Weird situation with new neighbor from high school - WWYD

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think if OP actually bullied the girl she'd remember it. Don't you remember who was called which names in your school? I could tell you to this day.

More likely that OP (and her friends) excluded and ignored the girl, which hurt her feelings. Maybe they even dismissed her in a mean way when she tried to join their group, or said she wasn't their friend. In this case I wouldn't be surprised if OP has no recollection but the other girl is scarred.

And even if OP called her a pig-face, shoved her in a locker, and left gum on her seat - going up to OP's minor children with this is out of line and unhinged.

Excluding and ignoring is bullying. Look up relational aggression. This sort of bullying is incredibly painful and dangerous. And, because people like you dismiss it as normal, it’s more likely to lead to the kind of trauma that might cause someone serious mental health issues, including PTSD that could lead someone to behave as this woman has. I’m not justifying this woman’s choice to involve OP’s kids— that’s 100% not okay. But the idea that OP didn’t bully because she didn’t call this woman a name is silly.

Relational aggression is brutal. Humans are social pack animals. Exclusion, ostracism, and isolation can result in intense feelings if fear and shame. Especially during teen years when emotions are heightened due to hormonal shifts and people often lack emotional coping skills (which we only recently started teaching children with more intention). There are people who have committed or attempted suicide because of relational aggression— being the subject of hurtful rumors, being excluded without explanation, the sort of passive-aggressive cruelty that teen girls are often experts at (the backhanded compliment, sh*t stirring gossip). That can feel far worse than being called a name or shoved in a locker, which is much more likely to inspire adults to get involved or result in the bully being held accountable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if OP actually bullied the girl she'd remember it. Don't you remember who was called which names in your school? I could tell you to this day.

More likely that OP (and her friends) excluded and ignored the girl, which hurt her feelings. Maybe they even dismissed her in a mean way when she tried to join their group, or said she wasn't their friend. In this case I wouldn't be surprised if OP has no recollection but the other girl is scarred.

And even if OP called her a pig-face, shoved her in a locker, and left gum on her seat - going up to OP's minor children with this is out of line and unhinged.

Excluding and ignoring is bullying. Look up relational aggression. This sort of bullying is incredibly painful and dangerous. And, because people like you dismiss it as normal, it’s more likely to lead to the kind of trauma that might cause someone serious mental health issues, including PTSD that could lead someone to behave as this woman has. I’m not justifying this woman’s choice to involve OP’s kids— that’s 100% not okay. But the idea that OP didn’t bully because she didn’t call this woman a name is silly.

Relational aggression is brutal. Humans are social pack animals. Exclusion, ostracism, and isolation can result in intense feelings if fear and shame. Especially during teen years when emotions are heightened due to hormonal shifts and people often lack emotional coping skills (which we only recently started teaching children with more intention). There are people who have committed or attempted suicide because of relational aggression— being the subject of hurtful rumors, being excluded without explanation, the sort of passive-aggressive cruelty that teen girls are often experts at (the backhanded compliment, sh*t stirring gossip). That can feel far worse than being called a name or shoved in a locker, which is much more likely to inspire adults to get involved or result in the bully being held accountable.

So the solution is what? Invite everyone to everything? Never say no to an acquaintances advances or overtures? This isn’t realistic or advisable. Something is off with the neighbor and even teenage OP sensed it. Are we not to trust our own instincts anymore lest we exclude someone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We should not take OPs spin on events as the absolute facts.

I agree. Far better to invent whatever facts best suit our narrative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if OP actually bullied the girl she'd remember it. Don't you remember who was called which names in your school? I could tell you to this day.

More likely that OP (and her friends) excluded and ignored the girl, which hurt her feelings. Maybe they even dismissed her in a mean way when she tried to join their group, or said she wasn't their friend. In this case I wouldn't be surprised if OP has no recollection but the other girl is scarred.

And even if OP called her a pig-face, shoved her in a locker, and left gum on her seat - going up to OP's minor children with this is out of line and unhinged.

