic chops for admission to the top privates in the US, and wouldn't be caught dead at a public school. So they turn down second tier privates in the US to attend St Andrews to save face.

Congrats on Northwestern btw. If it's any consolation, the vast majority of US students who end up at St Andrews wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting into Northwestern. So there's that at least.

You know this is BS right?

I have two kids who studied at Dartmouth and St Andrews. Dartmouth kid (PoliSci and History minor), St Andrews kid (IR and History double honors). Both kids had the exact same SAT score (1560). My St Andrews kids wanted to go away and turned down Dartmouth. Husband and I are Dartmouth grads. Oldest went there. Second one applied, got it and yet, decided no to attend as she wanted to go away.

So please, dont make generalizations based on what your view of “Typical” US St Andrews students are like. You might know a couple. We have come to know a few dozen over the years. Yes a large part fit the wealthy private school kids profile you indicated, but you are just s o wrong on the AVG American comment…anyhow.

After St Andrews she spent 4 yrs at LSE (graduate programs) is now teaching at a not to be named school in France.

So I say that a “typical” USA student at St Andrews is a rich private school kid, and you argue with that and say no, it’s not typical. It’s just a “large part.” Sounds like we’re splitting hairs here doesn’t it?

Ask your son who went to St Andrews how many of his American classmates turned down Ivy League offers to go there. And while you’re at it, ask him how many were not double legacies. What other Ivy League schools did your son get into besides your and your husband’s alma mater?

First of all, it is a SHE. My Dartmouth kids got in Penn, Notre Dame, Georgetown. My Dartmouth kid that went away, got into Cornell, Williams, Barnard.

And to continue the conversation. Her American friends were all over the place. Some turned down similar offers as my daughter (her best friend turned down Brown), others turned down a number of SLACS, others turned down schools in the t20-t40 range to be there. Your attitude is a little extreme.

But the large majority did not. Every Ivy League school has a yield of well over 50 percent. Like, well over. USA students accepted to an Ivy League school are highly likely to accept the offer, and when they don’t it’s because they choose Duke, Stanford, MIT etc. Not St Andrews. I’m not saying it never happens but it’s not routine. I’ll put it this way: there are way more USA kids at St Andrew’s who were rejected by the top ten or 15 USA universities than were accepted.

I respect St Andrew’s. But when it comes to the admissions process for USA students it’s just not that difficult.

Why is everyone caught up in the US admissions process and acceptance rate?

The key message here is that St Andrews is on the same level as the Top 10-15 schools in the US, even though it has a lower bar of entry. If anything this should encourage you to apply to St Andrews.

Here are the top 15 USA universities. Which of these is St Andrew’s on the “same level” as?

Princeton
MIT
Harvard
Stanford
Yale
Cal Tech
Duke
Johns Hopkins
Northwestern
Penn
Cornell
Chicago
Brown
Columbia
Dartmouth

I’ll wait.

The bottom 7/8. How do I know this?

1) Look at other posts on this thread- parents have stated that their kids were accepted into those 7/8 schools and gone to St Andrews instead. I know multiple students in the same category myself.

2) I have personally worked with the top consulting firms (McKinsey, BCG, etc) they view St Andrews as equally prestigious to lower ivies. I even know partners at those firms who are St Andrews grads.

3) I have spoke to recruiters at investment banking firms in NYC and London. They are actively targeting St Andrews grads over US schools.

4) Look at the “graduate prospectus” category on the UK league tables, which are data based. The scores for St Andrews are about the same as Oxford/Cambridge/LSE. This suggests St Andrews graduates do very well.

I’m judging the school by academic caliber and graduate prospectus. Not laymen knowledge..

Not even close to the top “7 or 8” in the USA.

The person provided 4 fair points. What are your counter points? Seems like you may fall in the laymen category

DP. The counterpoint is that none of these firms actually view St Andrew’s this way. Points 2 and 3 are complete nonsense, especially the idea that US offices view it this way. London offices may recruit there but there are like 10 other UK universities they’ll also recruit from. 1 is anecdotal based on a handful of comments but the yields at those schools and where we know those kids go otherwise doesn’t add up.

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are the exact USA numbers according to OP for 2023:

Applications: 2218
Enrolled: 471
Yield: 33 percent

My math says that if these numbers are correct then 1413 were admitted, an admit rate of 63.7 percent. That’s safety school territory for the USA top 50.

English PP here. This is what infuriates some of us. Your american kids get a free pass. For our kids this is a tough admit. Two of my three children applied to St Andrews. One accepted and rejected at Oxford. The other accepted at Oxford and rejected at St Andrews. 3rd one didnt even try and is now in the US. But it funny that americans equate admission % to quality. As a previous poster mentioned, I guess that means Northeastern is better than Oxbridge….

I hear you. It's always the same story, isn't it? Money and privilege. The typical US student at St Andrews comes from money and has an elite private high school education. But they're not high achievers at their schools, don't have the academic chops for admission to the top privates in the US, and wouldn't be caught dead at a public school. So they turn down second tier privates in the US to attend St Andrews to save face.

Congrats on Northwestern btw. If it's any consolation, the vast majority of US students who end up at St Andrews wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting into Northwestern. So there's that at least.

You know this is BS right?

I have two kids who studied at Dartmouth and St Andrews. Dartmouth kid (PoliSci and History minor), St Andrews kid (IR and History double honors). Both kids had the exact same SAT score (1560). My St Andrews kids wanted to go away and turned down Dartmouth. Husband and I are Dartmouth grads. Oldest went there. Second one applied, got it and yet, decided no to attend as she wanted to go away.

