Husbands with SAHMs that prefer they work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, I'm sure kids are appreciative of having a parent dedicated to the home and their needs. But my kids are proud of having a mom who is accomplished outside of the home and are happy to have a nice home jointly run by mom and dad. Whatever works for your family!

+1

I hear kids at preschool all of the time asking their nannies or caregivers "why can't mommy pick me up?" or "why does mommy have to work?" or the worst, when another child asked me "why don't I have a mom on the field trip?" Kids notice these things. Whether is affects them long term or not, we won't really ever know.

Children ask all kinds of questions, especially when they see things that are different than what they have. Why does Larla get to have a blue shirt? How come Farten gets to wear glasses and I don't? How come Julie's Mom picks her up all the time when sometimes it's you, daddy or nanny that comes to get me? Why does David get to have a penis and I don't?

And it won't affect them unless people like you start instilling in them that only mommies and daddies who are present 24:7 can possibly love them enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all fun and games until breadwinner DH wants a younger, perkier wife.

Happens a lot with you guys? Awww...never heard of it in my group of friends. Sorry you married assholes who earn less. I am sure it all evens out because you are ugly too?

^^the retort of someone who hasn't matured much due to the lack of interesting and engaging activities outside the home.

No, our interesting and engaging activities happen inside the house. But, you should continue working because your DH will dump you for another woman, because there are many interesting and engaging activities outside the home. LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


Why would you not take more leave from your job to cover kid things (doctor, dentist, field trips, etc.) if your wife also worked? I assume she handles 100% because she's AH.

Forgive me for not kneeling at the "must have a SAHP from 0-5" altar. Dual WOHPs can provide a foundation just as important and stable as a SAHP/WOHP family.

I do take leave some times for various child-related things, but I suppose you are right that it is not as much as my wife. It seems crazy though to think that little kids would prefer a more "even" split of times like that if it means having both parents gone almost all the time.

And I'm not expecting you to kneel at any altar. I was just expressing my opinion that one model is superior to another. You disagree. That's fine. Most of the debate came in response to allegations about racism or elitism, and I think that is just defensiveness.

You are really a closed minded asshole, aren't you. You started your little soapbox lecture telling everyone you just wanted to sing the praises of your SAH wife. But really you just wanted to make digs and take stabs at working parents. And your ignorance is clearly coming through in your inability to see something from a different perspective. Let me school you on a couple things:

1. someone having a different opinion than yours (and maybe some proof to back it up) is not called being defensive. it's called having a discussion or argument (I'm going to assume here that your SAH wife is very submissive and wouldn't dare have a differing opinion based on the way you respond to everyone on here who disagrees with you.

2. making generalizations like "both parents gone almost all the time;" "nannies are not educated or thoughtful;" "one SAH parent will always provide superior childcare than [basically anything else]" makes you sound uneducated, ignorant, stubborn and closed minded and takes away from the value of anything else you have to say. In other words (I feel I have to explain this to you since you're a bit...closed minded and unwilling to learn or grow from outside information) when all your arguments are swimming in extremes and generalities and your response to everyone is "you're defensive because I'm right," it makes people not believe the rest of your arguments whether or not they are valid.

3. when 2 parents work, they can generally coordinate their schedules so that their child or children aren't "always gone" but rather spend less time away ( mom spends morning with child/ goes in late/drops kid off late; dad goes in early/picks up child early) Such a schedule will give the child quality time with BOTH parents.

4. Kids with absentee dads generally have a tougher time growing up. Not always and this is different than single parents. Studies indicate that dads that are in the family but absentee cause some trauma to some kids.

5. KIDS ARE DIFFERENT!!! PARENTS ARE DIFFERENT!!!! There are kids that need and crave and develop much better in a social environment for most of the day. There are kids that need and crave and develop much better at home with a parent. There are parents that have a calm and serene and wonderful family when they are intellectually stimulated with work. There are parents that are more calm and serene and wonderful family when a parent is home to manage the household and family. One way is NO BETTER than the other.

6. some parents would love to stay home but can't. You're an ASSHOLE for telling them their childrearing is subpar. Some parents would love to get into the workforce and can't. You making your stupid generalizations don't help them. And some parents are doing what they want because they can. You do not know that your situation is superior to any of those situations and you just saying that is useless banter.

Have I cleared that up for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all fun and games until breadwinner DH wants a younger, perkier wife.

