Affair at work - post from a few weeks ago

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the ap also married?

Yes, according to what OP posted in the past.

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm surprised the therapist isn't helping you think through the realities of a divorce. You won't be able to buy a 5 bedroom house. Your ex and his ex won't just appear when you want to do grown-up things with the new love and then disappear when you want to do family activities. Your ex will get a new girlfriend, one who may or may not be appropriate for your children to associate with. My personal opinion is that your lover won't leave his wife. How will you feel when you're sitting alone waiting for him to come over? What about when he makes plans to see you only to cancel at the last minute because "Billy really needs help with his science project...you understand right?" To me, this guy sounds like the type who enjoys sneaking around more then he enjoys an honest healthy relationship. I can also guarantee you that you aren't the first. Given that this all got going at work, and he was your supervisor, I wouldn't bet on him remaining faithful to you or protecting his livelihood should the two of you have a relationship that is in the clear. Your therapist is doing you no favors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: The therapist said it's stress that is responsible for the way I am. That under so much stress (young kids who are going through sibling rivalry daily, moving, grad school, etc) I let go of my boundaries.

The therapist said we need to stop seeing each other, talking, and communication by an other means to understand if what we have is real or if it will go away. She says I am not ready to stop seeing him now and I need to set a limit on the number of times we see each other and then put a hold on the relationship.

The therapist says it's clear I never loved my husband even though he is a good husband and a great dad, and that if it's not my AP I would eventually leave my husband anyway.

I've pulled out of your post the things that you have gleaned from therapy. I am sure that it is more complicated than what you've posted, but here goes:

1) As a therapist, I partially agree that stress may be causing you to behave desperately. This is not a pass. You can recognize the cause of your dysfunction and then address the cause, rather than behaving desperately. What sorts of things make you feel less stressed other than your AP? Engage in those things.

2) Your therapist is contradicting herself by saying that you need to stop seeing him, but then saying that you're not ready to stop seeing him. I can understand why a therapist would suggest limiting your contact with your AP if she thinks that you're not ready to quit seeing him cold turkey. I don't know what I would advise in this situation without knowing you, but I will say that if you have intimated to your therapist that you are not ABLE to stop seeing him (because you work together, because you're addicted to him, whatever), she may be suggesting that you limit contact because it is the only option you've left open. I think it's also important for PPs to note that it's not the therapist's job to convince the OP not to see her AP. Giving clients ultimatums is a really good way to damage the therapeutic relationship, and since the OP isn't committing any crimes or putting anyone in physical danger, the therapist's job is to work with the OP to resolve the things that the OP identifies as being wrong with her life. If the OP doesn't want to stop seeing her AP, the therapist would be out of line in requiring her to do so. If a client's behavior gets to a point where a therapist can no longer provide counseling, then they can terminate the relationship, following whatever protocol is in place for that in their practice. But as distasteful as many of us may find lying, cheating, etc., it's not our job to pass judgment on the client.

3) It is completely inappropriate for your therapist to offer an opinion about whether you loved your husband or not. Is it possible that this was posed as a question to you, rather than a declarative statement? Is it possible that this is something that YOU said that your therapist was exploring further and you took that exploration as her agreeing with you?

4) I think there is probably some truth to the statement that if it wasn't your AP, it would be something or someone else. You are trying to fix something that is broken in you and your marriage, and your affair is what you are using to fix it. It won't work. You need to focus on YOU. One thing that I think is worth thinking about is the degree to which your affair is responsible for your perception that you are unhappy in your marriage. People who are having affairs are almost never thinking rationally about their situation. Would you leave your husband if AP was not an option?

It seems like you've gotten a lot of advice here and on your previous thread about your situation. It also seems like you aren't really willing to hear any advice that doesn't validate what you want. Many people here probably have experience with your situation in one way or another, but it seems like you think that things will be different for you. There are real consequences to divorcing in this situation. Your kids will have a hard time. Your husband may challenge any kind of joint custody arrangement. Your AP may not actually leave his wife. That happens a lot - a couple will agree that they're going to leave their spouses, and then one partner decides not to for whatever reason, leaving the one who did leave alone. Is that something that you are prepared for?

[Anonymous]

To avoid throwing OP's therapist under the bus, it's yet to be determined whether (1) the therapist is doing the old consulting trick of "saying what you want to hear and getting paid for it" or (2) OP's just hearing what she wants to hear from the therapist.