So please, dont make generalizations based on what your view of “Typical” US St Andrews students are like. You might know a couple. We have come to know a few dozen over the years. Yes a large part fit the wealthy private school kids profile you indicated, but you are just s o wrong on the AVG American comment…anyhow.

After St Andrews she spent 4 yrs at LSE (graduate programs) is now teaching at a not to be named school in France.

So I say that a “typical” USA student at St Andrews is a rich private school kid, and you argue with that and say no, it’s not typical. It’s just a “large part.” Sounds like we’re splitting hairs here doesn’t it?

Ask your son who went to St Andrews how many of his American classmates turned down Ivy League offers to go there. And while you’re at it, ask him how many were not double legacies. What other Ivy League schools did your son get into besides your and your husband’s alma mater?

First of all, it is a SHE. My Dartmouth kids got in Penn, Notre Dame, Georgetown. My Dartmouth kid that went away, got into Cornell, Williams, Barnard.

And to continue the conversation. Her American friends were all over the place. Some turned down similar offers as my daughter (her best friend turned down Brown), others turned down a number of SLACS, others turned down schools in the t20-t40 range to be there. Your attitude is a little extreme.

But the large majority did not. Every Ivy League school has a yield of well over 50 percent. Like, well over. USA students accepted to an Ivy League school are highly likely to accept the offer, and when they don’t it’s because they choose Duke, Stanford, MIT etc. Not St Andrews. I’m not saying it never happens but it’s not routine. I’ll put it this way: there are way more USA kids at St Andrew’s who were rejected by the top ten or 15 USA universities than were accepted.

I respect St Andrew’s. But when it comes to the admissions process for USA students it’s just not that difficult.

Why is everyone caught up in the US admissions process and acceptance rate?

The key message here is that St Andrews is on the same level as the Top 10-15 schools in the US, even though it has a lower bar of entry. If anything this should encourage you to apply to St Andrews.

Here are the top 15 USA universities. Which of these is St Andrew’s on the “same level” as?

Princeton
MIT
Harvard
Stanford
Yale
Cal Tech
Duke
Johns Hopkins
Northwestern
Penn
Cornell
Chicago
Brown
Columbia
Dartmouth

I’ll wait.

The bottom 7/8. How do I know this?

1) Look at other posts on this thread- parents have stated that their kids were accepted into those 7/8 schools and gone to St Andrews instead. I know multiple students in the same category myself.

2) I have personally worked with the top consulting firms (McKinsey, BCG, etc) they view St Andrews as equally prestigious to lower ivies. I even know partners at those firms who are St Andrews grads.

3) I have spoke to recruiters at investment banking firms in NYC and London. They are actively targeting St Andrews grads over US schools.

4) Look at the “graduate prospectus” category on the UK league tables, which are data based. The scores for St Andrews are about the same as Oxford/Cambridge/LSE. This suggests St Andrews graduates do very well.

I’m judging the school by academic caliber and graduate prospectus. Not laymen knowledge..

Not even close to the top “7 or 8” in the USA.

The person provided 4 fair points. What are your counter points? Seems like you may fall in the laymen category

DP. The counterpoint is that none of these firms actually view St Andrew’s this way. Points 2 and 3 are complete nonsense, especially the idea that US offices view it this way. London offices may recruit there but there are like 10 other UK universities they’ll also recruit from. 1 is anecdotal based on a handful of comments but the yields at those schools and where we know those kids go otherwise doesn’t add up.

Have you spoke to those firms? I have because I work directly with them.

You also did not address the graduate prospectus point, which is data based.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are the exact USA numbers according to OP for 2023:

Applications: 2218
Enrolled: 471
Yield: 33 percent

My math says that if these numbers are correct then 1413 were admitted, an admit rate of 63.7 percent. That’s safety school territory for the USA top 50.

English PP here. This is what infuriates some of us. Your american kids get a free pass. For our kids this is a tough admit. Two of my three children applied to St Andrews. One accepted and rejected at Oxford. The other accepted at Oxford and rejected at St Andrews. 3rd one didnt even try and is now in the US. But it funny that americans equate admission % to quality. As a previous poster mentioned, I guess that means Northeastern is better than Oxbridge….

I hear you. It's always the same story, isn't it? Money and privilege. The typical US student at St Andrews comes from money and has an elite private high school education. But they're not high achievers at their schools, don't have the academic chops for admission to the top privates in the US, and wouldn't be caught dead at a public school. So they turn down second tier privates in the US to attend St Andrews to save face.

Congrats on Northwestern btw. If it's any consolation, the vast majority of US students who end up at St Andrews wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting into Northwestern. So there's that at least.

You know this is BS right?

I have two kids who studied at Dartmouth and St Andrews. Dartmouth kid (PoliSci and History minor), St Andrews kid (IR and History double honors). Both kids had the exact same SAT score (1560). My St Andrews kids wanted to go away and turned down Dartmouth. Husband and I are Dartmouth grads. Oldest went there. Second one applied, got it and yet, decided no to attend as she wanted to go away.

So please, dont make generalizations based on what your view of “Typical” US St Andrews students are like. You might know a couple. We have come to know a few dozen over the years. Yes a large part fit the wealthy private school kids profile you indicated, but you are just s o wrong on the AVG American comment…anyhow.

After St Andrews she spent 4 yrs at LSE (graduate programs) is now teaching at a not to be named school in France.

So I say that a “typical” USA student at St Andrews is a rich private school kid, and you argue with that and say no, it’s not typical. It’s just a “large part.” Sounds like we’re splitting hairs here doesn’t it?

Ask your son who went to St Andrews how many of his American classmates turned down Ivy League offers to go there. And while you’re at it, ask him how many were not double legacies. What other Ivy League schools did your son get into besides your and your husband’s alma mater?

