Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel horrible feeling the way I do, but as someone who has been threatened by a crazy person on the train, on a bus, and just on the street, I don't feel much sympathy for this crazy person.

Question for the people who do have sympathy for this crazy person: have you ever been confronted by one and do you expect to likely be that situation again? I have and I do expect it will happen again.

My suspicion is that many of you live your lives insulated from those kinds of people. Maybe that makes you more objective than me. My feeling certainly comes from concerns over my own safety.

This particular homeless person had previously attacked three different women unprovoked and had a warrant for one of them. This particular homeless person did not just yell at people and scare them, he hurt people.

On the day he was murdered he did none of that. He did nothing but yell about food and wanting to eat.

This is objectively false.

True he also threw his jacket on the ground.

And? Come on, you can do it.

And then was murdered.

I think you need to read about his history of assaulting and hurting people and being arrested repeatedly. He should have been hospitalized long-term.

His history is irrelevant… you cant kill someone’s because they assaulted someone 8 months ago.

Exactly, PP. Prior history does not matter--especially since no one on the train, including the marine who placed him in the headlock, knew about it! So prior history was not a factor in the marine's decision to put him in a headlock. That decision was based on only what the marine saw with his own eyes, and what he saw did not include an actual assault.

How many times does it need to be said that you do not have to wait until someone gets assaulted before intervening?!

He apparently shouted threats and it's quite possible that a former Marine veteran could have taken these threats differently than others. You don't know if someone is armed or not and if they will or won't act upon their threats. FWIW, the guy declaring that he has nothing to lose could have explosives strapped to his body or another weapon. A veteran who had served in Iraq could have perceived this as a different level of threat, he also may have PTSD (which isn't uncommon in veterans deployed to war zones).

The point is when you make your city an open air asylum it puts stress on all the citizens who become more guarded, more anxious doing mundane everyday things like walking around and taking PT, and in some ways becoming unhinged in their own ways, or becoming indifferent and emotionally removed. A situation where one violent person runs into another one with issues is bound to happen.

Eric Adams BTW has enabled police to remove erratically acting people from the streets. He got a lot of backlash for targeting homeless under the pretense that they may be danger to themselves or others to remove them from the streets.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel horrible feeling the way I do, but as someone who has been threatened by a crazy person on the train, on a bus, and just on the street, I don't feel much sympathy for this crazy person.

Question for the people who do have sympathy for this crazy person: have you ever been confronted by one and do you expect to likely be that situation again? I have and I do expect it will happen again.

My suspicion is that many of you live your lives insulated from those kinds of people. Maybe that makes you more objective than me. My feeling certainly comes from concerns over my own safety.

This particular homeless person had previously attacked three different women unprovoked and had a warrant for one of them. This particular homeless person did not just yell at people and scare them, he hurt people.

On the day he was murdered he did none of that. He did nothing but yell about food and wanting to eat.

This is objectively false.

True he also threw his jacket on the ground.

And? Come on, you can do it.

And then was murdered.

I think you need to read about his history of assaulting and hurting people and being arrested repeatedly. He should have been hospitalized long-term.

His history is irrelevant… you cant kill someone’s because they assaulted someone 8 months ago.

Exactly, PP. Prior history does not matter--especially since no one on the train, including the marine who placed him in the headlock, knew about it! So prior history was not a factor in the marine's decision to put him in a headlock. That decision was based on only what the marine saw with his own eyes, and what he saw did not include an actual assault.

How many times does it need to be said that you do not have to wait until someone gets assaulted before intervening?!

He apparently shouted threats and it's quite possible that a former Marine veteran could have taken these threats differently than others. You don't know if someone is armed or not and if they will or won't act upon their threats. FWIW, the guy declaring that he has nothing to lose could have explosives strapped to his body or another weapon. A veteran who had served in Iraq could have perceived this as a different level of threat, he also may have PTSD (which isn't uncommon in veterans deployed to war zones).

