When the kids go to college, I'm out of this loveless and affectionless marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men are very narrow minded. I have come to realize that nothing, not even family, means anything to (most) of them. But what do you do when it is all about their sex and you have nothing but chores and children, no energy and little desire for sex? What do you do when a man gives you absolutely no emotional and moral support, expects the chores and family to be taken care of (even though they don't care about these things?) then adds more chores to your list by expecting you to take care of his sexual needs at the end of the day?

Same poster. Sex shouldn't be a chore but it becomes one when all of the support is gone. I love sex but not really into it lately because it is that one more piece of me taken with nothing given back in return. So it is not that I am not willing to give but once everything is taken and nothing is given in return, not even a pat on the back or hug in moments of feeling overwhelmed. WTF is a woman supposed to do?

This is the classic example of a man who wants to have a sex partner without actually BEING a life partner. You want a life partner, and don't want to be a sex partner unless it's with your life partner.
I think couples therapy is definitely needed at that point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Men are very narrow minded. I have come to realize that nothing, not even family, means anything to (most) of them. But what do you do when it is all about their sex and you have nothing but chores and children, no energy and little desire for sex? What do you do when a man gives you absolutely no emotional and moral support, expects the chores and family to be taken care of (even though they don't care about these things?) then adds more chores to your list by expecting you to take care of his sexual needs at the end of the day?

Obviously that is a major problem. But I would hope that it would also give you empathy for the men who are working hard to provide for their families, providing emotional support to their spouse, and holding their end up with the home and the kids only to find that all of this, and more, does nothing to help them get their own highest priorities addressed. At some point, that can't be sustained for a lifetime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men are very narrow minded. I have come to realize that nothing, not even family, means anything to (most) of them. But what do you do when it is all about their sex and you have nothing but chores and children, no energy and little desire for sex? What do you do when a man gives you absolutely no emotional and moral support, expects the chores and family to be taken care of (even though they don't care about these things?) then adds more chores to your list by expecting you to take care of his sexual needs at the end of the day?

Obviously that is a major problem. But I would hope that it would also give you empathy for the men who are working hard to provide for their families, providing emotional support to their spouse, and holding their end up with the home and the kids only to find that all of this, and more, does nothing to help them get their own highest priorities addressed. At some point, that can't be sustained for a lifetime.

Empathy? Huh? That sounds great wish I had the emotional support and a little empathy.

[Anonymous]

Sex is a basic biological need. Both spouses need to provide that to each other. There are many DHs with no/low libido on this forum. I feel that a person is failing their marital duty if they are not a sexual partner.

Except for illness and medical condition that prevents full sexual relations between spouses, there is no excuse for not having sex. You can use alternate means to bring sexual relief to your partner, in most dire situations as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here again. My need for love and affection does not mean I'm shallow. It means I'm human.

Thanks for your constructive advice, but BTDT. Same answer for the "have you talked to her about this?" questions. Of course I've talked to her about it. Her approach is basically: I'll see what I can do, but in the mean time, just live with it. That's been going on for years.

Your final questions, about the grass being greener, are good ones. But I'm not being hasty. I haven't done anything. And if I do, it's a decade in the future.

I was your wife, once upon a time. I would bet dollars to donuts she doesn't understand how important this is to you ... at all.

I didn't understand how intrinsic sex and physical intimacy were to my husband's self-worth. He would try to tell me -- and it literally made no sense to me. I just could not understand why it was so important. I was confident that he loved me based on what he did to help around the house, make my life easier, interacted with my family, etc. I couldn't figure out why he didn't realize how much I worked (I was breadwinner) and how tired I was (we had twins) and why I just needed some sleep more than sex and this was just a phase.

My DH would have said the same things about me that you say about your wife. Great life partner. Best friend. Roommate. So he satisfied his sexual needs elsewhere. When I found out, shit hit the fan. We separated immediately and were divorced 3 years later. There was never going to be a reconciliation as I do not take well to betrayal.

A few years later, I heard my Ex's story through another person's experience - and it finally clicked. My friend told me how his wife constantly rejected him and used sex as a weapon (I never did that.) and I could see how hurt he was. And it all just clicked about what my Ex had been telling me. I also figured out that it wasn't because I had a low libido -- I just wasn't that attracted to my Ex -- and I didn't understand the importance of physical compatibility in a long term relationship. That wasn't something I considered on the top 10 list of things to discuss before you get married.

If you started off strong in the sex department -- it's worth working towards saving your marriage. Get into counseling for yourself and as a couple. Have someone help her see. Also, make her sexual satisfaction your priority. One of the things that turned me off about my Ex was 1) he would take too long and wasn't even paying attention to whether I was enjoying myself and 2) he would criticize or be dissatisfied with what I did or didn't like and even how I orgasmed. Everything in sex was all about him.

