New TJ Lawsuit Filed 3/10/21 by Pacific Legal Foundation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the large numbers of kids who did not need to prep for that test (including Asians) and found it easy now have a much lower chance of admissions. Those are the kids who end up loving TJ.

This. You need talent to do well. Pro-FCPS Posters here refusing to give TJ kids credit for their natural talent are showing their own prejudice without facts. To the contrary, TJ kids have gone on doing very well in HS, colleges, and professionally. It's in the government's interest to identify those talented kids and develop them.

You also need strong work ethics to do well at a high level. Even MJ and LBJ need to put in some practice to maintain their high performance. Tiger Woods is probably the hardest working golfer out there even with his talent. There is no free lunch. Strong work ethics beat talent with no drive. Government shouldn't set policy to discriminate towards people who put in the work.

Also it's very much the American culture to push kids to do well. If you don't put in enough work in practice, don't expect travel teams to give you a spot when there are other kids who have "prep"-ed. There are all kinds of academies for kids prepping for travel sports.

Look, I am an Indian and understand exactly what you are saying.

I am against complete lottery which is not a good idea for one reason. Say there are really 10 really talented kids per year in this area, the lottery is going to miss 9 of them (assuming 500 kids are selected and 5000 kids apply). That to me is a really stupid thing. I really dont think there are more than say 50 kids who really really "need" TJ in these sense that they would excel in a way they would not at their local HS. Dont want to miss those kids.

The problem with "strong work ethics" is say someone is practicing for TJ from 5th grade on - and 100% it is the parents who are making this decision about "strong work ethics", they would get in just because they practiced it so much over a kid who might have a real strong work ethic, but would not be going to a 3 year test taking class. Their strong work ethic would be much more widespread over many things but it would not really help them with the TJ test. I know kids who are in both categories.

I went to the first two rallies against the merit lottery. I was there in the picture in front of TJ and at the Gatehouse. I do understand both for and against the changes.

I really did not like the way the board rushed the changes in the middle of a pandemic trying to take advantage of the current political climate, the anti Asian and racist undertone of the VA education secretary, etc. But there are equally valid points for making changes, not the way they have done of course.

You pretty much nailed this. I am probably the most vocal pro-reform person on this board (once you clear out the idiots who say "everyone cheats" and "here illegally" and all that crap), and I too was against the lottery for the same reasons you mentioned - although in many ways it would have been an improvement. I think the number of real stars who would be underserved at another high school is closer to 100 than 50, based on my years of experience (the year I was a freshman at TJ started with a 1), and that really, you could have replaced the other 80-90% (of which I was one, mind you) with any of a number of really talented kids with no drop off. But it would absolutely be a damn shame to lose those real stars - and I don't think you will with the new process.

It's a total fallacy that the old process selected the "best" 480 kids. The Admissions Office would tell you this.

TJ's environment desperately needs to be improved. The kids there know it - even those who have grown to love it know it and would love it better if it were more positive and supportive and less competitive. I am hoping that the new admissions process intentionally decides to select for the total contribution of the student to the academic environment, as opposed to the old process which only selected for academic achievement. Academic achievement should be a major component in that process, and this is why I advocate for TJ to allow optional testing submissions if the family wants to, but for TJ not to administer the exam themselves.

But there is so much more that goes into being a positive contributor to the environment, and TJ's student experience would be VASTLY improved (and almost certainly result in better overall outcomes) if the process selected for students who were likely to contribute in that manner. This is why I support (even though they CAN be subject to bias) including one STEM and one non-STEM teacher recommendation in the profile - because it's really only teachers that have a great handle on the contributions a student is likely to make above and beyond just how smart they are. Don't like the subjectivity? Wait until your job references are called ten years from now.

There are way more than 550 kids each year who can thrive in TJ's academic environment. You can have both - outstanding academic achievement and outstanding contributions to the academic environment. It's time for the holistic process to demand more of these students by seeking both.

the more i read from this person, the more i think they should be in charge of tj admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the large numbers of kids who did not need to prep for that test (including Asians) and found it easy now have a much lower chance of admissions. Those are the kids who end up loving TJ.