[Anonymous]

OP, are you seriously telling us that you are willing to divorce your husband and leave your children for a man who you have had a fling with, and haven't lived a real life with? You know, a real life with your fantasy guy will include stressors, chores, competing schedules particularly factoring in the fact that you will both presumably want to see your children.

Also, he has a hairy ass, and shits stinky poos, and probably leaves dirty socks on the floor.

The truth of the matter is that you have absolutely no idea what real life with this guy would be like. None. It is easy for things to seem rosy when you are engaging in secret meet-ups that also provide an escape from the hard realities of life with a career and children.

And WTF are you doing introducing him to one of your children??? Don't you think that once you leave your family, and then are an item with this guy, your child will put the pieces of the puzzle together and figure out that the family fell apart because mom had an affair?

You are seriously delusional and you need to get a new therapist.

[Anonymous]

To the 9:06 therapist. Thank you for your message and for reading. Thank you everyone else for your responses and advice, too.

No, I wouldn't leave my DH if AP wasn't in the picture. I thought about leaving him before we had kids because even though we do enjoy spending time together, we are different on an intellectual level, which I understood only when I started meeting and talking to people at work. I married young (I was in my early twenties, and he was in his mid-thirties), but I always felt the older one in the relationship. I had temptations to cheat over the years, but I never acted on them, until this time. I wouldn't leave if AP wasn't in the picture because DH is a good, caring husband, a wonderful dad, we have a good sex life (2x/week), and generally get along well. He would be a good catch for most women.

I already have an age difference of 13 years with my DH, but with AP it's 20+. I understand that it's not a good idea to marry someone so much older. I also don't want to break up two families and cause devastation.

I understand that my AP might be going through midlife crisis, that he possibly wants me because I give him what his wife won't - attention, care, physical touch. I do not think he targeted me and I do not think there were others before me. We still haven't had sex, and it was me who made the first step (I kissed him first). I understand it might not be love. But it feels like love.

I tried kissing my DH how AP and I kiss. It's just not the same at all. I understand that they are two different people, but i do not enjoy kissing my DH. He doesn't use his tongue (and when I ask him to try it's awkward and not enjoyable), his lips are not firm like my AP's lips, he is 50 lbs lighter than AP, so I don't feel as comfortable in his arms. It's just not the same. This part didn't bother me before I met AP. DH and I never kissed a lot, just a peck on the lips most days, and somewhat passionately for a couple of minutes before making love. With AP, it's different. I enjoy and savor every second, and we kiss for long periods. I know I am not a teenager, and kissing is not and should not be important, and I never thought it was important until I met AP and experienced this.

My DH is going to his first marriage counseling session today to talk about how to make our relationship better. I think I will try doing that too. I will try not seeing my AP and seeing if I can improve things at home. I know I can stay in my marriage and be somewhat happy, but I know that after having what I have with AP, things with DH will never be the same, because now I know what passion is and how things could be. I know that a marriage is not all about passion and that there are chores and responsibilities, but believe it or not, but we never argue with DH about this stuff because we split chores equally and each of us does what we like.

The therapist did say all of those things. Maybe I misinterpreted some, and maybe I heard what I wanted to hear. I don't know now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the 9:06 therapist. Thank you for your message and for reading. Thank you everyone else for your responses and advice, too.

No, I wouldn't leave my DH if AP wasn't in the picture. I thought about leaving him before we had kids because even though we do enjoy spending time together, we are different on an intellectual level, which I understood only when I started meeting and talking to people at work. I married young (I was in my early twenties, and he was in his mid-thirties), but I always felt the older one in the relationship. I had temptations to cheat over the years, but I never acted on them, until this time. I wouldn't leave if AP wasn't in the picture because DH is a good, caring husband, a wonderful dad, we have a good sex life (2x/week), and generally get along well. He would be a good catch for most women.

I already have an age difference of 13 years with my DH, but with AP it's 20+. I understand that it's not a good idea to marry someone so much older. I also don't want to break up two families and cause devastation.

I understand that my AP might be going through midlife crisis, that he possibly wants me because I give him what his wife won't - attention, care, physical touch. I do not think he targeted me and I do not think there were others before me. We still haven't had sex, and it was me who made the first step (I kissed him first). I understand it might not be love. But it feels like love.