Excluding and ignoring is bullying. Look up relational aggression. This sort of bullying is incredibly painful and dangerous. And, because people like you dismiss it as normal, it’s more likely to lead to the kind of trauma that might cause someone serious mental health issues, including PTSD that could lead someone to behave as this woman has. I’m not justifying this woman’s choice to involve OP’s kids— that’s 100% not okay. But the idea that OP didn’t bully because she didn’t call this woman a name is silly.

Relational aggression is brutal. Humans are social pack animals. Exclusion, ostracism, and isolation can result in intense feelings if fear and shame. Especially during teen years when emotions are heightened due to hormonal shifts and people often lack emotional coping skills (which we only recently started teaching children with more intention). There are people who have committed or attempted suicide because of relational aggression— being the subject of hurtful rumors, being excluded without explanation, the sort of passive-aggressive cruelty that teen girls are often experts at (the backhanded compliment, sh*t stirring gossip). That can feel far worse than being called a name or shoved in a locker, which is much more likely to inspire adults to get involved or result in the bully being held accountable.

So the solution is what? Invite everyone to everything? Never say no to an acquaintances advances or overtures? This isn’t realistic or advisable. Something is off with the neighbor and even teenage OP sensed it. Are we not to trust our own instincts anymore lest we exclude someone?

This is taking “bullying” far far too far. It’s normal and developmentally appropriate to have groups of friends at that age. It’s not normal to invite everyone to your sleepover or what have you. It’s not even possible. Are you suggesting people not be allowed to socialize privately? I mean, WTF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if OP actually bullied the girl she'd remember it. Don't you remember who was called which names in your school? I could tell you to this day.

More likely that OP (and her friends) excluded and ignored the girl, which hurt her feelings. Maybe they even dismissed her in a mean way when she tried to join their group, or said she wasn't their friend. In this case I wouldn't be surprised if OP has no recollection but the other girl is scarred.

And even if OP called her a pig-face, shoved her in a locker, and left gum on her seat - going up to OP's minor children with this is out of line and unhinged.

Excluding and ignoring is bullying. Look up relational aggression. This sort of bullying is incredibly painful and dangerous. And, because people like you dismiss it as normal, it’s more likely to lead to the kind of trauma that might cause someone serious mental health issues, including PTSD that could lead someone to behave as this woman has. I’m not justifying this woman’s choice to involve OP’s kids— that’s 100% not okay. But the idea that OP didn’t bully because she didn’t call this woman a name is silly.

Relational aggression is brutal. Humans are social pack animals. Exclusion, ostracism, and isolation can result in intense feelings if fear and shame. Especially during teen years when emotions are heightened due to hormonal shifts and people often lack emotional coping skills (which we only recently started teaching children with more intention). There are people who have committed or attempted suicide because of relational aggression— being the subject of hurtful rumors, being excluded without explanation, the sort of passive-aggressive cruelty that teen girls are often experts at (the backhanded compliment, sh*t stirring gossip). That can feel far worse than being called a name or shoved in a locker, which is much more likely to inspire adults to get involved or result in the bully being held accountable.

So the solution is what? Invite everyone to everything? Never say no to an acquaintances advances or overtures? This isn’t realistic or advisable. Something is off with the neighbor and even teenage OP sensed it. Are we not to trust our own instincts anymore lest we exclude someone?

This is taking “bullying” far far too far. It’s normal and developmentally appropriate to have groups of friends at that age. It’s not normal to invite everyone to your sleepover or what have you. It’s not even possible. Are you suggesting people not be allowed to socialize privately? I mean, WTF.

Starting rumors and shit talking is far different than not being invited. Not being invited is simply part of life. Trying to get invited and being rejected may be painful, but also, part of life. It sounds like that is what OP’s weird neighbor experienced, according to OP. That’s not bullying. It’s not having a grasp of social norms. There were many people like this in my high school so no, I don’t think it’s off base. Quite expected really. You can’t extrapolate feelings of exclusion or not belonging to active bullying. I agree that inclusion is best but there are obviously lines. What you’re proposing is unfair to all involved and not realistic. Also, how is that preparing anyone for the real world?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if OP actually bullied the girl she'd remember it. Don't you remember who was called which names in your school? I could tell you to this day.

