Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that "fun parts of parenting" PP is a troll anyway, but if not I feel bad for her. Parenting is in the small moments, when you're doing something mundane and then suddenly your 4yo turns to you with joy or a comment that cracks you up.

If you get a lot of fulfilment from your job, that's great. But don't deluxe yourself about the tradeoffs. I wouldn't miss this for anything.

Ok, what time do you get home from work? Did you miss the part a about spending 4 hours a day on weekdays and all weekend with the kids? Do you think moms who work full time are bad parents for missing out on every single small moment?

Let’s not turn this into a working moms vs SAHM debate. The fact is, lots and lots of moms choose to work even when they don’t have to. I know, my mom worked full time and I never felt like I needed her more. We were very close and still are, and I respect her so much. I want my kids to have that. I don’t think spending an extra hour a day doing the dishes myself is going to meaningfully affect their lives or make them feel more loved. Having a mother who is happy, fulfilled, and able to spend real time with them makes a huge difference. I know my personality and I know doing ALL of the grunt work (vs just some of it and getting help for the rest) would make me and all of us unhappy.

I’m not sure what you people do for a living, but this situation is de rigueur in highly educated professional fields. My husband and I both worked in biglaw - he became a partner, I peeled off and took a more interesting but lower pay and lower hours job. This is par for the course in that world. Husband earns the money, wife has the “hobby job” (and sometimes the roles are reversed). For every partner who is married to a SAHM there seems to be a partner married to another partner (now that arrangement I will never wrap my head around). I truly feel like I have it all, though it does make me sad sometimes that my husband works so much. If I had a meaningless job that I didn’t like I’d imagine feeling differently.

I’m not trying to brag or tell you how I did everything right in life. I’m just saying it is entirely possible for two parents to work significant hours and still have a happy, healthy family life. I know many people aren’t as fortunate and I feel like people like PP are bitter with their lot and enjoy feeling like martyrs. The thing is, you don’t have to spend your morning making your kids individual bento boxes for lunch (my kids buy lunch at school). You don’t have to work part time so that you can take your kids to Kumon or their chess lessons (my kids come home and play with each other or neighborhood friends). Yes, those are trade offs, but my kids really don’t care whether I send them little notes in their lunch box everyday. Frankly I think they’d be embarrassed. But then again, I’m not a helicopter parent and it’s really important to me that my kids don’t feel like special snowflakes.

I just don’t believe you. How is it possible your kids wake up at 5-5:30 and go to bed at 7:30-8:30? Are they much older? They cannot possibly be little.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that "fun parts of parenting" PP is a troll anyway, but if not I feel bad for her. Parenting is in the small moments, when you're doing something mundane and then suddenly your 4yo turns to you with joy or a comment that cracks you up.

If you get a lot of fulfilment from your job, that's great. But don't deluxe yourself about the tradeoffs. I wouldn't miss this for anything.

Ok, what time do you get home from work? Did you miss the part a about spending 4 hours a day on weekdays and all weekend with the kids? Do you think moms who work full time are bad parents for missing out on every single small moment?

Let’s not turn this into a working moms vs SAHM debate. The fact is, lots and lots of moms choose to work even when they don’t have to. I know, my mom worked full time and I never felt like I needed her more. We were very close and still are, and I respect her so much. I want my kids to have that. I don’t think spending an extra hour a day doing the dishes myself is going to meaningfully affect their lives or make them feel more loved. Having a mother who is happy, fulfilled, and able to spend real time with them makes a huge difference. I know my personality and I know doing ALL of the grunt work (vs just some of it and getting help for the rest) would make me and all of us unhappy.

I’m not sure what you people do for a living, but this situation is de rigueur in highly educated professional fields. My husband and I both worked in biglaw - he became a partner, I peeled off and took a more interesting but lower pay and lower hours job. This is par for the course in that world. Husband earns the money, wife has the “hobby job” (and sometimes the roles are reversed). For every partner who is married to a SAHM there seems to be a partner married to another partner (now that arrangement I will never wrap my head around). I truly feel like I have it all, though it does make me sad sometimes that my husband works so much. If I had a meaningless job that I didn’t like I’d imagine feeling differently.