I tried kissing my DH how AP and I kiss. It's just not the same at all. I understand that they are two different people, but i do not enjoy kissing my DH. He doesn't use his tongue (and when I ask him to try it's awkward and not enjoyable), his lips are not firm like my AP's lips, he is 50 lbs lighter than AP, so I don't feel as comfortable in his arms. It's just not the same. This part didn't bother me before I met AP. DH and I never kissed a lot, just a peck on the lips most days, and somewhat passionately for a couple of minutes before making love. With AP, it's different. I enjoy and savor every second, and we kiss for long periods. I know I am not a teenager, and kissing is not and should not be important, and I never thought it was important until I met AP and experienced this.

My DH is going to his first marriage counseling session today to talk about how to make our relationship better. I think I will try doing that too. I will try not seeing my AP and seeing if I can improve things at home. I know I can stay in my marriage and be somewhat happy, but I know that after having what I have with AP, things with DH will never be the same, because now I know what passion is and how things could be. I know that a marriage is not all about passion and that there are chores and responsibilities, but believe it or not, but we never argue with DH about this stuff because we split chores equally and each of us does what we like.

The therapist did say all of those things. Maybe I misinterpreted some, and maybe I heard what I wanted to hear. I don't know now.

You still don't get the fact that this fling with the AP is perfect because of its newness, lack of being based in real life, etc. Of course it's more exciting to kiss a new person than the one who you have been kissing for 10 + years.

Your DH has no shot now, because you are going to continue to compare him with something that is not real, but is just a fantasy. Your DH can't live up to a fantasy.

Sure, you're going to "try" to go to counseling and "try" not seeing your AP "if I can improve things at home". Things at home will not improve unless you stop seeing your AP, and stop comparing your marriage to a fantasy.

Do or do not. There is no try.

[Anonymous]

I would also like to add that "passion" often comes with other tradeoffs. Sure, maybe you hook up with your AP and have passion that continues for years. But, you have absolutely zero idea how he would be in other areas, as a relationship partner.

I'm sure you fully bought into the fact that it's his wife who withholds affection and love from him, and he is just innocent in the whole thing.

Boy, you sound really naive for someone who is actually married with kids. You sound more like a 25-year-old who has absolutely no idea what it is like to be married and raise children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the 9:06 therapist. Thank you for your message and for reading. Thank you everyone else for your responses and advice, too.

No, I wouldn't leave my DH if AP wasn't in the picture. I thought about leaving him before we had kids because even though we do enjoy spending time together, we are different on an intellectual level, which I understood only when I started meeting and talking to people at work. I married young (I was in my early twenties, and he was in his mid-thirties), but I always felt the older one in the relationship. I had temptations to cheat over the years, but I never acted on them, until this time. I wouldn't leave if AP wasn't in the picture because DH is a good, caring husband, a wonderful dad, we have a good sex life (2x/week), and generally get along well. He would be a good catch for most women.

I already have an age difference of 13 years with my DH, but with AP it's 20+. I understand that it's not a good idea to marry someone so much older. I also don't want to break up two families and cause devastation.

I understand that my AP might be going through midlife crisis, that he possibly wants me because I give him what his wife won't - attention, care, physical touch. I do not think he targeted me and I do not think there were others before me. We still haven't had sex, and it was me who made the first step (I kissed him first). I understand it might not be love. But it feels like love.

I tried kissing my DH how AP and I kiss. It's just not the same at all. I understand that they are two different people, but i do not enjoy kissing my DH. He doesn't use his tongue (and when I ask him to try it's awkward and not enjoyable), his lips are not firm like my AP's lips, he is 50 lbs lighter than AP, so I don't feel as comfortable in his arms. It's just not the same. This part didn't bother me before I met AP. DH and I never kissed a lot, just a peck on the lips most days, and somewhat passionately for a couple of minutes before making love. With AP, it's different. I enjoy and savor every second, and we kiss for long periods. I know I am not a teenager, and kissing is not and should not be important, and I never thought it was important until I met AP and experienced this.

