USNWR Top 10 Leaked

[Anonymous]

“Is there any semi-accepted equivalent to the T14 or M7 for undergrad? I get that this discussion is top 10 due to the leak but I see random topX discussions once rankings come out.”

We get it. That way you can eliminate all public universities from these discussions. It used to be top 25. Now it top 20, soon to be 14.

[Anonymous]

Saw a rumor on WSO that Emory is T20 this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any semi-accepted equivalent to the T14 or M7 for undergrad? I get that this discussion is top 10 due to the leak but I see random topX discussions once rankings come out.

Closest proxy is Ivy Plus. That is, the Ivy League plus Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Northwestern, Duke, and Hopkins.

Add CalTech to this and you have a pretty universally accepted top 15 in my opinion (With HYPSM as a step above the rest).

[Anonymous]

Academically Yale is the weakest of HYPSM and I could see it being grouped more with Penn, Duke, Columbia

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Again, Caltech's entire student undergraduate student body is less than the freshman class at any of the other schools discussed.

It's also a relative unknown on the east coast to many.

https://tech.caltech.edu/2024/04/26/letter-sat-reinstatement/

Good read into the state of Caltech plaguing other schools I'm sure as well.

It's very well known. Most people I've spoken to about schools consider it the west coast equivalent to MIT, just smaller

I think that the west cost people feel like Stanford is Harvard and MIT combined.

Cal Tech is where they film the big bang theory after the asians have left for the day.

USNWR actually has a diversity rank, which has Caltech tied with Harvard, Yale, MIT, UChicago and a few others at 15th.

Don't get me wrong. I love caltech but it doesn't look like BBT.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Embargoed means it still has time to change right? I think a more reasonable list would go:

1. Princeton
2. MIT
3. Harvard
3. Stanford
5. Yale
6. Caltech
6. Duke
8. Johns Hopkins
8. Northwestern
10. Penn

Well sheeit, if we're going to do that then I'd say:

1. MIT
2. Stanford
3. Harvard
3. Cal Tech
5. Princeton
6. Duke
6. Johns Hopkins
8. Yale
8. Penn
10. Brown

We found the Brown alum who was rejected by Northwestern !

Kids at Brown don't care about Northwestern.

Oh but they do. For finance bros and stem kids, Brown is seen as an easier admit and not as good as Northwestern—so many kids who get deferred or rejected from ED at Penn Wharton or engineering or M&T(insanely popular among males from wealthy families) “settle” for Brown or Dartmouth in RD, and often do not get into Northwestern RD but would prefer it over Brown if they did.

I would disagree. Students would choose Brown and Dartmouth over Northwestern.

Of course they would. Then you get to say you're an Ivy Leaguer for the rest of your life. And I am not being sarcastic.

Does anyone really say they are an Ivy Leaguer or went to an Ivy League school though? Harvard and Yale grads don't. The old joke was that Cornell alums did. Now that Cornell looks like it probably won't be the lowest ranked Ivy League school again in the near future, joke is on everyone else! Stanford grads will tell you they are glad they avoided seeing the crappy Ivy League sports (well maybe not over the last few down years)

Employers and cocktail party attendees look at Northwestern as just as good academically. Parent groups will be impressed too!

+1. This is definitely not a thing. I move in silver-spoon circles in NYC and Northwestern (along with Duke, Stanford, Chicago) alums are viewed as the same as the Ivy League schools.

I remember a time when they used to look down a bit on schools like MIT and Caltech, but I think you can put them on that list without people laughing at you.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Embargoed means it still has time to change right? I think a more reasonable list would go:

1. Princeton
2. MIT
3. Harvard
3. Stanford
5. Yale
6. Caltech
6. Duke
8. Johns Hopkins
8. Northwestern
10. Penn

Well sheeit, if we're going to do that then I'd say:

1. MIT
2. Stanford
3. Harvard
3. Cal Tech
5. Princeton
6. Duke
6. Johns Hopkins
8. Yale
8. Penn
10. Brown

We found the Brown alum who was rejected by Northwestern !

Kids at Brown don't care about Northwestern.

Oh but they do. For finance bros and stem kids, Brown is seen as an easier admit and not as good as Northwestern—so many kids who get deferred or rejected from ED at Penn Wharton or engineering or M&T(insanely popular among males from wealthy families) “settle” for Brown or Dartmouth in RD, and often do not get into Northwestern RD but would prefer it over Brown if they did.

I would disagree. Students would choose Brown and Dartmouth over Northwestern.

Of course they would. Then you get to say you're an Ivy Leaguer for the rest of your life. And I am not being sarcastic.

Does anyone really say they are an Ivy Leaguer or went to an Ivy League school though? Harvard and Yale grads don't. The old joke was that Cornell alums did. Now that Cornell looks like it probably won't be the lowest ranked Ivy League school again in the near future, joke is on everyone else! Stanford grads will tell you they are glad they avoided seeing the crappy Ivy League sports (well maybe not over the last few down years)

Employers and cocktail party attendees look at Northwestern as just as good academically. Parent groups will be impressed too!

+1. This is definitely not a thing. I move in silver-spoon circles in NYC and Northwestern (along with Duke, Stanford, Chicago) alums are viewed as the same as the Ivy League schools.

Agree, elite is elite. They are all the same tier to everyone from those schools. There are even dating groups and other social networking groups for young professionals that invite alums from these schools, not just ivies. Some add Amherst and Williams too.

I am sure your silver spoon circles did not get their kids into most of these schools through merit (must be some niche sport or legacy). These same kids have been socializing with each others in their private nursery and HS since childhood so their dating pools are already set. No important or consequential innovation has come out of any of these NYC circles so it is not even a circle worth trying to belong to.