If you've always been a bit of a mismatch -- then go now. Leave. Find someone who will be a better match for you. Let her do the same. It will be difficult, but hopefully your children will grow to appreciate and see a good model of a relationship in your next one.

FWIW - since my ex - I love sex. It's amazing. My BF and I are much better suited to each other though. Wisdom through experience. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sex is a basic biological need. Both spouses need to provide that to each other. There are many DHs with no/low libido on this forum. I feel that a person is failing their marital duty if they are not a sexual partner.

Except for illness and medical condition that prevents full sexual relations between spouses, there is no excuse for not having sex. You can use alternate means to bring sexual relief to your partner, in most dire situations as well.

I am not sure that sex is a biological need for everyone. So I do not agree with your assumption. But, in your opinion, sex is the only thing that matters to you. See how narrow minded that sounds. What about raising a family, building a home, having fun, traveling, being close, etc... Is there nothing equally important in your life?

[Anonymous]

When people say that they do not find their partner attractive or they are too tired for sex. I hear that. And after hearing that I have only one recommendation- you fake it till you make it. If you find sexual pleasure - you will want sex. And marriage provides the easy access to that pleasurable sex. But to find sexual pleasure, you also need to know what feels good. Women can use modern medicine, sex toys, erotic literature to be in the mood and use masturbation to become sexually fit. Men can also use Viagra and whatever they need to be sexually functional. Sex is not like eating right or exercising that the pleasure and benefit is delayed. Sex provides instant pleasure. So, it is also a matter of training your body and mind to crave sex. Once you crave sex, you will crave sex with your partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again. My need for love and affection does not mean I'm shallow. It means I'm human.

Thanks for your constructive advice, but BTDT. Same answer for the "have you talked to her about this?" questions. Of course I've talked to her about it. Her approach is basically: I'll see what I can do, but in the mean time, just live with it. That's been going on for years.

Your final questions, about the grass being greener, are good ones. But I'm not being hasty. I haven't done anything. And if I do, it's a decade in the future.

I was your wife, once upon a time. I would bet dollars to donuts she doesn't understand how important this is to you ... at all.

I didn't understand how intrinsic sex and physical intimacy were to my husband's self-worth. He would try to tell me -- and it literally made no sense to me. I just could not understand why it was so important. I was confident that he loved me based on what he did to help around the house, make my life easier, interacted with my family, etc. I couldn't figure out why he didn't realize how much I worked (I was breadwinner) and how tired I was (we had twins) and why I just needed some sleep more than sex and this was just a phase.

My DH would have said the same things about me that you say about your wife. Great life partner. Best friend. Roommate. So he satisfied his sexual needs elsewhere. When I found out, shit hit the fan. We separated immediately and were divorced 3 years later. There was never going to be a reconciliation as I do not take well to betrayal.

A few years later, I heard my Ex's story through another person's experience - and it finally clicked. My friend told me how his wife constantly rejected him and used sex as a weapon (I never did that.) and I could see how hurt he was. And it all just clicked about what my Ex had been telling me. I also figured out that it wasn't because I had a low libido -- I just wasn't that attracted to my Ex -- and I didn't understand the importance of physical compatibility in a long term relationship. That wasn't something I considered on the top 10 list of things to discuss before you get married.

If you started off strong in the sex department -- it's worth working towards saving your marriage. Get into counseling for yourself and as a couple. Have someone help her see. Also, make her sexual satisfaction your priority. One of the things that turned me off about my Ex was 1) he would take too long and wasn't even paying attention to whether I was enjoying myself and 2) he would criticize or be dissatisfied with what I did or didn't like and even how I orgasmed. Everything in sex was all about him.

If you've always been a bit of a mismatch -- then go now. Leave. Find someone who will be a better match for you. Let her do the same. It will be difficult, but hopefully your children will grow to appreciate and see a good model of a relationship in your next one.

FWIW - since my ex - I love sex. It's amazing. My BF and I are much better suited to each other though. Wisdom through experience. Good luck.

NP here: thanks for this thoughtful post. I sort of think I may be on the other side of this, but I am not sure. We've discussed, but the issue tends to get evaded or swept under the rug. How would you have reacted if your ex asked you about this explicitly? And what are the signs of this kind of fundamental lack of attraction, in your opinion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sex is a basic biological need. Both spouses need to provide that to each other. There are many DHs with no/low libido on this forum. I feel that a person is failing their marital duty if they are not a sexual partner.

Except for illness and medical condition that prevents full sexual relations between spouses, there is no excuse for not having sex. You can use alternate means to bring sexual relief to your partner, in most dire situations as well.

I am not sure that sex is a biological need for everyone. So I do not agree with your assumption. But, in your opinion, sex is the only thing that matters to you. See how narrow minded that sounds. What about raising a family, building a home, having fun, traveling, being close, etc... Is there nothing equally important in your life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, there very often IS a medical reason. But sometimes there's nothing you can do about that medical reason. If you're a woman of childbearing age and your testosterone has taken a dive, your doctor isn't going to prescribe testosterone. So then you're left trying to make up for your lack of testosterone. And hopefully, your DH will be more understanding than this jerk.