I’m not trying to brag or tell you how I did everything right in life. I’m just saying it is entirely possible for two parents to work significant hours and still have a happy, healthy family life. I know many people aren’t as fortunate and I feel like people like PP are bitter with their lot and enjoy feeling like martyrs. The thing is, you don’t have to spend your morning making your kids individual bento boxes for lunch (my kids buy lunch at school). You don’t have to work part time so that you can take your kids to Kumon or their chess lessons (my kids come home and play with each other or neighborhood friends). Yes, those are trade offs, but my kids really don’t care whether I send them little notes in their lunch box everyday. Frankly I think they’d be embarrassed. But then again, I’m not a helicopter parent and it’s really important to me that my kids don’t feel like special snowflakes.

Thanks for this lecture, especially what's " de rigeur in highly edicated fields" lol. I'm former biglaw and still work full-time as an attorney.

No one is telling OP to wash her own dishes.

There is limited time in everyone's day and it's a choice about how to spend them. Outsourcing helps to a certain point to take tasks off your list, but after that you lose time with your kids and that's fine if it's what you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that "fun parts of parenting" PP is a troll anyway, but if not I feel bad for her. Parenting is in the small moments, when you're doing something mundane and then suddenly your 4yo turns to you with joy or a comment that cracks you up.

If you get a lot of fulfilment from your job, that's great. But don't deluxe yourself about the tradeoffs. I wouldn't miss this for anything.

Ok, what time do you get home from work? Did you miss the part a about spending 4 hours a day on weekdays and all weekend with the kids? Do you think moms who work full time are bad parents for missing out on every single small moment?

Let’s not turn this into a working moms vs SAHM debate. The fact is, lots and lots of moms choose to work even when they don’t have to. I know, my mom worked full time and I never felt like I needed her more. We were very close and still are, and I respect her so much. I want my kids to have that. I don’t think spending an extra hour a day doing the dishes myself is going to meaningfully affect their lives or make them feel more loved. Having a mother who is happy, fulfilled, and able to spend real time with them makes a huge difference. I know my personality and I know doing ALL of the grunt work (vs just some of it and getting help for the rest) would make me and all of us unhappy.

I’m not sure what you people do for a living, but this situation is de rigueur in highly educated professional fields. My husband and I both worked in biglaw - he became a partner, I peeled off and took a more interesting but lower pay and lower hours job. This is par for the course in that world. Husband earns the money, wife has the “hobby job” (and sometimes the roles are reversed). For every partner who is married to a SAHM there seems to be a partner married to another partner (now that arrangement I will never wrap my head around). I truly feel like I have it all, though it does make me sad sometimes that my husband works so much. If I had a meaningless job that I didn’t like I’d imagine feeling differently.

I’m not trying to brag or tell you how I did everything right in life. I’m just saying it is entirely possible for two parents to work significant hours and still have a happy, healthy family life. I know many people aren’t as fortunate and I feel like people like PP are bitter with their lot and enjoy feeling like martyrs. The thing is, you don’t have to spend your morning making your kids individual bento boxes for lunch (my kids buy lunch at school). You don’t have to work part time so that you can take your kids to Kumon or their chess lessons (my kids come home and play with each other or neighborhood friends). Yes, those are trade offs, but my kids really don’t care whether I send them little notes in their lunch box everyday. Frankly I think they’d be embarrassed. But then again, I’m not a helicopter parent and it’s really important to me that my kids don’t feel like special snowflakes.

I just don’t believe you. How is it possible your kids wake up at 5-5:30 and go to bed at 7:30-8:30? Are they much older? They cannot possibly be little.

Not sure what’s so unbelievable about that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that "fun parts of parenting" PP is a troll anyway, but if not I feel bad for her. Parenting is in the small moments, when you're doing something mundane and then suddenly your 4yo turns to you with joy or a comment that cracks you up.

If you get a lot of fulfilment from your job, that's great. But don't deluxe yourself about the tradeoffs. I wouldn't miss this for anything.

Ok, what time do you get home from work? Did you miss the part a about spending 4 hours a day on weekdays and all weekend with the kids? Do you think moms who work full time are bad parents for missing out on every single small moment?

Let’s not turn this into a working moms vs SAHM debate. The fact is, lots and lots of moms choose to work even when they don’t have to. I know, my mom worked full time and I never felt like I needed her more. We were very close and still are, and I respect her so much. I want my kids to have that. I don’t think spending an extra hour a day doing the dishes myself is going to meaningfully affect their lives or make them feel more loved. Having a mother who is happy, fulfilled, and able to spend real time with them makes a huge difference. I know my personality and I know doing ALL of the grunt work (vs just some of it and getting help for the rest) would make me and all of us unhappy.