The kids I know who matriculated to Northwestern were all incredibly bright and traditionally book-smart. I'm fairly certain they would have had their pick at a handful of Ivies, too, although I imagine most would still choose HYPSM without a doubt. Is this different from your experience?

My kids are in TT NYC privates and the kids getting into H,Y, P, Brown, Dartmouth, Duke seem to be very wealthy or legacies. Chicago attracts the above average kid who applies ED because they want to go to a good a school but don't have the tippy top stats. Northwestern, JHU, Rice get the unconnected but good stats and bright kids. Penn takes both rich legacies and one really top student. Stanford does take top non-legacy kids who also excel in an activity (writing, classics) from our school. Barely anyone gets into MIT.

We had quite a few unhooked (neither legacy/athlete/donor) into Ivies at our DC private this year. Much more than years past.

We noticed the same thing. I think there are new admissions algorithms being used in response to making admissions race blind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rice gets a lot of wealthy kids, they're just from Texas

This. Rice for whatever reason remains somewhat Texas-centric. I think it's still more than a third Texan, which is a lot. The reputation of Rice in Dallas and the Upper East Side couldn't be more different. It's also a very small school, so they don't have the alumni numbers. Nor is it a school that sends a lot of people to Wall Street. That's not their vibe. So for most people in the northeast, Rice doesn't really resonate. I think that's changing, but it's still a small school in Texas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Academically Yale is the weakest of HYPSM and I could see it being grouped more with Penn, Duke, Columbia

Maybe Yale is the same academically as Penn and Duke. But Yale is more popular for sure. Yale has the demand as Princeton (which is below HSM).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any semi-accepted equivalent to the T14 or M7 for undergrad? I get that this discussion is top 10 due to the leak but I see random topX discussions once rankings come out.

There is only agreement on T5: HYPSM

And even that is starting to really become HMS.

If I got into every Ivy+ except HMS, I could see picking a school other than Princeton or Yale. I could see picking a school outside of Ivy+ for that matter.
If you included HMS, I don't see a lot of scenarios where I would pick a school outside of HMS.

The way i have it divided up in my mind are schools I would happily pay for, schools I would pay for because my wife made me, schools that I don't think provide a meaningful advantage over UVA and then all other schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any semi-accepted equivalent to the T14 or M7 for undergrad? I get that this discussion is top 10 due to the leak but I see random topX discussions once rankings come out.

There is only agreement on T5: HYPSM

And even that is starting to really become HMS.

If I got into every Ivy+ except HMS, I could see picking a school other than Princeton or Yale. I could see picking a school outside of Ivy+ for that matter.
If you included HMS, I don't see a lot of scenarios where I would pick a school outside of HMS.

The way i have it divided up in my mind are schools I would happily pay for, schools I would pay for because my wife made me, schools that I don't think provide a meaningful advantage over UVA and then all other schools.

I agree that people pick HMS over YP. But YP are still amazing. Where do you draw the line on "worth it" vs UVA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any semi-accepted equivalent to the T14 or M7 for undergrad? I get that this discussion is top 10 due to the leak but I see random topX discussions once rankings come out.

There is only agreement on T5: HYPSM

But Stanford consistently entered the top 5 only recently, at least in USNWR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any semi-accepted equivalent to the T14 or M7 for undergrad? I get that this discussion is top 10 due to the leak but I see random topX discussions once rankings come out.

There is only agreement on T5: HYPSM

And even that is starting to really become HMS.

If I got into every Ivy+ except HMS, I could see picking a school other than Princeton or Yale. I could see picking a school outside of Ivy+ for that matter.
If you included HMS, I don't see a lot of scenarios where I would pick a school outside of HMS.

The way i have it divided up in my mind are schools I would happily pay for, schools I would pay for because my wife made me, schools that I don't think provide a meaningful advantage over UVA and then all other schools.

Weird take, considering that USNWR (which is the ranking used for this thread) has ranked Princeton #1 for like 25 years straight or so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rice gets a lot of wealthy kids, they're just from Texas

This. Rice for whatever reason remains somewhat Texas-centric. I think it's still more than a third Texan, which is a lot. The reputation of Rice in Dallas and the Upper East Side couldn't be more different. It's also a very small school, so they don't have the alumni numbers. Nor is it a school that sends a lot of people to Wall Street. That's not their vibe. So for most people in the northeast, Rice doesn't really resonate. I think that's changing, but it's still a small school in Texas.

In Dallas, it’s UT & SMU >>>>> Rice.
The appreciation for rice is a Houston and National thing more than a Texas thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any semi-accepted equivalent to the T14 or M7 for undergrad? I get that this discussion is top 10 due to the leak but I see random topX discussions once rankings come out.

There is only agreement on T5: HYPSM

And even that is starting to really become HMS.

If I got into every Ivy+ except HMS, I could see picking a school other than Princeton or Yale. I could see picking a school outside of Ivy+ for that matter.
If you included HMS, I don't see a lot of scenarios where I would pick a school outside of HMS.

The way i have it divided up in my mind are schools I would happily pay for, schools I would pay for because my wife made me, schools that I don't think provide a meaningful advantage over UVA and then all other schools.

I agree that people pick HMS over YP. But YP are still amazing. Where do you draw the line on "worth it" vs UVA?

Ivy+
And depending on the area of study, add Oxbridge

Yale and Princeton are awesome, anyone would be lucky to get admitted there, but for a very very long time, the ivies looked down on engineers , but most of them developed their engineering departments 10-20 years ago, Yale and Princeton seemed to have trouble making the transition and they also seem to have lost a step in remaining relevant.

I wouldn't look sideways at someone that went to Columbia, UPenn or even Duke over Yale or Princeton.