When are Herndon Middle and Herndon High going to get a break?!??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As was discussed a year or two ago based on some study (cant find the thread now), once the student population reaches a certain level of FARMS kids, the whole school suffers in terms of academic performance. Staying below that threshold results in raising "at risk" student scores without bringing down the scores of other students.

We are zoned for HES, Clearview (for AAP), HMS, and HHS. We have a great community, but as a recent PP pointed out, kids who get bussed from far off reaches of the school boundaries, don't mix much outside of school, and consequently, not as much inside school. Kids tend to socialize more with the kids from their neighborhoods. I see this at the AAP center and with the kids at HES grandfathered into the language immersion programs (French which ended with the graduating class & Spanish).

Plenty of good things happen in Herndon. It isn't perfect, and I see plenty of need for improvement, but it isn't the pit that some people make it out to be.

I seriously question some of these studies. Of course, teachers can give more time to "at risk" students if there are fewer of them, but, what is the remedy. To separate the neighborhoods street by street? When you have a large neighborhood of very poor kids, I guess the remedy would be to send A St. to X school, B street to Y School and C Street to Z school. That is unmanageable. I posted earlier that I taught in a school that was bused. It just does not work. And, it does not achieve "equity." It just enables the system to hide the problems instead of addressing them.

This is a problem that goes far beyond the schools. The education system should do its best with what it is given, but sprinkling the problem throughout is not going to help anyone.

Smart kids from good families are going to do fine wherever they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

As was discussed a year or two ago based on some study (cant find the thread now), once the student population reaches a certain level of FARMS kids, the whole school suffers in terms of academic performance. Staying below that threshold results in raising "at risk" student scores without bringing down the scores of other students.

Uh huh. And even accepting that questionable premise, what are you going to do when you run out of white kids who are needed to keep the proportion of non-FARMS kids above the magic level? That day is coming - and soon, thanks to the crazed Democrat insistence on open borders.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and a former FARMS kid who went to a popular DCUM university.

Uhhh ... you think white kids are the only ones doing well academically???? Hahaha!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How is sending losers to Carson and Langley going to help HMS/HHS? All that will do is make Carson and Langley worse.

Wow. I am a conservative who believes strongly that we need to control our borders, but this is way out of line. These are children. They may be very poor children, but they are not "losers."

They are here, and we must--and should--educate them. Hopefully, they will do well and have a better life. That does not mean that I think that more should come. But, these choices are made by adults, not children.

However, I do agree that we should not start busing groups of children around just to achieve "equity." It doesn't work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

As was discussed a year or two ago based on some study (cant find the thread now), once the student population reaches a certain level of FARMS kids, the whole school suffers in terms of academic performance. Staying below that threshold results in raising "at risk" student scores without bringing down the scores of other students.

Uh huh. And even accepting that questionable premise, what are you going to do when you run out of white kids who are needed to keep the proportion of non-FARMS kids above the magic level? That day is coming - and soon, thanks to the crazed Democrat insistence on open borders.

Of course, there are also the crazed Republicans, who allowed developers to plow Loudoun and build new subdivisions now inhabited by whites and Asians who used to live, or otherwise might as have lived, in Herndon. They aren’t coming back any time soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As was discussed a year or two ago based on some study (cant find the thread now), once the student population reaches a certain level of FARMS kids, the whole school suffers in terms of academic performance. Staying below that threshold results in raising "at risk" student scores without bringing down the scores of other students.

We are zoned for HES, Clearview (for AAP), HMS, and HHS. We have a great community, but as a recent PP pointed out, kids who get bussed from far off reaches of the school boundaries, don't mix much outside of school, and consequently, not as much inside school. Kids tend to socialize more with the kids from their neighborhoods. I see this at the AAP center and with the kids at HES grandfathered into the language immersion programs (French which ended with the graduating class & Spanish).

Plenty of good things happen in Herndon. It isn't perfect, and I see plenty of need for improvement, but it isn't the pit that some people make it out to be.

I seriously question some of these studies. Of course, teachers can give more time to "at risk" students if there are fewer of them, but, what is the remedy. To separate the neighborhoods street by street? When you have a large neighborhood of very poor kids, I guess the remedy would be to send A St. to X school, B street to Y School and C Street to Z school. That is unmanageable. I posted earlier that I taught in a school that was bused. It just does not work. And, it does not achieve "equity." It just enables the system to hide the problems instead of addressing them.