More likely that OP (and her friends) excluded and ignored the girl, which hurt her feelings. Maybe they even dismissed her in a mean way when she tried to join their group, or said she wasn't their friend. In this case I wouldn't be surprised if OP has no recollection but the other girl is scarred.

And even if OP called her a pig-face, shoved her in a locker, and left gum on her seat - going up to OP's minor children with this is out of line and unhinged.

Excluding and ignoring is bullying. Look up relational aggression. This sort of bullying is incredibly painful and dangerous. And, because people like you dismiss it as normal, it’s more likely to lead to the kind of trauma that might cause someone serious mental health issues, including PTSD that could lead someone to behave as this woman has. I’m not justifying this woman’s choice to involve OP’s kids— that’s 100% not okay. But the idea that OP didn’t bully because she didn’t call this woman a name is silly.

Relational aggression is brutal. Humans are social pack animals. Exclusion, ostracism, and isolation can result in intense feelings if fear and shame. Especially during teen years when emotions are heightened due to hormonal shifts and people often lack emotional coping skills (which we only recently started teaching children with more intention). There are people who have committed or attempted suicide because of relational aggression— being the subject of hurtful rumors, being excluded without explanation, the sort of passive-aggressive cruelty that teen girls are often experts at (the backhanded compliment, sh*t stirring gossip). That can feel far worse than being called a name or shoved in a locker, which is much more likely to inspire adults to get involved or result in the bully being held accountable.

So the solution is what? Invite everyone to everything? Never say no to an acquaintances advances or overtures? This isn’t realistic or advisable. Something is off with the neighbor and even teenage OP sensed it. Are we not to trust our own instincts anymore lest we exclude someone?

This is taking “bullying” far far too far. It’s normal and developmentally appropriate to have groups of friends at that age. It’s not normal to invite everyone to your sleepover or what have you. It’s not even possible. Are you suggesting people not be allowed to socialize privately? I mean, WTF.

Starting rumors and shit talking is far different than not being invited. Not being invited is simply part of life. Trying to get invited and being rejected may be painful, but also, part of life. It sounds like that is what OP’s weird neighbor experienced, according to OP. That’s not bullying. It’s not having a grasp of social norms. There were many people like this in my high school so no, I don’t think it’s off base. Quite expected really. You can’t extrapolate feelings of exclusion or not belonging to active bullying. I agree that inclusion is best but there are obviously lines. What you’re proposing is unfair to all involved and not realistic. Also, how is that preparing anyone for the real world?

Moreover, OP’s neighbor’s decision to approach children and OP’s other neighbors with her allegations in inappropriate social situations demonstrates lack of social skills consistent with OP’s narrative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if OP actually bullied the girl she'd remember it. Don't you remember who was called which names in your school? I could tell you to this day.

More likely that OP (and her friends) excluded and ignored the girl, which hurt her feelings. Maybe they even dismissed her in a mean way when she tried to join their group, or said she wasn't their friend. In this case I wouldn't be surprised if OP has no recollection but the other girl is scarred.

And even if OP called her a pig-face, shoved her in a locker, and left gum on her seat - going up to OP's minor children with this is out of line and unhinged.

Excluding and ignoring is bullying. Look up relational aggression. This sort of bullying is incredibly painful and dangerous. And, because people like you dismiss it as normal, it’s more likely to lead to the kind of trauma that might cause someone serious mental health issues, including PTSD that could lead someone to behave as this woman has. I’m not justifying this woman’s choice to involve OP’s kids— that’s 100% not okay. But the idea that OP didn’t bully because she didn’t call this woman a name is silly.

Relational aggression is brutal. Humans are social pack animals. Exclusion, ostracism, and isolation can result in intense feelings if fear and shame. Especially during teen years when emotions are heightened due to hormonal shifts and people often lack emotional coping skills (which we only recently started teaching children with more intention). There are people who have committed or attempted suicide because of relational aggression— being the subject of hurtful rumors, being excluded without explanation, the sort of passive-aggressive cruelty that teen girls are often experts at (the backhanded compliment, sh*t stirring gossip). That can feel far worse than being called a name or shoved in a locker, which is much more likely to inspire adults to get involved or result in the bully being held accountable.