I’m not sure what you people do for a living, but this situation is de rigueur in highly educated professional fields. My husband and I both worked in biglaw - he became a partner, I peeled off and took a more interesting but lower pay and lower hours job. This is par for the course in that world. Husband earns the money, wife has the “hobby job” (and sometimes the roles are reversed). For every partner who is married to a SAHM there seems to be a partner married to another partner (now that arrangement I will never wrap my head around). I truly feel like I have it all, though it does make me sad sometimes that my husband works so much. If I had a meaningless job that I didn’t like I’d imagine feeling differently.

I’m not trying to brag or tell you how I did everything right in life. I’m just saying it is entirely possible for two parents to work significant hours and still have a happy, healthy family life. I know many people aren’t as fortunate and I feel like people like PP are bitter with their lot and enjoy feeling like martyrs. The thing is, you don’t have to spend your morning making your kids individual bento boxes for lunch (my kids buy lunch at school). You don’t have to work part time so that you can take your kids to Kumon or their chess lessons (my kids come home and play with each other or neighborhood friends). Yes, those are trade offs, but my kids really don’t care whether I send them little notes in their lunch box everyday. Frankly I think they’d be embarrassed. But then again, I’m not a helicopter parent and it’s really important to me that my kids don’t feel like special snowflakes.

Thanks for this lecture, especially what's " de rigeur in highly edicated fields" lol. I'm former biglaw and still work full-time as an attorney.

No one is telling OP to wash her own dishes.

There is limited time in everyone's day and it's a choice about how to spend them. Outsourcing helps to a certain point to take tasks off your list, but after that you lose time with your kids and that's fine if it's what you want.

I’m the first PP who commented that outsourcing PP pregnant with her fourth can’t be real, but not one of the recent posters.

For someone who claims to have it all figured out (the dream career! the fourth child!), you sure write an awful lot here. What I can’t reconcile is having such a strong preference for only the “fun” parts of parenting and then going on to have a *fourth* kid. It’s hard to relate to wanting to outsource THAT much of parenting (because when you have four kids, or even three, like I do), there’s a ton of not fun parts. I’m not a martyr, but I do value my ability to hang in there with my kids when things are tough and to find meaning in the little stuff you won’t do. A lot goes unsaid, but it’s there if you take the time to look, which you’re pretty clear you have no interest in doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that "fun parts of parenting" PP is a troll anyway, but if not I feel bad for her. Parenting is in the small moments, when you're doing something mundane and then suddenly your 4yo turns to you with joy or a comment that cracks you up.

If you get a lot of fulfilment from your job, that's great. But don't deluxe yourself about the tradeoffs. I wouldn't miss this for anything.

Ok, what time do you get home from work? Did you miss the part a about spending 4 hours a day on weekdays and all weekend with the kids? Do you think moms who work full time are bad parents for missing out on every single small moment?

Let’s not turn this into a working moms vs SAHM debate. The fact is, lots and lots of moms choose to work even when they don’t have to. I know, my mom worked full time and I never felt like I needed her more. We were very close and still are, and I respect her so much. I want my kids to have that. I don’t think spending an extra hour a day doing the dishes myself is going to meaningfully affect their lives or make them feel more loved. Having a mother who is happy, fulfilled, and able to spend real time with them makes a huge difference. I know my personality and I know doing ALL of the grunt work (vs just some of it and getting help for the rest) would make me and all of us unhappy.

I’m not sure what you people do for a living, but this situation is de rigueur in highly educated professional fields. My husband and I both worked in biglaw - he became a partner, I peeled off and took a more interesting but lower pay and lower hours job. This is par for the course in that world. Husband earns the money, wife has the “hobby job” (and sometimes the roles are reversed). For every partner who is married to a SAHM there seems to be a partner married to another partner (now that arrangement I will never wrap my head around). I truly feel like I have it all, though it does make me sad sometimes that my husband works so much. If I had a meaningless job that I didn’t like I’d imagine feeling differently.

I’m not trying to brag or tell you how I did everything right in life. I’m just saying it is entirely possible for two parents to work significant hours and still have a happy, healthy family life. I know many people aren’t as fortunate and I feel like people like PP are bitter with their lot and enjoy feeling like martyrs. The thing is, you don’t have to spend your morning making your kids individual bento boxes for lunch (my kids buy lunch at school). You don’t have to work part time so that you can take your kids to Kumon or their chess lessons (my kids come home and play with each other or neighborhood friends). Yes, those are trade offs, but my kids really don’t care whether I send them little notes in their lunch box everyday. Frankly I think they’d be embarrassed. But then again, I’m not a helicopter parent and it’s really important to me that my kids don’t feel like special snowflakes.