First of all, it is a SHE. My Dartmouth kids got in Penn, Notre Dame, Georgetown. My Dartmouth kid that went away, got into Cornell, Williams, Barnard.

And to continue the conversation. Her American friends were all over the place. Some turned down similar offers as my daughter (her best friend turned down Brown), others turned down a number of SLACS, others turned down schools in the t20-t40 range to be there. Your attitude is a little extreme.

But the large majority did not. Every Ivy League school has a yield of well over 50 percent. Like, well over. USA students accepted to an Ivy League school are highly likely to accept the offer, and when they don’t it’s because they choose Duke, Stanford, MIT etc. Not St Andrews. I’m not saying it never happens but it’s not routine. I’ll put it this way: there are way more USA kids at St Andrew’s who were rejected by the top ten or 15 USA universities than were accepted.

I respect St Andrew’s. But when it comes to the admissions process for USA students it’s just not that difficult.

Why is everyone caught up in the US admissions process and acceptance rate?

The key message here is that St Andrews is on the same level as the Top 10-15 schools in the US, even though it has a lower bar of entry. If anything this should encourage you to apply to St Andrews.

Here are the top 15 USA universities. Which of these is St Andrew’s on the “same level” as?

Princeton
MIT
Harvard
Stanford
Yale
Cal Tech
Duke
Johns Hopkins
Northwestern
Penn
Cornell
Chicago
Brown
Columbia
Dartmouth

I’ll wait.

The bottom 7/8. How do I know this?

1) Look at other posts on this thread- parents have stated that their kids were accepted into those 7/8 schools and gone to St Andrews instead. I know multiple students in the same category myself.

2) I have personally worked with the top consulting firms (McKinsey, BCG, etc) they view St Andrews as equally prestigious to lower ivies. I even know partners at those firms who are St Andrews grads.

3) I have spoke to recruiters at investment banking firms in NYC and London. They are actively targeting St Andrews grads over US schools.

4) Look at the “graduate prospectus” category on the UK league tables, which are data based. The scores for St Andrews are about the same as Oxford/Cambridge/LSE. This suggests St Andrews graduates do very well.

I’m judging the school by academic caliber and graduate prospectus. Not laymen knowledge..

Not even close to the top “7 or 8” in the USA.

The person provided 4 fair points. What are your counter points? Seems like you may fall in the laymen category

DP. The counterpoint is that none of these firms actually view St Andrew’s this way. Points 2 and 3 are complete nonsense, especially the idea that US offices view it this way. London offices may recruit there but there are like 10 other UK universities they’ll also recruit from. 1 is anecdotal based on a handful of comments but the yields at those schools and where we know those kids go otherwise doesn’t add up.

Have you spoke to those firms? I have because I work directly with them.

You also did not address the graduate prospectus point, which is data based.

They are gigantic firms. You haven’t spoken to but a fraction of the people who work at them. Your experience is no less anecdotal than anyone else’s. Plus one has to ask: what do you expect them to say when you tell them that your kid attends/attended? That your kid chose a lousy school? For all you know they’re just being polite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are the exact USA numbers according to OP for 2023:

Applications: 2218
Enrolled: 471
Yield: 33 percent

My math says that if these numbers are correct then 1413 were admitted, an admit rate of 63.7 percent. That’s safety school territory for the USA top 50.

English PP here. This is what infuriates some of us. Your american kids get a free pass. For our kids this is a tough admit. Two of my three children applied to St Andrews. One accepted and rejected at Oxford. The other accepted at Oxford and rejected at St Andrews. 3rd one didnt even try and is now in the US. But it funny that americans equate admission % to quality. As a previous poster mentioned, I guess that means Northeastern is better than Oxbridge….

I hear you. It's always the same story, isn't it? Money and privilege. The typical US student at St Andrews comes from money and has an elite private high school education. But they're not high achievers at their schools, don't have the academic chops for admission to the top privates in the US, and wouldn't be caught dead at a public school. So they turn down second tier privates in the US to attend St Andrews to save face.

Congrats on Northwestern btw. If it's any consolation, the vast majority of US students who end up at St Andrews wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting into Northwestern. So there's that at least.

You know this is BS right?

I have two kids who studied at Dartmouth and St Andrews. Dartmouth kid (PoliSci and History minor), St Andrews kid (IR and History double honors). Both kids had the exact same SAT score (1560). My St Andrews kids wanted to go away and turned down Dartmouth. Husband and I are Dartmouth grads. Oldest went there. Second one applied, got it and yet, decided no to attend as she wanted to go away.

So please, dont make generalizations based on what your view of “Typical” US St Andrews students are like. You might know a couple. We have come to know a few dozen over the years. Yes a large part fit the wealthy private school kids profile you indicated, but you are just s o wrong on the AVG American comment…anyhow.

After St Andrews she spent 4 yrs at LSE (graduate programs) is now teaching at a not to be named school in France.

So I say that a “typical” USA student at St Andrews is a rich private school kid, and you argue with that and say no, it’s not typical. It’s just a “large part.” Sounds like we’re splitting hairs here doesn’t it?

Ask your son who went to St Andrews how many of his American classmates turned down Ivy League offers to go there. And while you’re at it, ask him how many were not double legacies. What other Ivy League schools did your son get into besides your and your husband’s alma mater?

First of all, it is a SHE. My Dartmouth kids got in Penn, Notre Dame, Georgetown. My Dartmouth kid that went away, got into Cornell, Williams, Barnard.

And to continue the conversation. Her American friends were all over the place. Some turned down similar offers as my daughter (her best friend turned down Brown), others turned down a number of SLACS, others turned down schools in the t20-t40 range to be there. Your attitude is a little extreme.

