So weird, all the divorces.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm another one of those people who shocked people with news of my divorce. We never aired our dirty laundry and in public we were always great, always funny and happy and loving. Even now, when we're out with the kids at an event or party, there are people who don't realize we aren't together. And because we've decided to continue keeping our business our business, most people still can't figure out what went wrong (and believe me, they aren't shy about asking).

I know that it makes some people in our lives nuts that we won't reveal too much about our issues, and I get that it's more than just morbid curiosity, that people are trying to figure out if our issues are their issues too and if they should worry. But seriously, if you have a friend or acquaintance who is divorcing and they aren't offering up reasons for the decision, do them the biggest favor on earth and don't press for why.

So sorry for what you have gone through. Your post really made me think. I don't press the couples I know who are divorcing for details. I do wonder, and people do talk behind their backs. And that is where it gets messy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone enter marriage anymore and just not consider divorce an option? We've been married for 25 years. We have five children. We've had some rough times. But we made a commitment to each other and we took our wedding vows very seriously. My husband knows that he is the most important person in my life. He takes priority over the kids, our parents, our extended family, our friends....

We have several friends who have divorced over the years. The common theme seems to be a lack of respect from the wife. Next time you are out with your friends, listen to the way they talk about their husbands. How do you talk to your own husband at home? Do you speak negatively about him to friends? Does he feel loved and most of all respected. All you have to do is turn on the television....commercial after commercial depict men as stupid creatures that could not possibly survive without the help of their (nagging, condescending) wives. Think about the number of television shows that make men look inept.

Women need to feel safe and loved. Men, above all else, need to feel respected. If your husband doesn't feel valued and respected at home, there are plenty of women out there who will give him those things. It's not right. But it's reality. Men need to be the "king of their castle".

So, women don't need to feel respected? All men need are to feel respected and to be the "king of their castle?" I don't even know what that means!!!! King of their freakin' castle? Please tell me you are a SAHM that needs to believe this in order to justify that you have an important role to take care of this "king of your castle.". Honestly, if my DH ever said this to me I would laugh so hard I'd pee myself!

We both work f/t, have built our life together (including that not-so-castle-like house we live in) and share all of the household and child rearing activities 50/50. I say that respect needs to go both ways and both partners need to feel loved.

If there are any women who think he's not being treated like a man should, please come and clean my house and take care of my "king" so I can go off for a spa day and feel like a queen!

[Anonymous]

10:37, I feel as you do, so we must both be outliers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone enter marriage anymore and just not consider divorce an option? We've been married for 25 years. We have five children. We've had some rough times. But we made a commitment to each other and we took our wedding vows very seriously. My husband knows that he is the most important person in my life. He takes priority over the kids, our parents, our extended family, our friends....

We have several friends who have divorced over the years. The common theme seems to be a lack of respect from the wife. Next time you are out with your friends, listen to the way they talk about their husbands. How do you talk to your own husband at home? Do you speak negatively about him to friends? Does he feel loved and most of all respected. All you have to do is turn on the television....commercial after commercial depict men as stupid creatures that could not possibly survive without the help of their (nagging, condescending) wives. Think about the number of television shows that make men look inept.

Women need to feel safe and loved. Men, above all else, need to feel respected. If your husband doesn't feel valued and respected at home, there are plenty of women out there who will give him those things. It's not right. But it's reality. Men need to be the "king of their castle".

So, women don't need to feel respected? All men need are to feel respected and to be the "king of their castle?" I don't even know what that means!!!! King of their freakin' castle? Please tell me you are a SAHM that needs to believe this in order to justify that you have an important role to take care of this "king of your castle.". Honestly, if my DH ever said this to me I would laugh so hard I'd pee myself!

We both work f/t, have built our life together (including that not-so-castle-like house we live in) and share all of the household and child rearing activities 50/50. I say that respect needs to go both ways and both partners need to feel loved.

If there are any women who think he's not being treated like a man should, please come and clean my house and take care of my "king" so I can go off for a spa day and feel like a queen!

you may laugh, but the PP is right. there are huge genetic and evolutionary differences between men and women. men and women have different needs.

I think that's all crap. People may have different needs, but stereotyping it by gender is irrating to me. It's along the lines that I *must* have some guilt about being a working mom. I had some brief moments after my kids were born where I wondered if there was something wrong with me as a person for not feeling guilt AT ALL for going back to work after my kids were born. My DH and both missed our LOs and loved to rush pick them up after work but I never had any doubts or guilt just as he didn't.