My DH is going to his first marriage counseling session today to talk about how to make our relationship better. I think I will try doing that too. I will try not seeing my AP and seeing if I can improve things at home. I know I can stay in my marriage and be somewhat happy, but I know that after having what I have with AP, things with DH will never be the same, because now I know what passion is and how things could be. I know that a marriage is not all about passion and that there are chores and responsibilities, but believe it or not, but we never argue with DH about this stuff because we split chores equally and each of us does what we like.

The therapist did say all of those things. Maybe I misinterpreted some, and maybe I heard what I wanted to hear. I don't know now.

9:06 here. A couple thoughts:

If you would not leave your marriage in AP wasn't in the picture, that really tells you all you need to know in this situation. The man is the plan. If a friend told you that this was their plan, what would you say? Do you have a daughter? If so, what if your daughter told you this? Your attempts to make your husband into your AP are doomed, and you know it. They're different people. If you stay with your husband, you can work on making your relationship with him more passionate - but you really can't do that while you are also having an affair.

Being awakened to passion is a big deal. For a lot of people, that happens when they are young and free to pursue passionate relationships and explore. That's not your situation. You are an adult married woman with children and other responsibilities that you cannot simply walk away from. I have a hard time believing that your job performance hasn't suffered as a result of your affair. I am really sorry that you're going through this. I know it's not easy, and I'm not going to pillory you like a lot of people on this site will. You know that what you're doing is not honest or kind. You don't need me to tell you that.

My first marriage sounds a lot like yours. I understand what it is like to have a really great on-paper marriage and be unhappy. Divorce doesn't make everything better. It's not a magic bullet. It's hard work, and no one wins. In the fog of your affair, you think that leaving your husband will result in some perfect relationship filled with passion, and that is almost never what happens. What is more likely is that you will leave your husband, your AP won't leave his wife, and then you'll be living in an apartment, seeing your kids on the weekends, and being even more stressed than you are now.

Finally, if you and your husband are going to marriage counseling, you cannot engage honestly in that process if you are still having an affair. It's not possible. If your husband is going to counseling with you, that is a sign to me that he is invested in trying to fix the things that you cite as problems. Does he have concerns of his own? Will you be willing to address those things as well? Regardless, none of that matters if you are still seeing your AP. You need to end the relationship with him and maintain very, very strict boundaries while you are trying to fix your marriage. I would also recommend you looking for a new job, but I didn't read your previous thread so I don't know what you/AP/etc. do.

[Anonymous]

OP, the harsh reality is; what keeps a marriage going is commitment, not love. Don't embarrass yourself, your kids and your H.

[Anonymous]

Op, have you explored with your therapist why you are pursuing older men? Why did you pick a thirty-something guy when you were in your 20's? And why are you pursuing this 20+ years older guy this time?

You do honestly sound very naive. And at the same time, I'd peg you as a strong risk to cheat on this new guy sometime down the road as well. You don't seem very self-aware, or to have alot of knowledge about relationships.

[Anonymous]

Stress did not cause this. Your poor character did.

You introduced him to your kids? You're gross.

Please tell your DH and let him decide what he wants do. You have no right to treat him this way. He has the expectation of a faithful wife. Tell him he does not have one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stress did not cause this. Your poor character did.

You introduced him to your kids? You're gross.

Please tell your DH and let him decide what he wants do. You have no right to treat him this way. He has the expectation of a faithful wife. Tell him he does not have one.

In the history of the internet, how many times have you seen an OP respond to something like this by saying, "You are absolutely right! I have poor character! Thank you for helping me see that I am terrible and gross!"? If not, then what is the purpose of posting this? Does it make you feel good?

[Anonymous]

Why aren't you looking for a new job, OP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stress did not cause this. Your poor character did.

You introduced him to your kids? You're gross.

Please tell your DH and let him decide what he wants do. You have no right to treat him this way. He has the expectation of a faithful wife. Tell him he does not have one.

In the history of the internet, how many times have you seen an OP respond to something like this by saying, "You are absolutely right! I have poor character! Thank you for helping me see that I am terrible and gross!"? If not, then what is the purpose of posting this? Does it make you feel good?

I don't know what caused this, stress, poor character, both, none, something else. This is why I am such a mess right now.

Kids are small. They know AP as mommy's colleague who went for a walk with us ones. We behaved very properly and talked about work issues. This was not gross. DH knows about this walk and knows about AP as my colleague but haven't met him. I met his child when he helped me with something. We again behaved properly, and it was not gross.