So the solution is what? Invite everyone to everything? Never say no to an acquaintances advances or overtures? This isn’t realistic or advisable. Something is off with the neighbor and even teenage OP sensed it. Are we not to trust our own instincts anymore lest we exclude someone?

If you think your options are "invite everyone" or engage in cliquish, exclusive behavior, then that's the problem. There is a middle ground where people select their own social groups without excluding and ostracizing people.

The difference is in how you handle it. If you are having a party and only inviting some people from school/work/the neighborhood, then don't talk about that party all the time with people who aren't invited. And in HS, exclusive and cliquish behavior often takes the form of refusing to work on group projects with someone outside your group, or excluding kids at school events where everyone actually is invited. No one is suggesting that you have to be friends with everyone. There's also a difference between saying "Yeah, Helen and I aren't really friends. I don't know her that well," and "Helen sucks, oh my go I hope she doesn't come to this party. Have you noticed how her hair is always a little... greasy? Yuck."

A lot of adults lack these skills too so they don't call out this behavior in kids (plus many adults are plagued by the same insecurities that cause this kind of in group/out group behavior in teens, and will project their insecurities onto their kids, often making it worse). But that doesn't mean it's okay or that it's not hurtful. Especially because often the way these cliques form is that kids with existing social advantages (money, good looks, excel in school or sports, etc.) gravitate towards each other. Which is fine and normal! But they should also be learning kindness and humility so that hanging out with their friends doesn't have to be a performative activity they do specifically to make others jealous.

I know this will fall on deaf ears and I'll be told this is unreasonable. But it's actually fundamental to a functional society -- if you treat people as though they don't deserve basic kindness and respect, don't be surprised when they do weird or uncomfortable things like tell your kids that you bullied them in school. It's a classic "fk around and find out" situation. OP is finding out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if OP actually bullied the girl she'd remember it. Don't you remember who was called which names in your school? I could tell you to this day.

More likely that OP (and her friends) excluded and ignored the girl, which hurt her feelings. Maybe they even dismissed her in a mean way when she tried to join their group, or said she wasn't their friend. In this case I wouldn't be surprised if OP has no recollection but the other girl is scarred.

And even if OP called her a pig-face, shoved her in a locker, and left gum on her seat - going up to OP's minor children with this is out of line and unhinged.

Excluding and ignoring is bullying. Look up relational aggression. This sort of bullying is incredibly painful and dangerous. And, because people like you dismiss it as normal, it’s more likely to lead to the kind of trauma that might cause someone serious mental health issues, including PTSD that could lead someone to behave as this woman has. I’m not justifying this woman’s choice to involve OP’s kids— that’s 100% not okay. But the idea that OP didn’t bully because she didn’t call this woman a name is silly.

Relational aggression is brutal. Humans are social pack animals. Exclusion, ostracism, and isolation can result in intense feelings if fear and shame. Especially during teen years when emotions are heightened due to hormonal shifts and people often lack emotional coping skills (which we only recently started teaching children with more intention). There are people who have committed or attempted suicide because of relational aggression— being the subject of hurtful rumors, being excluded without explanation, the sort of passive-aggressive cruelty that teen girls are often experts at (the backhanded compliment, sh*t stirring gossip). That can feel far worse than being called a name or shoved in a locker, which is much more likely to inspire adults to get involved or result in the bully being held accountable.

So the solution is what? Invite everyone to everything? Never say no to an acquaintances advances or overtures? This isn’t realistic or advisable. Something is off with the neighbor and even teenage OP sensed it. Are we not to trust our own instincts anymore lest we exclude someone?

If you think your options are "invite everyone" or engage in cliquish, exclusive behavior, then that's the problem. There is a middle ground where people select their own social groups without excluding and ostracizing people.

The difference is in how you handle it. If you are having a party and only inviting some people from school/work/the neighborhood, then don't talk about that party all the time with people who aren't invited. And in HS, exclusive and cliquish behavior often takes the form of refusing to work on group projects with someone outside your group, or excluding kids at school events where everyone actually is invited. No one is suggesting that you have to be friends with everyone. There's also a difference between saying "Yeah, Helen and I aren't really friends. I don't know her that well," and "Helen sucks, oh my go I hope she doesn't come to this party. Have you noticed how her hair is always a little... greasy? Yuck."