The point is when you make your city an open air asylum it puts stress on all the citizens who become more guarded, more anxious doing mundane everyday things like walking around and taking PT, and in some ways becoming unhinged in their own ways, or becoming indifferent and emotionally removed. A situation where one violent person runs into another one with issues is bound to happen.

Eric Adams BTW has enabled police to remove erratically acting people from the streets. He got a lot of backlash for targeting homeless under the pretense that they may be danger to themselves or others to remove them from the streets.

I have seen several opinion pieces castigating Adams for his stance on unhoused people, which includes removing them and their cities etc.

Responses to this death are very mixed - so some will approve of Adams ' efforts and others will disapprove. Even though this death seems imo to show that current treatment of the unhoused is not helping anyone, unhoused or housed.

[Anonymous]

The video is pretty bad. The marine continues the chokehold for quite a while after Neely goes limp and another bystander warns him that he has defecated on himself and is likely to die soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This guy is getting charged, I guarantee it. No reason to put someone in a chokehold for 15 minutes, especially with other men helping to contain the mentally ill man.

It was disproportionate use of force relative to the risk. No gun or knife was drawn.

The length of time someone is in a chokehold is basically irrelevant. You can breathe in a choke hold if the person applying the choke doesn't know what they are doing or if you are good at defending a choke.

The main issue is how long did he hold the choke after the unhoused individual lol went unconscious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I feel horrible feeling the way I do, but as someone who has been threatened by a crazy person on the train, on a bus, and just on the street, I don't feel much sympathy for this crazy person.

Question for the people who do have sympathy for this crazy person: have you ever been confronted by one and do you expect to likely be that situation again? I have and I do expect it will happen again.

My suspicion is that many of you live your lives insulated from those kinds of people. Maybe that makes you more objective than me. My feeling certainly comes from concerns over my own safety.

This particular homeless person had previously attacked three different women unprovoked and had a warrant for one of them. This particular homeless person did not just yell at people and scare them, he hurt people.

On the day he was murdered he did none of that. He did nothing but yell about food and wanting to eat.

This is objectively false.

True he also threw his jacket on the ground.

And? Come on, you can do it.

And then was murdered.

I think you need to read about his history of assaulting and hurting people and being arrested repeatedly. He should have been hospitalized long-term.

His history is irrelevant… you cant kill someone’s because they assaulted someone 8 months ago.

Exactly, PP. Prior history does not matter--especially since no one on the train, including the marine who placed him in the headlock, knew about it! So prior history was not a factor in the marine's decision to put him in a headlock. That decision was based on only what the marine saw with his own eyes, and what he saw did not include an actual assault.

It suggests that he wasn't just innocently asking for water, like many have charactarized it, and that he was convincingly threatening other people.

This has not been borne out by the statements of witnesses. I saw no mention of threats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel horrible feeling the way I do, but as someone who has been threatened by a crazy person on the train, on a bus, and just on the street, I don't feel much sympathy for this crazy person.

Question for the people who do have sympathy for this crazy person: have you ever been confronted by one and do you expect to likely be that situation again? I have and I do expect it will happen again.

My suspicion is that many of you live your lives insulated from those kinds of people. Maybe that makes you more objective than me. My feeling certainly comes from concerns over my own safety.

This particular homeless person had previously attacked three different women unprovoked and had a warrant for one of them. This particular homeless person did not just yell at people and scare them, he hurt people.

On the day he was murdered he did none of that. He did nothing but yell about food and wanting to eat.

This is objectively false.

True he also threw his jacket on the ground.

And? Come on, you can do it.

And then was murdered.

I think you need to read about his history of assaulting and hurting people and being arrested repeatedly. He should have been hospitalized long-term.

His history is irrelevant… you cant kill someone’s because they assaulted someone 8 months ago.