But the large majority did not. Every Ivy League school has a yield of well over 50 percent. Like, well over. USA students accepted to an Ivy League school are highly likely to accept the offer, and when they don’t it’s because they choose Duke, Stanford, MIT etc. Not St Andrews. I’m not saying it never happens but it’s not routine. I’ll put it this way: there are way more USA kids at St Andrew’s who were rejected by the top ten or 15 USA universities than were accepted.

I respect St Andrew’s. But when it comes to the admissions process for USA students it’s just not that difficult.

Why is everyone caught up in the US admissions process and acceptance rate?

The key message here is that St Andrews is on the same level as the Top 10-15 schools in the US, even though it has a lower bar of entry. If anything this should encourage you to apply to St Andrews.

Lol wild comments like this are exactly why people are caught up on the US admissions process and acceptance rates.

OP justified their reasoning above. US acceptance rate does not equal to prestige/academic caliber for St Andrews. Getting into St Andrews as a UK student is actually more difficult than getting into some of the T10-15 US schools.

The admit rate for the top 10-15 US schools is in the mid to low single digits across the board. How much more selective can you get? Do less than 3 to 5 percent of UK applicants get admitted? Somehow I doubt it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are the exact USA numbers according to OP for 2023:

Applications: 2218
Enrolled: 471
Yield: 33 percent

My math says that if these numbers are correct then 1413 were admitted, an admit rate of 63.7 percent. That’s safety school territory for the USA top 50.

English PP here. This is what infuriates some of us. Your american kids get a free pass. For our kids this is a tough admit. Two of my three children applied to St Andrews. One accepted and rejected at Oxford. The other accepted at Oxford and rejected at St Andrews. 3rd one didnt even try and is now in the US. But it funny that americans equate admission % to quality. As a previous poster mentioned, I guess that means Northeastern is better than Oxbridge….

I hear you. It's always the same story, isn't it? Money and privilege. The typical US student at St Andrews comes from money and has an elite private high school education. But they're not high achievers at their schools, don't have the academic chops for admission to the top privates in the US, and wouldn't be caught dead at a public school. So they turn down second tier privates in the US to attend St Andrews to save face.

Congrats on Northwestern btw. If it's any consolation, the vast majority of US students who end up at St Andrews wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting into Northwestern. So there's that at least.

You know this is BS right?

I have two kids who studied at Dartmouth and St Andrews. Dartmouth kid (PoliSci and History minor), St Andrews kid (IR and History double honors). Both kids had the exact same SAT score (1560). My St Andrews kids wanted to go away and turned down Dartmouth. Husband and I are Dartmouth grads. Oldest went there. Second one applied, got it and yet, decided no to attend as she wanted to go away.

So please, dont make generalizations based on what your view of “Typical” US St Andrews students are like. You might know a couple. We have come to know a few dozen over the years. Yes a large part fit the wealthy private school kids profile you indicated, but you are just s o wrong on the AVG American comment…anyhow.

After St Andrews she spent 4 yrs at LSE (graduate programs) is now teaching at a not to be named school in France.

So I say that a “typical” USA student at St Andrews is a rich private school kid, and you argue with that and say no, it’s not typical. It’s just a “large part.” Sounds like we’re splitting hairs here doesn’t it?

Ask your son who went to St Andrews how many of his American classmates turned down Ivy League offers to go there. And while you’re at it, ask him how many were not double legacies. What other Ivy League schools did your son get into besides your and your husband’s alma mater?

First of all, it is a SHE. My Dartmouth kids got in Penn, Notre Dame, Georgetown. My Dartmouth kid that went away, got into Cornell, Williams, Barnard.

And to continue the conversation. Her American friends were all over the place. Some turned down similar offers as my daughter (her best friend turned down Brown), others turned down a number of SLACS, others turned down schools in the t20-t40 range to be there. Your attitude is a little extreme.

But the large majority did not. Every Ivy League school has a yield of well over 50 percent. Like, well over. USA students accepted to an Ivy League school are highly likely to accept the offer, and when they don’t it’s because they choose Duke, Stanford, MIT etc. Not St Andrews. I’m not saying it never happens but it’s not routine. I’ll put it this way: there are way more USA kids at St Andrew’s who were rejected by the top ten or 15 USA universities than were accepted.

I respect St Andrew’s. But when it comes to the admissions process for USA students it’s just not that difficult.

Why is everyone caught up in the US admissions process and acceptance rate?

The key message here is that St Andrews is on the same level as the Top 10-15 schools in the US, even though it has a lower bar of entry. If anything this should encourage you to apply to St Andrews.

Here are the top 15 USA universities. Which of these is St Andrew’s on the “same level” as?

Princeton
MIT
Harvard
Stanford
Yale
Cal Tech
Duke
Johns Hopkins
Northwestern
Penn
Cornell
Chicago
Brown
Columbia
Dartmouth

I’ll wait.

The bottom 7/8. How do I know this?

1) Look at other posts on this thread- parents have stated that their kids were accepted into those 7/8 schools and gone to St Andrews instead. I know multiple students in the same category myself.

2) I have personally worked with the top consulting firms (McKinsey, BCG, etc) they view St Andrews as equally prestigious to lower ivies. I even know partners at those firms who are St Andrews grads.

3) I have spoke to recruiters at investment banking firms in NYC and London. They are actively targeting St Andrews grads over US schools.

4) Look at the “graduate prospectus” category on the UK league tables, which are data based. The scores for St Andrews are about the same as Oxford/Cambridge/LSE. This suggests St Andrews graduates do very well.

I’m judging the school by academic caliber and graduate prospectus. Not laymen knowledge..

