Inheritance debacle. WWYD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm cracking up at the "detective" poster trying so hard to poke holes in this story. I have a feeling that some details were changed for obvious reasons a but the underlying story is true.

Right? So weirdly invested, and with a lot of time on their hands. It's also super annoying having the quoted text at the bottom of their post instead of at the top.

There's certainly a range of people who seem emotionally invested in this story. The posters with the capitalized sentences shouting at people who dared express sympathy for Mary come to mind. Or maybe it's the one person repeatedly posting in the same style and tone

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Larla,

You are a classic example of someone spinning out a story to cover up the plot holes and the more you try to cover them up, the more complicated it becomes and the more you trip yourself.

For example, you describe Thelma's husband / Mary's father as someone who respected his wife's money as her own. Rather progressive thinking for that generation. Yet this is also the same man who, according to you, kicked out his 19 year old son from the family house while allowing his daughter to stay at home as daddy's little princess and indulged her and allowed her to be lazy and unfocused and unproductive. Which strongly implies a domineering, traditional and old fashioned man. You even admitted this yourself when you said: “He was quite "traditional" in that he firmly believed that it is the mans job to work.” Somehow that picture just doesn't gel.

Then you say Mary's father/Thelma's husband did have an active role in helping to build up the inheritance yet somehow still didn't consider it "his" money? For a couple, especially of that generation, who were married for quite some time that's a pretty unusual position to take. To also quote you from your recent post: "They simply took that relatively small sum of money added to it and invested it and then putting that into savings while still working. I believe originally it was supposed to be a retirement fund but then it became much more than that. my grandmother told me that for time they actually flipped houses and made a great deal of money on that and all the money they made they would reinvest."

Wow. So her husband now did add money to the family's investment portfolio and assets whereas you were previously claiming it was Thelma's money and he didn't consider it "his." Last of all, you tripped over using the term "flipped houses." "Flipping" houses is a recent trend. An old person of a previous generation would be very unlikely to use the term "flip." They'd use the term "fix up" houses. Further, the real estate dynamics in most of America, including in the DC area, through the 1990s, rarely made "great deal of money" flipping or fixing up houses for quick resale.

It was only really in the late 1990s that people started to make money off flips as gentrification and the real estate market both started to boom (And more so in the 2000s) and that's when the term entered into popular usage and you started seeing lots of people doing "flips" and making money off it.

In your first post you said: "The house is pretty nice, 3000 sq ft in a nice area (not too close in, but still close to everything)" but now you're saying it's just in a decent area? Sounds like you can't make up your mind what your story is meant to be or you're trying to backtrack when pointed out the inconsistencies in your hypothetical set up.

And, of course, I'm now laughing at your godmother/great aunt now having been left an orphan at age 20 and inheriting the family house which she presumably lived in for practically her entire life? What an amazingly convenient excuse for a young single unmarried woman owning a large single family house in the early 1960s! And she kept the house, too! She must have really eaten up the initial inheritance to pay the inheritance taxes, property taxes, heating bills, general upkeep on the house in her 20s when she couldn't really have been making much money or still in her studies (as any feminist will tell you, single women were paid far less then men in those pre-feminist days). By the way, you forgot to explain what happened to your grandmother's share of the house for she presumably inherited half of it, too? I'd also love to know how your godmother/great aunt's parents died. Both in the same year! Car accident? What was the tragedy?

By the way, I'm trying to figure out where the house is. 3,000 sqft was pretty d*mn big by 1960s standards for the median sqft for a 1950s/1960s house was 1,500 sqft. But we know the house must be older, for it belonged to your godmother/grandmother's parents. Probably pre-war, no? In the DC area, 3k sqft, pre-war, relatively close in area, still in a "nice" area, well, then that house value is going to be a lot more than 400k. Even in Baltimore/Annapolis area it'd be worth more than 400k. Or maybe your great-granddaddy was a self-made man who built the house himself? Is that why it was so special that Thelma had to keep on to the house at age 20 even after both her parents tragically died so young and in whatever peculiar circumstances that caused their deaths?