Thanks for this lecture, especially what's " de rigeur in highly edicated fields" lol. I'm former biglaw and still work full-time as an attorney.

No one is telling OP to wash her own dishes.

There is limited time in everyone's day and it's a choice about how to spend them. Outsourcing helps to a certain point to take tasks off your list, but after that you lose time with your kids and that's fine if it's what you want.

I’m the first PP who commented that outsourcing PP pregnant with her fourth can’t be real, but not one of the recent posters.

For someone who claims to have it all figured out (the dream career! the fourth child!), you sure write an awful lot here. What I can’t reconcile is having such a strong preference for only the “fun” parts of parenting and then going on to have a *fourth* kid. It’s hard to relate to wanting to outsource THAT much of parenting (because when you have four kids, or even three, like I do), there’s a ton of not fun parts. I’m not a martyr, but I do value my ability to hang in there with my kids when things are tough and to find meaning in the little stuff you won’t do. A lot goes unsaid, but it’s there if you take the time to look, which you’re pretty clear you have no interest in doing.

What part about “help” do you not understand? With four kids, of course there are hard parts even when you have a sitter and housekeeper. But the more help you get for those things where it doesn’t really matter who does it, the more you can spend quality time with them. So on the weekends, I show them how to make their bed and make sure they put their clothes in the laundry. But on weekdays, the sitter mostly handles stuff like that. When I’m helping my third grader with his homework, she’s playing legos with the first grader. When I’m cooking dinner my older kids want to play outside on the swing set and she’ll keep an eye on them while my preschooler “helps” me make dinner. How do you think people have raised families since the beginning of human existence? Do you think it’s required for a mother to be hovering over only one child at every given second? Do you value independence in your children and their ability to relate well to their siblings and other adults?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that "fun parts of parenting" PP is a troll anyway, but if not I feel bad for her. Parenting is in the small moments, when you're doing something mundane and then suddenly your 4yo turns to you with joy or a comment that cracks you up.

If you get a lot of fulfilment from your job, that's great. But don't deluxe yourself about the tradeoffs. I wouldn't miss this for anything.

Ok, what time do you get home from work? Did you miss the part a about spending 4 hours a day on weekdays and all weekend with the kids? Do you think moms who work full time are bad parents for missing out on every single small moment?

Let’s not turn this into a working moms vs SAHM debate. The fact is, lots and lots of moms choose to work even when they don’t have to. I know, my mom worked full time and I never felt like I needed her more. We were very close and still are, and I respect her so much. I want my kids to have that. I don’t think spending an extra hour a day doing the dishes myself is going to meaningfully affect their lives or make them feel more loved. Having a mother who is happy, fulfilled, and able to spend real time with them makes a huge difference. I know my personality and I know doing ALL of the grunt work (vs just some of it and getting help for the rest) would make me and all of us unhappy.

I’m not sure what you people do for a living, but this situation is de rigueur in highly educated professional fields. My husband and I both worked in biglaw - he became a partner, I peeled off and took a more interesting but lower pay and lower hours job. This is par for the course in that world. Husband earns the money, wife has the “hobby job” (and sometimes the roles are reversed). For every partner who is married to a SAHM there seems to be a partner married to another partner (now that arrangement I will never wrap my head around). I truly feel like I have it all, though it does make me sad sometimes that my husband works so much. If I had a meaningless job that I didn’t like I’d imagine feeling differently.

I’m not trying to brag or tell you how I did everything right in life. I’m just saying it is entirely possible for two parents to work significant hours and still have a happy, healthy family life. I know many people aren’t as fortunate and I feel like people like PP are bitter with their lot and enjoy feeling like martyrs. The thing is, you don’t have to spend your morning making your kids individual bento boxes for lunch (my kids buy lunch at school). You don’t have to work part time so that you can take your kids to Kumon or their chess lessons (my kids come home and play with each other or neighborhood friends). Yes, those are trade offs, but my kids really don’t care whether I send them little notes in their lunch box everyday. Frankly I think they’d be embarrassed. But then again, I’m not a helicopter parent and it’s really important to me that my kids don’t feel like special snowflakes.