Not even close to the top “7 or 8” in the USA.

The person provided 4 fair points. What are your counter points? Seems like you may fall in the laymen category

DP. The counterpoint is that none of these firms actually view St Andrew’s this way. Points 2 and 3 are complete nonsense, especially the idea that US offices view it this way. London offices may recruit there but there are like 10 other UK universities they’ll also recruit from. 1 is anecdotal based on a handful of comments but the yields at those schools and where we know those kids go otherwise doesn’t add up.

Have you spoke to those firms? I have because I work directly with them.

You also did not address the graduate prospectus point, which is data based.

Yes, because I work on the buy side but worked in banking previously with an MBA from the UK. No one cares about St Andrews, sorry. You don’t have to take my word for it:

Mergers and Inquisitions IB target guide by region and level: https://mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-target-schools/ “Undergrad: Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, UCL, Warwick, and Imperial (U.K.)”

Mergers and Inquisitions London IB guide: https://mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-in-london/
“Within the U.K., most would say that the target universities include Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, UCL, Warwick, and Imperial.

There are also various “semi-targets” such as Durham, Bristol, Nottingham, St. Andrews, etc.”

eFinancialCareers: https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/target-universities-finance-uk
“A report from Trackr, formerly known as the Bristol Tracker, says there are only seven target universities for banks and financial services firms in the UK. They are Bocconi, Imperial, LSE, UCL, Cambridge, Oxford, and Warwick. All of the above, except for Bocconi (in Milan), are based in the UK.” StA is one of 13 (!) semi-targets.

Case Coach MBB hiring analysis, looked at 600 individuals hired at MBB in the UK from 2020-22. StA not in the top 10 of undergraduate hires: https://casecoach.com/b/what-type-of-candidates-make-it-to-mckinsey-bcg-and-bain-in-the-uk/

The league tables have their graduate prospect outcomes behind Durham and Bath, lol.

Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are the exact USA numbers according to OP for 2023:

Applications: 2218
Enrolled: 471
Yield: 33 percent

My math says that if these numbers are correct then 1413 were admitted, an admit rate of 63.7 percent. That’s safety school territory for the USA top 50.

English PP here. This is what infuriates some of us. Your american kids get a free pass. For our kids this is a tough admit. Two of my three children applied to St Andrews. One accepted and rejected at Oxford. The other accepted at Oxford and rejected at St Andrews. 3rd one didnt even try and is now in the US. But it funny that americans equate admission % to quality. As a previous poster mentioned, I guess that means Northeastern is better than Oxbridge….

I hear you. It's always the same story, isn't it? Money and privilege. The typical US student at St Andrews comes from money and has an elite private high school education. But they're not high achievers at their schools, don't have the academic chops for admission to the top privates in the US, and wouldn't be caught dead at a public school. So they turn down second tier privates in the US to attend St Andrews to save face.

Congrats on Northwestern btw. If it's any consolation, the vast majority of US students who end up at St Andrews wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting into Northwestern. So there's that at least.

You know this is BS right?

I have two kids who studied at Dartmouth and St Andrews. Dartmouth kid (PoliSci and History minor), St Andrews kid (IR and History double honors). Both kids had the exact same SAT score (1560). My St Andrews kids wanted to go away and turned down Dartmouth. Husband and I are Dartmouth grads. Oldest went there. Second one applied, got it and yet, decided no to attend as she wanted to go away.

So please, dont make generalizations based on what your view of “Typical” US St Andrews students are like. You might know a couple. We have come to know a few dozen over the years. Yes a large part fit the wealthy private school kids profile you indicated, but you are just s o wrong on the AVG American comment…anyhow.

After St Andrews she spent 4 yrs at LSE (graduate programs) is now teaching at a not to be named school in France.

So I say that a “typical” USA student at St Andrews is a rich private school kid, and you argue with that and say no, it’s not typical. It’s just a “large part.” Sounds like we’re splitting hairs here doesn’t it?

Ask your son who went to St Andrews how many of his American classmates turned down Ivy League offers to go there. And while you’re at it, ask him how many were not double legacies. What other Ivy League schools did your son get into besides your and your husband’s alma mater?

First of all, it is a SHE. My Dartmouth kids got in Penn, Notre Dame, Georgetown. My Dartmouth kid that went away, got into Cornell, Williams, Barnard.

And to continue the conversation. Her American friends were all over the place. Some turned down similar offers as my daughter (her best friend turned down Brown), others turned down a number of SLACS, others turned down schools in the t20-t40 range to be there. Your attitude is a little extreme.

But the large majority did not. Every Ivy League school has a yield of well over 50 percent. Like, well over. USA students accepted to an Ivy League school are highly likely to accept the offer, and when they don’t it’s because they choose Duke, Stanford, MIT etc. Not St Andrews. I’m not saying it never happens but it’s not routine. I’ll put it this way: there are way more USA kids at St Andrew’s who were rejected by the top ten or 15 USA universities than were accepted.

I respect St Andrew’s. But when it comes to the admissions process for USA students it’s just not that difficult.

Why is everyone caught up in the US admissions process and acceptance rate?

The key message here is that St Andrews is on the same level as the Top 10-15 schools in the US, even though it has a lower bar of entry. If anything this should encourage you to apply to St Andrews.

Here are the top 15 USA universities. Which of these is St Andrew’s on the “same level” as?

Princeton
MIT
Harvard
Stanford
Yale
Cal Tech
Duke
Johns Hopkins
Northwestern
Penn
Cornell
Chicago
Brown
Columbia
Dartmouth

I’ll wait.

The bottom 7/8. How do I know this?

1) Look at other posts on this thread- parents have stated that their kids were accepted into those 7/8 schools and gone to St Andrews instead. I know multiple students in the same category myself.