Sorry, the picture just doesn't work out. Your lack of understanding of past generations and economic and real estate dynamics is coming through in the latest round of your storytelling.
By the way, I found this in your first post:

“Currently, Mary is not upset about the house, just surprised. She thought it would be split between her and her sibling, Roy. Roy is upset, thinking that he would buy out his sister and just sell the house.”

Then you said many pages later: “Roy knew all along that his mother wasn't leaving him the house.”

In other words, you have been busted. And not only have you been busted, you tripped by saying Mary wasn't upset about the house, which makes no sense whatsoever given the subsequent posts and your claims that Mary is still holding on to the house at the moment and even moving into the master bedroom, instead of getting ready to leave. FYI you should have reversed the roles. Roy should have been the surprised one, not upset, while Mary should have been the upset one. That's the correct sentiments based on their circumstances as told to us (Mary the freeloader who expected to inherit, Roy the estranged son who barely stayed in touch with his mother). Learn to keep your story straight if you want to be successful in your next fictional thread.

FYI the funeral was 5 months ago, according to your first post. In real life, Mary and Roy would have been to the lawyers the day after the funeral, not five months later. The battle would be going on now. The time for hand-wringing "oh my what to do" was a long time ago.

You’ve been a good troll. It was an entertaining thread for a while

Anonymous wrote:

No I'm not busted, because this is all true. Sorry I didn't give you a complete financial breakdown of what money my godmother has and where as I'm not completely sure of that myself but she is quite wealthy. I'm sure you had a great time doing all this research about what a woman could buy in the 50s and what they couldn't buy however that's not the case. if you must know, my godmother's parents died when she was 20 and when my grandmother was 16. They left them the house which my godmother stayed in with my grandma, who only moved when she got married. when my godmother married her husband they just stayed in the house which then belonged to my godmother. She was not independently wealthy in that her and my grandmother came from a rich family, but they did both get money left to them and my godmother and her dh saved and invested it and were able to build it into a bigger nest egg. Her husband however, never took the money to be his own, he always remember the fact that their wealth through investments started out with her modest inheritance from her parents.
My grandmother is not wealthy, but she is well off as she was able to save her part of the inheritance to ended up buying another home which she has rented out over the years and has been saving that money too.
I'm not sure why I have to explain this to you, it isn't relevant to the situation but since I have strangers on the Internet calling me a liar I guess I have to explain all the inner workings of my family.

As to your point about the house not being particularly " remarkable", I never said that it was, all I said is that it's about 3000 sq ft and it's in a decent area. And since we're already all the way off topic, I'm sure if that house had a number of repairs it would be worth even more. That doesn't mean that it's not a great house it just wouldn't get as much as it probably would if it was a new build.

I agree with the poster who thinks this story is fictional.

The odd thing about it is the extreme hate aimed at Mary. Wow, there is at least one poster who is absolutely gleeful at the idea of Mary being thrown out of her home. If the story is true, my guess would be it is one of Larla's parents who has some kind of grudge against Mary, maybe they've been jealous of Mary for some reason, and now is happy to see bad things happening to her.

[Anonymous]

Larla/OP, are you and your family middle class African Americans? If so, I can totally believe that everything you've described is real - "traditional" man who respects his wife's family money/earned wages, is hard on his son to be a good earner but soft on his daughter; the middle aged woman who has multiple college degrees but chose to stay at home with family rather than take on adult struggles; the close relationship between auntie/godmother and niece/goddaughter. It sounds 100% believable to me from that perspective. I know several people who have this exact family dynamic.

I'm still cracking up at "flipping vs. fixing up" detective. Also at the person who seems to think that $400,000 in cash plus a $400,000 house is not a lot of assets for a woman in her 80s.

As for what Larla should do, I think that it would be reasonable to give Mary several months to find a new place - say, until March? If the house is in DC, you will have to give written notice that she has to vacate, but your lawyer can tell you more about that. I don't think that you owe this person anything. Y'all might be family, but you are not required to provide her a free ride for the next 30+ years of her life. You are not responsible for anyone's choices but your own. If you are feeling especially generous, you could foot the bill for the deposit and movers to the new apartment, but that's as far as I'd personally be willing to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Larla/OP, are you and your family middle class African Americans? If so, I can totally believe that everything you've described is real - "traditional" man who respects his wife's family money/earned wages, is hard on his son to be a good earner but soft on his daughter; the middle aged woman who has multiple college degrees but chose to stay at home with family rather than take on adult struggles; the close relationship between auntie/godmother and niece/goddaughter. It sounds 100% believable to me from that perspective. I know several people who have this exact family dynamic.