Thanks for this lecture, especially what's " de rigeur in highly edicated fields" lol. I'm former biglaw and still work full-time as an attorney.

No one is telling OP to wash her own dishes.

There is limited time in everyone's day and it's a choice about how to spend them. Outsourcing helps to a certain point to take tasks off your list, but after that you lose time with your kids and that's fine if it's what you want.

I’m the first PP who commented that outsourcing PP pregnant with her fourth can’t be real, but not one of the recent posters.

For someone who claims to have it all figured out (the dream career! the fourth child!), you sure write an awful lot here. What I can’t reconcile is having such a strong preference for only the “fun” parts of parenting and then going on to have a *fourth* kid. It’s hard to relate to wanting to outsource THAT much of parenting (because when you have four kids, or even three, like I do), there’s a ton of not fun parts. I’m not a martyr, but I do value my ability to hang in there with my kids when things are tough and to find meaning in the little stuff you won’t do. A lot goes unsaid, but it’s there if you take the time to look, which you’re pretty clear you have no interest in doing.

What part about “help” do you not understand? With four kids, of course there are hard parts even when you have a sitter and housekeeper. But the more help you get for those things where it doesn’t really matter who does it, the more you can spend quality time with them. So on the weekends, I show them how to make their bed and make sure they put their clothes in the laundry. But on weekdays, the sitter mostly handles stuff like that. When I’m helping my third grader with his homework, she’s playing legos with the first grader. When I’m cooking dinner my older kids want to play outside on the swing set and she’ll keep an eye on them while my preschooler “helps” me make dinner. How do you think people have raised families since the beginning of human existence? Do you think it’s required for a mother to be hovering over only one child at every given second? Do you value independence in your children and their ability to relate well to their siblings and other adults?

Just FYI it doesn’t matter who spends the “quality time” with them, either. Unless your kids are dummies they know that you view them as a burden, so they probably politely tolerate their “quality time” with you whenever you deign to grant it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that "fun parts of parenting" PP is a troll anyway, but if not I feel bad for her. Parenting is in the small moments, when you're doing something mundane and then suddenly your 4yo turns to you with joy or a comment that cracks you up.

If you get a lot of fulfilment from your job, that's great. But don't deluxe yourself about the tradeoffs. I wouldn't miss this for anything.

Ok, what time do you get home from work? Did you miss the part a about spending 4 hours a day on weekdays and all weekend with the kids? Do you think moms who work full time are bad parents for missing out on every single small moment?

Let’s not turn this into a working moms vs SAHM debate. The fact is, lots and lots of moms choose to work even when they don’t have to. I know, my mom worked full time and I never felt like I needed her more. We were very close and still are, and I respect her so much. I want my kids to have that. I don’t think spending an extra hour a day doing the dishes myself is going to meaningfully affect their lives or make them feel more loved. Having a mother who is happy, fulfilled, and able to spend real time with them makes a huge difference. I know my personality and I know doing ALL of the grunt work (vs just some of it and getting help for the rest) would make me and all of us unhappy.

I’m not sure what you people do for a living, but this situation is de rigueur in highly educated professional fields. My husband and I both worked in biglaw - he became a partner, I peeled off and took a more interesting but lower pay and lower hours job. This is par for the course in that world. Husband earns the money, wife has the “hobby job” (and sometimes the roles are reversed). For every partner who is married to a SAHM there seems to be a partner married to another partner (now that arrangement I will never wrap my head around). I truly feel like I have it all, though it does make me sad sometimes that my husband works so much. If I had a meaningless job that I didn’t like I’d imagine feeling differently.

I’m not trying to brag or tell you how I did everything right in life. I’m just saying it is entirely possible for two parents to work significant hours and still have a happy, healthy family life. I know many people aren’t as fortunate and I feel like people like PP are bitter with their lot and enjoy feeling like martyrs. The thing is, you don’t have to spend your morning making your kids individual bento boxes for lunch (my kids buy lunch at school). You don’t have to work part time so that you can take your kids to Kumon or their chess lessons (my kids come home and play with each other or neighborhood friends). Yes, those are trade offs, but my kids really don’t care whether I send them little notes in their lunch box everyday. Frankly I think they’d be embarrassed. But then again, I’m not a helicopter parent and it’s really important to me that my kids don’t feel like special snowflakes.

