Girls, 13 and 15, Charged With Murder After Armed Carjacking Near Nationals Park

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Didn't a girl just stab another girl in the back around L'Enfant Plaza, too? I am increasingly worried about our city's children participating in violence.

Karl Racine and Charles Allen should maybe at some point be asked the tough questions about the rampant juvenile crime in the District.

They should focus on the rampant inequality that exists in the city/country and the rampant lack of opportunities for people in certain communities.

DP. Can't they do both?

These kinds of responses to discussions about increased violent crime are getting really old. Lack of opportunity and inequality are issues that should be addressed, certainly, but they are not excuses for criminal behavior. There are plenty of people who face inequality and lack of opportunity but don't kill people while trying to steal their cars.

So basically you are paying lip service to inequality, but when rubber hits the road, you are going to ignore it and throw the book at two young teens who almost certainly haven't gotten a single break in life and will have any chance at a decent future disappear with a jail sentence that will only harden them further.

Unbelievable. And his family is supposed to just supposed to shrug their shoulders? I'm sick of non-violent law abiding citizens having to pay for someone else's upbringing with their lives. That goes for every race, religion and creed. I'm sick of it!! And to lose your live to a little peer-pressured pishika 13 year old FFS! You know what? Too bad. Her mistake should cost her her life . In jail. Or maybe her mom's life for raising a monster.,

Well, thankfully the DC Youth Act makes sure that bloodthirsty tendencies of people like you will not be enacted and we won't just toss away two young lives for a mistake that went far beyond what they intended.

Hold on...we are chalking this up to a "mistake"
Seriously these two girls set out to hijack a car with a weapon. This does not qualify as a mistake.


Seriously. That poor driver. I bet he didn’t have the best upbringing but look a him just trying to earn an honest living. I would lose no sleep over those girls losing the rest of their life to jail and a felony conviction but they’ll just get a slap on the wrist I’m sure. They are worthless and harmful to society. Will never ever amount to anything.

[Anonymous]

I am at the point where I just can’t stay long-term in a city where this happens. Regardless of whether it’s entirely these girls’ “fault” for their upbringing, or their parents’ fault or the system’s fault. At this point, even if no one is to blame, I can’t live in a place this toxic. I wish I had the strength to save everybody but I need to save myself and my family.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Do not watch the video. I can’t believe it’s allowed to be shown. It’s awful.

Agreed like other PP said. You don’t need to watch it. People were trying to help before they drove off. Honestly I can’t believe more people were hurt. That poor man and his family.

I disagree, anyone who is arguing for leniency for these girls, justifying lenient sentences for juveniles in general, or is feeling persuaded by those arguments should at least have the decency to actually grapple with the crime itself. Because it’s too easy in the abstract to say something that sounds good. Watch what they did before you start weighing in on the Youth Crime Act or whatever. Let’s be real about what it at stake here.

[Anonymous]

At a young age children are expected to understand the lesson around not taking what is not yours. However you slice it girls have demonstrated they are a menace to the safety of others.

There is no blaming society here. My father grew up literally starved for food. He stole trimmings from other peoples gardens to plant vegetables for his family. 2 girls going to navy yard with the intention of stealing a vehicle is not a Robin Hood story. Wow

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not watch the video. I can’t believe it’s allowed to be shown. It’s awful.

Agreed like other PP said. You don’t need to watch it. People were trying to help before they drove off. Honestly I can’t believe more people were hurt. That poor man and his family.

I disagree, anyone who is arguing for leniency for these girls, justifying lenient sentences for juveniles in general, or is feeling persuaded by those arguments should at least have the decency to actually grapple with the crime itself. Because it’s too easy in the abstract to say something that sounds good. Watch what they did before you start weighing in on the Youth Crime Act or whatever. Let’s be real about what it at stake here.

I watched the video multiple times. I still don't believe in a life sentence without parole for juveniles. I would also like for them to be evaluated by a psychiatrist to see if they need any kind of medication.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So conservatives who did NOT think the Atlanta shootings were racially motivated, now believe this crime was racially motivated?

Whether in a mental institution or prison, whether behavior is result of mental illness or sociopath, all 3 and the Colorado shooter should be held accountable--as should all who commit horrific crimes.

Sure. But my point is that conservatives are angling this as a hate crime against a South Asian man by two black girls but they refused to consider the Atlanta shootings a hate crime.