Happens a lot with you guys? Awww...never heard of it in my group of friends. Sorry you married assholes who earn less. I am sure it all evens out because you are ugly too?

^^the retort of someone who hasn't matured much due to the lack of interesting and engaging activities outside the home.

No, our interesting and engaging activities happen inside the house. But, you should continue working because your DH will dump you for another woman, because there are many interesting and engaging activities outside the home. LOL

If my husband were to "dump me" (love the high school language btw), I'd be fine and financially self-sufficient. You?

[Anonymous]

Holy shit. How is there this much to say on this topic??? Who cares what other people do with their time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is how I look at my situation:

My wife stays at home -- we've got three young kids (the oldest just started school). And man, it is GREAT, and I'm thankful she's willing to do it. I couldn't. It is constant attention to schedules and activities and the hearts and minds of the little ones. She cooks healthy food, keeps the house reasonably clean, does the laundry, pays the bills, and keeps up the social connections.

I'm thankful that the raising of the kids is not in the hands of some minimum wage preschool workers or uneducated nanny. I'm thankful she is constantly teaching the kids about the world, about morals, about important concepts that will make them more successful and happy teens and adults. I'm thankful that because she does all she does during the day, we have time to connect as a couple when I'm home from work. We have a great marriage and a peaceful, happy, intellectual family. When I hear and read about the hustle of two working parents, it sounds soul crushing. Why would any resent that?

Ahhh ... the irony.

How is that ironic? Do you think it is immoral that I'd rather have my children spend their formative years being cared for by someone who loves them deeply, is extremely well educated and intelligent, and thoughtful? If you need two working parents to get by, then so be it. But if you think that your children get care as good from their preschool or the nanny you found from some website or listserv, that either speaks to your delusion or the lack of better options at home.

Immoral? Nah, just elitist and myopic. It's not about money – I guarantee I could buy and sell you. It is the idea that someone who is not been afforded the same educational and life opportunities as you and your wife - and gasp! May be a different race – is somehow ill-equipped to teach morals and worldly behavior. Unless the worldview you want to promote is "don't let those poor brown hands touch my kid!"

Someone calling someone elitist while simultaneously saying "I could buy and sell you". If you represent working women I'm glad to be on the intelligent other side.

Deserved response to "if you need two incomes to get by, so be it."

What a loser.

Why is that a deserved response to the two-income comment? (That was my comment, by the way.) I'm just saying that if you need to have all parents work to stay afloat, that needs to be respected. If both parents just want to work rather than having one stay home with kids, just be honest about the realities of the child care situation.

As for elitist and myopic, again, how so? Daycares -- and we have occasionally sent our kids to relatively very good ones -- are at best just entertaining the kids and keeping them from hurting themselves. There are too many kids for real, individualized attention, and frankly, the "teachers" rarely seem very smart or thoughtful. Certainly not as smart or thoughtful as my wife, and certainly do not love my kids as much or care as much about their development as people. Again, I'm sure it is fine, but it is clearly a step down. Let's just be honest about this. I think a lot of the working moms here feel guilty and lash out at any suggestion that the kids are receiving subpar care.

The whole thread is about resentment though. And the point is, why resent someone who is willing to stay home with kids and take care of the household?

So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all fun and games until breadwinner DH wants a younger, perkier wife.

Happens a lot with you guys? Awww...never heard of it in my group of friends. Sorry you married assholes who earn less. I am sure it all evens out because you are ugly too?

^^the retort of someone who hasn't matured much due to the lack of interesting and engaging activities outside the home.

No, our interesting and engaging activities happen inside the house. But, you should continue working because your DH will dump you for another woman, because there are many interesting and engaging activities outside the home. LOL

If my husband were to "dump me" (love the high school language btw), I'd be fine and financially self-sufficient. You?

Oh honey, bitchy women like you are very unappealing.

I am set financially, so don't worry about me, after all I am able to afford to stay home right now. You?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

[Anonymous]

I had a loving, educated SAHM who was also seriously depressed. I would have been better off with her working (she agrees; her depression lifted when she was finally able to work). It's not at all black and white.

The dad with the SAHW posting here sounds pretty out of touch with his kids, not sure if he really is or just comes across that way.