This. You need talent to do well. Pro-FCPS Posters here refusing to give TJ kids credit for their natural talent are showing their own prejudice without facts. To the contrary, TJ kids have gone on doing very well in HS, colleges, and professionally. It's in the government's interest to identify those talented kids and develop them.

You also need strong work ethics to do well at a high level. Even MJ and LBJ need to put in some practice to maintain their high performance. Tiger Woods is probably the hardest working golfer out there even with his talent. There is no free lunch. Strong work ethics beat talent with no drive. Government shouldn't set policy to discriminate towards people who put in the work.

Also it's very much the American culture to push kids to do well. If you don't put in enough work in practice, don't expect travel teams to give you a spot when there are other kids who have "prep"-ed. There are all kinds of academies for kids prepping for travel sports.

Look, I am an Indian and understand exactly what you are saying.

I am against complete lottery which is not a good idea for one reason. Say there are really 10 really talented kids per year in this area, the lottery is going to miss 9 of them (assuming 500 kids are selected and 5000 kids apply). That to me is a really stupid thing. I really dont think there are more than say 50 kids who really really "need" TJ in these sense that they would excel in a way they would not at their local HS. Dont want to miss those kids.

The problem with "strong work ethics" is say someone is practicing for TJ from 5th grade on - and 100% it is the parents who are making this decision about "strong work ethics", they would get in just because they practiced it so much over a kid who might have a real strong work ethic, but would not be going to a 3 year test taking class. Their strong work ethic would be much more widespread over many things but it would not really help them with the TJ test. I know kids who are in both categories.

I went to the first two rallies against the merit lottery. I was there in the picture in front of TJ and at the Gatehouse. I do understand both for and against the changes.

I really did not like the way the board rushed the changes in the middle of a pandemic trying to take advantage of the current political climate, the anti Asian and racist undertone of the VA education secretary, etc. But there are equally valid points for making changes, not the way they have done of course.

You pretty much nailed this. I am probably the most vocal pro-reform person on this board (once you clear out the idiots who say "everyone cheats" and "here illegally" and all that crap), and I too was against the lottery for the same reasons you mentioned - although in many ways it would have been an improvement. I think the number of real stars who would be underserved at another high school is closer to 100 than 50, based on my years of experience (the year I was a freshman at TJ started with a 1), and that really, you could have replaced the other 80-90% (of which I was one, mind you) with any of a number of really talented kids with no drop off. But it would absolutely be a damn shame to lose those real stars - and I don't think you will with the new process.

It's a total fallacy that the old process selected the "best" 480 kids. The Admissions Office would tell you this.

TJ's environment desperately needs to be improved. The kids there know it - even those who have grown to love it know it and would love it better if it were more positive and supportive and less competitive. I am hoping that the new admissions process intentionally decides to select for the total contribution of the student to the academic environment, as opposed to the old process which only selected for academic achievement. Academic achievement should be a major component in that process, and this is why I advocate for TJ to allow optional testing submissions if the family wants to, but for TJ not to administer the exam themselves.

But there is so much more that goes into being a positive contributor to the environment, and TJ's student experience would be VASTLY improved (and almost certainly result in better overall outcomes) if the process selected for students who were likely to contribute in that manner. This is why I support (even though they CAN be subject to bias) including one STEM and one non-STEM teacher recommendation in the profile - because it's really only teachers that have a great handle on the contributions a student is likely to make above and beyond just how smart they are. Don't like the subjectivity? Wait until your job references are called ten years from now.

There are way more than 550 kids each year who can thrive in TJ's academic environment. You can have both - outstanding academic achievement and outstanding contributions to the academic environment. It's time for the holistic process to demand more of these students by seeking both.

the more i read from this person, the more i think they should be in charge of tj admissions

The more I read about this topic, the more I think they should eliminate TJ. The navel-gazing within the TJ community knows no bounds, and you're just becoming an ever-bigger drag on the ability of FCPS to focus on what matters to at least 96% of the students it is supposed to be educating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the large numbers of kids who did not need to prep for that test (including Asians) and found it easy now have a much lower chance of admissions. Those are the kids who end up loving TJ.

This. You need talent to do well. Pro-FCPS Posters here refusing to give TJ kids credit for their natural talent are showing their own prejudice without facts. To the contrary, TJ kids have gone on doing very well in HS, colleges, and professionally. It's in the government's interest to identify those talented kids and develop them.

