Girls, 13 and 15, Charged With Murder After Armed Carjacking Near Nationals Park

[Anonymous]

I need to get the F out of DC. Anyone want to buy a nicely updated 3 bed, 3 bath in upper NW I have spent 20 years working 2 jobs to pay for and maintain? Oh, but guess should give you heads up we have carjackings up here too. But, these kids need more opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t forget to tell your children to always give up anything being stolen from you!! Stay calm, look down, give them whatever they want. This poor guy. His poor family. I hope those girls rot in prison for the rest of their lives.

Stop victim blaming. Shame on you!!!!

It's not victim-blaming, it's smart advice. If you're ever in an armed robbery give them what they want and you're more likely to be unharmed and survive. These were teenagers who were panicking because he wouldn't just step away from the car and there was another person filming.

Two things are correct: 1. he would be alive if they didn't decide to steal a car. 2. he would be alive if he had moved away from the car.

Yup, some of these posters seem like sociopaths themselves. No ability to empathize. Just blame the victim.

Your advice seems realistic in high crime areas where consequences for criminal behavior are minimal.

Also your advice seems realistic in hypotheticals but when the car jacking is actually happening people can only hope they would act the way they always bragged they would. But until the sh!t hits the fan people usually act much differently than they expected. They panic. Their instincts take over. So you can preach and preach and victim blame but you have zero way of ever knowing how you would react until you’re actually in the situation.

You are victim blaming and you’re a terrible person for doing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t forget to tell your children to always give up anything being stolen from you!! Stay calm, look down, give them whatever they want. This poor guy. His poor family. I hope those girls rot in prison for the rest of their lives.

Stop victim blaming. Shame on you!!!!

It's not victim-blaming, it's smart advice. If you're ever in an armed robbery give them what they want and you're more likely to be unharmed and survive. These were teenagers who were panicking because he wouldn't just step away from the car and there was another person filming.

Two things are correct: 1. he would be alive if they didn't decide to steal a car. 2. he would be alive if he had moved away from the car.

Yup, some of these posters seem like sociopaths themselves. No ability to empathize. Just blame the victim.

Your advice seems realistic in high crime areas where consequences for criminal behavior are minimal.

Also your advice seems realistic in hypotheticals but when the car jacking is actually happening people can only hope they would act the way they always bragged they would. But until the sh!t hits the fan people usually act much differently than they expected. They panic. Their instincts take over. So you can preach and preach and victim blame but you have zero way of ever knowing how you would react until you’re actually in the situation.

You are victim blaming and you’re a terrible person for doing it.

Yup, some of these posters seem like sociopaths themselves. No ability to empathize. Just blame the victim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is pretty clearly second degree murder; it’s not a felony murder scenario, and it’s not vehicular manslaughter. It’s depraved indifference to great risk to human life. It also doesn’t matter what they are charged with, my understanding of DC law is that no material prison sentences are possible given their ages. They will be out by their mid-20s, if that, because they can be “rehabilitated.” I certainly hope that is not the case, but fear it is.

why is it not felony murder? I think DC defines 1st degree murder to include any death in the comission of a kidnaping or theft.

The PP clearly does not practice criminal law in DC. This is textbook felony murder in the District. They were committing an armed carjacking (a felony) and this man was killed during the course of that offense. It does not matter that they didn’t intend for him to die, they intended to commit an armed carjacking and if someone dies during the course of that armed carjacking you are on the hook for felony murder. It’s not even a close call. Becuase this is DC they cannot be charged as adults and so the most they can get is a commitment to DCs juvenile justice agency until they are 21. They doesn’t mean they will be locked up until 21, only that the agency makes the decisions about what to do with them until they are 21.

Thank you for your clarifying response. Will their records be expunged or sealed, too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is pretty clearly second degree murder; it’s not a felony murder scenario, and it’s not vehicular manslaughter. It’s depraved indifference to great risk to human life. It also doesn’t matter what they are charged with, my understanding of DC law is that no material prison sentences are possible given their ages. They will be out by their mid-20s, if that, because they can be “rehabilitated.” I certainly hope that is not the case, but fear it is.

why is it not felony murder? I think DC defines 1st degree murder to include any death in the comission of a kidnaping or theft.

The PP clearly does not practice criminal law in DC. This is textbook felony murder in the District. They were committing an armed carjacking (a felony) and this man was killed during the course of that offense. It does not matter that they didn’t intend for him to die, they intended to commit an armed carjacking and if someone dies during the course of that armed carjacking you are on the hook for felony murder. It’s not even a close call. Becuase this is DC they cannot be charged as adults and so the most they can get is a commitment to DCs juvenile justice agency until they are 21. They doesn’t mean they will be locked up until 21, only that the agency makes the decisions about what to do with them until they are 21.

