Staying together for kids, do you plan for future?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of divorces at empty nest time.

Many are blind-sided because they didn't know their spouse was just hanging around waiting for their kids to leave and secretly planning their escape. It's quite tragic to do that to someone.

Getting played and blindsided is vastly different than being a clueless, loveless do-nothing and getting dumped. Don’t conflate the two. Choose to love each and every day, and show it, not just affectionately but by yourself actions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of divorces at empty nest time.

Many are blind-sided because they didn't know their spouse was just hanging around waiting for their kids to leave and secretly planning their escape. It's quite tragic to do that to someone.

+1 Yes, I think it is really horrible to do that to someone. Planning an exit years in advance is pretty horrible. If you know you will leave, just end it and dont' delay the damage and steal years of another person's life. So wrong.

I agree. I think the people that stay until their kids leave for college are particularly awful.

Are these Gray Divorces 95% filed by women? Women who worked, kept the house, raised and parented the kids, planned everything, maintained the social schedule, —-basically selflessly gave a damn and worked their @$$e$ off on all fronts while their partner did nothing or did nothing but an ungrateful paycheck and build his ego at work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of divorces at empty nest time.

Many are blind-sided because they didn't know their spouse was just hanging around waiting for their kids to leave and secretly planning their escape. It's quite tragic to do that to someone.

+1 Yes, I think it is really horrible to do that to someone. Planning an exit years in advance is pretty horrible. If you know you will leave, just end it and dont' delay the damage and steal years of another person's life. So wrong.

I agree. I think the people that stay until their kids leave for college are particularly awful.

My husband says he stays because he doesn’t want to not see the kids when he wants. Yet he doesn’t do anything with or for the kids.

Image is everything, so is self delusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why people say staying together is a bad idea where there is no animosity or yelling and just a drifting apart. I may consider splitting up once kids are out of the house just so we can each find joy for our second act. But I love providing an intact family for my kids. Even if we split, spouse and I will still be on good terms.

You must think your kids are unintelligent then. Kids are actually very smart and pick up on this lack of love. And it can effect how they behave in their own relationships down the line. I found that out the hard way, and have heard many many stories in a similar vein. Please ask any kid who grew up like this if they are glad their parents stayed together.

Kids are ridiculously poor judges of what is good for them. They don't have an ability to meaningfully compare two situations, because it's not a mommy and daddy with love vs. mommy and daddy without love. It's like this. It's either mommy and daddy without love, OR:

- shuffling between the houses of mommy and daddy, and these houses are probably smaller, grungier and further away
- possibly changing neighborhoods, schools, routines
- less money for travel and extracurriculars
- less money for college. College loans!
- potentially new partners, step siblings, less money, less attention, less everything
- constant bickering over who gets what holiday
- constant bickering over who you'll visit next and when
- hard end of life decisions when both elderly parents need care, and cannot help each other like they normally would. So now instead of dealing with one elderly parent you are dealing with two separate sets of problems. Have fun adding this to your plate.

Now mommy and daddy without love don't look so bad, do they.

By the way, the way you behave in your own relationship down the line is on you. You are in charge now, not mommy or daddy. No blame, no credit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of divorces at empty nest time.

Many are blind-sided because they didn't know their spouse was just hanging around waiting for their kids to leave and secretly planning their escape. It's quite tragic to do that to someone.

+1 Yes, I think it is really horrible to do that to someone. Planning an exit years in advance is pretty horrible. If you know you will leave, just end it and dont' delay the damage and steal years of another person's life. So wrong.

I agree. I think the people that stay until their kids leave for college are particularly awful.

Are these Gray Divorces 95% filed by women? Women who worked, kept the house, raised and parented the kids, planned everything, maintained the social schedule, —-basically selflessly gave a damn and worked their @$$e$ off on all fronts while their partner did nothing or did nothing but an ungrateful paycheck and build his ego at work?