Exactly, PP. Prior history does not matter--especially since no one on the train, including the marine who placed him in the headlock, knew about it! So prior history was not a factor in the marine's decision to put him in a headlock. That decision was based on only what the marine saw with his own eyes, and what he saw did not include an actual assault.

How many times does it need to be said that you do not have to wait until someone gets assaulted before intervening?!

You can intervene as long as you don't kill the person while doing so. The victim did not lay his hands on anyone in the train car. It was inappropriate and escalatory of the marine to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel horrible feeling the way I do, but as someone who has been threatened by a crazy person on the train, on a bus, and just on the street, I don't feel much sympathy for this crazy person.

Question for the people who do have sympathy for this crazy person: have you ever been confronted by one and do you expect to likely be that situation again? I have and I do expect it will happen again.

My suspicion is that many of you live your lives insulated from those kinds of people. Maybe that makes you more objective than me. My feeling certainly comes from concerns over my own safety.

This particular homeless person had previously attacked three different women unprovoked and had a warrant for one of them. This particular homeless person did not just yell at people and scare them, he hurt people.

On the day he was murdered he did none of that. He did nothing but yell about food and wanting to eat.

This is objectively false.

True he also threw his jacket on the ground.

And? Come on, you can do it.

And then was murdered.

I think you need to read about his history of assaulting and hurting people and being arrested repeatedly. He should have been hospitalized long-term.

His history is irrelevant… you cant kill someone’s because they assaulted someone 8 months ago.

Exactly, PP. Prior history does not matter--especially since no one on the train, including the marine who placed him in the headlock, knew about it! So prior history was not a factor in the marine's decision to put him in a headlock. That decision was based on only what the marine saw with his own eyes, and what he saw did not include an actual assault.

The Marine reasonably feared assault. And Neely’s history of assault does not justify killing him and wouldn’t be admissible in court to prove Neely’s guilt. But it is absolutely relevent. It shows that the Marine correctly perceived Neely as deranged and potentially violent. Because he was. The Marine may have overreacted and be criminally liable for that, but he was responding to threats by a violent person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel horrible feeling the way I do, but as someone who has been threatened by a crazy person on the train, on a bus, and just on the street, I don't feel much sympathy for this crazy person.

Question for the people who do have sympathy for this crazy person: have you ever been confronted by one and do you expect to likely be that situation again? I have and I do expect it will happen again.

My suspicion is that many of you live your lives insulated from those kinds of people. Maybe that makes you more objective than me. My feeling certainly comes from concerns over my own safety.

This particular homeless person had previously attacked three different women unprovoked and had a warrant for one of them. This particular homeless person did not just yell at people and scare them, he hurt people.

On the day he was murdered he did none of that. He did nothing but yell about food and wanting to eat.

This is objectively false.

True he also threw his jacket on the ground.

And? Come on, you can do it.

And then was murdered.

I think you need to read about his history of assaulting and hurting people and being arrested repeatedly. He should have been hospitalized long-term.

His history is irrelevant… you cant kill someone’s because they assaulted someone 8 months ago.

Exactly, PP. Prior history does not matter--especially since no one on the train, including the marine who placed him in the headlock, knew about it! So prior history was not a factor in the marine's decision to put him in a headlock. That decision was based on only what the marine saw with his own eyes, and what he saw did not include an actual assault.

The Marine reasonably feared assault. And Neely’s history of assault does not justify killing him and wouldn’t be admissible in court to prove Neely’s guilt. But it is absolutely relevent. It shows that the Marine correctly perceived Neely as deranged and potentially violent. Because he was. The Marine may have overreacted and be criminally liable for that, but he was responding to threats by a violent person.

Right. It makes his version of events more believable. If, say, Neely never had any run-ins with the law and was always peaceful as far as we knew, then we would be less likely to believe that he was behaving in a threatening manner.