Maybe these teen girls were having a bad day or bad year because of the pandemic.

PP here. We don't know if either/both are hate crimes or nor, but I'll agree that both situations require significant consequences. Personally, I think it's possible that neither situation is a "hate crime."

They're juveniles and their intent was to steal a car, not kill a man. It's vehicular manslaughter and they are already cooperating for a lighter sentence. They should be out before 30.

I'm sure they are.

Of course they are cooperating. It’s on video for all to see. Thank goodness for the man who taped this. Not a lot of alibi wiggle room now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So conservatives who did NOT think the Atlanta shootings were racially motivated, now believe this crime was racially motivated?

Whether in a mental institution or prison, whether behavior is result of mental illness or sociopath, all 3 and the Colorado shooter should be held accountable--as should all who commit horrific crimes.

Sure. But my point is that conservatives are angling this as a hate crime against a South Asian man by two black girls but they refused to consider the Atlanta shootings a hate crime.

Maybe these teen girls were having a bad day or bad year because of the pandemic.

PP here. We don't know if either/both are hate crimes or nor, but I'll agree that both situations require significant consequences. Personally, I think it's possible that neither situation is a "hate crime."

They're juveniles and their intent was to steal a car, not kill a man. It's vehicular manslaughter and they are already cooperating for a lighter sentence. They should be out before 30.

I'm sure they are.

Of course they are cooperating. It’s on video for all to see. Thank goodness for the man who taped this. Not a lot of alibi wiggle room now.

People commit crimes on tape all the time and still don't cooperate or plead guilty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is pretty clearly second degree murder; it’s not a felony murder scenario, and it’s not vehicular manslaughter. It’s depraved indifference to great risk to human life. It also doesn’t matter what they are charged with, my understanding of DC law is that no material prison sentences are possible given their ages. They will be out by their mid-20s, if that, because they can be “rehabilitated.” I certainly hope that is not the case, but fear it is.

why is it not felony murder? I think DC defines 1st degree murder to include any death in the comission of a kidnaping or theft.

[Anonymous]

I sincerely don't believe people like this can be rehabilitated. If at 13/15 you don't understand what you're doing is wrong, then something in your nature is broken. You don't need parenting or a happy childhood to tell you that stealing, being violent, and playing with another person's life is reprehensible. You either have inherent values, or you don't.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is seriously sad. A 13 or 15yo is so Immature. They do not think!!! They had the short sighted goal of having fun with bragging rights of stealing a car, and a man was MURDERED for their foolishness!

They definitely should be punished! Problem is, even as a felony Manslaughter they will not get more than 30 years. And after those 30 years they will still have half a life left and still be of child bearing age, and because of their circumstances be associated with other felons.... as friends, family, etc. Having been incarcerated over the previous 30 years, including their formative early adult years, they would likely not be prepared (or able) to be good parents to their likely delinquent offspring. And the cycle continues!

But , if we let them “off” with lighter sentence, the result won’t be much better.

But they DID think. They thought to get a taser weapon. They heard an older gentleman and saw him hanging onto the car. That's not the same as a true accident or a teen being impulsive or over correcting when driving on the hwy. I've worked with a lot of kids from impoverished backgrounds and drug or alcohol addicted parents. I do not think the behavior of these teens represents just "not thinking." [b]

So what do you think the behavior represents? Please say the quiet part out loud.

PP here. Not sure what you want me to say. I think their behavior shows they planned a carjacking.

I agree they planned a carjacking. I don’t think they planned a death.

fwiw lack of advance “planning” doesn’t mean it’s not murder. the necessary intent to be guilty of murder can be made in an instant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is seriously sad. A 13 or 15yo is so Immature. They do not think!!! They had the short sighted goal of having fun with bragging rights of stealing a car, and a man was MURDERED for their foolishness!

They definitely should be punished! Problem is, even as a felony Manslaughter they will not get more than 30 years. And after those 30 years they will still have half a life left and still be of child bearing age, and because of their circumstances be associated with other felons.... as friends, family, etc. Having been incarcerated over the previous 30 years, including their formative early adult years, they would likely not be prepared (or able) to be good parents to their likely delinquent offspring. And the cycle continues!

But , if we let them “off” with lighter sentence, the result won’t be much better.

