PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agreed. And Jews should not celebrate Christmas, either.

Most of us don't!

I know of ZERO Christians who host Seders. BUT, I know of MANY, MANY, MANY Jews how have Christmas trees!!

Whoa. Calm down.

First of all, just because you don’t know any doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

Second, a Christmas tree is hardly equivalent to a Passover Seder.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oops! Forgot to include #3 - not sure what you meant by Christians discarding the Tanakh except for the Ten Commandments. I don’t believe this is true, although there are laws, etc. that modern Jews and Christians don’t follow.

I mean, there’s plenty that Christians embrace that are totally antithetical to what Jews believe.

Judaism isn’t some primitive version of Christianity.

Of course not; I wasn’t suggesting it is.

But that’s what you imply when you talk about how Christians should be able to just celebrate Christian Seders, when Jesus wouldn’t have had a Passover Seder, as they didn’t exist then. Passover existed, but not as a Seder.

Why not just acknowledge it as the Last Supper? Maudy Thursday is all about that, right? How is incorporating elements of a rabbinical Passover Seder enhancing or informing Christianity, when those traditions didn’t start until 70-600 years after Jesus died?

Because It is about redemption, God’s love and protection, and the importance of retelling history.

And none of that has anything to do with rabbinical Passover.

To whit: you can claim the Last Supper, and the lamb sacrifice as something Jesus participated in as part of that, but you don’t get to tell us what rabbinical Passover is about. That was hundreds of years after Jesus died and was exclusively a Jewish matter.

No one is trying to tell you what Passover is about. You are trying to tell others why they can’t find meaning in it for themselves. If they believe it informs their religion or enhances their belief in God isn’t that a personal experience? One that doesn’t take away from or erase your practice or beliefs?

We’ve explained many, many times how it’s disrespectful to take a Seder, which is wholly Jewish and was conceived of 70-500 years after Jesus’s death, and making it about Jesus is disrespectful. The Last Supper was not a Seder because Passover wasn’t celebrated that way then.

We’ve told you many times about how it amounts to erasing what is wholly a Jewish experience.

We can’t stop you from doing it. We can only tell you what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oops! Forgot to include #3 - not sure what you meant by Christians discarding the Tanakh except for the Ten Commandments. I don’t believe this is true, although there are laws, etc. that modern Jews and Christians don’t follow.

I mean, there’s plenty that Christians embrace that are totally antithetical to what Jews believe.

Judaism isn’t some primitive version of Christianity.

Of course not; I wasn’t suggesting it is.

But that’s what you imply when you talk about how Christians should be able to just celebrate Christian Seders, when Jesus wouldn’t have had a Passover Seder, as they didn’t exist then. Passover existed, but not as a Seder.

Why not just acknowledge it as the Last Supper? Maudy Thursday is all about that, right? How is incorporating elements of a rabbinical Passover Seder enhancing or informing Christianity, when those traditions didn’t start until 70-600 years after Jesus died?

Because It is about redemption, God’s love and protection, and the importance of retelling history.

And none of that has anything to do with rabbinical Passover.

To whit: you can claim the Last Supper, and the lamb sacrifice as something Jesus participated in as part of that, but you don’t get to tell us what rabbinical Passover is about. That was hundreds of years after Jesus died and was exclusively a Jewish matter.

No one is trying to tell you what Passover is about. You are trying to tell others why they can’t find meaning in it for themselves. If they believe it informs their religion or enhances their belief in God isn’t that a personal experience? One that doesn’t take away from or erase your practice or beliefs?

We’ve explained many, many times how it’s disrespectful to take a Seder, which is wholly Jewish and was conceived of 70-500 years after Jesus’s death, and making it about Jesus is disrespectful. The Last Supper was not a Seder because Passover wasn’t celebrated that way then.

We’ve told you many times about how it amounts to erasing what is wholly a Jewish experience.

We can’t stop you from doing it. We can only tell you what it is.