Sorry that was me, typing too fast. I mean to say not *just* a felony murder scenario, which I think of as more of a getaway driver type fact pattern. It clearly is that, as you point out, but the girls seem to me both directly involved in conduct that would also constitute second degree murder just because of its reckless disregard for life. I was making the point because felony murder has become controversial in some circles but none of that is relevant here. Both girls were directly engaged in conduct that would qualify as second degree murder whether or not it was also felony murder. That said, I don’t practice criminal defense law in DC courts and an open to correction on that point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is pretty clearly second degree murder; it’s not a felony murder scenario, and it’s not vehicular manslaughter. It’s depraved indifference to great risk to human life. It also doesn’t matter what they are charged with, my understanding of DC law is that no material prison sentences are possible given their ages. They will be out by their mid-20s, if that, because they can be “rehabilitated.” I certainly hope that is not the case, but fear it is.

why is it not felony murder? I think DC defines 1st degree murder to include any death in the comission of a kidnaping or theft.

The PP clearly does not practice criminal law in DC. This is textbook felony murder in the District. They were committing an armed carjacking (a felony) and this man was killed during the course of that offense. It does not matter that they didn’t intend for him to die, they intended to commit an armed carjacking and if someone dies during the course of that armed carjacking you are on the hook for felony murder. It’s not even a close call. Becuase this is DC they cannot be charged as adults and so the most they can get is a commitment to DCs juvenile justice agency until they are 21. They doesn’t mean they will be locked up until 21, only that the agency makes the decisions about what to do with them until they are 21.

Thank you for your clarifying response. Will their records be expunged or sealed, too?

After this case is over they can file a motion with the Court asking that it be sealed/expunged, but they can’t do that until 2 years after the case is closed which is 2 years after their “sentence” ends, so in this case likely when they are 23.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is pretty clearly second degree murder; it’s not a felony murder scenario, and it’s not vehicular manslaughter. It’s depraved indifference to great risk to human life. It also doesn’t matter what they are charged with, my understanding of DC law is that no material prison sentences are possible given their ages. They will be out by their mid-20s, if that, because they can be “rehabilitated.” I certainly hope that is not the case, but fear it is.

why is it not felony murder? I think DC defines 1st degree murder to include any death in the comission of a kidnaping or theft.

The PP clearly does not practice criminal law in DC. This is textbook felony murder in the District. They were committing an armed carjacking (a felony) and this man was killed during the course of that offense. It does not matter that they didn’t intend for him to die, they intended to commit an armed carjacking and if someone dies during the course of that armed carjacking you are on the hook for felony murder. It’s not even a close call. Becuase this is DC they cannot be charged as adults and so the most they can get is a commitment to DCs juvenile justice agency until they are 21. They doesn’t mean they will be locked up until 21, only that the agency makes the decisions about what to do with them until they are 21.

Thank you for your clarifying response. Will their records be expunged or sealed, too?

After this case is over they can file a motion with the Court asking that it be sealed/expunged, but they can’t do that until 2 years after the case is closed which is 2 years after their “sentence” ends, so in this case likely when they are 23.

PP here. Thanks for the info, although I think it's scary that adults with criminal pasts while juveniles can be hired for jobs for whichbthwy may not be at all suited. For example, working in an assisted living facility with vulnerable elderly persons.

[Anonymous]

I love how the primary concern of the “older” girl is “my phone is still in the car!”

As she’s standing a few feet from the guy she’s just killed, laying folded up and crushed against the wall.


We are literally living in “A Clockwork Orange”.

[Anonymous]

Because these girls clearly don’t give a damn about anyone. Laws need to change. Feral kids getting more dangerous by the day. They know they won’t be tried as adults.

[Anonymous]

Two boys set a man on fire in Rochester last week and an eighth grade girl was shot to death in Richmond.

Odd we didn’t hear about that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Two boys set a man on fire in Rochester last week and an eighth grade girl was shot to death in Richmond.

Odd we didn’t hear about that?

Because that was Rochester and Richmond. This was in Navy Yard. So yeah, it’s more relevant to most of us.

Your deflection is noted though.

[Anonymous]

Watching Fox5 News and a detective just reported one of the girls were arrested for a similar incident back in January.

Sad that time and time again suspects in DC are most likely recurring offenders which in many cases lead to deaths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The man who was killed by these girls was an immigrant from Pakistan who leaves behind a wife and two adult children here and an adult son and four grandchildren in Pakistan.

The 15 year old will not be tried as an adult, meaning she'll be back on the streets very soon. The 13 year old cannot be tried as an adult under DC law.

https://twitter.com/RamirezReports/status/1374766819735703555

It’s barbaric to prosecute children as adults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two boys set a man on fire in Rochester last week and an eighth grade girl was shot to death in Richmond.

Odd we didn’t hear about that?

Because that was Rochester and Richmond. This was in Navy Yard. So yeah, it’s more relevant to most of us.

Your deflection is noted though.

I read about the 8th grade girl who was walking in her neighborhood and was shot by another juvenile. It’s getting some press, especially considering it happened in the suburbs of Richmond in a regular, sleepy HOA type neighborhood. She was walking on a well known path that connects the local high school to the neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The man who was killed by these girls was an immigrant from Pakistan who leaves behind a wife and two adult children here and an adult son and four grandchildren in Pakistan.

The 15 year old will not be tried as an adult, meaning she'll be back on the streets very soon. The 13 year old cannot be tried as an adult under DC law.

https://twitter.com/RamirezReports/status/1374766819735703555

It’s barbaric to prosecute children as adults.

If you watch the video, it’s barbaric to see what those girls did to Anwar. Watch until the very end