2) I have personally worked with the top consulting firms (McKinsey, BCG, etc) they view St Andrews as equally prestigious to lower ivies. I even know partners at those firms who are St Andrews grads.

3) I have spoke to recruiters at investment banking firms in NYC and London. They are actively targeting St Andrews grads over US schools.

4) Look at the “graduate prospectus” category on the UK league tables, which are data based. The scores for St Andrews are about the same as Oxford/Cambridge/LSE. This suggests St Andrews graduates do very well.

I’m judging the school by academic caliber and graduate prospectus. Not laymen knowledge..

Not even close to the top “7 or 8” in the USA.

The person provided 4 fair points. What are your counter points? Seems like you may fall in the laymen category

DP. The counterpoint is that none of these firms actually view St Andrew’s this way. Points 2 and 3 are complete nonsense, especially the idea that US offices view it this way. London offices may recruit there but there are like 10 other UK universities they’ll also recruit from. 1 is anecdotal based on a handful of comments but the yields at those schools and where we know those kids go otherwise doesn’t add up.

Have you spoke to those firms? I have because I work directly with them.

You also did not address the graduate prospectus point, which is data based.

Yes, because I work on the buy side but worked in banking previously with an MBA from the UK. No one cares about St Andrews, sorry. You don’t have to take my word for it:

Mergers and Inquisitions IB target guide by region and level: https://mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-target-schools/ “Undergrad: Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, UCL, Warwick, and Imperial (U.K.)”

Mergers and Inquisitions London IB guide: https://mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-in-london/
“Within the U.K., most would say that the target universities include Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, UCL, Warwick, and Imperial.

There are also various “semi-targets” such as Durham, Bristol, Nottingham, St. Andrews, etc.”

eFinancialCareers: https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/target-universities-finance-uk
“A report from Trackr, formerly known as the Bristol Tracker, says there are only seven target universities for banks and financial services firms in the UK. They are Bocconi, Imperial, LSE, UCL, Cambridge, Oxford, and Warwick. All of the above, except for Bocconi (in Milan), are based in the UK.” StA is one of 13 (!) semi-targets.

Case Coach MBB hiring analysis, looked at 600 individuals hired at MBB in the UK from 2020-22. StA not in the top 10 of undergraduate hires: https://casecoach.com/b/what-type-of-candidates-make-it-to-mckinsey-bcg-and-bain-in-the-uk/

The league tables have their graduate prospect outcomes behind Durham and Bath, lol.

Sorry.

Thanks for sharing this reality check.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are the exact USA numbers according to OP for 2023:

Applications: 2218
Enrolled: 471
Yield: 33 percent

My math says that if these numbers are correct then 1413 were admitted, an admit rate of 63.7 percent. That’s safety school territory for the USA top 50.

English PP here. This is what infuriates some of us. Your american kids get a free pass. For our kids this is a tough admit. Two of my three children applied to St Andrews. One accepted and rejected at Oxford. The other accepted at Oxford and rejected at St Andrews. 3rd one didnt even try and is now in the US. But it funny that americans equate admission % to quality. As a previous poster mentioned, I guess that means Northeastern is better than Oxbridge….

I hear you. It's always the same story, isn't it? Money and privilege. The typical US student at St Andrews comes from money and has an elite private high school education. But they're not high achievers at their schools, don't have the academic chops for admission to the top privates in the US, and wouldn't be caught dead at a public school. So they turn down second tier privates in the US to attend St Andrews to save face.

Congrats on Northwestern btw. If it's any consolation, the vast majority of US students who end up at St Andrews wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting into Northwestern. So there's that at least.

You know this is BS right?

I have two kids who studied at Dartmouth and St Andrews. Dartmouth kid (PoliSci and History minor), St Andrews kid (IR and History double honors). Both kids had the exact same SAT score (1560). My St Andrews kids wanted to go away and turned down Dartmouth. Husband and I are Dartmouth grads. Oldest went there. Second one applied, got it and yet, decided no to attend as she wanted to go away.

So please, dont make generalizations based on what your view of “Typical” US St Andrews students are like. You might know a couple. We have come to know a few dozen over the years. Yes a large part fit the wealthy private school kids profile you indicated, but you are just s o wrong on the AVG American comment…anyhow.

After St Andrews she spent 4 yrs at LSE (graduate programs) is now teaching at a not to be named school in France.

So I say that a “typical” USA student at St Andrews is a rich private school kid, and you argue with that and say no, it’s not typical. It’s just a “large part.” Sounds like we’re splitting hairs here doesn’t it?

Ask your son who went to St Andrews how many of his American classmates turned down Ivy League offers to go there. And while you’re at it, ask him how many were not double legacies. What other Ivy League schools did your son get into besides your and your husband’s alma mater?

First of all, it is a SHE. My Dartmouth kids got in Penn, Notre Dame, Georgetown. My Dartmouth kid that went away, got into Cornell, Williams, Barnard.

And to continue the conversation. Her American friends were all over the place. Some turned down similar offers as my daughter (her best friend turned down Brown), others turned down a number of SLACS, others turned down schools in the t20-t40 range to be there. Your attitude is a little extreme.

But the large majority did not. Every Ivy League school has a yield of well over 50 percent. Like, well over. USA students accepted to an Ivy League school are highly likely to accept the offer, and when they don’t it’s because they choose Duke, Stanford, MIT etc. Not St Andrews. I’m not saying it never happens but it’s not routine. I’ll put it this way: there are way more USA kids at St Andrew’s who were rejected by the top ten or 15 USA universities than were accepted.

I respect St Andrew’s. But when it comes to the admissions process for USA students it’s just not that difficult.