[Anonymous]

I'm a liberal who marched for George Floyd and I would not convict this marine given the facts that I've read.
Something needs to happen with our mental health and allowing individuals to be arrested multiple times and released back out onto the streets is not the answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel horrible feeling the way I do, but as someone who has been threatened by a crazy person on the train, on a bus, and just on the street, I don't feel much sympathy for this crazy person.

Question for the people who do have sympathy for this crazy person: have you ever been confronted by one and do you expect to likely be that situation again? I have and I do expect it will happen again.

My suspicion is that many of you live your lives insulated from those kinds of people. Maybe that makes you more objective than me. My feeling certainly comes from concerns over my own safety.

This particular homeless person had previously attacked three different women unprovoked and had a warrant for one of them. This particular homeless person did not just yell at people and scare them, he hurt people.

On the day he was murdered he did none of that. He did nothing but yell about food and wanting to eat.

This is objectively false.

True he also threw his jacket on the ground.

And? Come on, you can do it.

And then was murdered.

I think you need to read about his history of assaulting and hurting people and being arrested repeatedly. He should have been hospitalized long-term.

His history is irrelevant… you cant kill someone’s because they assaulted someone 8 months ago.

Exactly, PP. Prior history does not matter--especially since no one on the train, including the marine who placed him in the headlock, knew about it! So prior history was not a factor in the marine's decision to put him in a headlock. That decision was based on only what the marine saw with his own eyes, and what he saw did not include an actual assault.

How many times does it need to be said that you do not have to wait until someone gets assaulted before intervening?!

You can intervene as long as you don't kill the person while doing so. The victim did not lay his hands on anyone in the train car. It was inappropriate and escalatory of the marine to do so.

Think about that poor woman who was blinded by the mentally ill man. Good think no one intervened while he was stalking her in the station but had not yet put his hands on her. When would it be appropriate to intervene? When he was stomping on her head or slamming it into the token box?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel horrible feeling the way I do, but as someone who has been threatened by a crazy person on the train, on a bus, and just on the street, I don't feel much sympathy for this crazy person.

Question for the people who do have sympathy for this crazy person: have you ever been confronted by one and do you expect to likely be that situation again? I have and I do expect it will happen again.

My suspicion is that many of you live your lives insulated from those kinds of people. Maybe that makes you more objective than me. My feeling certainly comes from concerns over my own safety.

This particular homeless person had previously attacked three different women unprovoked and had a warrant for one of them. This particular homeless person did not just yell at people and scare them, he hurt people.

On the day he was murdered he did none of that. He did nothing but yell about food and wanting to eat.

This is objectively false.

True he also threw his jacket on the ground.

And? Come on, you can do it.

And then was murdered.

I think you need to read about his history of assaulting and hurting people and being arrested repeatedly. He should have been hospitalized long-term.

His history is irrelevant… you cant kill someone’s because they assaulted someone 8 months ago.

Exactly, PP. Prior history does not matter--especially since no one on the train, including the marine who placed him in the headlock, knew about it! So prior history was not a factor in the marine's decision to put him in a headlock. That decision was based on only what the marine saw with his own eyes, and what he saw did not include an actual assault.

How many times does it need to be said that you do not have to wait until someone gets assaulted before intervening?!

You can intervene as long as you don't kill the person while doing so. The victim did not lay his hands on anyone in the train car. It was inappropriate and escalatory of the marine to do so.

Think about that poor woman who was blinded by the mentally ill man. Good think no one intervened while he was stalking her in the station but had not yet put his hands on her. When would it be appropriate to intervene? When he was stomping on her head or slamming it into the token box?

Yep. And, the treatment this young ex-Marine is getting will certainly make future good samaritans think twice before intervening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The video is pretty bad. The marine continues the chokehold for quite a while after Neely goes limp and another bystander warns him that he has defecated on himself and is likely to die soon.

It was horrific. He defecated himself that's what happens when you die like that. This was murder. No one pushed the emergency button or anything they just killed this man. I hope he's charged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The video is pretty bad. The marine continues the chokehold for quite a while after Neely goes limp and another bystander warns him that he has defecated on himself and is likely to die soon.

