So weird, all the divorces.

[Anonymous]

A few couples in our circle have gotten divorced -- while I was surprised each time, I wouldn't say I was shocked in any case. I reassure myself by thinking that the divorced couples weren't in good marriages gone wrong, but rather people who got married too quickly, or for the wrong reasons, or who focused more on the wedding and less on the marriage. But that really is wishful thinking, I suspect.

[Anonymous]

People, you realize you do not truly know anyone until you actually live with them, I hope? The more "perfect" things seem in public, the more suspicious I am that the end is near. That goes especially if the couple (or either part of the couple) is a social climber and/or status conscious. There is NO keeping them happy! Run, don't walk!

[Anonymous]

Re contagious

Having friends go through a divorce brings it into the realm of the possible. That is, a good friend getting a divorce provides a glimpse into the possibilities of starting fresh in a relationship when the habits of your relationship are sometimes all too familiar. You can also see the difficulties that divorce can bring.

Watching friends has led me to the understanding that if something happened it would not be the end of the world, I could find a way to make it work for my kids and me on my own.

DH also has a friend going through what must be one of the most vindictive and needlessly expensive divorces we have ever heard of. That has actually made DH strangely appreciative of me (funny only because that wife and I could not be more different if we had come from different planets).

[Anonymous]

I agree that you can't know based on what the couple chooses to show. My parents have no problem getting pissy in public though they don't scream at eachother in public (saved that for private), but they have been happily married for close to 50 years. I'm sure quite a few people predicted the demise of their marriage. Heck there were some arguments where I even asked them why they were still together. They yelled and screamed, came to an agreement and then made up. The thing is-they had many positive interactions. They were not the type to be lovey dovey in public. They made sure to have many many date nights. They had plenty of friends who seemed like the perfect couples who didn't last. I don't think all that ensured the marriage would work. There were many factors, but I think those things helped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always feel like it would be impossible to fall out of love with your spouse once you've had children together -- having children just feels like such a bonding experience -- i can't imagine ever wanting to leave my spouse now that we have two kids. But you never know. It's scary to think how things can change quickly.

really?

Kids cause divorces!

not saying I hate my children . . . But the stress they add, the worry, the consuming of time - All that leaves little time for couple togetherness.

No kidding...Life was simple when we had little kids. We stayed home, cooked dinner together, played with the baby who wasn't talking back or slamming her bedroom door. We weren't splitting up the endless afterschool activities, fighting over who practices piano with our son or eating drive thru dinners in our respective cars as we shuttle different kids to different sports practices. Somehow all of that leaves little time for the 'bonding experience.'

I'm the first PP quoted. Guess I haven't gotten there yet. My kids are still both under 3. There's definitely less 'couple time' now, but I thought it would get better once they got older.

It doesn't have to be this way. Keep in mind that you are the adult committing to all of these activities for your child. If you don't over-schedule your kids and you make an effort to schedule family time and couple time it can be done.

I agree with this. Kids are way overscheduled these days and it is frankly the parents who make these decisions. The kids might WANT to do it all but the parents sign on the dotted line for all of these extra activities which take away from family time and couple time. My 13 year old has 2 activities, one sporadic and the other regular and it is plenty for him. Kids need to be taught how to say no by their parents sometimes I think. It is ok for them to focus on one or two things rather than 5. And school has more homework now too so the kids who I know who are over-scheduled are up until 2 studying now on top of everything else and just fried. I am a private music teacher FWIW. There is nothing wrong about prioritizing couples time when you are parents ABOVE the kids having yet another sleep over or activity/carpool. Makes perfect sense to me.

[Anonymous]

We were on the brink of divorce, and slowly putting things back together. I have some hope we might make it. We have two young kids and are in that 7-12 year range OP mentioned.

It sucks. My husband doesn't know if he wants to be married. He did some things in the last two years that greatly undermined our marriage (he didn't physically cheat though). We both made mistakes. If we divorce, it will be because he gave up and like a PP so eloquently put it, marriage is something you have to work on every single day and we didn't do that. But you have to be willing to try to do that once you hit rock bottom, and I think so many people just give up and walk away. And that is why second marriages fail moe than first, because people think the problem is the other person and they don't deal with their own issues and they don't put in the work. And all relationships take work. Especially once kids entered the picture....it's so hard to do the work of marriage, whether you both work or one of you stays home (both have their drawbacks and advantages I imagine).