We have told you many times how even though Jesus didn’t himself participate in a Passover Seder, there is still meaning in it for some Christians.
How does doing so amount to erasing your experience?

[Anonymous]

The Rabbi at West End Synagogue in NY had a great explanation of this last year: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1246809616022986753.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oops! Forgot to include #3 - not sure what you meant by Christians discarding the Tanakh except for the Ten Commandments. I don’t believe this is true, although there are laws, etc. that modern Jews and Christians don’t follow.

I mean, there’s plenty that Christians embrace that are totally antithetical to what Jews believe.

Judaism isn’t some primitive version of Christianity.

Of course not; I wasn’t suggesting it is.

But that’s what you imply when you talk about how Christians should be able to just celebrate Christian Seders, when Jesus wouldn’t have had a Passover Seder, as they didn’t exist then. Passover existed, but not as a Seder.

Why not just acknowledge it as the Last Supper? Maudy Thursday is all about that, right? How is incorporating elements of a rabbinical Passover Seder enhancing or informing Christianity, when those traditions didn’t start until 70-600 years after Jesus died?

Because It is about redemption, God’s love and protection, and the importance of retelling history.

And none of that has anything to do with rabbinical Passover.

To whit: you can claim the Last Supper, and the lamb sacrifice as something Jesus participated in as part of that, but you don’t get to tell us what rabbinical Passover is about. That was hundreds of years after Jesus died and was exclusively a Jewish matter.

No one is trying to tell you what Passover is about. You are trying to tell others why they can’t find meaning in it for themselves. If they believe it informs their religion or enhances their belief in God isn’t that a personal experience? One that doesn’t take away from or erase your practice or beliefs?

We’ve explained many, many times how it’s disrespectful to take a Seder, which is wholly Jewish and was conceived of 70-500 years after Jesus’s death, and making it about Jesus is disrespectful. The Last Supper was not a Seder because Passover wasn’t celebrated that way then.

We’ve told you many times about how it amounts to erasing what is wholly a Jewish experience.

We can’t stop you from doing it. We can only tell you what it is.

We have told you many times how even though Jesus didn’t himself participate in a Passover Seder, there is still meaning in it for some Christians.
How does doing so amount to erasing your experience?

Because you’re literally taking our Seder, erasing it, and inserting Jesus into it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oops! Forgot to include #3 - not sure what you meant by Christians discarding the Tanakh except for the Ten Commandments. I don’t believe this is true, although there are laws, etc. that modern Jews and Christians don’t follow.

I mean, there’s plenty that Christians embrace that are totally antithetical to what Jews believe.

Judaism isn’t some primitive version of Christianity.

Of course not; I wasn’t suggesting it is.

But that’s what you imply when you talk about how Christians should be able to just celebrate Christian Seders, when Jesus wouldn’t have had a Passover Seder, as they didn’t exist then. Passover existed, but not as a Seder.

Why not just acknowledge it as the Last Supper? Maudy Thursday is all about that, right? How is incorporating elements of a rabbinical Passover Seder enhancing or informing Christianity, when those traditions didn’t start until 70-600 years after Jesus died?

Because It is about redemption, God’s love and protection, and the importance of retelling history.

And none of that has anything to do with rabbinical Passover.

To whit: you can claim the Last Supper, and the lamb sacrifice as something Jesus participated in as part of that, but you don’t get to tell us what rabbinical Passover is about. That was hundreds of years after Jesus died and was exclusively a Jewish matter.

No one is trying to tell you what Passover is about. You are trying to tell others why they can’t find meaning in it for themselves. If they believe it informs their religion or enhances their belief in God isn’t that a personal experience? One that doesn’t take away from or erase your practice or beliefs?

We’ve explained many, many times how it’s disrespectful to take a Seder, which is wholly Jewish and was conceived of 70-500 years after Jesus’s death, and making it about Jesus is disrespectful. The Last Supper was not a Seder because Passover wasn’t celebrated that way then.

We’ve told you many times about how it amounts to erasing what is wholly a Jewish experience.