Why is everyone caught up in the US admissions process and acceptance rate?

The key message here is that St Andrews is on the same level as the Top 10-15 schools in the US, even though it has a lower bar of entry. If anything this should encourage you to apply to St Andrews.

Here are the top 15 USA universities. Which of these is St Andrew’s on the “same level” as?

Princeton
MIT
Harvard
Stanford
Yale
Cal Tech
Duke
Johns Hopkins
Northwestern
Penn
Cornell
Chicago
Brown
Columbia
Dartmouth

I’ll wait.

The bottom 7/8. How do I know this?

1) Look at other posts on this thread- parents have stated that their kids were accepted into those 7/8 schools and gone to St Andrews instead. I know multiple students in the same category myself.

2) I have personally worked with the top consulting firms (McKinsey, BCG, etc) they view St Andrews as equally prestigious to lower ivies. I even know partners at those firms who are St Andrews grads.

3) I have spoke to recruiters at investment banking firms in NYC and London. They are actively targeting St Andrews grads over US schools.

4) Look at the “graduate prospectus” category on the UK league tables, which are data based. The scores for St Andrews are about the same as Oxford/Cambridge/LSE. This suggests St Andrews graduates do very well.

I’m judging the school by academic caliber and graduate prospectus. Not laymen knowledge..

Not even close to the top “7 or 8” in the USA.

The person provided 4 fair points. What are your counter points? Seems like you may fall in the laymen category

DP. The counterpoint is that none of these firms actually view St Andrew’s this way. Points 2 and 3 are complete nonsense, especially the idea that US offices view it this way. London offices may recruit there but there are like 10 other UK universities they’ll also recruit from. 1 is anecdotal based on a handful of comments but the yields at those schools and where we know those kids go otherwise doesn’t add up.

Have you spoke to those firms? I have because I work directly with them.

You also did not address the graduate prospectus point, which is data based.

Yes, because I work on the buy side but worked in banking previously with an MBA from the UK. No one cares about St Andrews, sorry. You don’t have to take my word for it:

Mergers and Inquisitions IB target guide by region and level: https://mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-target-schools/ “Undergrad: Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, UCL, Warwick, and Imperial (U.K.)”

Mergers and Inquisitions London IB guide: https://mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-in-london/
“Within the U.K., most would say that the target universities include Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, UCL, Warwick, and Imperial.

There are also various “semi-targets” such as Durham, Bristol, Nottingham, St. Andrews, etc.”

eFinancialCareers: https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/target-universities-finance-uk
“A report from Trackr, formerly known as the Bristol Tracker, says there are only seven target universities for banks and financial services firms in the UK. They are Bocconi, Imperial, LSE, UCL, Cambridge, Oxford, and Warwick. All of the above, except for Bocconi (in Milan), are based in the UK.” StA is one of 13 (!) semi-targets.

Case Coach MBB hiring analysis, looked at 600 individuals hired at MBB in the UK from 2020-22. StA not in the top 10 of undergraduate hires: https://casecoach.com/b/what-type-of-candidates-make-it-to-mckinsey-bcg-and-bain-in-the-uk/

The league tables have their graduate prospect outcomes behind Durham and Bath, lol.

Sorry.

Your analysis and sources have a major flaw. They are looking at total count coming from each school. St Andrews has a significantly smaller undergraduate population. Of course the total count going to those firms is lower. I agree historically St Andrews was viewed as more of a semi-target but now it’s considered target.

St Andrews received 87% score on Graduate Prospectus. Oxford and Cambridge both received a 90% only slightly lower.

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Anonymous wrote:These are the exact USA numbers according to OP for 2023:

Applications: 2218
Enrolled: 471
Yield: 33 percent

My math says that if these numbers are correct then 1413 were admitted, an admit rate of 63.7 percent. That’s safety school territory for the USA top 50.

English PP here. This is what infuriates some of us. Your american kids get a free pass. For our kids this is a tough admit. Two of my three children applied to St Andrews. One accepted and rejected at Oxford. The other accepted at Oxford and rejected at St Andrews. 3rd one didnt even try and is now in the US. But it funny that americans equate admission % to quality. As a previous poster mentioned, I guess that means Northeastern is better than Oxbridge….

I hear you. It's always the same story, isn't it? Money and privilege. The typical US student at St Andrews comes from money and has an elite private high school education. But they're not high achievers at their schools, don't have the academic chops for admission to the top privates in the US, and wouldn't be caught dead at a public school. So they turn down second tier privates in the US to attend St Andrews to save face.

Congrats on Northwestern btw. If it's any consolation, the vast majority of US students who end up at St Andrews wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting into Northwestern. So there's that at least.

You know this is BS right?

I have two kids who studied at Dartmouth and St Andrews. Dartmouth kid (PoliSci and History minor), St Andrews kid (IR and History double honors). Both kids had the exact same SAT score (1560). My St Andrews kids wanted to go away and turned down Dartmouth. Husband and I are Dartmouth grads. Oldest went there. Second one applied, got it and yet, decided no to attend as she wanted to go away.

So please, dont make generalizations based on what your view of “Typical” US St Andrews students are like. You might know a couple. We have come to know a few dozen over the years. Yes a large part fit the wealthy private school kids profile you indicated, but you are just s o wrong on the AVG American comment…anyhow.

After St Andrews she spent 4 yrs at LSE (graduate programs) is now teaching at a not to be named school in France.

So I say that a “typical” USA student at St Andrews is a rich private school kid, and you argue with that and say no, it’s not typical. It’s just a “large part.” Sounds like we’re splitting hairs here doesn’t it?