A lot of adults lack these skills too so they don't call out this behavior in kids (plus many adults are plagued by the same insecurities that cause this kind of in group/out group behavior in teens, and will project their insecurities onto their kids, often making it worse). But that doesn't mean it's okay or that it's not hurtful. Especially because often the way these cliques form is that kids with existing social advantages (money, good looks, excel in school or sports, etc.) gravitate towards each other. Which is fine and normal! But they should also be learning kindness and humility so that hanging out with their friends doesn't have to be a performative activity they do specifically to make others jealous.

I know this will fall on deaf ears and I'll be told this is unreasonable. But it's actually fundamental to a functional society -- if you treat people as though they don't deserve basic kindness and respect, don't be surprised when they do weird or uncomfortable things like tell your kids that you bullied them in school. It's a classic "fk around and find out" situation. OP is finding out.

It is pretty rich to expect children to be better at this than adults. Come on. Also, while your example is fine, the issue in high school is the perceived power dynamics. Each group did this to others. I recall vividly the jocks doing this about the “stoners”, and vice versa. But it is only deemed “bullying” when it’s the social circle that the alleged victim wants to join. Rumors are far more often spread about those perceived to be in positions of power also because those are the people everyone knows. This is all about jockeying for position. Rules are nebulous. The point is that it is highly unlikely the alleged victim would have felt bullied if she had not been trying to join this social group. It’s likely there were groups she did not want to join that wanted her to join. And so it goes.

[Anonymous]

"Larla, I don't remember interacting with you in high school. I'm happy to have a conversation one on one, and discuss what you recall regarding our interactions from then. If, in fact, I did something wrong towards you, I'm willing to discuss and try to resolve. However, I need you to stay away from my children in the interim. I'm not comfortable with you approaching them when I am not around to discuss your concerns with me in high school. That's not appropriate, and it needs to stop."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if OP actually bullied the girl she'd remember it. Don't you remember who was called which names in your school? I could tell you to this day.

More likely that OP (and her friends) excluded and ignored the girl, which hurt her feelings. Maybe they even dismissed her in a mean way when she tried to join their group, or said she wasn't their friend. In this case I wouldn't be surprised if OP has no recollection but the other girl is scarred.

And even if OP called her a pig-face, shoved her in a locker, and left gum on her seat - going up to OP's minor children with this is out of line and unhinged.

Excluding and ignoring is bullying. Look up relational aggression. This sort of bullying is incredibly painful and dangerous. And, because people like you dismiss it as normal, it’s more likely to lead to the kind of trauma that might cause someone serious mental health issues, including PTSD that could lead someone to behave as this woman has. I’m not justifying this woman’s choice to involve OP’s kids— that’s 100% not okay. But the idea that OP didn’t bully because she didn’t call this woman a name is silly.

Relational aggression is brutal. Humans are social pack animals. Exclusion, ostracism, and isolation can result in intense feelings if fear and shame. Especially during teen years when emotions are heightened due to hormonal shifts and people often lack emotional coping skills (which we only recently started teaching children with more intention). There are people who have committed or attempted suicide because of relational aggression— being the subject of hurtful rumors, being excluded without explanation, the sort of passive-aggressive cruelty that teen girls are often experts at (the backhanded compliment, sh*t stirring gossip). That can feel far worse than being called a name or shoved in a locker, which is much more likely to inspire adults to get involved or result in the bully being held accountable.

So the solution is what? Invite everyone to everything? Never say no to an acquaintances advances or overtures? This isn’t realistic or advisable. Something is off with the neighbor and even teenage OP sensed it. Are we not to trust our own instincts anymore lest we exclude someone?

If you think your options are "invite everyone" or engage in cliquish, exclusive behavior, then that's the problem. There is a middle ground where people select their own social groups without excluding and ostracizing people.