You also need strong work ethics to do well at a high level. Even MJ and LBJ need to put in some practice to maintain their high performance. Tiger Woods is probably the hardest working golfer out there even with his talent. There is no free lunch. Strong work ethics beat talent with no drive. Government shouldn't set policy to discriminate towards people who put in the work.

Also it's very much the American culture to push kids to do well. If you don't put in enough work in practice, don't expect travel teams to give you a spot when there are other kids who have "prep"-ed. There are all kinds of academies for kids prepping for travel sports.

Look, I am an Indian and understand exactly what you are saying.

I am against complete lottery which is not a good idea for one reason. Say there are really 10 really talented kids per year in this area, the lottery is going to miss 9 of them (assuming 500 kids are selected and 5000 kids apply). That to me is a really stupid thing. I really dont think there are more than say 50 kids who really really "need" TJ in these sense that they would excel in a way they would not at their local HS. Dont want to miss those kids.

The problem with "strong work ethics" is say someone is practicing for TJ from 5th grade on - and 100% it is the parents who are making this decision about "strong work ethics", they would get in just because they practiced it so much over a kid who might have a real strong work ethic, but would not be going to a 3 year test taking class. Their strong work ethic would be much more widespread over many things but it would not really help them with the TJ test. I know kids who are in both categories.

I went to the first two rallies against the merit lottery. I was there in the picture in front of TJ and at the Gatehouse. I do understand both for and against the changes.

I really did not like the way the board rushed the changes in the middle of a pandemic trying to take advantage of the current political climate, the anti Asian and racist undertone of the VA education secretary, etc. But there are equally valid points for making changes, not the way they have done of course.

You pretty much nailed this. I am probably the most vocal pro-reform person on this board (once you clear out the idiots who say "everyone cheats" and "here illegally" and all that crap), and I too was against the lottery for the same reasons you mentioned - although in many ways it would have been an improvement. I think the number of real stars who would be underserved at another high school is closer to 100 than 50, based on my years of experience (the year I was a freshman at TJ started with a 1), and that really, you could have replaced the other 80-90% (of which I was one, mind you) with any of a number of really talented kids with no drop off. But it would absolutely be a damn shame to lose those real stars - and I don't think you will with the new process.

It's a total fallacy that the old process selected the "best" 480 kids. The Admissions Office would tell you this.

TJ's environment desperately needs to be improved. The kids there know it - even those who have grown to love it know it and would love it better if it were more positive and supportive and less competitive. I am hoping that the new admissions process intentionally decides to select for the total contribution of the student to the academic environment, as opposed to the old process which only selected for academic achievement. Academic achievement should be a major component in that process, and this is why I advocate for TJ to allow optional testing submissions if the family wants to, but for TJ not to administer the exam themselves.

But there is so much more that goes into being a positive contributor to the environment, and TJ's student experience would be VASTLY improved (and almost certainly result in better overall outcomes) if the process selected for students who were likely to contribute in that manner. This is why I support (even though they CAN be subject to bias) including one STEM and one non-STEM teacher recommendation in the profile - because it's really only teachers that have a great handle on the contributions a student is likely to make above and beyond just how smart they are. Don't like the subjectivity? Wait until your job references are called ten years from now.

There are way more than 550 kids each year who can thrive in TJ's academic environment. You can have both - outstanding academic achievement and outstanding contributions to the academic environment. It's time for the holistic process to demand more of these students by seeking both.

the more i read from this person, the more i think they should be in charge of tj admissions

The more I read about this topic, the more I think they should eliminate TJ. The navel-gazing within the TJ community knows no bounds, and you're just becoming an ever-bigger drag on the ability of FCPS to focus on what matters to at least 96% of the students it is supposed to be educating.

or they could just get it right and move on and not waste the $100m they just spent on a building that can't house any other school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the large numbers of kids who did not need to prep for that test (including Asians) and found it easy now have a much lower chance of admissions. Those are the kids who end up loving TJ.

This. You need talent to do well. Pro-FCPS Posters here refusing to give TJ kids credit for their natural talent are showing their own prejudice without facts. To the contrary, TJ kids have gone on doing very well in HS, colleges, and professionally. It's in the government's interest to identify those talented kids and develop them.