Thanks for this lecture, especially what's " de rigeur in highly edicated fields" lol. I'm former biglaw and still work full-time as an attorney.

No one is telling OP to wash her own dishes.

There is limited time in everyone's day and it's a choice about how to spend them. Outsourcing helps to a certain point to take tasks off your list, but after that you lose time with your kids and that's fine if it's what you want.

I’m the first PP who commented that outsourcing PP pregnant with her fourth can’t be real, but not one of the recent posters.

For someone who claims to have it all figured out (the dream career! the fourth child!), you sure write an awful lot here. What I can’t reconcile is having such a strong preference for only the “fun” parts of parenting and then going on to have a *fourth* kid. It’s hard to relate to wanting to outsource THAT much of parenting (because when you have four kids, or even three, like I do), there’s a ton of not fun parts. I’m not a martyr, but I do value my ability to hang in there with my kids when things are tough and to find meaning in the little stuff you won’t do. A lot goes unsaid, but it’s there if you take the time to look, which you’re pretty clear you have no interest in doing.

What part about “help” do you not understand? With four kids, of course there are hard parts even when you have a sitter and housekeeper. But the more help you get for those things where it doesn’t really matter who does it, the more you can spend quality time with them. So on the weekends, I show them how to make their bed and make sure they put their clothes in the laundry. But on weekdays, the sitter mostly handles stuff like that. When I’m helping my third grader with his homework, she’s playing legos with the first grader. When I’m cooking dinner my older kids want to play outside on the swing set and she’ll keep an eye on them while my preschooler “helps” me make dinner. How do you think people have raised families since the beginning of human existence? Do you think it’s required for a mother to be hovering over only one child at every given second? Do you value independence in your children and their ability to relate well to their siblings and other adults?

Just FYI it doesn’t matter who spends the “quality time” with them, either. Unless your kids are dummies they know that you view them as a burden, so they probably politely tolerate their “quality time” with you whenever you deign to grant it.

Ok, sounds like you believe a woman should limit herself to one child only lest they think their mother doesn’t love them because she doesn’t hover over them at every moment. No wonder why so many young adults have trouble coping with the realities of growing up into independent people who do not need their moms to tie their shoes or do their homework for them. Kids love being with their parents, but they also love playing with their siblings and friends and love some alone time. Mine also happen to love playing with their sitter, she’s awesome! And do you really prefer that your child not exist if you could only spend 4 hours a day with them instead of 5?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Ok, sounds like you believe a woman should limit herself to one child only lest they think their mother doesn’t love them because she doesn’t hover over them at every moment. No wonder why so many young adults have trouble coping with the realities of growing up into independent people who do not need their moms to tie their shoes or do their homework for them. Kids love being with their parents, but they also love playing with their siblings and friends and love some alone time. Mine also happen to love playing with their sitter, she’s awesome! And do you really prefer that your child not exist if you could only spend 4 hours a day with them instead of 5?

Not really. My reply to you was in response to your overall tone and flippant attitude towards taking care of children. You are clearly one of those women who views her children as accessories, and undoubtedly you are having four because you think it’s a status symbol. It has nothing to do with the amount of time you do or don’t spend with your kids or about how much time other people spend with their kids. Your attitude just comes through so strongly in your posts it’s impossible not to notice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that "fun parts of parenting" PP is a troll anyway, but if not I feel bad for her. Parenting is in the small moments, when you're doing something mundane and then suddenly your 4yo turns to you with joy or a comment that cracks you up.

If you get a lot of fulfilment from your job, that's great. But don't deluxe yourself about the tradeoffs. I wouldn't miss this for anything.

Ok, what time do you get home from work? Did you miss the part a about spending 4 hours a day on weekdays and all weekend with the kids? Do you think moms who work full time are bad parents for missing out on every single small moment?

Let’s not turn this into a working moms vs SAHM debate. The fact is, lots and lots of moms choose to work even when they don’t have to. I know, my mom worked full time and I never felt like I needed her more. We were very close and still are, and I respect her so much. I want my kids to have that. I don’t think spending an extra hour a day doing the dishes myself is going to meaningfully affect their lives or make them feel more loved. Having a mother who is happy, fulfilled, and able to spend real time with them makes a huge difference. I know my personality and I know doing ALL of the grunt work (vs just some of it and getting help for the rest) would make me and all of us unhappy.

