When are Herndon Middle and Herndon High going to get a break?!??

[Anonymous]

Carson is 64% AAP. That's why it is so skewed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Carson is 64% AAP. That's why it is so skewed.

According to the Capacity Dashboard, Carson is 49% AAP. The 64% refers to the percentage of kids receiving any LLIV services, not the percentage in the full-time AAP program.

But, yes, Carson is the biggest AAP mega-center of any middle school in the county. Those kids come from areas that feed into multiple high schools and they overwhelmingly are not FARMS kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This doesn't answer all your questions but when McNair was overcrowded, the decision was made to move these neighborhoods to Herndon ES. HES tanked immediately and remains one of the lowest performing schools in the state. The F/R rate went from 25ish to today's 64%. Is this a coincidence or would you agree that the low performance has something to do with the poverty? Money has been thrown at HES for years. It's not the solution. Mc Nair used to be Title 1 before the boundary change. Now they're at less than 20% F/R. Carson MS is at 10%. Why can't boundaries be changed so that impoverished students are spread across more schools? The Herndon pyramid has most of the poverty in this area and if others help, more students can be reached.

McNair is an AAP center. This contributes to the lower FARMS.

The first thing FCPS could do is to balance schools is to eliminate the huge AAP centers. This is pulling higher achieving kids and higher SES from some schools. Original centers were GT and were geared to the true outliers. It was totally objective and based exclusively on test scores.
But, now that people are putting their K kids in test prep classes for IQ tests, the results are not valid. IQ tests are not supposed to be achievement tests. They are based on the idea that the kids are dealing with unfamiliar material.

I am really not in favor of GT centers either. But, they are more easily justifiable than these AAP centers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This doesn't answer all your questions but when McNair was overcrowded, the decision was made to move these neighborhoods to Herndon ES. HES tanked immediately and remains one of the lowest performing schools in the state. The F/R rate went from 25ish to today's 64%. Is this a coincidence or would you agree that the low performance has something to do with the poverty? Money has been thrown at HES for years. It's not the solution. Mc Nair used to be Title 1 before the boundary change. Now they're at less than 20% F/R. Carson MS is at 10%. Why can't boundaries be changed so that impoverished students are spread across more schools? The Herndon pyramid has most of the poverty in this area and if others help, more students can be reached.

Why HES? Isn't Hutchison between HES and McNair? Seems like they should've shifted McNair kids into Hutchison, and Hutchison to ... Clearview or Dranesville(?), and Clearview / Dranesville kids to HES as necessary. Maybe McNair isn't where I think it is?

When did that shift happen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This doesn't answer all your questions but when McNair was overcrowded, the decision was made to move these neighborhoods to Herndon ES. HES tanked immediately and remains one of the lowest performing schools in the state. The F/R rate went from 25ish to today's 64%. Is this a coincidence or would you agree that the low performance has something to do with the poverty? Money has been thrown at HES for years. It's not the solution. Mc Nair used to be Title 1 before the boundary change. Now they're at less than 20% F/R. Carson MS is at 10%. Why can't boundaries be changed so that impoverished students are spread across more schools? The Herndon pyramid has most of the poverty in this area and if others help, more students can be reached.

Why HES? Isn't Hutchison between HES and McNair? Seems like they should've shifted McNair kids into Hutchison, and Hutchison to ... Clearview or Dranesville(?), and Clearview / Dranesville kids to HES as necessary. Maybe McNair isn't where I think it is?

When did that shift happen?

McNair is an AAP center--it pulls kids from other schools and that is one reason the demos are positive on the FARMS.

And, PP has a point. There is also Hutchison and Coates which also have high FARMS. You cannot possibly spread all this poverty out. You have Hutchison, McNair, Coates, and Herndon--all within very close proximity. And then, you have Clearview and Dranesville. None of these schools is affluent.

The answer: teach the kids where they are. The biggest problem with educating poor kids? The family environment. You don't fix that by putting kids on a bus. There needs to be a big push to help the parents learn how to help their kids. One thing that is a common denominator with rich and poor parents: they love their kids. The problem is that some parents don't understand how important it is to read to their kids, talk to their kids in a positive manner, and help their kids learn about the world around them. This is best done by getting the parents into the schools as much as possible--and that is not going to happen more easily if the school is nearby.

How do I know this? Experience. It did not work then and it won't work now.

[Anonymous]

The answer: teach the kids where they are. The biggest problem with educating poor kids? The family environment. You don't fix that by putting kids on a bus. There needs to be a big push to help the parents learn how to help their kids. One thing that is a common denominator with rich and poor parents: they love their kids. The problem is that some parents don't understand how important it is to read to their kids, talk to their kids in a positive manner, and help their kids learn about the world around them. This is best done by getting the parents into the schools as much as possible--and that is not going to happen more easily if the school is nearby.