I'm not a lawyer and wondering if prosecutor can argue that prolonging the chokehold when person has lost consciousness and is not resisting can be seen as intent to kill and no longer self defense.

Might have been a Law and Order episode.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel horrible feeling the way I do, but as someone who has been threatened by a crazy person on the train, on a bus, and just on the street, I don't feel much sympathy for this crazy person.

Question for the people who do have sympathy for this crazy person: have you ever been confronted by one and do you expect to likely be that situation again? I have and I do expect it will happen again.

My suspicion is that many of you live your lives insulated from those kinds of people. Maybe that makes you more objective than me. My feeling certainly comes from concerns over my own safety.

This particular homeless person had previously attacked three different women unprovoked and had a warrant for one of them. This particular homeless person did not just yell at people and scare them, he hurt people.

On the day he was murdered he did none of that. He did nothing but yell about food and wanting to eat.

This is objectively false.

True he also threw his jacket on the ground.

And? Come on, you can do it.

And then was murdered.

I think you need to read about his history of assaulting and hurting people and being arrested repeatedly. He should have been hospitalized long-term.

His history is irrelevant… you cant kill someone’s because they assaulted someone 8 months ago.

Exactly, PP. Prior history does not matter--especially since no one on the train, including the marine who placed him in the headlock, knew about it! So prior history was not a factor in the marine's decision to put him in a headlock. That decision was based on only what the marine saw with his own eyes, and what he saw did not include an actual assault.

How many times does it need to be said that you do not have to wait until someone gets assaulted before intervening?!

You can intervene as long as you don't kill the person while doing so. The victim did not lay his hands on anyone in the train car. It was inappropriate and escalatory of the marine to do so.

Think about that poor woman who was blinded by the mentally ill man. Good think no one intervened while he was stalking her in the station but had not yet put his hands on her. When would it be appropriate to intervene? When he was stomping on her head or slamming it into the token box?

That video was nightmarish. Two men ran away from the assault instead of helping. Can’t say I blame them, but also hard to blame a man who had the opposite reaction to a clear threat.

[Anonymous]

This has not been borne out by the statements of witnesses. I saw no mention of threats.

I don't know how many people were in the train car when the incident happened. It is readily apparent, though, that not all of them have made public statements regarding the incident. I really hope that some of the witnesses will come forward and testify in front of the grand jury. And I say that without knowing what they will say.

The reports we do have are inconsistent and clearly slanted by the politics of the news medium on which they appear. Some say no threats. Others say he said he had had enough, it was going to end today, and he didn't care if he went to prison or died. Yeah, I'd feel threatened by that...especially since he reportedly threw garbage at people and then threw his coat on the floor.

At least 2 of the witnesses helped the marine restrain the homeless man. I assume they thought it was the right thing to do...and, apparently having some brains....they aren't shooting off their mouths to the news media. I can almost guarantee you--though it is pure speculation on my part-- that at least one of the 2 people who helped the marine restrain the homeless man has retained an attorney, who may well be negotiating some sort of immunity before testifying for the marine. I mean I sure would because one or both may be facing possible charges too.

I wouldn't talk to the news media if I were just a witness. And..I'd hazard a guess that at least one of the witnesses will have a better reason to stay silent than I would. Good chance at least one is an illegal alien and doesn't want to do anything to bring himself to the attention of the authorities.

And would you all quit saying nobody pushed the emergency button!!!! MOST NYC transit subway cars do NOT have intercoms. Pulling the emergency brake would have made matters worse. For the record, there are reports that someone did call 911 and it took the police took 15 minutes to respond.

Note that the marine could probably have exited the train when it came to the next station. He didn't. He stayed.

So, I'm with Mayor Adams on this one. Lets not jump to conclusions. Let the investigation take place.