You also need strong work ethics to do well at a high level. Even MJ and LBJ need to put in some practice to maintain their high performance. Tiger Woods is probably the hardest working golfer out there even with his talent. There is no free lunch. Strong work ethics beat talent with no drive. Government shouldn't set policy to discriminate towards people who put in the work.

Also it's very much the American culture to push kids to do well. If you don't put in enough work in practice, don't expect travel teams to give you a spot when there are other kids who have "prep"-ed. There are all kinds of academies for kids prepping for travel sports.

Look, I am an Indian and understand exactly what you are saying.

I am against complete lottery which is not a good idea for one reason. Say there are really 10 really talented kids per year in this area, the lottery is going to miss 9 of them (assuming 500 kids are selected and 5000 kids apply). That to me is a really stupid thing. I really dont think there are more than say 50 kids who really really "need" TJ in these sense that they would excel in a way they would not at their local HS. Dont want to miss those kids.

The problem with "strong work ethics" is say someone is practicing for TJ from 5th grade on - and 100% it is the parents who are making this decision about "strong work ethics", they would get in just because they practiced it so much over a kid who might have a real strong work ethic, but would not be going to a 3 year test taking class. Their strong work ethic would be much more widespread over many things but it would not really help them with the TJ test. I know kids who are in both categories.

I went to the first two rallies against the merit lottery. I was there in the picture in front of TJ and at the Gatehouse. I do understand both for and against the changes.

I really did not like the way the board rushed the changes in the middle of a pandemic trying to take advantage of the current political climate, the anti Asian and racist undertone of the VA education secretary, etc. But there are equally valid points for making changes, not the way they have done of course.

The kids who did 3 year testing class and nothing else will not be successful in HS and beyond. They are a small percentage (you need to pass the holistic review after the first cut based on test), and more parents are realizing base schools are the better option for the "mediocre" over-prepped kids. About 10% kids move back to their base school after first year. To identify that category kids, teacher recommendations will help. You know what else FCPS eliminated - teachers' recommendation. So that's not the problem that FCPS is addressing. FCPS doesn't like the racial makeup of the school (Indians are overrepresented) and wants to rebalance it based on race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the large numbers of kids who did not need to prep for that test (including Asians) and found it easy now have a much lower chance of admissions. Those are the kids who end up loving TJ.

This. You need talent to do well. Pro-FCPS Posters here refusing to give TJ kids credit for their natural talent are showing their own prejudice without facts. To the contrary, TJ kids have gone on doing very well in HS, colleges, and professionally. It's in the government's interest to identify those talented kids and develop them.

You also need strong work ethics to do well at a high level. Even MJ and LBJ need to put in some practice to maintain their high performance. Tiger Woods is probably the hardest working golfer out there even with his talent. There is no free lunch. Strong work ethics beat talent with no drive. Government shouldn't set policy to discriminate towards people who put in the work.

Also it's very much the American culture to push kids to do well. If you don't put in enough work in practice, don't expect travel teams to give you a spot when there are other kids who have "prep"-ed. There are all kinds of academies for kids prepping for travel sports.

Look, I am an Indian and understand exactly what you are saying.

I am against complete lottery which is not a good idea for one reason. Say there are really 10 really talented kids per year in this area, the lottery is going to miss 9 of them (assuming 500 kids are selected and 5000 kids apply). That to me is a really stupid thing. I really dont think there are more than say 50 kids who really really "need" TJ in these sense that they would excel in a way they would not at their local HS. Dont want to miss those kids.

The problem with "strong work ethics" is say someone is practicing for TJ from 5th grade on - and 100% it is the parents who are making this decision about "strong work ethics", they would get in just because they practiced it so much over a kid who might have a real strong work ethic, but would not be going to a 3 year test taking class. Their strong work ethic would be much more widespread over many things but it would not really help them with the TJ test. I know kids who are in both categories.

I went to the first two rallies against the merit lottery. I was there in the picture in front of TJ and at the Gatehouse. I do understand both for and against the changes.

I really did not like the way the board rushed the changes in the middle of a pandemic trying to take advantage of the current political climate, the anti Asian and racist undertone of the VA education secretary, etc. But there are equally valid points for making changes, not the way they have done of course.