I'm still cracking up at "flipping vs. fixing up" detective. Also at the person who seems to think that $400,000 in cash plus a $400,000 house is not a lot of assets for a woman in her 80s.

As for what Larla should do, I think that it would be reasonable to give Mary several months to find a new place - say, until March? If the house is in DC, you will have to give written notice that she has to vacate, but your lawyer can tell you more about that. I don't think that you owe this person anything. Y'all might be family, but you are not required to provide her a free ride for the next 30+ years of her life. You are not responsible for anyone's choices but your own. If you are feeling especially generous, you could foot the bill for the deposit and movers to the new apartment, but that's as far as I'd personally be willing to go.

Op here,
At this point in sure if anyone recognized the family dynamic from my post, my identity is already out. Yes, The dynamic you described is pretty accurate .

[Anonymous]

Op again,

To the detective poster, I never said that my godmother's husband didn't touch the money that he contributed to. What I did say is that he understood and respected the fact that the nest egg did originally come from her. They both worked and made money however their original investment money was from the wife. And I wasn't saying that their only source of income was house flipping or fixing up as you like to put it. They took some money bought a house fixed it and then sold it. That isn't out of the ordinary for any period of time even if it was the 80s. I believe that you were making a lot of assumptions, I never said that they got rich off of flipping houses. That was one of their investments with the nest egg money. You were so busy trying to poke holes in my story that you don't even realize that none of these details are relevant to the original question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Larla/OP, are you and your family middle class African Americans? If so, I can totally believe that everything you've described is real - "traditional" man who respects his wife's family money/earned wages, is hard on his son to be a good earner but soft on his daughter; the middle aged woman who has multiple college degrees but chose to stay at home with family rather than take on adult struggles; the close relationship between auntie/godmother and niece/goddaughter. It sounds 100% believable to me from that perspective. I know several people who have this exact family dynamic.

I'm still cracking up at "flipping vs. fixing up" detective. Also at the person who seems to think that $400,000 in cash plus a $400,000 house is not a lot of assets for a woman in her 80s.

As for what Larla should do, I think that it would be reasonable to give Mary several months to find a new place - say, until March? If the house is in DC, you will have to give written notice that she has to vacate, but your lawyer can tell you more about that. I don't think that you owe this person anything. Y'all might be family, but you are not required to provide her a free ride for the next 30+ years of her life. You are not responsible for anyone's choices but your own. If you are feeling especially generous, you could foot the bill for the deposit and movers to the new apartment, but that's as far as I'd personally be willing to go.

Op here,
At this point in sure if anyone recognized the family dynamic from my post, my identity is already out. Yes, The dynamic you described is pretty accurate .

PP here. Don't worry, Larla. I absolutely don't know you personally.

What I did want to say, though -

Your godmother sounds like a really wonderful woman. Your grandmother too. Those two, raising each other after the death of their parents, did something that I doubt many of us coming up now could manage. I'm sure your godmother did the best she could with her daughter. It sounds like she was a good and supportive mother, even if that support wasn't always in the best interests of her daughter's long-term self-sufficiency. It sounds like you work really hard and are taking care of your parents as best you can while trying to move forward with your life. If I had to speculate about your godmother's motives, my guess would be that she wanted to help you to move forward with your life without having to take care of anyone. I would assume that this would include also not taking care of Mary. My advice is to look to your godmother's example of working hard and caring for your family, but to set some boundaries about what "taking care of family" means. Maybe it wasn't possible for her to set those boundaries. I'm sure it would've broken her heart to kick her daughter out onto the street, and frankly, I don't know a lot of mothers who would actually make that choice if really faced with it.

I posted my question because I don't think that the majority of the people on this board are familiar with the family structure and dynamic you've described. I think that's why many of them think it's unusual and are calling you a liar. I read the whole thing and found it 100% believable. It's just not even remotely within most of their lived experiences, and they're inclined to call troll the second someone else's life deviates from their lived experiences.