We can’t stop you from doing it. We can only tell you what it is.

We have told you many times how even though Jesus didn’t himself participate in a Passover Seder, there is still meaning in it for some Christians.
How does doing so amount to erasing your experience?

Because you’re literally taking our Seder, erasing it, and inserting Jesus into it.

I’m personally not participating in it, but no one (in this context) is erasing the Passover Seder. Interpreting it in terms of Jesus offends you, but no one is erasing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oops! Forgot to include #3 - not sure what you meant by Christians discarding the Tanakh except for the Ten Commandments. I don’t believe this is true, although there are laws, etc. that modern Jews and Christians don’t follow.

I mean, there’s plenty that Christians embrace that are totally antithetical to what Jews believe.

Judaism isn’t some primitive version of Christianity.

Of course not; I wasn’t suggesting it is.

But that’s what you imply when you talk about how Christians should be able to just celebrate Christian Seders, when Jesus wouldn’t have had a Passover Seder, as they didn’t exist then. Passover existed, but not as a Seder.

Why not just acknowledge it as the Last Supper? Maudy Thursday is all about that, right? How is incorporating elements of a rabbinical Passover Seder enhancing or informing Christianity, when those traditions didn’t start until 70-600 years after Jesus died?

Because It is about redemption, God’s love and protection, and the importance of retelling history.

And none of that has anything to do with rabbinical Passover.

To whit: you can claim the Last Supper, and the lamb sacrifice as something Jesus participated in as part of that, but you don’t get to tell us what rabbinical Passover is about. That was hundreds of years after Jesus died and was exclusively a Jewish matter.

No one is trying to tell you what Passover is about. You are trying to tell others why they can’t find meaning in it for themselves. If they believe it informs their religion or enhances their belief in God isn’t that a personal experience? One that doesn’t take away from or erase your practice or beliefs?

We’ve explained many, many times how it’s disrespectful to take a Seder, which is wholly Jewish and was conceived of 70-500 years after Jesus’s death, and making it about Jesus is disrespectful. The Last Supper was not a Seder because Passover wasn’t celebrated that way then.

We’ve told you many times about how it amounts to erasing what is wholly a Jewish experience.

We can’t stop you from doing it. We can only tell you what it is.

We have told you many times how even though Jesus didn’t himself participate in a Passover Seder, there is still meaning in it for some Christians.
How does doing so amount to erasing your experience?

Because you’re literally taking our Seder, erasing it, and inserting Jesus into it.

I’m personally not participating in it, but no one (in this context) is erasing the Passover Seder. Interpreting it in terms of Jesus offends you, but no one is erasing it.

Jesus didn’t participate in a rabbinic Passover Seder, so it is literally taking a Jewish ritual, erasing it, and inserting Jesus.

There’s no interpreting here. No version of this that one could plausibly see Jesus in. It’s a wholly Jewish thing.

It would be like taking a Muslim holiday and just inserting Jesus into it because “it has meaning for some of us.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and *no* Jews believe Jesus was the lamb of God. Not most.
[/quot

Sure they do. They are called Messianic Christians. My husband and daughter are Messianic Christians.

Messianic Christians aren’t Jews.

Are JewBus (Jewish Buddhists) Jews?

[Anonymous]

Just from a basic learning standpoint, how/why was the rabbinical Seder created? I’ve gathered there was a prior form of Passover celebration (which Jesus celebrated) and some years later the Seder was established. Can someone let us know the background? Thanks

[Anonymous]

Area Rando jumps straight to page 25 over morning coffee - film at eleven.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oops! Forgot to include #3 - not sure what you meant by Christians discarding the Tanakh except for the Ten Commandments. I don’t believe this is true, although there are laws, etc. that modern Jews and Christians don’t follow.

I mean, there’s plenty that Christians embrace that are totally antithetical to what Jews believe.

Judaism isn’t some primitive version of Christianity.

Of course not; I wasn’t suggesting it is.