The kids who did 3 year testing class and nothing else will not be successful in HS and beyond. They are a small percentage (you need to pass the holistic review after the first cut based on test), and more parents are realizing base schools are the better option for the "mediocre" over-prepped kids. About 10% kids move back to their base school after first year. To identify that category kids, teacher recommendations will help. You know what else FCPS eliminated - teachers' recommendation. So that's not the problem that FCPS is addressing. FCPS doesn't like the racial makeup of the school (Indians are overrepresented) and wants to rebalance it based on race.

FCPS eliminated teacher recommendations because there exists a substantial amount of research to indicate that they are subject to bias based on race (in some cases, harming Asians as well based on some of the same foul stereotypes you see from some of the less-educated on this board). In the end, I believe that they will realize after this year that it's too difficult to contextualize the report cards without the teacher narratives and you will see a re-engineered recommendation form for next year's Class of 2026.

It is also the case that teachers are under an incredible strain this year that is only getting worse with hybrid learning, and the number of applications could very well skyrocket this year. With no semifinal cut to bring the number down to 1200 or so, the number of recommendations that teachers would have to write would be staggering. Additionally, those recommendations would be relatively incomplete because a huge chunk of their time period to evaluate the student would have been under these substandard distance learning conditions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the large numbers of kids who did not need to prep for that test (including Asians) and found it easy now have a much lower chance of admissions. Those are the kids who end up loving TJ.

This. You need talent to do well. Pro-FCPS Posters here refusing to give TJ kids credit for their natural talent are showing their own prejudice without facts. To the contrary, TJ kids have gone on doing very well in HS, colleges, and professionally. It's in the government's interest to identify those talented kids and develop them.

You also need strong work ethics to do well at a high level. Even MJ and LBJ need to put in some practice to maintain their high performance. Tiger Woods is probably the hardest working golfer out there even with his talent. There is no free lunch. Strong work ethics beat talent with no drive. Government shouldn't set policy to discriminate towards people who put in the work.

Also it's very much the American culture to push kids to do well. If you don't put in enough work in practice, don't expect travel teams to give you a spot when there are other kids who have "prep"-ed. There are all kinds of academies for kids prepping for travel sports.

Look, I am an Indian and understand exactly what you are saying.

I am against complete lottery which is not a good idea for one reason. Say there are really 10 really talented kids per year in this area, the lottery is going to miss 9 of them (assuming 500 kids are selected and 5000 kids apply). That to me is a really stupid thing. I really dont think there are more than say 50 kids who really really "need" TJ in these sense that they would excel in a way they would not at their local HS. Dont want to miss those kids.

The problem with "strong work ethics" is say someone is practicing for TJ from 5th grade on - and 100% it is the parents who are making this decision about "strong work ethics", they would get in just because they practiced it so much over a kid who might have a real strong work ethic, but would not be going to a 3 year test taking class. Their strong work ethic would be much more widespread over many things but it would not really help them with the TJ test. I know kids who are in both categories.

I went to the first two rallies against the merit lottery. I was there in the picture in front of TJ and at the Gatehouse. I do understand both for and against the changes.

I really did not like the way the board rushed the changes in the middle of a pandemic trying to take advantage of the current political climate, the anti Asian and racist undertone of the VA education secretary, etc. But there are equally valid points for making changes, not the way they have done of course.

The kids who did 3 year testing class and nothing else will not be successful in HS and beyond. They are a small percentage (you need to pass the holistic review after the first cut based on test), and more parents are realizing base schools are the better option for the "mediocre" over-prepped kids. About 10% kids move back to their base school after first year. To identify that category kids, teacher recommendations will help. You know what else FCPS eliminated - teachers' recommendation. So that's not the problem that FCPS is addressing. FCPS doesn't like the racial makeup of the school (Indians are overrepresented) and wants to rebalance it based on race.

FCPS eliminated teacher recommendations because there exists a substantial amount of research to indicate that they are subject to bias based on race (in some cases, harming Asians as well based on some of the same foul stereotypes you see from some of the less-educated on this board). In the end, I believe that they will realize after this year that it's too difficult to contextualize the report cards without the teacher narratives and you will see a re-engineered recommendation form for next year's Class of 2026.