This is a problem that goes far beyond the schools. The education system should do its best with what it is given, but sprinkling the problem throughout is not going to help anyone.

Smart kids from good families are going to do fine wherever they are.

I'm not saying bussing is the solution. However, if some high risk areas are about equidistant to more than one school, then rezoning to elevate the pressure at one school may be in order.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As was discussed a year or two ago based on some study (cant find the thread now), once the student population reaches a certain level of FARMS kids, the whole school suffers in terms of academic performance. Staying below that threshold results in raising "at risk" student scores without bringing down the scores of other students.

We are zoned for HES, Clearview (for AAP), HMS, and HHS. We have a great community, but as a recent PP pointed out, kids who get bussed from far off reaches of the school boundaries, don't mix much outside of school, and consequently, not as much inside school. Kids tend to socialize more with the kids from their neighborhoods. I see this at the AAP center and with the kids at HES grandfathered into the language immersion programs (French which ended with the graduating class & Spanish).

Plenty of good things happen in Herndon. It isn't perfect, and I see plenty of need for improvement, but it isn't the pit that some people make it out to be.

I seriously question some of these studies. Of course, teachers can give more time to "at risk" students if there are fewer of them, but, what is the remedy. To separate the neighborhoods street by street? When you have a large neighborhood of very poor kids, I guess the remedy would be to send A St. to X school, B street to Y School and C Street to Z school. That is unmanageable. I posted earlier that I taught in a school that was bused. It just does not work. And, it does not achieve "equity." It just enables the system to hide the problems instead of addressing them.

This is a problem that goes far beyond the schools. The education system should do its best with what it is given, but sprinkling the problem throughout is not going to help anyone.

Smart kids from good families are going to do fine wherever they are.

I'm not saying bussing is the solution. However, if some high risk areas are about equidistant to more than one school, then rezoning to elevate the pressure at one school may be in order.

I forgot to mention that FCPS already does bussing for AAP kids. I don't like it, and I have an AAP kid too. "Bussing" hurts the community.

[Anonymous]

This comes up periodically but realistically there is a difference between busing kids whose families suppprt their attending an AAP center or TJ and busing Hispanic kids further away from schools closer to their residences because whites in Herndon think there are too many poor Hispanics in their pyramid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

As was discussed a year or two ago based on some study (cant find the thread now), once the student population reaches a certain level of FARMS kids, the whole school suffers in terms of academic performance. Staying below that threshold results in raising "at risk" student scores without bringing down the scores of other students.

Uh huh. And even accepting that questionable premise, what are you going to do when you run out of white kids who are needed to keep the proportion of non-FARMS kids above the magic level? That day is coming - and soon, thanks to the crazed Democrat insistence on open borders.

It's not just white kids/ families who are non-FARMS. What will probably happen is that most AAP centers will be dissolved and those students will go back to their base schools where Level IV services will be offered (I have a kid in one of these centers and I would be fine with this). Level IV AAP is <10% FARMS across the board. On one hand, some schools with centers really depend on those kids/ families to keep the schools out of Title I territory, but on the other hand, this just lets significant numbers of students who probably would benefit from Title I services flounder.

[Anonymous]

What I want to know is how do families in the Sugarland Run area of Herndon get zoned for Cooper/Langley (~10-12 miles away) instead of Herndon (a mile away), or even Reston? What the heck?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I want to know is how do families in the Sugarland Run area of Herndon get zoned for Cooper/Langley (~10-12 miles away) instead of Herndon (a mile away), or even Reston? What the heck?

That is surprising. I am not that familiar with the area, but I checked the boundary maps. They are Forestville Elementary and it makes sense for that reason to avoid the split feeder.
But, I suspect that the developer got that when the neighborhood was built. Is it an affluent neighborhood?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As was discussed a year or two ago based on some study (cant find the thread now), once the student population reaches a certain level of FARMS kids, the whole school suffers in terms of academic performance. Staying below that threshold results in raising "at risk" student scores without bringing down the scores of other students.

We are zoned for HES, Clearview (for AAP), HMS, and HHS. We have a great community, but as a recent PP pointed out, kids who get bussed from far off reaches of the school boundaries, don't mix much outside of school, and consequently, not as much inside school. Kids tend to socialize more with the kids from their neighborhoods. I see this at the AAP center and with the kids at HES grandfathered into the language immersion programs (French which ended with the graduating class & Spanish).