PP here--edit--is going to happen more easily if the school is nearby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This doesn't answer all your questions but when McNair was overcrowded, the decision was made to move these neighborhoods to Herndon ES. HES tanked immediately and remains one of the lowest performing schools in the state. The F/R rate went from 25ish to today's 64%. Is this a coincidence or would you agree that the low performance has something to do with the poverty? Money has been thrown at HES for years. It's not the solution. Mc Nair used to be Title 1 before the boundary change. Now they're at less than 20% F/R. Carson MS is at 10%. Why can't boundaries be changed so that impoverished students are spread across more schools? The Herndon pyramid has most of the poverty in this area and if others help, more students can be reached.

McNair is an AAP center. This contributes to the lower FARMS.

The first thing FCPS could do is to balance schools is to eliminate the huge AAP centers. This is pulling higher achieving kids and higher SES from some schools. Original centers were GT and were geared to the true outliers. It was totally objective and based exclusively on test scores.
But, now that people are putting their K kids in test prep classes for IQ tests, the results are not valid. IQ tests are not supposed to be achievement tests. They are based on the idea that the kids are dealing with unfamiliar material.

I am really not in favor of GT centers either. But, they are more easily justifiable than these AAP centers.

The answer to your question is that the county is scared that, if it unwinds the AAP model, Asians will leave Fairfax and the overall test scores and property values will decline. Whether AAP programs skew the enrollments at some schools in Herndon is not that important to them.

[Anonymous]

Don’t you get it: bussing is already happening but since it’s the smart, white kids from the richest parts of Herndon and Reston (and yes even Western GF!) being bussed 45 minutes to a rich, white school, somehow THAT is okay. Give Herndon a fair shot by forcing those rich, smart, white kids to “get off the bus” and go to their neighborhood school!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t you get it: bussing is already happening but since it’s the smart, white kids from the richest parts of Herndon and Reston (and yes even Western GF!) being bussed 45 minutes to a rich, white school, somehow THAT is okay. Give Herndon a fair shot by forcing those rich, smart, white kids to “get off the bus” and go to their neighborhood school!

[phone]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t you get it: bussing is already happening but since it’s the smart, white kids from the richest parts of Herndon and Reston (and yes even Western GF!) being bussed 45 minutes to a rich, white school, somehow THAT is okay. Give Herndon a fair shot by forcing those rich, smart, white kids to “get off the bus” and go to their neighborhood school!

Yessssss!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This doesn't answer all your questions but when McNair was overcrowded, the decision was made to move these neighborhoods to Herndon ES. HES tanked immediately and remains one of the lowest performing schools in the state. The F/R rate went from 25ish to today's 64%. Is this a coincidence or would you agree that the low performance has something to do with the poverty? Money has been thrown at HES for years. It's not the solution. Mc Nair used to be Title 1 before the boundary change. Now they're at less than 20% F/R. Carson MS is at 10%. Why can't boundaries be changed so that impoverished students are spread across more schools? The Herndon pyramid has most of the poverty in this area and if others help, more students can be reached.

McNair is an AAP center. This contributes to the lower FARMS.

The first thing FCPS could do is to balance schools is to eliminate the huge AAP centers. This is pulling higher achieving kids and higher SES from some schools. Original centers were GT and were geared to the true outliers. It was totally objective and based exclusively on test scores.
But, now that people are putting their K kids in test prep classes for IQ tests, the results are not valid. IQ tests are not supposed to be achievement tests. They are based on the idea that the kids are dealing with unfamiliar material.

I am really not in favor of GT centers either. But, they are more easily justifiable than these AAP centers.

The answer to your question is that the county is scared that, if it unwinds the AAP model, Asians will leave Fairfax and the overall test scores and property values will decline. Whether AAP programs skew the enrollments at some schools in Herndon is not that important to them.

NP. There's a lot of truth to this. I suspect there's also a fear that if AAP is completely restored to the base schools, a lot more schools would become Title I overnight and a lot of upper middle and upper SES families would relocate to schools that had big-in house LLIV programs, or just go private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t you get it: bussing is already happening but since it’s the smart, white kids from the richest parts of Herndon and Reston (and yes even Western GF!) being bussed 45 minutes to a rich, white school, somehow THAT is okay. Give Herndon a fair shot by forcing those rich, smart, white kids to “get off the bus” and go to their neighborhood school!