The process of going through this is definitely the best thing that has ever happened to me, in that I'm discovering a strength I never knew I had and I'm learning so much about myself. I do not doubt my capacity to forgive, to love. My husband is coming around and realizing you just don't "fall out of love" and walk away and things are great. It was very scary, horrifying, to watch him throw up hands and see that marriage can be so fucking tenuous. But he was confused and hurt and lost and counseling and reconnecting has been incredibly hard and painful but it can work.

It's been interesting going through this. I shared with my best friend who I knew had been having problems of her own and she opened up how they almost got divorced. I had NO idea how bad things had gotten and what had gone on. I shared with a few other friends and some seem uncomfortable and don't want to engage and others have made it clear that things are not so great or they had a rough spot, he spent 6 months sleeping on the couch but they got past it, etc. It's crazy because in the Facebook age everyone seems to have perfect marriages.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone enter marriage anymore and just not consider divorce an option? We've been married for 25 years. We have five children. We've had some rough times. But we made a commitment to each other and we took our wedding vows very seriously. My husband knows that he is the most important person in my life. He takes priority over the kids, our parents, our extended family, our friends....

We have several friends who have divorced over the years. The common theme seems to be a lack of respect from the wife. Next time you are out with your friends, listen to the way they talk about their husbands. How do you talk to your own husband at home? Do you speak negatively about him to friends? Does he feel loved and most of all respected. All you have to do is turn on the television....commercial after commercial depict men as stupid creatures that could not possibly survive without the help of their (nagging, condescending) wives. Think about the number of television shows that make men look inept.

Women need to feel safe and loved. Men, above all else, need to feel respected. If your husband doesn't feel valued and respected at home, there are plenty of women out there who will give him those things. It's not right. But it's reality. Men need to be the "king of their castle".

[Anonymous]

Does anyone enter marriage anymore and just not consider divorce an option? We've been married for 25 years.
>>>>>>>>>>>
Sure. I didn't consider it an option when he cheated on my - the first time. When shockingly, he decided that he just didn't really LIKE kids or parenting (after I gave birth). When he lost his good paying job and just decided not to go back to work. When he knocked me up with # 2 - and told me to have an abortion. I was a MARRIED woman with a job, a home, food, medical care - and my own husband told me to abort his child. Then I caught him having an affair with a Christian Minister. While we were in therapy, at my insistence. And don't even get me started on the many, many lies.

So at what point would a person who actually DOES value comittment decide that, even though they swore they would never get divorced... maybe they must do so anyway?

[Anonymous]

Ok Tarzan

[Anonymous]

Interesting thread. A year after we married, we knew three couples who divorced within months of each other. We were not surprised, but it was sad for each of them. We've known a few other couples to divorce in more recent years. Again, neither were surprised, but was particularly sad. One had been married nearly 20 years. The other one was a couple I knew through DH. He eventually became quite dismayed with the husband - an old college friend - who basically initiated separation, then took up with a younger woman to make it "easier for his wife to hate him." Yes, seriously.

[Anonymous]

We probably seem to everyone to be a happily married couple. We've been married 6 years, together for almost 9, and have two young kids. We're pretty social and are pretty loving with each other - never bicker or anything in public. We have a nice little house and happy kids and everything probably seems great to everyone else. But only my best friend knows that my husband cheated on me last year. It was just a physical affair and very brief, but was utterly devastating to me. We have been in counseling and he has been great. I am trying desperately to forgive because of the kids. But we'll see. I'm sure everyone who knows us would be shocked if they knew this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone enter marriage anymore and just not consider divorce an option? We've been married for 25 years. We have five children. We've had some rough times. But we made a commitment to each other and we took our wedding vows very seriously. My husband knows that he is the most important person in my life. He takes priority over the kids, our parents, our extended family, our friends....

We have several friends who have divorced over the years. The common theme seems to be a lack of respect from the wife. Next time you are out with your friends, listen to the way they talk about their husbands. How do you talk to your own husband at home? Do you speak negatively about him to friends? Does he feel loved and most of all respected. All you have to do is turn on the television....commercial after commercial depict men as stupid creatures that could not possibly survive without the help of their (nagging, condescending) wives. Think about the number of television shows that make men look inept.