It is also the case that teachers are under an incredible strain this year that is only getting worse with hybrid learning, and the number of applications could very well skyrocket this year. With no semifinal cut to bring the number down to 1200 or so, the number of recommendations that teachers would have to write would be staggering. Additionally, those recommendations would be relatively incomplete because a huge chunk of their time period to evaluate the student would have been under these substandard distance learning conditions.

So complicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the large numbers of kids who did not need to prep for that test (including Asians) and found it easy now have a much lower chance of admissions. Those are the kids who end up loving TJ.

This. You need talent to do well. Pro-FCPS Posters here refusing to give TJ kids credit for their natural talent are showing their own prejudice without facts. To the contrary, TJ kids have gone on doing very well in HS, colleges, and professionally. It's in the government's interest to identify those talented kids and develop them.

You also need strong work ethics to do well at a high level. Even MJ and LBJ need to put in some practice to maintain their high performance. Tiger Woods is probably the hardest working golfer out there even with his talent. There is no free lunch. Strong work ethics beat talent with no drive. Government shouldn't set policy to discriminate towards people who put in the work.

Also it's very much the American culture to push kids to do well. If you don't put in enough work in practice, don't expect travel teams to give you a spot when there are other kids who have "prep"-ed. There are all kinds of academies for kids prepping for travel sports.

Look, I am an Indian and understand exactly what you are saying.

I am against complete lottery which is not a good idea for one reason. Say there are really 10 really talented kids per year in this area, the lottery is going to miss 9 of them (assuming 500 kids are selected and 5000 kids apply). That to me is a really stupid thing. I really dont think there are more than say 50 kids who really really "need" TJ in these sense that they would excel in a way they would not at their local HS. Dont want to miss those kids.

The problem with "strong work ethics" is say someone is practicing for TJ from 5th grade on - and 100% it is the parents who are making this decision about "strong work ethics", they would get in just because they practiced it so much over a kid who might have a real strong work ethic, but would not be going to a 3 year test taking class. Their strong work ethic would be much more widespread over many things but it would not really help them with the TJ test. I know kids who are in both categories.

I went to the first two rallies against the merit lottery. I was there in the picture in front of TJ and at the Gatehouse. I do understand both for and against the changes.

I really did not like the way the board rushed the changes in the middle of a pandemic trying to take advantage of the current political climate, the anti Asian and racist undertone of the VA education secretary, etc. But there are equally valid points for making changes, not the way they have done of course.

The kids who did 3 year testing class and nothing else will not be successful in HS and beyond. They are a small percentage (you need to pass the holistic review after the first cut based on test), and more parents are realizing base schools are the better option for the "mediocre" over-prepped kids. About 10% kids move back to their base school after first year. To identify that category kids, teacher recommendations will help. You know what else FCPS eliminated - teachers' recommendation. So that's not the problem that FCPS is addressing. FCPS doesn't like the racial makeup of the school (Indians are overrepresented) and wants to rebalance it based on race.

One of the smartest people that think about problems very broadly and have a long track record of zeroing in one the crux of the issue is Charlie Munger. Here is what he has to say about incentives:

“Never, ever, think about something else when you should be thinking about the power of incentives.”
— Charlie Munger

"Well, I think I’ve been in the top 5% of my age cohort all my life in understanding the power of incentives, and all my life I’ve underestimated it. And never a year passes but I get some surprise that pushes my limit a little farther." — Charlie Munger

If you think about it, this explains both the behavior of prepping and also FCPS.

FCPS board and Brabrand are a bunch of hacks, absolutely 3rd rate people, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. Politicians who see an advantage in taking racist causes.

As I keep repeating, I am in favor of reforms for all the reasons as the kind gentleman keeps posting.

[Anonymous]

Even the greatest tool we have for social justice, the United States military, uses the asvab/afqt to determine what jobs members can qualify to train in.

Regrettably the same gaps still exist in the military, with white and asian soldiers qualifying for more technical roles at a higher rate than othe demographics. Though blacks and whites who score similarly tend to have similar incomes in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overwhelming public evidence exists that the new TJ admissions process was adopted with the purpose of disadvantaging Asian-American students and reducing Asian American enrollment at TJ. As such, these changes violate the Equal Protection Clause.