But that’s what you imply when you talk about how Christians should be able to just celebrate Christian Seders, when Jesus wouldn’t have had a Passover Seder, as they didn’t exist then. Passover existed, but not as a Seder.

Why not just acknowledge it as the Last Supper? Maudy Thursday is all about that, right? How is incorporating elements of a rabbinical Passover Seder enhancing or informing Christianity, when those traditions didn’t start until 70-600 years after Jesus died?

Because It is about redemption, God’s love and protection, and the importance of retelling history.

And none of that has anything to do with rabbinical Passover.

To whit: you can claim the Last Supper, and the lamb sacrifice as something Jesus participated in as part of that, but you don’t get to tell us what rabbinical Passover is about. That was hundreds of years after Jesus died and was exclusively a Jewish matter.

No one is trying to tell you what Passover is about. You are trying to tell others why they can’t find meaning in it for themselves. If they believe it informs their religion or enhances their belief in God isn’t that a personal experience? One that doesn’t take away from or erase your practice or beliefs?

We’ve explained many, many times how it’s disrespectful to take a Seder, which is wholly Jewish and was conceived of 70-500 years after Jesus’s death, and making it about Jesus is disrespectful. The Last Supper was not a Seder because Passover wasn’t celebrated that way then.

We’ve told you many times about how it amounts to erasing what is wholly a Jewish experience.

We can’t stop you from doing it. We can only tell you what it is.

We have told you many times how even though Jesus didn’t himself participate in a Passover Seder, there is still meaning in it for some Christians.
How does doing so amount to erasing your experience?

Nothing anyone does in their own home or own house of worship "erases" someone else's beliefs, practices or traditions. Just like you not recognizing Jesus as Savior does not "erase" that truth for me.
Because you’re literally taking our Seder, erasing it, and inserting Jesus into it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oops! Forgot to include #3 - not sure what you meant by Christians discarding the Tanakh except for the Ten Commandments. I don’t believe this is true, although there are laws, etc. that modern Jews and Christians don’t follow.

I mean, there’s plenty that Christians embrace that are totally antithetical to what Jews believe.

Judaism isn’t some primitive version of Christianity.

Of course not; I wasn’t suggesting it is.

But that’s what you imply when you talk about how Christians should be able to just celebrate Christian Seders, when Jesus wouldn’t have had a Passover Seder, as they didn’t exist then. Passover existed, but not as a Seder.

Why not just acknowledge it as the Last Supper? Maudy Thursday is all about that, right? How is incorporating elements of a rabbinical Passover Seder enhancing or informing Christianity, when those traditions didn’t start until 70-600 years after Jesus died?

Because It is about redemption, God’s love and protection, and the importance of retelling history.

And none of that has anything to do with rabbinical Passover.

To whit: you can claim the Last Supper, and the lamb sacrifice as something Jesus participated in as part of that, but you don’t get to tell us what rabbinical Passover is about. That was hundreds of years after Jesus died and was exclusively a Jewish matter.

No one is trying to tell you what Passover is about. You are trying to tell others why they can’t find meaning in it for themselves. If they believe it informs their religion or enhances their belief in God isn’t that a personal experience? One that doesn’t take away from or erase your practice or beliefs?

We’ve explained many, many times how it’s disrespectful to take a Seder, which is wholly Jewish and was conceived of 70-500 years after Jesus’s death, and making it about Jesus is disrespectful. The Last Supper was not a Seder because Passover wasn’t celebrated that way then.

We’ve told you many times about how it amounts to erasing what is wholly a Jewish experience.

We can’t stop you from doing it. We can only tell you what it is.

We have told you many times how even though Jesus didn’t himself participate in a Passover Seder, there is still meaning in it for some Christians.
How does doing so amount to erasing your experience?

Nothing anyone does in their own home or own house of worship "erases" someone else's beliefs, practices or traditions. Just like you not recognizing Jesus as Savior does not "erase" that truth for me.
Because you’re literally taking our Seder, erasing it, and inserting Jesus into it.