That is absolutely not the same thing at all. That is transportation. We've been through this before. There is no other logical way to populate Langley--although, some McLean kids should probably be sent there. I don't understand why that is not happening.

Busing is done to "balance" schools. It didn't work in the past and it won't work now.
Why? Busing poor kids out of their neighborhoods is not effective. It makes it far more difficult for the families who are already struggling.

This is a housing issue. Not a school issue. But, relax, when the Silver Line is built, Herndon will change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t you get it: bussing is already happening but since it’s the smart, white kids from the richest parts of Herndon and Reston (and yes even Western GF!) being bussed 45 minutes to a rich, white school, somehow THAT is okay. Give Herndon a fair shot by forcing those rich, smart, white kids to “get off the bus” and go to their neighborhood school!

What is really being communicated with the insistence that the mere presence of rich white kids is required to give Herndon a shot? A shot at what?

Are the rich white kids going to ride in on white horses and save those FARMS kids from....something?

Herndon has a better student/teacher ratio than Langley. Herndon has a better student/counselor ratio than Langley.
Herndon teachers get paid on average, 3k more per year than Langley teachers.
Herndon is currently undergoing a nice renovation which will put it on par with Langley.

(All the above according to greatschools--except the renovation part)

Someone said elsewhere that Herndon gets significantly more per pupil than Langley. I haven't yet found a source for that but with lower ratios and higher paid teachers it makes sense.

What can rich white kids do for Herndon but increased the number of rich white kids?

Or is that the point. That a school is crappy without enough white people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t you get it: bussing is already happening but since it’s the smart, white kids from the richest parts of Herndon and Reston (and yes even Western GF!) being bussed 45 minutes to a rich, white school, somehow THAT is okay. Give Herndon a fair shot by forcing those rich, smart, white kids to “get off the bus” and go to their neighborhood school!

What is really being communicated with the insistence that the mere presence of rich white kids is required to give Herndon a shot? A shot at what?

Are the rich white kids going to ride in on white horses and save those FARMS kids from....something?

Herndon has a better student/teacher ratio than Langley. Herndon has a better student/counselor ratio than Langley.
Herndon teachers get paid on average, 3k more per year than Langley teachers.
Herndon is currently undergoing a nice renovation which will put it on par with Langley.

(All the above according to greatschools--except the renovation part)

Someone said elsewhere that Herndon gets significantly more per pupil than Langley. I haven't yet found a source for that but with lower ratios and higher paid teachers it makes sense.

What can rich white kids do for Herndon but increased the number of rich white kids?

Or is that the point. That a school is crappy without enough white people?

Good points here, 2nd PP.

1st PP is apparently frustrated because her child is in the boundary for a school of high FARMS. I'm not sure if she is white or not. But, she certainly seems to resent the kids that go to Langley. I'm not sure if there is more than one posting that, but someone keeps insisting on sending Forestville kids to Herndon and will not accept that the location and logistics justify that boundary. I understand the frustration. But, there is certainly a cohort of high achievers at Herndon High. It is large enough to support both. Maybe, she has a SIL or someone who brags about Langley and is ticked off because of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t you get it: bussing is already happening but since it’s the smart, white kids from the richest parts of Herndon and Reston (and yes even Western GF!) being bussed 45 minutes to a rich, white school, somehow THAT is okay. Give Herndon a fair shot by forcing those rich, smart, white kids to “get off the bus” and go to their neighborhood school!

What is really being communicated with the insistence that the mere presence of rich white kids is required to give Herndon a shot? A shot at what?

Are the rich white kids going to ride in on white horses and save those FARMS kids from....something?

Herndon has a better student/teacher ratio than Langley. Herndon has a better student/counselor ratio than Langley.
Herndon teachers get paid on average, 3k more per year than Langley teachers.
Herndon is currently undergoing a nice renovation which will put it on par with Langley.

(All the above according to greatschools--except the renovation part)

Someone said elsewhere that Herndon gets significantly more per pupil than Langley. I haven't yet found a source for that but with lower ratios and higher paid teachers it makes sense.

What can rich white kids do for Herndon but increased the number of rich white kids?

Or is that the point. That a school is crappy without enough white people?

DP. The posts are getting redundant but it’s been obvious for a while that some in Herndon are angry that the government (state, local, and federal) has allowed so many poor Hispanics to settle in Herndon and that they think more would be done about it if there were more upper-income white families who were dealing with the consequences. The higher-income kids are only “special” if they are attached to parents who will raise a fuss.

As it turns out, those parents will raise a fuss, but it’s a fuss to stay out of the Herndon schools.