Helping URMs is a noble goal, but you cannot be biased against Asian Americans in the process. The board essentially gerrymandered the application process to kneecap Asian Americans. The intent is clear.

The application process needs to be redesigned by a board that doesn't hold stereotypes against Asian Americans. The board didn't even pretend to be neutral.

By definition increasing URM numbers at TJ will decrease Asian and White numbers- the math is really simple there. You're basically saying that desegregation is a per se violation of the equal protection clause because it necessarily disadvantages one race- good luck with that

Putting in maximum quotas per school, when most of the Asians are coming from a handful of schools, is very disproportionately impacting Asians.
They could have put in a per school quota and left the rest of the seats open, thus still allowing at least half of the Asian students in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The middle school quota system is already being gamed this school year. Beyond easy during DL. Families have gotten a different address through various means (renting, buying investment property, address of friend). I hope that the TJ admissions staff verifies that the child is actually living at the address, but that will never happen. The child does not even have to be in Fairfax County, Virginia or the US to apply this year. They only need an address and a VPN to make it look like they are logging in from Fairfax County.

If you're a public school student, this isn't going to work. The TJ Admissions Office is going to have their actual residential data from the school that they attend through liaising with their Student Services office - you have to live within center boundaries to attend those AAP centers. If those are mismatched, it will be a huge red flag and may very well disqualify the student.

Only way this would have actually worked is to switch schools, and there is little evidence of a mass flight from Carson or Longfellow to say, Twain or Sandburg. That hasn't happened. What is most likely is that a lot of families just gamed their way right out of the process.

I think you have your head in the sand. It’s apparently not hard to fool the front office staff with an address when enrolling. 1.5% is not a big number - it would not take huge number of families gaming the system to have an impact.

What do you mean by "fool the front office staff"? Every student at every public middle school has an address on file, and that address is used to determine their eligibility to attend that school. For centers, the boundaries are wider because there are fewer of them.

You have to submit an address to apply to TJ, and that address is going to be cross-checked against the address that is on file at the middle school. If they don't match, an investigation will ensue.

The only way to "game the system" for public school students would require them to actually change schools. And again, it's not like there is some hard and fast criteria that the Admissions Office is using to determine that top 1.5%.

The TJ liaison in the Student Services department at each middle school is going to know which students transferred in either over the summer or in, say, October when the geographic weighting was introduced. They are going to share that information with the Admissions Office.

I doubt the TJ liaison will do any such thing. Because of DL it would be much easier for a family to switch to a different school.
I know of people who did this in Loudoun. It's not clear if they actually moved away from Stone Hill, or are just using DL and pretending. Either way, they are going for an automatic spot in a western Loudoun(white) school.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous
This is a great idea as long as the admissions test is one that cannot be prepared for.

But also, there's nothing about being Asian that disadvantages you in a holistic review process. It's not like admissions reviewers go "eww, this person is Asian, that's gross".

The evidence at Harvard, suggests that's exactly what they do. Lower ratings on personality and other subjective factors. The admissions office has an eye on certain racial quotas, and does whatever massaging they can to get there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, what? Do you have a cite for this?

I am super pro-reform, but there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that there's a significant number of TJ families who are here illegally. There are several who are here just for TJ, but not illegally.

FCPS can't ask the immigration status. But It's very common that the parents of students in FCPS are here illegally. 40% of undocumented immigrants in this country are Asian, https://asiasociety.org/northern-california/not-just-latino-issue-undocumented-asians-america.

That does not mean that 40% of Asians are illegal immigrants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While most posters on this forum are driven by a sense of propriety and not malice - casual anti-Asian racism can lead you here

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/16/us/metro-atlanta-shootings/index.html

That had nothing to do with race, but is being hyped by media who want to sell a white racism against Asians narrative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It is worth noting that the folks who advocate for the status quo with respect to elite school admissions find a lot of friends in the Trumpist community.

It was the Trump Administration that sued Harvard, threatened to sue Yale over their admissions policies, and also charged Princeton with racial discrimination based on the admission of its President.
So they were not interested in the status quo in elite school admissions.

Biden Administration has dropped all of these.

[Anonymous]

You don’t have to know that the shootings were motivated by race to know that harassment and violence against Asian Americans has skyrocketed.