I am not taking a Christian ritual and eliminating Jesus from it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just from a basic learning standpoint, how/why was the rabbinical Seder created? I’ve gathered there was a prior form of Passover celebration (which Jesus celebrated) and some years later the Seder was established. Can someone let us know the background? Thanks

During Jesus’s time, the Jews had a large temple where we did animal sacrifices, had priests, etc. In 70 CE, the Romans destroyed it (and may have used some of it to build the Colosseum). The remaining wall of the Second Temple is the Western wall, the holiest site for Jews. The Dome of the Rock is currently on the site of the Second Temple.

Anyway, after the Second Temple was destroyed, Jews went into exile, and we’ve been in exile ever since (except for Jews who live in Israel). We started to write our prayers down, since we couldn’t as easily rely on oral traditions, like we did when we had the temple and could all gather there. That’s how we started writing the Torah as an intact document. That’s when we switched from having high priests to having rabbis — hence the term “rabbinical Judaism” for that time period, which extends to this day. The Seder was created as a largely home-based ritual during that time period.

So as you can see, the rabbinical Seder came out of adjustments we had to make because of persecution we faced. It has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oops! Forgot to include #3 - not sure what you meant by Christians discarding the Tanakh except for the Ten Commandments. I don’t believe this is true, although there are laws, etc. that modern Jews and Christians don’t follow.

I mean, there’s plenty that Christians embrace that are totally antithetical to what Jews believe.

Judaism isn’t some primitive version of Christianity.

Of course not; I wasn’t suggesting it is.

But that’s what you imply when you talk about how Christians should be able to just celebrate Christian Seders, when Jesus wouldn’t have had a Passover Seder, as they didn’t exist then. Passover existed, but not as a Seder.

Why not just acknowledge it as the Last Supper? Maudy Thursday is all about that, right? How is incorporating elements of a rabbinical Passover Seder enhancing or informing Christianity, when those traditions didn’t start until 70-600 years after Jesus died?

Because It is about redemption, God’s love and protection, and the importance of retelling history.

And none of that has anything to do with rabbinical Passover.

To whit: you can claim the Last Supper, and the lamb sacrifice as something Jesus participated in as part of that, but you don’t get to tell us what rabbinical Passover is about. That was hundreds of years after Jesus died and was exclusively a Jewish matter.

No one is trying to tell you what Passover is about. You are trying to tell others why they can’t find meaning in it for themselves. If they believe it informs their religion or enhances their belief in God isn’t that a personal experience? One that doesn’t take away from or erase your practice or beliefs?

We’ve explained many, many times how it’s disrespectful to take a Seder, which is wholly Jewish and was conceived of 70-500 years after Jesus’s death, and making it about Jesus is disrespectful. The Last Supper was not a Seder because Passover wasn’t celebrated that way then.

We’ve told you many times about how it amounts to erasing what is wholly a Jewish experience.

We can’t stop you from doing it. We can only tell you what it is.

We have told you many times how even though Jesus didn’t himself participate in a Passover Seder, there is still meaning in it for some Christians.
How does doing so amount to erasing your experience?

Nothing anyone does in their own home or own house of worship "erases" someone else's beliefs, practices or traditions. Just like you not recognizing Jesus as Savior does not "erase" that truth for me.
Because you’re literally taking our Seder, erasing it, and inserting Jesus into it.

I am not taking a Christian ritual and eliminating Jesus from it.

And if you did, that wouldn't affect my beliefs, practices, or ability to worship in any way.

You could put up a manger scene and put a bag of M&Ms where the Christ Child should be; that doesn't agent me. You could hang a photo of Rick James on a cross instead of a figure of Christ. That doesn't affect me. You could light a menorah but call it an Advent wreath. That has no affect on me, what I do, and what I believe.

[Anonymous]

Oh and before the second temple existed, we had a first temple — King Solomon’s temple. The Babylonians destroyed that one some time around 700 BCE.