So, if we are truly partners in our marriage why would one person need something more than the other. It's just ridiculous. Why do I need a DH to feel safe? Do you mean physically, emotinally, what?? Also, why wouldn't my DH want to feel loved any more than I do? I know he loves me and he know I love him. We show that mainly through respecting each other. I just don't understand why we need different things in our relationship. We need him to be a 50/50 partner and love and respect me the same way I love and respect him.

Btw, I told him that I felt bad that I didn't treat him like the "king of his castle" and he laughed!

how silly to deny gender differences. spend an afternoon watching mammals interact at a zoo or in the woods and then get back to me.

I'm not denying them, but I feel we are moving past many of them that stem from sociatal pressures. Norms about the roles of women and men have changed drastically, but not enough to move past calling some of them gender differences. I still have some traditional maternal instincts, but I didn't feel any more guilt going back to work than my DH did (which was actually none) but that is still accepted in our society as being okay for dads and not for moms. I felt pressure to pretend that I felt bad all day my first few weeks back at work because so many people gave me the *oh poor you* look. My DH didn't get any of those looks or comments.

I just see few differences in the needs of my DH and I emotionally and physically. I really should be treating my DH differently than I expect him to treat me? I honestly don't get it.

you are an outlier. most new moms feel differently. that is not based on societal pressures, that is based on hormones and evolution.

I used to think I was an outlier and maybe I am, but the more I opened up about my feelings with my friends and moms in my office many of them said they felt the same way but didn't act like it because everyone assumed they would come to work weepy and sad to be away from their DC. Now I missed my kids for sure and couldn't wait to scoop them up at the end of a work day but I never felt guilty or had a hard time concentrating on work while in the office. I think if more people talked about it you'd be surprised that I'm not such an outlier.

But it is also no surprise that your "outlier" women have chosen to marry outlier men, who happen to care about housework and such. It is a balance. An outlier woman like you would probably not be attracted to a typical, king of the castle, alpha male.

So, even though you are an outlier, you did what most women do - look for a parter that complements them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of the genes differences are bunk. BUT, I do think that people are different and have different needs, and people seek out partners who fill their needs. And that there is a spectrum, and you may fall anywhere on that spectrum.

So that, by and by, on the large, women tend to express a specific set of needs, and men tend to express a different set of needs.

The book his Needs, Her Needs, which I referenced a couple of pages back, does a good job of explaining this in a way that isn't too terribly Women are like X, Men are like Y. (though it does a bit of that, and is from a very Christian perspective, so you have to kind of screen some of that out if it doesn't work for you). It's been years, but what he does is list ten needs that most people tend to have, and have each partner rank those needs. Women tend to value safety and security needs higher than the other needs, men tend to value admiration and respect higher than the other needs. Not everyone - or everyone in the same gender - ranks the needs exactly the same way.

Other couples counseling books talk about it like this - there's the old adage treat people like YOU want to be treated. Which is kind of self centered, isn't it? Treat people like THEY want to be treated. How they want to be treated - what they value - may or may not be how you want to be treated, or what you value. Differences in people are ok and good. People are different. So figure out what motivates or rewards your partner, and give them that. Don't give them what motivates or rewards you.

So yes. It may seem cliched or trite, and it may not fit your circumstances, but in my case, my husband wanted me to say (and, um, obviously I am waaay oversimplifying this) you are great! You did a great job! I so appreciate everything you do for the family! And I wanted my husband to say you are cherished! You are loved! You matter! If my husband said to me (and again - way oversimplifying this) I so appreciate everything you do for the family I would think, I am not your maid!

Gender differences discussions used to annoy me, because I am not a girly girl, and quite honestly I don't give a shot about the state of my floors or whether the laundry is done every wek and everything is perfectly folded and put away. But my husband does care, a great deal, about homemaking stuff, so that's another area where I am conscious of his perceptions. And vice versa, there are things I care about that he doesn't, and he takes more care with those things than he might if he lived on his own. It's really about mutual respect.

This makes more sense to me. It's based more on the personality of the person and not gender even though there are probably trends in males and females that you find when asking how they would like to be treated by their spouse. We definitely compliment each other's personalities so that probably makes us work well together plus we also have similar goals in life which keep us on the same page.