All the ones I've seen in my neighborhood, kids' friends' parents, it's been the man cutting and running. I'm sure it goes both ways though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why people say staying together is a bad idea where there is no animosity or yelling and just a drifting apart. I may consider splitting up once kids are out of the house just so we can each find joy for our second act. But I love providing an intact family for my kids. Even if we split, spouse and I will still be on good terms.

You must think your kids are unintelligent then. Kids are actually very smart and pick up on this lack of love. And it can effect how they behave in their own relationships down the line. I found that out the hard way, and have heard many many stories in a similar vein. Please ask any kid who grew up like this if they are glad their parents stayed together.

Kids are ridiculously poor judges of what is good for them. They don't have an ability to meaningfully compare two situations, because it's not a mommy and daddy with love vs. mommy and daddy without love. It's like this. It's either mommy and daddy without love, OR:

- shuffling between the houses of mommy and daddy, and these houses are probably smaller, grungier and further away
- possibly changing neighborhoods, schools, routines
- less money for travel and extracurriculars
- less money for college. College loans!
- potentially new partners, step siblings, less money, less attention, less everything
- constant bickering over who gets what holiday
- constant bickering over who you'll visit next and when
- hard end of life decisions when both elderly parents need care, and cannot help each other like they normally would. So now instead of dealing with one elderly parent you are dealing with two separate sets of problems. Have fun adding this to your plate.

Now mommy and daddy without love don't look so bad, do they.

By the way, the way you behave in your own relationship down the line is on you. You are in charge now, not mommy or daddy. No blame, no credit.

I think you are mistaking what you care about as what 'kids' care about. When my parents divorced, we did not care at all about the things you listed. Not everyone cares about living in a big Mcmansion or "money to travel". Our parents were happier and we were much happier. Our parents were adults and rarely fought or bickered in front of us. Oh, and yes we were significantly poorer. That actually benefitted our college loans situation as we got more financial aid money.

Kids are very astute and learn a lot of relationship patterns from their parents. I spent years with unhappy parents before they divorced and it was so much better for me when they separated. Now, that may be because I valued happiness over having a huge house or trips to Europe or expensive sport camps. I can see how for kids who are raised to value a big house and more money it would be upsetting to have fewer financial resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why people say staying together is a bad idea where there is no animosity or yelling and just a drifting apart. I may consider splitting up once kids are out of the house just so we can each find joy for our second act. But I love providing an intact family for my kids. Even if we split, spouse and I will still be on good terms.

If it is affection-less and sexless too and no time together as part of the "drifiting apart" then you are showing a bad example of what a marriage should be. If you are still acting like a family, sleeping togehter and show affection, then okay, stay married, I guess. But your kids are going to think you lied to them about their childhood when you divorce when they are adults and wonder why you did that.

divorcing when there is no blatant arguing or abuse in the house is also a bad example of what marriage should be.

I agree, at least it’s not worse than divorcing. I plan in leaving after the kids are out of the house. But I have many reasons, I don’t want to leave the family home which is likely have to do, I think it’s important to have a family unit, we play games together, have movie nights, go on vacation together. We don’t always get along but we can for the sake of the kids. As for them noticing, sure they see us arguing but I think the benefits outweigh divorce. Also to each their own, everyone’s circumstances are different. As for planning for the future, I’m saving for retirement more aggressively as his retirement is more than double mine. I discussed moving near my sister or my bff who are both unmarried for retirement.

My ex and I divorced the year after the kids left. I initiated it. I remarried and he is in a great long term relationship. We married very young. We are still friends. Sadly, I became a youngish widow this year. No more marriage for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why people say staying together is a bad idea where there is no animosity or yelling and just a drifting apart. I may consider splitting up once kids are out of the house just so we can each find joy for our second act. But I love providing an intact family for my kids. Even if we split, spouse and I will still be on good terms.

You must think your kids are unintelligent then. Kids are actually very smart and pick up on this lack of love. And it can effect how they behave in their own relationships down the line. I found that out the hard way, and have heard many many stories in a similar vein. Please ask any kid who grew up like this if they are glad their parents stayed together.