I have done both SAH and WOH with kids under five. There are benefits to both. Again not black and white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

This is a very good post. I'm actually the PP that started this brouhaha talking about my situation at home. Your post is truth though. I was going to respond and say that we all make decisions where we try to optimize by triangulating between time, money, and personal fulfillment. My wife has sacrificed a lot to stay home, and we have sacrificed a lot (materially) as a family. (We spend very little money on material things and get most of our entertainment from things that are free or cheap -- watching movies online, exercising, having lots of sex, reading library books, etc.) We don't live in the very best school district (though we live in a good one), and we don't spend a lot of money on extracurricular stuff as much as we might if money were no concern. It is the same with material possessions. If my wife worked or I worked much more (in fact, I used to work much more), we could do/have all that, and some people make that choice and believe they are doing the best for their kids. Other people sacrifice personal fulfillment or family time to make more money and ensure a certain level of material comfort or financial security. Some people have to work all the time just to provide the bare minimum. I don't fault anybody for these decisions. I never said that it was horrible to have a kid in daycare, but I do have the opinion that it is superior to have a loving parent raising the kids (unless that parent is unfit). So sue me.

Mainly, I just wanted to paint a different picture of the SAH spouse situation than what was in this thread. I don't resent her or feel like she's riding the gravy train. I appreciate the sacrifice for the sake of the kids and the peace and harmony at home. It certainly doesn't look like an easy job and isn't without sacrifice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, I'm sure kids are appreciative of having a parent dedicated to the home and their needs. But my kids are proud of having a mom who is accomplished outside of the home and are happy to have a nice home jointly run by mom and dad. Whatever works for your family!

+1

I hear kids at preschool all of the time asking their nannies or caregivers "why can't mommy pick me up?" or "why does mommy have to work?" or the worst, when another child asked me "why don't I have a mom on the field trip?" Kids notice these things. Whether is affects them long term or not, we won't really ever know.

Preschool kids also want to eat candy for breakfast. The decision to WOH or SAH is an adult one, not up to the children, who can't possibly know what's best for their family. I picked my kids up plenty of times and made lots of field trips, even though I worked, because I had childcare for my other kids. Many SAHMs couldn't go on field trips because they had no one to watch their other kids.

Same. Kids in preschool and I've literally never heard this.

SAHM worshipper "supposedly male" pp - please, just STOP. STAAAAHHHP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

This is a very good post. I'm actually the PP that started this brouhaha talking about my situation at home. Your post is truth though. I was going to respond and say that we all make decisions where we try to optimize by triangulating between time, money, and personal fulfillment. My wife has sacrificed a lot to stay home, and we have sacrificed a lot (materially) as a family. (We spend very little money on material things and get most of our entertainment from things that are free or cheap -- watching movies online, exercising, having lots of sex, reading library books, etc.) We don't live in the very best school district (though we live in a good one), and we don't spend a lot of money on extracurricular stuff as much as we might if money were no concern. It is the same with material possessions. If my wife worked or I worked much more (in fact, I used to work much more), we could do/have all that, and some people make that choice and believe they are doing the best for their kids. Other people sacrifice personal fulfillment or family time to make more money and ensure a certain level of material comfort or financial security. Some people have to work all the time just to provide the bare minimum. I don't fault anybody for these decisions. I never said that it was horrible to have a kid in daycare, but I do have the opinion that it is superior to have a loving parent raising the kids (unless that parent is unfit). So sue me.

Mainly, I just wanted to paint a different picture of the SAH spouse situation than what was in this thread. I don't resent her or feel like she's riding the gravy train. I appreciate the sacrifice for the sake of the kids and the peace and harmony at home. It certainly doesn't look like an easy job and isn't without sacrifice.

Having lots of sex!?! Dude, just .. I can't. I agree that you defend and protest way too much.

Please, move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've done both SAHM and WOHM. I can assure you, when I'm in a SAHM mode I am doing lots of fun things for myself- exercise classes, tennis, hiking, meeting friends for coffee, meeting friends for lunch, etc... I know that I'm taking care of the kids and household but I make a point of doing things that I like doing and not feeling guilty about it.

No reason to feel guilty about not working and enjoying life. The haters are so aggressive because they feel bad about their own life or have some sort of other issue. From the comments it seems like the pp has messed up views on relationships and men. Or doesn't get that a marriage is much more than a paycheck and who does what.