Ask your son who went to St Andrews how many of his American classmates turned down Ivy League offers to go there. And while you’re at it, ask him how many were not double legacies. What other Ivy League schools did your son get into besides your and your husband’s alma mater?

First of all, it is a SHE. My Dartmouth kids got in Penn, Notre Dame, Georgetown. My Dartmouth kid that went away, got into Cornell, Williams, Barnard.

And to continue the conversation. Her American friends were all over the place. Some turned down similar offers as my daughter (her best friend turned down Brown), others turned down a number of SLACS, others turned down schools in the t20-t40 range to be there. Your attitude is a little extreme.

But the large majority did not. Every Ivy League school has a yield of well over 50 percent. Like, well over. USA students accepted to an Ivy League school are highly likely to accept the offer, and when they don’t it’s because they choose Duke, Stanford, MIT etc. Not St Andrews. I’m not saying it never happens but it’s not routine. I’ll put it this way: there are way more USA kids at St Andrew’s who were rejected by the top ten or 15 USA universities than were accepted.

I respect St Andrew’s. But when it comes to the admissions process for USA students it’s just not that difficult.

Why is everyone caught up in the US admissions process and acceptance rate?

The key message here is that St Andrews is on the same level as the Top 10-15 schools in the US, even though it has a lower bar of entry. If anything this should encourage you to apply to St Andrews.

Here are the top 15 USA universities. Which of these is St Andrew’s on the “same level” as?

Princeton
MIT
Harvard
Stanford
Yale
Cal Tech
Duke
Johns Hopkins
Northwestern
Penn
Cornell
Chicago
Brown
Columbia
Dartmouth

I’ll wait.

The bottom 7/8. How do I know this?

1) Look at other posts on this thread- parents have stated that their kids were accepted into those 7/8 schools and gone to St Andrews instead. I know multiple students in the same category myself.

2) I have personally worked with the top consulting firms (McKinsey, BCG, etc) they view St Andrews as equally prestigious to lower ivies. I even know partners at those firms who are St Andrews grads.

3) I have spoke to recruiters at investment banking firms in NYC and London. They are actively targeting St Andrews grads over US schools.

4) Look at the “graduate prospectus” category on the UK league tables, which are data based. The scores for St Andrews are about the same as Oxford/Cambridge/LSE. This suggests St Andrews graduates do very well.

I’m judging the school by academic caliber and graduate prospectus. Not laymen knowledge..

Not even close to the top “7 or 8” in the USA.

The person provided 4 fair points. What are your counter points? Seems like you may fall in the laymen category

DP. The counterpoint is that none of these firms actually view St Andrew’s this way. Points 2 and 3 are complete nonsense, especially the idea that US offices view it this way. London offices may recruit there but there are like 10 other UK universities they’ll also recruit from. 1 is anecdotal based on a handful of comments but the yields at those schools and where we know those kids go otherwise doesn’t add up.

Have you spoke to those firms? I have because I work directly with them.

You also did not address the graduate prospectus point, which is data based.

Yes, because I work on the buy side but worked in banking previously with an MBA from the UK. No one cares about St Andrews, sorry. You don’t have to take my word for it:

Mergers and Inquisitions IB target guide by region and level: https://mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-target-schools/ “Undergrad: Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, UCL, Warwick, and Imperial (U.K.)”

Mergers and Inquisitions London IB guide: https://mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-in-london/
“Within the U.K., most would say that the target universities include Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, UCL, Warwick, and Imperial.

There are also various “semi-targets” such as Durham, Bristol, Nottingham, St. Andrews, etc.”

eFinancialCareers: https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/target-universities-finance-uk
“A report from Trackr, formerly known as the Bristol Tracker, says there are only seven target universities for banks and financial services firms in the UK. They are Bocconi, Imperial, LSE, UCL, Cambridge, Oxford, and Warwick. All of the above, except for Bocconi (in Milan), are based in the UK.” StA is one of 13 (!) semi-targets.

Case Coach MBB hiring analysis, looked at 600 individuals hired at MBB in the UK from 2020-22. StA not in the top 10 of undergraduate hires: https://casecoach.com/b/what-type-of-candidates-make-it-to-mckinsey-bcg-and-bain-in-the-uk/

The league tables have their graduate prospect outcomes behind Durham and Bath, lol.

Sorry.

Your analysis and sources have a major flaw. They are looking at total count coming from each school. St Andrews has a significantly smaller undergraduate population. Of course the total count going to those firms is lower. I agree historically St Andrews was viewed as more of a semi-target but now it’s considered target.

St Andrews received 87% score on Graduate Prospectus. Oxford and Cambridge both received a 90% only slightly lower.

No, the only one that looks at total count is CaseCoach, and even then St Andrews is larger than LSE and only modestly smaller than Cambridge and Imperial, both of which are quite high up on the list. In terms of total numbers, King’s, Edinburgh, and Bristol account for about 5 total hires each. If St Andrews was actually placing there in any meaningful way, it would be on the list too.

The other sources have nothing to do with counts.

And again, on the graduate prospects—which only measures whether kids get college graduate-level jobs, not where—they are 7th in the UK, behind Bath and Durham. It’s not a bad result by any means but it isn’t evidence of US T15 equivalency.

[Anonymous]

Glad I got my popcorn early for this thread. Some of these posts are just amasing.

[Anonymous]

Not sure how this thread went from being an informative thread to a genital measuring contest. Oh my god. If you dont like St Andrews, go away. Why waste time here.
This all started when naysayers said NOBODY with a top US admission would go to St Andrews only to be faced with SEVERAL examples that this stmt was not necessarily true.

From there this went off rails….and destroyed what has been a nice informative thread for those considering St Andrews….OMG…DCUMERS are the worst.