Kids are ridiculously poor judges of what is good for them. They don't have an ability to meaningfully compare two situations, because it's not a mommy and daddy with love vs. mommy and daddy without love. It's like this. It's either mommy and daddy without love, OR:

- shuffling between the houses of mommy and daddy, and these houses are probably smaller, grungier and further away
- possibly changing neighborhoods, schools, routines
- less money for travel and extracurriculars
- less money for college. College loans!
- potentially new partners, step siblings, less money, less attention, less everything
- constant bickering over who gets what holiday
- constant bickering over who you'll visit next and when
- hard end of life decisions when both elderly parents need care, and cannot help each other like they normally would. So now instead of dealing with one elderly parent you are dealing with two separate sets of problems. Have fun adding this to your plate.

Now mommy and daddy without love don't look so bad, do they.

By the way, the way you behave in your own relationship down the line is on you. You are in charge now, not mommy or daddy. No blame, no credit.

I think you are mistaking what you care about as what 'kids' care about. When my parents divorced, we did not care at all about the things you listed. Not everyone cares about living in a big Mcmansion or "money to travel". Our parents were happier and we were much happier. Our parents were adults and rarely fought or bickered in front of us. Oh, and yes we were significantly poorer. That actually benefitted our college loans situation as we got more financial aid money.

Kids are very astute and learn a lot of relationship patterns from their parents. I spent years with unhappy parents before they divorced and it was so much better for me when they separated. Now, that may be because I valued happiness over having a huge house or trips to Europe or expensive sport camps. I can see how for kids who are raised to value a big house and more money it would be upsetting to have fewer financial resources.

Your relationship patterns are your responsibility, the cord has been cut a long time ago. If you were astute, you'd know that.

Kids don't care about things like this because they don't have enough brains to think about things like this. No kid thinks, ugh, my parents are divorcing so I'm looking at two sets of eldercare expenses. Or ugh, mommy wants Christmas this year and daddy too, what to do!

Now, if you were happier to see one of your parents less, it probably says something either about you or your parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not better for the kids- period.

It is better if you are not fighting and get along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why people say staying together is a bad idea where there is no animosity or yelling and just a drifting apart. I may consider splitting up once kids are out of the house just so we can each find joy for our second act. But I love providing an intact family for my kids. Even if we split, spouse and I will still be on good terms.

I agree. I think for women in particular, there is an ability to see your life in seasons, and you could easily even enjoy the season of your life as a family living together, while also looking forward to a different season where you will be alone. You could create a happy and fulfilling family life with family vacations, togetherness, even sex and intimacy with your partner, but then look forward to independence and solitude after your children are grown.

But women tend to be planners (we are shoved into it young no matter what, so we get good at it). Men are much more likely to just float from one major life event to the next, and thus I think would be much more scared of this idea. They are more likely to become wholly reliant on their partners for all their life planning, and to struggle with a transition to empty nesting and retirement. So I think it would be difficult to get two partners on the same page with this idea. On the other hand, since men don't tend to plan anyway, it would be easy to go through the motions with this kind of partner, as they would likely ask very few questions about your plans after the kids leave.

It would make no sense to divorce then or plan to divorce. and I say this as someone who says staying for the kids is a bad idea. If you still have intimacy with a husband and family time, then no, you should not divorce. But if it affectionless and empty, then divorce.

Disagree.
You can be present and enjoy the moment you are in and still have a new season ahead of you.
I look forward to this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why people say staying together is a bad idea where there is no animosity or yelling and just a drifting apart. I may consider splitting up once kids are out of the house just so we can each find joy for our second act. But I love providing an intact family for my kids. Even if we split, spouse and I will still be on good terms.

You must think your kids are unintelligent then. Kids are actually very smart and pick up on this lack of love. And it can effect how they behave in their own relationships down the line. I found that out the hard way, and have heard many many stories in a similar vein. Please ask any kid who grew up like this if they are glad their parents stayed together.