But they DID think. They thought to get a taser weapon. They heard an older gentleman and saw him hanging onto the car. That's not the same as a true accident or a teen being impulsive or over correcting when driving on the hwy. I've worked with a lot of kids from impoverished backgrounds and drug or alcohol addicted parents. I do not think the behavior of these teens represents just "not thinking." [b]

So what do you think the behavior represents? Please say the quiet part out loud.

PP here. Not sure what you want me to say. I think their behavior shows they planned a carjacking.

I agree they planned a carjacking. I don’t think they planned a death.

If you have a weapon, a carjacking is definitely in the category where you did plan a death. You might get away without one, and the death might be your own! But a carjacking is unquestionably a deadly situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rich and privileged people: “ just let the thieves take your car/phone/wallet/money, etc. Your safety is all that matters...”

Other people, especially someone who’s driving for Uber eats as an income: “I can’t let these kids take my car, I will never get it back. My insurance won’t cover this. There goes my job, there goes my income, what will I do? I can’t replace this. I can’t get another job, especially without the car. I can’t afford this. I can’t let this happen. My family is depending on me.”

Think outside your bubble. Sure, NBD for rich people to just “hand it over”. SMH.

This.

No way. It’s easier to give up your stuff if you’re rich, of course it is!! Of course it would be a huge hardship for him to have lost his car even temporarily. But he would be alive. That’s the important thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rich and privileged people: “ just let the thieves take your car/phone/wallet/money, etc. Your safety is all that matters...”

Other people, especially someone who’s driving for Uber eats as an income: “I can’t let these kids take my car, I will never get it back. My insurance won’t cover this. There goes my job, there goes my income, what will I do? I can’t replace this. I can’t get another job, especially without the car. I can’t afford this. I can’t let this happen. My family is depending on me.”

Think outside your bubble. Sure, NBD for rich people to just “hand it over”. SMH.

This.

No way. It’s easier to give up your stuff if you’re rich, of course it is!! Of course it would be a huge hardship for him to have lost his car even temporarily. But he would be alive. That’s the important thing.

If you live in an area where the laws work in favor of those who commit crimes, I guess you learn to think this way in order to survive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is seriously sad. A 13 or 15yo is so Immature. They do not think!!! They had the short sighted goal of having fun with bragging rights of stealing a car, and a man was MURDERED for their foolishness!

They definitely should be punished! Problem is, even as a felony Manslaughter they will not get more than 30 years. And after those 30 years they will still have half a life left and still be of child bearing age, and because of their circumstances be associated with other felons.... as friends, family, etc. Having been incarcerated over the previous 30 years, including their formative early adult years, they would likely not be prepared (or able) to be good parents to their likely delinquent offspring. And the cycle continues!

But , if we let them “off” with lighter sentence, the result won’t be much better.

But they DID think. They thought to get a taser weapon. They heard an older gentleman and saw him hanging onto the car. That's not the same as a true accident or a teen being impulsive or over correcting when driving on the hwy. I've worked with a lot of kids from impoverished backgrounds and drug or alcohol addicted parents. I do not think the behavior of these teens represents just "not thinking." [b]

So what do you think the behavior represents? Please say the quiet part out loud.

PP here. Not sure what you want me to say. I think their behavior shows they planned a carjacking.

I agree they planned a carjacking. I don’t think they planned a death.

fwiw lack of advance “planning” doesn’t mean it’s not murder. the necessary intent to be guilty of murder can be made in an instant.

+1 it’s not that different than robbing a convenience store with the plan the guy will hand over the money and then he doesn’t and ends up getting shot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rich and privileged people: “ just let the thieves take your car/phone/wallet/money, etc. Your safety is all that matters...”

Other people, especially someone who’s driving for Uber eats as an income: “I can’t let these kids take my car, I will never get it back. My insurance won’t cover this. There goes my job, there goes my income, what will I do? I can’t replace this. I can’t get another job, especially without the car. I can’t afford this. I can’t let this happen. My family is depending on me.”

Think outside your bubble. Sure, NBD for rich people to just “hand it over”. SMH.

This.

No way. It’s easier to give up your stuff if you’re rich, of course it is!! Of course it would be a huge hardship for him to have lost his car even temporarily. But he would be alive. That’s the important thing.

The important thing is he would have been alive if these two hoodlums didn’t try to take his car.