The difference is in how you handle it. If you are having a party and only inviting some people from school/work/the neighborhood, then don't talk about that party all the time with people who aren't invited. And in HS, exclusive and cliquish behavior often takes the form of refusing to work on group projects with someone outside your group, or excluding kids at school events where everyone actually is invited. No one is suggesting that you have to be friends with everyone. There's also a difference between saying "Yeah, Helen and I aren't really friends. I don't know her that well," and "Helen sucks, oh my go I hope she doesn't come to this party. Have you noticed how her hair is always a little... greasy? Yuck."

A lot of adults lack these skills too so they don't call out this behavior in kids (plus many adults are plagued by the same insecurities that cause this kind of in group/out group behavior in teens, and will project their insecurities onto their kids, often making it worse). But that doesn't mean it's okay or that it's not hurtful. Especially because often the way these cliques form is that kids with existing social advantages (money, good looks, excel in school or sports, etc.) gravitate towards each other. Which is fine and normal! But they should also be learning kindness and humility so that hanging out with their friends doesn't have to be a performative activity they do specifically to make others jealous.

I know this will fall on deaf ears and I'll be told this is unreasonable. But it's actually fundamental to a functional society -- if you treat people as though they don't deserve basic kindness and respect, don't be surprised when they do weird or uncomfortable things like tell your kids that you bullied them in school. It's a classic "fk around and find out" situation. OP is finding out.

You are off your rocker and derailing this thread into some weird anti bullying stance with unrealistic and unreasonable proposals.

[Anonymous]

Seems that a lot of PPs assume OPs behavior in high school was simply not being friends with her neighbor. And that the neighbor interpreted this as bullying. Why PPs assume this is all it was? OP isn’t going to tell us and might not even remember her mean bullying behavior. PPs are very transparent about what kind of people they were in high school (and today) by their assumptions and posts about this situation.

[Anonymous]

It’s not “call the midwife” on this thread it’s call a therapist. Yikes. So much projection. I’m sorry you all were bullied but now is the time to address it and put it in the past for yourselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have lived in our home a long time and are well established here. We go for walks, we chat with neighbors, lend tools, kids are running back and forth, the usual. Recently my kids came in from riding bikes and told me a woman came up to them asked if their mom was [my name], and when they confirmed she said she'd gone to high school with me and I was very mean to her. They were like, "Uh ... sorry about that." They biked off and told me later that day.

A few days ago my husband was outside doing some garden stuff and a guy approached HIM, said he just moved to the area, they chatted, and then the guy told DH "I think our wives went to high school together, but didn't get along." The guy kind of laughed it off, and the conversation moved along. Yesterday, I was out for a walk with a neighbor/friend who's going through a tough time, we round the corner, and nearly bump into .... a woman I vaguely recognized. It's her - the woman I went to high school with!

We apologized for almost bumping into her. I was searching my brain for her name and she introduced herself to my neighbor/friend and said, "Jessica and I went to high school together, but we weren't friends to say the least. She and her friends hated me, right?" It was awkward. My neighbor was like, "Oh, well ... high school was so long ago, we're all more mature now and Jess is a great friend to have now," and we quickly said goodbye and walked on.

Here's the thing: I barely remember interacting with this woman when we were high school girls! If I was mean to her, it was probably by ignoring her. But apparently she is going to introduce herself to everyone by connecting herself to me and announcing some history we had that I don't remember. How do I handle this? Do I owe her an apology for perceived slights? I reached out to two people from high school that I'm FB friends with, to ask their recollection of her and both basically said she was super awkward and always trying to push her way into conversations and activities she wasn't welcome in. Neither could remember me being specifically mean to her, and both mentioned other girls who they said WERE mean to her. Do I go talk to her? Do I defend my reputation? Nothing?

OP, I'm not going to lie, you seem terribly drama prone. Why not let the situation go, if you are innocent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems that a lot of PPs assume OPs behavior in high school was simply not being friends with her neighbor. And that the neighbor interpreted this as bullying. Why PPs assume this is all it was? OP isn’t going to tell us and might not even remember her mean bullying behavior. PPs are very transparent about what kind of people they were in high school (and today) by their assumptions and posts about this situation.

According to other posters if you aren’t everyones best friend you were definitely a bully. No shades of gray or other name applies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if OP actually bullied the girl she'd remember it. Don't you remember who was called which names in your school? I could tell you to this day.