I’m not sure what you people do for a living, but this situation is de rigueur in highly educated professional fields. My husband and I both worked in biglaw - he became a partner, I peeled off and took a more interesting but lower pay and lower hours job. This is par for the course in that world. Husband earns the money, wife has the “hobby job” (and sometimes the roles are reversed). For every partner who is married to a SAHM there seems to be a partner married to another partner (now that arrangement I will never wrap my head around). I truly feel like I have it all, though it does make me sad sometimes that my husband works so much. If I had a meaningless job that I didn’t like I’d imagine feeling differently.

I’m not trying to brag or tell you how I did everything right in life. I’m just saying it is entirely possible for two parents to work significant hours and still have a happy, healthy family life. I know many people aren’t as fortunate and I feel like people like PP are bitter with their lot and enjoy feeling like martyrs. The thing is, you don’t have to spend your morning making your kids individual bento boxes for lunch (my kids buy lunch at school). You don’t have to work part time so that you can take your kids to Kumon or their chess lessons (my kids come home and play with each other or neighborhood friends). Yes, those are trade offs, but my kids really don’t care whether I send them little notes in their lunch box everyday. Frankly I think they’d be embarrassed. But then again, I’m not a helicopter parent and it’s really important to me that my kids don’t feel like special snowflakes.

Thanks for this lecture, especially what's " de rigeur in highly edicated fields" lol. I'm former biglaw and still work full-time as an attorney.

No one is telling OP to wash her own dishes.

There is limited time in everyone's day and it's a choice about how to spend them. Outsourcing helps to a certain point to take tasks off your list, but after that you lose time with your kids and that's fine if it's what you want.

I’m the first PP who commented that outsourcing PP pregnant with her fourth can’t be real, but not one of the recent posters.

For someone who claims to have it all figured out (the dream career! the fourth child!), you sure write an awful lot here. What I can’t reconcile is having such a strong preference for only the “fun” parts of parenting and then going on to have a *fourth* kid. It’s hard to relate to wanting to outsource THAT much of parenting (because when you have four kids, or even three, like I do), there’s a ton of not fun parts. I’m not a martyr, but I do value my ability to hang in there with my kids when things are tough and to find meaning in the little stuff you won’t do. A lot goes unsaid, but it’s there if you take the time to look, which you’re pretty clear you have no interest in doing.

What part about “help” do you not understand? With four kids, of course there are hard parts even when you have a sitter and housekeeper. But the more help you get for those things where it doesn’t really matter who does it, the more you can spend quality time with them. So on the weekends, I show them how to make their bed and make sure they put their clothes in the laundry. But on weekdays, the sitter mostly handles stuff like that. When I’m helping my third grader with his homework, she’s playing legos with the first grader. When I’m cooking dinner my older kids want to play outside on the swing set and she’ll keep an eye on them while my preschooler “helps” me make dinner. How do you think people have raised families since the beginning of human existence? Do you think it’s required for a mother to be hovering over only one child at every given second? Do you value independence in your children and their ability to relate well to their siblings and other adults?

Dp here. I get it. I have a friend with 2 and she sends them to daycare or camp all day to tire them out. When they are home, they fight and cry. She lets them play and she puts them to bed. Her favorite time is when they are sleeping. On weekends, she and her husband take turns getting alone time. They take plenty of Instagram worthy pictures at least once a week.

I’m a SAHM of 3. I kind of suck at all the housework. I stay home and outsource as much as possible. We have a cleaner and a separate housekeeper/cook. I didn’t stay home to clean all day. I stay home to spend quality time with my kids.

Strangely I feel like I don’t spend enough quality time with my older 2 because I spend so much of my time focusing on the younger one. I have some guilt because older ones were with a nanny and daycare when they were younger and I was working. Now I spend more time with youngest and still don’t get to spend as much time with older kids. It sounds ridiculous because we are all home and spend a lot of time together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ok, sounds like you believe a woman should limit herself to one child only lest they think their mother doesn’t love them because she doesn’t hover over them at every moment. No wonder why so many young adults have trouble coping with the realities of growing up into independent people who do not need their moms to tie their shoes or do their homework for them. Kids love being with their parents, but they also love playing with their siblings and friends and love some alone time. Mine also happen to love playing with their sitter, she’s awesome! And do you really prefer that your child not exist if you could only spend 4 hours a day with them instead of 5?

