What is the End Game in Ukraine?

[Anonymous]

I know it’s very egotistical but can it all please end ASAP and ordinary Russians get their Schengen visas and inexpensive plane tickets back?
Maybe Russia is going to be post war Germany, respectable and well to do? A girl can dream!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know it’s very egotistical but can it all please end ASAP and ordinary Russians get their Schengen visas and inexpensive plane tickets back?
Maybe Russia is going to be post war Germany, respectable and well to do? A girl can dream!

You mean it as a joke but it is a crucial point. The only way that it would make sense to include Ukraine in NATO is if somehow the alliance evolved to include Russia and confront other threats such as Iran or China.

Kissinger and others have said so for years, but our "experienced' State Dept was sleeping at the will (at best).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know it’s very egotistical but can it all please end ASAP and ordinary Russians get their Schengen visas and inexpensive plane tickets back?
Maybe Russia is going to be post war Germany, respectable and well to do? A girl can dream!

You mean it as a joke but it is a crucial point. The only way that it would make sense to include Ukraine in NATO is if somehow the alliance evolved to include Russia and confront other threats such as Iran or China.

Kissinger and others have said so for years, but our "experienced' State Dept was sleeping at the will (at best).

While the old kgb and communist party formation continues to rule Russia, NATO is seen as a threat.
Unfortunately they had great help (inadvertently) from Gorbie and Yeltsin whom they now demonstrate as a case of extremely unsuccessful “cooperation” with the West (which they see more as a sell out).
Maybe if leadership came from those about 45 yo and under (1993 was when the first non-nepotist international exchanges started and the youngest kids were about 16), maybe we could see the changes. Maybe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If you want to discuss the western world's dependence on oil states, create a new thread, and we'll all deplore with you the length American and other Presidents have had to go to in order to keep their economies running.

No thank you, I'm going to stay here and throw America's love affair with the Gulf dictatorships in the face of every posters spouting the fairy tales of America's "support of democracies" and "opposition to dictatorships" every time someone says it. It gives me great joy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I agree (I'm the PP). I think it's a really dangerous time for Ukraine and anyone in Europe. No one likes to be humiliated and this is humiliating for Russia. It does though make the Democrats look "strong on defense", not that it matters to the MAGA crowd anymore. I think my comments were more directed at the pessimists rooting for Ukraine's demise and to show that Biden made a terrible foreign policy decision. Instead, it looks like supporting Ukraine was the right move. It unified NATO, strengthened western alliances, has allowed the U.S. to test out all kinds of new weapons and at a relatively low cost to the U.S. (and without loss of U.S. lives), has revealed that Russia's military was nothing but a paper tiger, has isolated Russia economically and politically, and has potentially provided the U.S. with a resilient ally on Russia's doorstep. I don't at all want to discount the terrible consequences that this has been to Ukraine though. I think I'm just venting my frustrations with Trump and the MAGA crowd who supported Putin and other dictators like him.

Half of what you wrote is lies. The other half, well....I am sure Ukrainians are super pleased Americans were able to use their misery to test out new weapons. Hey, Raytheon's stock is up and I'm sure that's all that matters to you.

I mean how dumb do you have to be to call Russia's military a paper tiger and Ukraine a capable, resilient ally when Ukraine could not fight without assistance?

Finally, support for dictatorships is not limited to the "MAGA crowd" - every single American president, R or D, has gone on to Riyadh to fellate the Al-Saud, and the present one is no exception so please don't lie that America has a problem with dictatorships. They get along just fine.

DP, and I agree with the prior poster. Russian corruption and incompetence has been exposed in the most humiliating way. Sure, Ukrainians needed equipment from NATO and others, but they've performed brilliantly. They're well-trained, disciplined, and hard fighting. They've taken some really smart, ballsy risks that have paid off.

Corruption is the way of life in Eastern Europe and I'll give you a brownie if you guess correctly which country was named The Most Corrupt in Europe in 2011 without goggling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I agree (I'm the PP). I think it's a really dangerous time for Ukraine and anyone in Europe. No one likes to be humiliated and this is humiliating for Russia. It does though make the Democrats look "strong on defense", not that it matters to the MAGA crowd anymore. I think my comments were more directed at the pessimists rooting for Ukraine's demise and to show that Biden made a terrible foreign policy decision. Instead, it looks like supporting Ukraine was the right move. It unified NATO, strengthened western alliances, has allowed the U.S. to test out all kinds of new weapons and at a relatively low cost to the U.S. (and without loss of U.S. lives), has revealed that Russia's military was nothing but a paper tiger, has isolated Russia economically and politically, and has potentially provided the U.S. with a resilient ally on Russia's doorstep. I don't at all want to discount the terrible consequences that this has been to Ukraine though. I think I'm just venting my frustrations with Trump and the MAGA crowd who supported Putin and other dictators like him.

Half of what you wrote is lies. The other half, well....I am sure Ukrainians are super pleased Americans were able to use their misery to test out new weapons. Hey, Raytheon's stock is up and I'm sure that's all that matters to you.

I mean how dumb do you have to be to call Russia's military a paper tiger and Ukraine a capable, resilient ally when Ukraine could not fight without assistance?

Finally, support for dictatorships is not limited to the "MAGA crowd" - every single American president, R or D, has gone on to Riyadh to fellate the Al-Saud, and the present one is no exception so please don't lie that America has a problem with dictatorships. They get along just fine.

They pay homage to KSA because of oil. Why not decouple oil from foreign policy as the dems have tried to do since the late 1970's?