Women need to feel safe and loved. Men, above all else, need to feel respected. If your husband doesn't feel valued and respected at home, there are plenty of women out there who will give him those things. It's not right. But it's reality. Men need to be the "king of their castle".

I agree with a lot of what you wrote. But just because I don't consider divorce an option, doesn't mean my husband feels that way. It really only takes one person to divorce. The thing is though I agree with what you said, I am probably guilty of condescending my husband, but he has hurt me a lot over the years. Once the passion phase ended, he started prioritizing everything in his life over me, including other friends. He stopped putting me first pretty early on, and he has some intimacy issues and has used sex as a weapon. So I didn't feel secure or supported, and it was hard for me to let him feel like the king of his castle. It has to work both ways or someone suffers, badly.

What I am learning is that though both of caused problems in our marriage, it only takes one person to really heal a marriage. What I mean by that is that by putting my needs aside for a while, and giving him what he needs, he will want to (and is, slowly) give me what I need. The problem is that people tend to not be able to bite that bullet and be the patient, kind, forgiving one when the other spouse is being the opposite. But if you can do that, I am finding that the other person does slowly change.

I'm learning so much and am reading a great book by John Gottman about how a couple needs to build their "bank" of positive interactions and the more you have in your bank, the less negative interactions affect you (because they are inevitable). Anyway I posted before and we are making a lot of progress. I think we have the potential to have a great marriage - and a deeper love. But it does take work!

Interestingly I read that the vast majority of divorces in this country are instigated by women, and the number 1 reason is "mental cruelty." It is because women need to feel secure and supported and it's easy for a man to let that go once they are married and are done with that passion phase. So it's not just women being condescending. The men of this country have a lot to learn - it starts with how we raise our sons. We have to let them know it's okay to feel things, to get hurt, to be vulnerable. A lot of men have trouble with that and it can cause problems. Understanding gender differences is hugely helpful! Women need security and men need to feel competent. But women think men need what they need and they can inadvertantly undermine the man by offering that, and men think women need what men need and they can undermine the woman by offering that. It's why a man always tries to solve our problems when sometimes we just want them to listen and sympathize.

Just curious, did you go through a bad rough patch at all earlier in your marriage?

[Anonymous]

"Think about the number of television shows that make men look inept."

Mostly produced and written by men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always feel like it would be impossible to fall out of love with your spouse once you've had children together -- having children just feels like such a bonding experience -- i can't imagine ever wanting to leave my spouse now that we have two kids. But you never know. It's scary to think how things can change quickly.

Get your head out of the clouds and stop looking through rose colored glasses. Children are one of the main reasons couples drift apart because, usually, the mother pays little, if any, attention to her DH (I am a wife, FWIW). Both partners take each other for granted. A marriage has to be worked on every single day of the year. I read some of the things women post on DCUM about their husbands and there is no doubt these marriages aren't going to last.

You sound like a peach to live with. Please great psychic tell us more about your predictions...

For the record...the research suggests it's not so much about complaints and disagreements, it's about HOW those disagreements are handled and the ratio of positive to negative interactions. If you have 5 times more positive interactions, but you get annoyed sometimes, it doesn't mean you are going to divorce. Haven't seen any research about those who vent on DCUM so our great psychic master is talking out of her a$$.

New poster here. Well, research actually says that the number one reason for divorce for couples with children is INFIDELITY. It has NOTHING to do with disagreements and positive or negative interactions.

Your post is very naive. Disagreements do not cause infidelity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting thread. A year after we married, we knew three couples who divorced within months of each other. We were not surprised, but it was sad for each of them. We've known a few other couples to divorce in more recent years. Again, neither were surprised, but was particularly sad. One had been married nearly 20 years. The other one was a couple I knew through DH. He eventually became quite dismayed with the husband - an old college friend - who basically initiated separation, then took up with a younger woman to make it "easier for his wife to hate him." Yes, seriously.

I have an old college friend who's done this in the past year. NYC broker? I've been kind of appalled, not so much by the behavior of the guy (which, knowing him is not all that surprising) but by the juvenile way he's splashed it all over FB.