Not really. My reply to you was in response to your overall tone and flippant attitude towards taking care of children. You are clearly one of those women who views her children as accessories, and undoubtedly you are having four because you think it’s a status symbol. It has nothing to do with the amount of time you do or don’t spend with your kids or about how much time other people spend with their kids. Your attitude just comes through so strongly in your posts it’s impossible not to notice.

While this is true, would you slam PP so much if she were a man? Plenty of workaholic men with SAH wives enabling them in their workaholism barely see their children and view them as status symbols.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ok, sounds like you believe a woman should limit herself to one child only lest they think their mother doesn’t love them because she doesn’t hover over them at every moment. No wonder why so many young adults have trouble coping with the realities of growing up into independent people who do not need their moms to tie their shoes or do their homework for them. Kids love being with their parents, but they also love playing with their siblings and friends and love some alone time. Mine also happen to love playing with their sitter, she’s awesome! And do you really prefer that your child not exist if you could only spend 4 hours a day with them instead of 5?

Not really. My reply to you was in response to your overall tone and flippant attitude towards taking care of children. You are clearly one of those women who views her children as accessories, and undoubtedly you are having four because you think it’s a status symbol. It has nothing to do with the amount of time you do or don’t spend with your kids or about how much time other people spend with their kids. Your attitude just comes through so strongly in your posts it’s impossible not to notice.

While this is true, would you slam PP so much if she were a man? Plenty of workaholic men with SAH wives enabling them in their workaholism barely see their children and view them as status symbols.

There are orphans, kids with only one parent who has to work all day, kids who live with their grandparents and every other possible scenario.

Having a successful mom isn’t the worst situation you can be in. I guess if a single mom of 4 had to work all the time, people may have more sympathy.

I do agree it is the pp’s tone that is off putting.

[Anonymous]

Pp here. I just wanted to add that I used to work full time and I felt like I did not have enough time with my kids. The morning rush to get ready was not qualify fine spent and after work we had 1-2 hours. This wasn’t enough time. For some people, that 1 hour of time may be enough.

I also didn’t like how I was not taking care of myself. I was too tired to work out.

DH does not feel the same. He doesn’t feel guilty for not being a chaperone for a field trip or missing a class party. I wonder if the moms (or dads) know how sad their kids look when they are one of the few without a parent at their party or show. It is even sadder if the kid is so used to parent not coming that they don’t even feel bothered by it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pp here. I just wanted to add that I used to work full time and I felt like I did not have enough time with my kids. The morning rush to get ready was not qualify fine spent and after work we had 1-2 hours. This wasn’t enough time. For some people, that 1 hour of time may be enough.

I also didn’t like how I was not taking care of myself. I was too tired to work out.

DH does not feel the same. He doesn’t feel guilty for not being a chaperone for a field trip or missing a class party. I wonder if the moms (or dads) know how sad their kids look when they are one of the few without a parent at their party or show. It is even sadder if the kid is so used to parent not coming that they don’t even feel bothered by it.

Oh come off it. I am a social worker turned SAHM, and I find this ridiculous. My kids, like most of the kids on DCUM, are already over privileged with a little too much oversight into their day to day lives.

If you want to help sad children, then put on an ice cream social at the DV shelter. There are tons of sad kids there. Don’t hop on message boards to troll working mothers.

[Anonymous]

^^to pp former social worker mom: what’s DV shelter? How can I sponsor and ice cream party? What else could I volunteer to do? (I have the time and money).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pp here. I just wanted to add that I used to work full time and I felt like I did not have enough time with my kids. The morning rush to get ready was not qualify fine spent and after work we had 1-2 hours. This wasn’t enough time. For some people, that 1 hour of time may be enough.

I also didn’t like how I was not taking care of myself. I was too tired to work out.

DH does not feel the same. He doesn’t feel guilty for not being a chaperone for a field trip or missing a class party. I wonder if the moms (or dads) know how sad their kids look when they are one of the few without a parent at their party or show. It is even sadder if the kid is so used to parent not coming that they don’t even feel bothered by it.

+1 DH found the same thing. When he had a year where he worked long hours and only saw the kids for an hour to an hour and a half during the week and traveled, things changed in his relationship with the kids. We found that, for us, three hours a day and tons on the weekends was the magic amount of time to have the relationship he wanted. If it was longer, it was nice but there was a diminishing value of return so to speak. This was when the kids were toddlers and it seemed to work as they aged. I do think quantity time matters up to when it is enough.

For me, because I had a 40 hour job that was fairly flexible, we never found a point where I was spending too little time.