Kids are ridiculously poor judges of what is good for them. They don't have an ability to meaningfully compare two situations, because it's not a mommy and daddy with love vs. mommy and daddy without love. It's like this. It's either mommy and daddy without love, OR:

- shuffling between the houses of mommy and daddy, and these houses are probably smaller, grungier and further away
- possibly changing neighborhoods, schools, routines
- less money for travel and extracurriculars
- less money for college. College loans!
- potentially new partners, step siblings, less money, less attention, less everything
- constant bickering over who gets what holiday
- constant bickering over who you'll visit next and when
- hard end of life decisions when both elderly parents need care, and cannot help each other like they normally would. So now instead of dealing with one elderly parent you are dealing with two separate sets of problems. Have fun adding this to your plate.

Now mommy and daddy without love don't look so bad, do they.

By the way, the way you behave in your own relationship down the line is on you. You are in charge now, not mommy or daddy. No blame, no credit.

I think you are mistaking what you care about as what 'kids' care about. When my parents divorced, we did not care at all about the things you listed. Not everyone cares about living in a big Mcmansion or "money to travel". Our parents were happier and we were much happier. Our parents were adults and rarely fought or bickered in front of us. Oh, and yes we were significantly poorer. That actually benefitted our college loans situation as we got more financial aid money.

Kids are very astute and learn a lot of relationship patterns from their parents. I spent years with unhappy parents before they divorced and it was so much better for me when they separated. Now, that may be because I valued happiness over having a huge house or trips to Europe or expensive sport camps. I can see how for kids who are raised to value a big house and more money it would be upsetting to have fewer financial resources.

Your relationship patterns are your responsibility, the cord has been cut a long time ago. If you were astute, you'd know that.

Kids don't care about things like this because they don't have enough brains to think about things like this. No kid thinks, ugh, my parents are divorcing so I'm looking at two sets of eldercare expenses. Or ugh, mommy wants Christmas this year and daddy too, what to do!

Now, if you were happier to see one of your parents less, it probably says something either about you or your parent.

I’m sorry that you were traumatized by your parents divorce. I wasn’t and have great relationships with my parents and siblings. I’d suggest therapy since it sounds like you are still very angered by people who have different experiences than you. Hugs sweetie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why people say staying together is a bad idea where there is no animosity or yelling and just a drifting apart. I may consider splitting up once kids are out of the house just so we can each find joy for our second act. But I love providing an intact family for my kids. Even if we split, spouse and I will still be on good terms.

You must think your kids are unintelligent then. Kids are actually very smart and pick up on this lack of love. And it can effect how they behave in their own relationships down the line. I found that out the hard way, and have heard many many stories in a similar vein. Please ask any kid who grew up like this if they are glad their parents stayed together.

Kids are ridiculously poor judges of what is good for them. They don't have an ability to meaningfully compare two situations, because it's not a mommy and daddy with love vs. mommy and daddy without love. It's like this. It's either mommy and daddy without love, OR:

- shuffling between the houses of mommy and daddy, and these houses are probably smaller, grungier and further away
- possibly changing neighborhoods, schools, routines
- less money for travel and extracurriculars
- less money for college. College loans!
- potentially new partners, step siblings, less money, less attention, less everything
- constant bickering over who gets what holiday
- constant bickering over who you'll visit next and when
- hard end of life decisions when both elderly parents need care, and cannot help each other like they normally would. So now instead of dealing with one elderly parent you are dealing with two separate sets of problems. Have fun adding this to your plate.

Now mommy and daddy without love don't look so bad, do they.

By the way, the way you behave in your own relationship down the line is on you. You are in charge now, not mommy or daddy. No blame, no credit.

I think you are mistaking what you care about as what 'kids' care about. When my parents divorced, we did not care at all about the things you listed. Not everyone cares about living in a big Mcmansion or "money to travel". Our parents were happier and we were much happier. Our parents were adults and rarely fought or bickered in front of us. Oh, and yes we were significantly poorer. That actually benefitted our college loans situation as we got more financial aid money.