Why won't your doctor prescribe testosterone? (Honest question -- I don't know anything about the medical realities, but it seems like if lack of testosterone is causing your problem, then a doctor should prescribe testosterone.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When people say that they do not find their partner attractive or they are too tired for sex. I hear that. And after hearing that I have only one recommendation- you fake it till you make it. If you find sexual pleasure - you will want sex. And marriage provides the easy access to that pleasurable sex. But to find sexual pleasure, you also need to know what feels good. Women can use modern medicine, sex toys, erotic literature to be in the mood and use masturbation to become sexually fit. Men can also use Viagra and whatever they need to be sexually functional. Sex is not like eating right or exercising that the pleasure and benefit is delayed. Sex provides instant pleasure. So, it is also a matter of training your body and mind to crave sex. Once you crave sex, you will crave sex with your partner.

You are just such a creep. And yes, we know it's you, the same person who has been gaslighting all over this thread. And you need to get a life and maybe go jerk one out to relieve all that sexual pent up tension- whatever it takes to get you away from dcum for a couple hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people say that they do not find their partner attractive or they are too tired for sex. I hear that. And after hearing that I have only one recommendation- you fake it till you make it. If you find sexual pleasure - you will want sex. And marriage provides the easy access to that pleasurable sex. But to find sexual pleasure, you also need to know what feels good. Women can use modern medicine, sex toys, erotic literature to be in the mood and use masturbation to become sexually fit. Men can also use Viagra and whatever they need to be sexually functional. Sex is not like eating right or exercising that the pleasure and benefit is delayed. Sex provides instant pleasure. So, it is also a matter of training your body and mind to crave sex. Once you crave sex, you will crave sex with your partner.

You are just such a creep. And yes, we know it's you, the same person who has been gaslighting all over this thread. And you need to get a life and maybe go jerk one out to relieve all that sexual pent up tension- whatever it takes to get you away from dcum for a couple hours.

Is that the royal we who knows these things? Seems odd that someone would presume to speak for others when making sock-puppet allegations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people say that they do not find their partner attractive or they are too tired for sex. I hear that. And after hearing that I have only one recommendation- you fake it till you make it. If you find sexual pleasure - you will want sex. And marriage provides the easy access to that pleasurable sex. But to find sexual pleasure, you also need to know what feels good. Women can use modern medicine, sex toys, erotic literature to be in the mood and use masturbation to become sexually fit. Men can also use Viagra and whatever they need to be sexually functional. Sex is not like eating right or exercising that the pleasure and benefit is delayed. Sex provides instant pleasure. So, it is also a matter of training your body and mind to crave sex. Once you crave sex, you will crave sex with your partner.

You are just such a creep. And yes, we know it's you, the same person who has been gaslighting all over this thread. And you need to get a life and maybe go jerk one out to relieve all that sexual pent up tension- whatever it takes to get you away from dcum for a couple hours.

Is that the royal we who knows these things? Seems odd that someone would presume to speak for others when making sock-puppet allegations.

NP you are creepy PP and yes in the stinky feet kind of way!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sex is a basic biological need. Both spouses need to provide that to each other. There are many DHs with no/low libido on this forum. I feel that a person is failing their marital duty if they are not a sexual partner.

Except for illness and medical condition that prevents full sexual relations between spouses, there is no excuse for not having sex. You can use alternate means to bring sexual relief to your partner, in most dire situations as well.

I am not sure that sex is a biological need for everyone. So I do not agree with your assumption. But, in your opinion, sex is the only thing that matters to you. See how narrow minded that sounds. What about raising a family, building a home, having fun, traveling, being close, etc... Is there nothing equally important in your life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people say that they do not find their partner attractive or they are too tired for sex. I hear that. And after hearing that I have only one recommendation- you fake it till you make it. If you find sexual pleasure - you will want sex. And marriage provides the easy access to that pleasurable sex. But to find sexual pleasure, you also need to know what feels good. Women can use modern medicine, sex toys, erotic literature to be in the mood and use masturbation to become sexually fit. Men can also use Viagra and whatever they need to be sexually functional. Sex is not like eating right or exercising that the pleasure and benefit is delayed. Sex provides instant pleasure. So, it is also a matter of training your body and mind to crave sex. Once you crave sex, you will crave sex with your partner.

You are just such a creep. And yes, we know it's you, the same person who has been gaslighting all over this thread. And you need to get a life and maybe go jerk one out to relieve all that sexual pent up tension- whatever it takes to get you away from dcum for a couple hours.

Is that the royal we who knows these things? Seems odd that someone would presume to speak for others when making sock-puppet allegations.

NP you are creepy PP and yes in the stinky feet kind of way!

Believe what you want if it helps you sleep at night, but I'm a different guy.