Agree so completely. You can tell the ones with a miserable existence. I've worked and stayed home, and DH and I agree there's value in both depending on what we're after at any given point in our marriage. Right now I don't work outside of my passion, I'm an artist and DH and I both want me to have the opportunity to pursue it aggressively, so that's what I'm doing right now. I could not care less what anyone thinks of this, I know how great my marriage is and how great my life is. *shrug*

And yes, I'd do the same for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So lots of holes in your thinking. First, you pretend to know all about daycare - there are some great, high quality centers and home daycares in this area - but you know nothing, NOTHING about them because the random drop off daycare your non-working wife drops them off at so she can grab her mani-pedi doesn't count. You can't talk about the merits of having a SAHM and be an expert on daycare. Sor.

Also, you conveniently leave out how much it sucks for your kids and you that are a paycheck while your wife "raises" them. Again, can't have it both ways. If working parents are having their kids raised by the lowly daycare staff and nannies who take care of them during working hours then you can't be raising your kids if you work. Many parents who both work actually stagger stuff so they both see the kids a lot - my husband goes in at 9 after kids get on the bus and I'm home by 6 when I don't WFH 2x a week. I'm betting you've never stayed home with a sick kid, gone to a dr. appointment with your kid, or volunteered for a field trip? My husband does and did all the time and you can really see it in his relationship with our kids.

Also, we used high quality daycare at my husband's work for a few years, then switched to a nanny. Our nanny was "uneducated" but she is the kindest, most patient, hardest working woman I know and my kids benefited greatly from her love and experience. She also taught them fluent Spanish. There are so many advantages to having others help raise your kids.

You also have no idea how your wife will feel about all this in 10, 15 years when the kids don't need her as much and she has been out of the workforce for over a decade. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but your smugness about it all is not really appropriate at this time.

If your current situation is working for your family, that's swell. But to act like it would be perfect for every family or you just can't fathom why others make different choices, is just silly and makes you look foolish.

Look, I work and will always work because my income is critical to our family. But I do think you're being unnecessarily defensive with the guy by going on the attack. I don't think he's telling you how to do things; he's telling you what worked for him.

My kids have been in daycare and nannycare all their life. Do I think they had great childcare? yes, absolutely. Do I think that I would have provided it better? Absolutely. I love them more than any daycare worker could, and I know more and am more educated than any of their childcare workers. That doesn't mean their teachers have been uneducated, or didn't love them. It just means I love them more, and would have done better. It would have been perfect with me, but that's impossible. So we are going for good, which means high-quality preschools. Good is fine. Good is good. It doesn't hurt my feelings to say excellent is better than good but excellent isn't always possible. We'll live, kids are fine. Again, I don't doubt that your kid had great childcare. But to deny that care given by loving, educated mothers is not the gold standard is..sort of silly. And I know why people bristle at this; we hate the idea that we are giving the kids anything other than the very best. But that's the reality. We, well most of us, cannot achieve the best. We drive acceptable cars, we have acceptable jobs, we live in acceptable houses, there's always more perfect out there. We have it good. Good is fine. It's not as good as perfect or excellent, but that's OK, really.

You really didn't get my post. He (and I don't think this was a dude, sorry, this was an unappreciated SAHM), ONLY listed the pros of their situation, without considering the other aspects. I don't agree that moms need to be with their kids all day every day in the early years, or that is better. Fine if you think that, but not everyone does. If I did I would have quit work in a heartbeat but I think my staying in the workforce outweighed any of those advantages, and that is my point. Every action has a reaction and I don't think having a SAH parent for years is the optimum. I just don't. I think it work just fine, and I support women who make the choice (and men) but I don't think it is optimal. It does work better for some families, if the working parent works crazy, inflexible hours and the SAH parent really, really didn't want to work, for example. But I won't agree it is optimal for every family.

Our daycare workers were mainly young childless women with tons of energy and patience - most moms are not going to have endless patience for their own kids. Agree that it is best for mom not to rush off to work at 2 and 4 and 6 weeks which is a reality for some, but I don't think that is who we are talking about on this thread.

I am not asking you say it's right for every family. What's right for the family is the sum of many factors, and quality of childcare is just one of them. It doesn't outweigh every single thing. I mean, I work, don't I? Quite apart from that, I believe that, in isolation from all other factors, the quality of childcare provided by a loving, educated mother is better than any daycare, nanny or preschool, no matter how good. I also think there is no reason for you to beat up on that guy because he thinks that way. For you, staying in the workforce outweighed this advantage. For me, it did too, and that's why I work. I'm OK with my kid getting an 8 quality of care instead of 10, because 8 is still pretty good. That doesn't, though, make 10 equal to 8, I don't think.