Please do meet with a lawyer. Figure out what your options are, and then figure out the best way to execute them. You are under ZERO legal obligation to let your cousin live in your house indefinitely, but you may have to work with the courts (and possibly the Marshals) to evict her. That can take some time and does require written notice. It would be better if you could come to an agreement with her instead.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just finished reading the entire thread. Sheesh, it's an hour of my life I won't get back.

It started of plausible enough but the more Lara told us of Thelma's background, the house, the money, the family, the will, the more it started to read like a bad made for TV movie or novel, especially when combined with the inconsistencies in her descriptions of Mary and Roy's reactions to the will. The explanations didn't add up in a way that made sense, for if there was truth to them then Lara's initial explanations would have manifested themselves differently. While I don't doubt there are real life situations that are similar, this particular case, as described to us, doesn't ring true to me. In real life it's the estate lawyer and executor who would be the ones dealing with removing Mary from the house, not Lara. Five months have passed since the funeral, which is a long time and it doesn't seem that the lawyer has done anything, nor have Mary and Roy challenged the will or taken steps towards it.

If the premise of the story was true, even if parts of it have changed or been embellished by Lara to elicit sympathy, I wonder if what really happened is that the family did approach her to agree to a settlement with Mary and Roy and she came here looking for reasons not to agree to it. If that's the case then she may very well have distorted the truth about the Thelma / Mary relationship to place herself in the best light possible. Who knows. We'll never know the truth, for that's the nature of internet forums.

Anonymous wrote:I'm cracking up at the "detective" poster trying so hard to poke holes in this story. I have a feeling that some details were changed for obvious reasons a but the underlying story is true.

Your full of crap ms. post-above-the-fold.

That is an extremely atypical posting style. Remarkably the only other poster to do it in this thread is another OP hater. I don't believe YOUR story.

[Anonymous]

Hey Larla, REAL NP here (other than the post right above this).

I think your story is totally believable and that there is a LOT of projection going on on this thread. A lot of middle aged women projecting how they'll feel when their own moms die and how they would feel if they were cut out from a will. Coming from a pretty dysfunctional family I can see this happening and don't thinks its OMG SO UNUSUAL IT CANNOT POSSIBLY HAVE GONE DOWN THIS WAY. And I'm not African-American I just think there are a lot of privileged people on here to have such wholesome families that they literally cannot fathom something like this happening.

Personally I think Mary isn't your problem. I think your godmother was a little cruel in how she went about this honestly but at the end of the day Mary was her responsibility and as much of Roy's responsibility as he feels like taking on, maybe your grandmother's but not yours.

Mary has no debt, has a job, has $100,000 (at least) and two degrees with which she could find additional employment. There is a limit to how much we (responsible hard working family members) can be responsible for our lazy mooching counterparts. You are 25, and you are responsible for starting your life and not squandering what your godmother has given you. It is not that strange to be left the house of your great grandparents, and perhaps Thelma and her sister did discuss which member of the next gen should be granted the responsibility of a house with that much family history. Which is also perhaps why you are reluctant to sell it?

Regardless, you owe Mary nothing, morally or legally IMO other than time to get her affairs in order. I echo other PPs, come up with a reasonable deadline, communicate it clearly, in writing. Have its enforceability verified with an attorney and move forward. This could create some family drama for a couple years but it doesn't sound like anyone is going to be crying into their pillow other than Mary (and possibly Roy when she asks to move in with him!). Do this and never look back. What is the worst that happened? Mary never talks to you again? That doesn't seem like the worst thing in the world.

[Anonymous]

To the detective PP who seemed to think that people weren't flipping houses twenty or thirty years ago - my own father was buying, renovating and selling houses on the Hill back in the 70s. At one point he owned 16. If I meet you in piers sin and described what he did, I'd say he "flipped" them. Even though that wasn't the terminology he'd have used then.