Plenty of good things happen in Herndon. It isn't perfect, and I see plenty of need for improvement, but it isn't the pit that some people make it out to be.

I seriously question some of these studies. Of course, teachers can give more time to "at risk" students if there are fewer of them, but, what is the remedy. To separate the neighborhoods street by street? When you have a large neighborhood of very poor kids, I guess the remedy would be to send A St. to X school, B street to Y School and C Street to Z school. That is unmanageable. I posted earlier that I taught in a school that was bused. It just does not work. And, it does not achieve "equity." It just enables the system to hide the problems instead of addressing them.

This is a problem that goes far beyond the schools. The education system should do its best with what it is given, but sprinkling the problem throughout is not going to help anyone.

Smart kids from good families are going to do fine wherever they are.

I'm not saying bussing is the solution. However, if some high risk areas are about equidistant to more than one school, then rezoning to elevate the pressure at one school may be in order.

I forgot to mention that FCPS already does bussing for AAP kids. I don't like it, and I have an AAP kid too. "Bussing" hurts the community.

So bussing the Western Great Falls kids who live 16 miles from Langley to Langley vs the 6 mile commute to Herndon is a bad thing? Right?

This is what they are fighting to keep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This comes up periodically but realistically there is a difference between busing kids whose families suppprt their attending an AAP center or TJ and busing Hispanic kids further away from schools closer to their residences because whites in Herndon think there are too many poor Hispanics in their pyramid.

It's not ideal, sure. But there are not many other solutions. It is a solution and it will help alleviate the burden on Herndon middle and Herndon high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This comes up periodically but realistically there is a difference between busing kids whose families suppprt their attending an AAP center or TJ and busing Hispanic kids further away from schools closer to their residences because whites in Herndon think there are too many poor Hispanics in their pyramid.

And this is how you pressure people to keep the status quo. Racists whites want the Hispanics gone!
I just sat in a meeting in Great Falls the other night where Jane Strauss soothed the parents of Forestville who were extremely concerned about a rumor that they were going to be rezoned into Herndon. Person after person got up to talk about how they did not want to be zoned from a top performing school to a low performing one. The problem needs to be addressed as to why Herndon's performance is so low and what can be done about it. Concentrated poverty (regardless of race) is a big issue. When you have schools in close proximity (3-4 miles of one another) where one has < 20% poverty and the other has 83% or one has 10% and the other has 50%, there are huge disparities on what each of those schools can offer their students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This comes up periodically but realistically there is a difference between busing kids whose families suppprt their attending an AAP center or TJ and busing Hispanic kids further away from schools closer to their residences because whites in Herndon think there are too many poor Hispanics in their pyramid.

It's not ideal, sure. But there are not many other solutions. It is a solution and it will help alleviate the burden on Herndon middle and Herndon high.

Taking kids from an underenrolled school and putting them into an overcrowded school will help alleviate the burden?

Please tell me how that helps. I guess I don't understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This comes up periodically but realistically there is a difference between busing kids whose families suppprt their attending an AAP center or TJ and busing Hispanic kids further away from schools closer to their residences because whites in Herndon think there are too many poor Hispanics in their pyramid.

And this is how you pressure people to keep the status quo. Racists whites want the Hispanics gone!
I just sat in a meeting in Great Falls the other night where Jane Strauss soothed the parents of Forestville who were extremely concerned about a rumor that they were going to be rezoned into Herndon. Person after person got up to talk about how they did not want to be zoned from a top performing school to a low performing one. The problem needs to be addressed as to why Herndon's performance is so low and what can be done about it. Concentrated poverty (regardless of race) is a big issue. When you have schools in close proximity (3-4 miles of one another) where one has < 20% poverty and the other has 83% or one has 10% and the other has 50%, there are huge disparities on what each of those schools can offer their students.

It sounds like those parents were painfully honest about their wishes.

As opposed to using “equity” as a cover for seeking a redistribution of brown kids and/or a subsidy whereby wealth is transferred - although with some wealth simply disappearing - from Langley to Herndon pyramid residents.

Of course, you could be specific about the disparities in opportunity that you believe exist, rather than just make the assertion. I think the burden is also on you to establish you want to expand the opportunities available to some, as opposed to merely shrinking an achievement gap by bringing down the top achievers.