More likely that OP (and her friends) excluded and ignored the girl, which hurt her feelings. Maybe they even dismissed her in a mean way when she tried to join their group, or said she wasn't their friend. In this case I wouldn't be surprised if OP has no recollection but the other girl is scarred.

And even if OP called her a pig-face, shoved her in a locker, and left gum on her seat - going up to OP's minor children with this is out of line and unhinged.

Excluding and ignoring is bullying. Look up relational aggression. This sort of bullying is incredibly painful and dangerous. And, because people like you dismiss it as normal, it’s more likely to lead to the kind of trauma that might cause someone serious mental health issues, including PTSD that could lead someone to behave as this woman has. I’m not justifying this woman’s choice to involve OP’s kids— that’s 100% not okay. But the idea that OP didn’t bully because she didn’t call this woman a name is silly.

Relational aggression is brutal. Humans are social pack animals. Exclusion, ostracism, and isolation can result in intense feelings if fear and shame. Especially during teen years when emotions are heightened due to hormonal shifts and people often lack emotional coping skills (which we only recently started teaching children with more intention). There are people who have committed or attempted suicide because of relational aggression— being the subject of hurtful rumors, being excluded without explanation, the sort of passive-aggressive cruelty that teen girls are often experts at (the backhanded compliment, sh*t stirring gossip). That can feel far worse than being called a name or shoved in a locker, which is much more likely to inspire adults to get involved or result in the bully being held accountable.

So the solution is what? Invite everyone to everything? Never say no to an acquaintances advances or overtures? This isn’t realistic or advisable. Something is off with the neighbor and even teenage OP sensed it. Are we not to trust our own instincts anymore lest we exclude someone?

If you think your options are "invite everyone" or engage in cliquish, exclusive behavior, then that's the problem. There is a middle ground where people select their own social groups without excluding and ostracizing people.

The difference is in how you handle it. If you are having a party and only inviting some people from school/work/the neighborhood, then don't talk about that party all the time with people who aren't invited. And in HS, exclusive and cliquish behavior often takes the form of refusing to work on group projects with someone outside your group, or excluding kids at school events where everyone actually is invited. No one is suggesting that you have to be friends with everyone. There's also a difference between saying "Yeah, Helen and I aren't really friends. I don't know her that well," and "Helen sucks, oh my go I hope she doesn't come to this party. Have you noticed how her hair is always a little... greasy? Yuck."

A lot of adults lack these skills too so they don't call out this behavior in kids (plus many adults are plagued by the same insecurities that cause this kind of in group/out group behavior in teens, and will project their insecurities onto their kids, often making it worse). But that doesn't mean it's okay or that it's not hurtful. Especially because often the way these cliques form is that kids with existing social advantages (money, good looks, excel in school or sports, etc.) gravitate towards each other. Which is fine and normal! But they should also be learning kindness and humility so that hanging out with their friends doesn't have to be a performative activity they do specifically to make others jealous.

I know this will fall on deaf ears and I'll be told this is unreasonable. But it's actually fundamental to a functional society -- if you treat people as though they don't deserve basic kindness and respect, don't be surprised when they do weird or uncomfortable things like tell your kids that you bullied them in school. It's a classic "fk around and find out" situation. OP is finding out.

It is pretty rich to expect children to be better at this than adults. Come on. Also, while your example is fine, the issue in high school is the perceived power dynamics. Each group did this to others. I recall vividly the jocks doing this about the “stoners”, and vice versa. But it is only deemed “bullying” when it’s the social circle that the alleged victim wants to join. Rumors are far more often spread about those perceived to be in positions of power also because those are the people everyone knows. This is all about jockeying for position. Rules are nebulous. The point is that it is highly unlikely the alleged victim would have felt bullied if she had not been trying to join this social group. It’s likely there were groups she did not want to join that wanted her to join. And so it goes.

You are describing a high school hellscape that could absolutely traumatize someone, and not just because they had the apparently bad manners to want to join a social group above their assigned status. JFC.

I expect adults to be better than this. I expect kids to be better than this. We are not apes. We live in a society.