[Anonymous]

Please do meet with a lawyer. Figure out what your options are, and then figure out the best way to execute them. You are under ZERO legal obligation to let your cousin live in your house indefinitely, but you may have to work with the courts (and possibly the Marshals) to evict her. That can take some time and does require written notice. It would be better if you could come to an agreement with her instead

You should meet with a lawyer and let Mary and Roy know you are doing so. It would be taking the high road if you were to suggest to Mary and Roy that they should also see a lawyer, but not the same one you are seeing. It would be a conflict of interest for the lawyer to advise all three of you. They should have a lawyer who is representing their interests and you should have your own lawyer representing your interests.

Even after reading through the cultural explanation above, I do find it hard to believe that a woman would have such a preference for her nephew's daughter over her own daughter. I love and respect my great aunt, but I can't imagine her liking me better than her own daughter. And I would feel really weird if she died and left me so much more than she left her own children.

Putting myself in the shoes of the OP, I would feel that a disservice had been done and I would talk to the lawyer about redistributing the estate so that Mary and Roy got most of it. That's just how I would feel about it, obviously. I just don't think I could move forward in my life knowing how oddly unbalanced this inheritance was. I am not at all suggesting that you should do this, OP, just saying that it would make me feel so weird that I don't think I could ever get any pleasure from owning that house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Please do meet with a lawyer. Figure out what your options are, and then figure out the best way to execute them. You are under ZERO legal obligation to let your cousin live in your house indefinitely, but you may have to work with the courts (and possibly the Marshals) to evict her. That can take some time and does require written notice. It would be better if you could come to an agreement with her instead

You should meet with a lawyer and let Mary and Roy know you are doing so. It would be taking the high road if you were to suggest to Mary and Roy that they should also see a lawyer, but not the same one you are seeing. It would be a conflict of interest for the lawyer to advise all three of you. They should have a lawyer who is representing their interests and you should have your own lawyer representing your interests.

Even after reading through the cultural explanation above, I do find it hard to believe that a woman would have such a preference for her nephew's daughter over her own daughter. I love and respect my great aunt, but I can't imagine her liking me better than her own daughter. And I would feel really weird if she died and left me so much more than she left her own children.

Putting myself in the shoes of the OP, I would feel that a disservice had been done and I would talk to the lawyer about redistributing the estate so that Mary and Roy got most of it. That's just how I would feel about it, obviously. I just don't think I could move forward in my life knowing how oddly unbalanced this inheritance was. I am not at all suggesting that you should do this, OP, just saying that it would make me feel so weird that I don't think I could ever get any pleasure from owning that house.

How you feel is irrelevant. Her godmother wanted her to have the house and that's what's important. Giving away any portion of her inheritance will have tax implications and should not be taken lightly. She should respect her godmother's wishes and so should Mary and Roy. End of story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Larla/OP, are you and your family middle class African Americans? If so, I can totally believe that everything you've described is real - "traditional" man who respects his wife's family money/earned wages, is hard on his son to be a good earner but soft on his daughter; the middle aged woman who has multiple college degrees but chose to stay at home with family rather than take on adult struggles; the close relationship between auntie/godmother and niece/goddaughter. It sounds 100% believable to me from that perspective. I know several people who have this exact family dynamic.

I'm still cracking up at "flipping vs. fixing up" detective. Also at the person who seems to think that $400,000 in cash plus a $400,000 house is not a lot of assets for a woman in her 80s.

As for what Larla should do, I think that it would be reasonable to give Mary several months to find a new place - say, until March? If the house is in DC, you will have to give written notice that she has to vacate, but your lawyer can tell you more about that. I don't think that you owe this person anything. Y'all might be family, but you are not required to provide her a free ride for the next 30+ years of her life. You are not responsible for anyone's choices but your own. If you are feeling especially generous, you could foot the bill for the deposit and movers to the new apartment, but that's as far as I'd personally be willing to go.

Op here,
At this point in sure if anyone recognized the family dynamic from my post, my identity is already out. Yes, The dynamic you described is pretty accurate .

I'm the poster who has said four times now to evict Mary and move on and I knew you were black. I'm black too. Get your life girl. Mary should have used what she got to make her one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Larla/OP, are you and your family middle class African Americans? If so, I can totally believe that everything you've described is real - "traditional" man who respects his wife's family money/earned wages, is hard on his son to be a good earner but soft on his daughter; the middle aged woman who has multiple college degrees but chose to stay at home with family rather than take on adult struggles; the close relationship between auntie/godmother and niece/goddaughter. It sounds 100% believable to me from that perspective. I know several people who have this exact family dynamic.