Kids are very astute and learn a lot of relationship patterns from their parents. I spent years with unhappy parents before they divorced and it was so much better for me when they separated. Now, that may be because I valued happiness over having a huge house or trips to Europe or expensive sport camps. I can see how for kids who are raised to value a big house and more money it would be upsetting to have fewer financial resources.

Your relationship patterns are your responsibility, the cord has been cut a long time ago. If you were astute, you'd know that.

Kids don't care about things like this because they don't have enough brains to think about things like this. No kid thinks, ugh, my parents are divorcing so I'm looking at two sets of eldercare expenses. Or ugh, mommy wants Christmas this year and daddy too, what to do!

Now, if you were happier to see one of your parents less, it probably says something either about you or your parent.

I’m sorry that you were traumatized by your parents divorce. I wasn’t and have great relationships with my parents and siblings. I’d suggest therapy since it sounds like you are still very angered by people who have different experiences than you. Hugs sweetie.

My parents were together till the day my father died. They probably didn't have much love for each other for the last twenty years. I am nevertheless happy I didn't have to deal with eldercare hassles for my father, or take my mother to doctor's appointments, or do any one of the myriad things aging parents can't do for themselves any more. Or split grandchildren visit time. Or figure out who is getting a Christmas visit, or who sits where at weddings, or who attends what. You honestly sound too young to understand what end of life looks like with divorced parents, or how much easier it is when they are still together. People like you don't anger me. Glibness does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why people say staying together is a bad idea where there is no animosity or yelling and just a drifting apart. I may consider splitting up once kids are out of the house just so we can each find joy for our second act. But I love providing an intact family for my kids. Even if we split, spouse and I will still be on good terms.

You must think your kids are unintelligent then. Kids are actually very smart and pick up on this lack of love. And it can effect how they behave in their own relationships down the line. I found that out the hard way, and have heard many many stories in a similar vein. Please ask any kid who grew up like this if they are glad their parents stayed together.

better than anecdotal evidence, look at the actual evidence. This has been studied many times, and the facts are clear: kids do much better if their parents stay together, as long as there is no abuse.

+1

I always think the argument that staying together unhappy will damage the kids is ridiculous. I am one of three kids from a somewhat unhappy household: one of us is single, one of us is extremely happily married and the other is divorced. Three different outcomes from the same household. And you are also not factoring in other life events that cause people to end marriages. For instance my sibling’s divorce was a result of severe mental illness. Not my parents’ marriage.

[Anonymous]

Yup—from a family of 6 with parents happily married 70 years. 2 of us have dream marriages, 2 super shitty marriages, 2 pretty average regular bumpy road marriages. All from the same house. People just don’t want to believe that luck and individual circumstances play a bigger factor than whether your parents got along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why people say staying together is a bad idea where there is no animosity or yelling and just a drifting apart. I may consider splitting up once kids are out of the house just so we can each find joy for our second act. But I love providing an intact family for my kids. Even if we split, spouse and I will still be on good terms.

You must think your kids are unintelligent then. Kids are actually very smart and pick up on this lack of love. And it can effect how they behave in their own relationships down the line. I found that out the hard way, and have heard many many stories in a similar vein. Please ask any kid who grew up like this if they are glad their parents stayed together.

better than anecdotal evidence, look at the actual evidence. This has been studied many times, and the facts are clear: kids do much better if their parents stay together, as long as there is no abuse.

+1

I always think the argument that staying together unhappy will damage the kids is ridiculous. I am one of three kids from a somewhat unhappy household: one of us is single, one of us is extremely happily married and the other is divorced. Three different outcomes from the same household. And you are also not factoring in other life events that cause people to end marriages. For instance my sibling’s divorce was a result of severe mental illness. Not my parents’ marriage.

I would like to see the latest research on this.