I'm still cracking up at "flipping vs. fixing up" detective. Also at the person who seems to think that $400,000 in cash plus a $400,000 house is not a lot of assets for a woman in her 80s.

As for what Larla should do, I think that it would be reasonable to give Mary several months to find a new place - say, until March? If the house is in DC, you will have to give written notice that she has to vacate, but your lawyer can tell you more about that. I don't think that you owe this person anything. Y'all might be family, but you are not required to provide her a free ride for the next 30+ years of her life. You are not responsible for anyone's choices but your own. If you are feeling especially generous, you could foot the bill for the deposit and movers to the new apartment, but that's as far as I'd personally be willing to go.

Op here,
At this point in sure if anyone recognized the family dynamic from my post, my identity is already out. Yes, The dynamic you described is pretty accurate .

I'm the poster who has said four times now to evict Mary and move on and I knew you were black. I'm black too. Get your life girl. Mary should have used what she got to make her one.

Yep. I kind of saw this as well. Your story sounds very similar to the story of my grandmother and great aunt. Also, maybe folks here don't think 800k in assets is a lot of money or considered wealthy, but most AA families would definitely consider that sum as wealthy, RICH even.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please do meet with a lawyer. Figure out what your options are, and then figure out the best way to execute them. You are under ZERO legal obligation to let your cousin live in your house indefinitely, but you may have to work with the courts (and possibly the Marshals) to evict her. That can take some time and does require written notice. It would be better if you could come to an agreement with her instead

You should meet with a lawyer and let Mary and Roy know you are doing so. It would be taking the high road if you were to suggest to Mary and Roy that they should also see a lawyer, but not the same one you are seeing. It would be a conflict of interest for the lawyer to advise all three of you. They should have a lawyer who is representing their interests and you should have your own lawyer representing your interests.

Even after reading through the cultural explanation above, I do find it hard to believe that a woman would have such a preference for her nephew's daughter over her own daughter. I love and respect my great aunt, but I can't imagine her liking me better than her own daughter. And I would feel really weird if she died and left me so much more than she left her own children.

Putting myself in the shoes of the OP, I would feel that a disservice had been done and I would talk to the lawyer about redistributing the estate so that Mary and Roy got most of it. That's just how I would feel about it, obviously. I just don't think I could move forward in my life knowing how oddly unbalanced this inheritance was. I am not at all suggesting that you should do this, OP, just saying that it would make me feel so weird that I don't think I could ever get any pleasure from owning that house.

How you feel is irrelevant. Her godmother wanted her to have the house and that's what's important. Giving away any portion of her inheritance will have tax implications and should not be taken lightly. She should respect her godmother's wishes and so should Mary and Roy. End of story.

A lawyer would be able to give good advice about whether or not there would be tax implications. There might not be any, depending on the facts of the situation. They should all be talking to lawyers.

We don't really know that it was Thelma's idea to leave the house to Larla. And it does sound like a lot of the family's wealth was generated by Thelma's husband's hard work. I bet his pay checks and maybe his own physical labor were used over the years for repairs and general upkeep of the family home. He wasn't sitting around doing nothing all day.

And yes, how I feel surely is irrelevant to Larla, and I mentioned above that I didn't think it was. However, I do think a lot of people would feel uncomfortable about walking away with so much more of the family wealth than the actual immediate family of the deceased. I certainly would not want to live in that house under these circumstances, I just don't think I'd be able to feel happy there.

[Anonymous]

OP, consult a lawyer and get the process going to get Mary out. It's been a long time since I was in law school, but the longer you let her live there, rent free, the harder it will be to get her out. Don't let her talk about moving into the master suite of YOUR house without you saying anything about it.

Your godmother left the house to YOU. If she had wanted to leave it to Mary, she would have done so. Mary has a degree and a job and it is time for you to be an adult and take control of the situation. This thread has gone on forever, stop thinking about it and start taking action. Even if you ultimately decide to let her move back in and pay rent (which I would strongly advice against!!), you've gotta get her or before she can claim adverse possession of the house.