I don't know why. Maybe you can ask any D president who has kissed the ring of Al-Saud since then? You'll be spoiled for choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I agree (I'm the PP). I think it's a really dangerous time for Ukraine and anyone in Europe. No one likes to be humiliated and this is humiliating for Russia. It does though make the Democrats look "strong on defense", not that it matters to the MAGA crowd anymore. I think my comments were more directed at the pessimists rooting for Ukraine's demise and to show that Biden made a terrible foreign policy decision. Instead, it looks like supporting Ukraine was the right move. It unified NATO, strengthened western alliances, has allowed the U.S. to test out all kinds of new weapons and at a relatively low cost to the U.S. (and without loss of U.S. lives), has revealed that Russia's military was nothing but a paper tiger, has isolated Russia economically and politically, and has potentially provided the U.S. with a resilient ally on Russia's doorstep. I don't at all want to discount the terrible consequences that this has been to Ukraine though. I think I'm just venting my frustrations with Trump and the MAGA crowd who supported Putin and other dictators like him.

Half of what you wrote is lies. The other half, well....I am sure Ukrainians are super pleased Americans were able to use their misery to test out new weapons. Hey, Raytheon's stock is up and I'm sure that's all that matters to you.

I mean how dumb do you have to be to call Russia's military a paper tiger and Ukraine a capable, resilient ally when Ukraine could not fight without assistance?

Finally, support for dictatorships is not limited to the "MAGA crowd" - every single American president, R or D, has gone on to Riyadh to fellate the Al-Saud, and the present one is no exception so please don't lie that America has a problem with dictatorships. They get along just fine.

They pay homage to KSA because of oil. Why not decouple oil from foreign policy as the dems have tried to do since the late 1970's?

Uh, it's only Trump and you MAGAs that are praising Putin and near fascists like Orban. Where was CPAC held this year? At least the Democrats are trying to eliminate our dependence on oil and gas with alternatives and reluctantly support the Saudis as a check to Iran. And your comment about lies. Yeah, that's the idiot MAGAs. You don't even deign to provide reasons for it. Just spout off what you "feel" to be the case, whether it's true or not. Kind of the "big lie". You MAGAs are all the same. Stupid, ignorant, and unwilling to confront the reality, especially when it collides with your world view.

You don't really know whether this support is reluctant or enthusiastic, you just invent whatever works for your worldview.

Next thing you know you'll say that America "reluctantly" supports a repugnant thing like land annexation when most-favored nations like Israel do it because....something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know it’s very egotistical but can it all please end ASAP and ordinary Russians get their Schengen visas and inexpensive plane tickets back?
Maybe Russia is going to be post war Germany, respectable and well to do? A girl can dream!

Yep with an average household income of $6500 the ordinary Russian is clamoring for plane tickets.

[Anonymous]

Why end the war when there is so, so much money to skim?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why end the war when there is so, so much money to skim?

That was the republicans in Afghanistan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I agree (I'm the PP). I think it's a really dangerous time for Ukraine and anyone in Europe. No one likes to be humiliated and this is humiliating for Russia. It does though make the Democrats look "strong on defense", not that it matters to the MAGA crowd anymore. I think my comments were more directed at the pessimists rooting for Ukraine's demise and to show that Biden made a terrible foreign policy decision. Instead, it looks like supporting Ukraine was the right move. It unified NATO, strengthened western alliances, has allowed the U.S. to test out all kinds of new weapons and at a relatively low cost to the U.S. (and without loss of U.S. lives), has revealed that Russia's military was nothing but a paper tiger, has isolated Russia economically and politically, and has potentially provided the U.S. with a resilient ally on Russia's doorstep. I don't at all want to discount the terrible consequences that this has been to Ukraine though. I think I'm just venting my frustrations with Trump and the MAGA crowd who supported Putin and other dictators like him.

Half of what you wrote is lies. The other half, well....I am sure Ukrainians are super pleased Americans were able to use their misery to test out new weapons. Hey, Raytheon's stock is up and I'm sure that's all that matters to you.

I mean how dumb do you have to be to call Russia's military a paper tiger and Ukraine a capable, resilient ally when Ukraine could not fight without assistance?

Finally, support for dictatorships is not limited to the "MAGA crowd" - every single American president, R or D, has gone on to Riyadh to fellate the Al-Saud, and the present one is no exception so please don't lie that America has a problem with dictatorships. They get along just fine.

They pay homage to KSA because of oil. Why not decouple oil from foreign policy as the dems have tried to do since the late 1970's?

Uh, it's only Trump and you MAGAs that are praising Putin and near fascists like Orban. Where was CPAC held this year? At least the Democrats are trying to eliminate our dependence on oil and gas with alternatives and reluctantly support the Saudis as a check to Iran. And your comment about lies. Yeah, that's the idiot MAGAs. You don't even deign to provide reasons for it. Just spout off what you "feel" to be the case, whether it's true or not. Kind of the "big lie". You MAGAs are all the same. Stupid, ignorant, and unwilling to confront the reality, especially when it collides with your world view.

You don't really know whether this support is reluctant or enthusiastic, you just invent whatever works for your worldview.

Next thing you know you'll say that America "reluctantly" supports a repugnant thing like land annexation when most-favored nations like Israel do it because....something.

So when are you going to respond to the fact that your leaders are praising Putin and Orban and hosting their most high profile conference in Hungary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I agree (I'm the PP). I think it's a really dangerous time for Ukraine and anyone in Europe. No one likes to be humiliated and this is humiliating for Russia. It does though make the Democrats look "strong on defense", not that it matters to the MAGA crowd anymore. I think my comments were more directed at the pessimists rooting for Ukraine's demise and to show that Biden made a terrible foreign policy decision. Instead, it looks like supporting Ukraine was the right move. It unified NATO, strengthened western alliances, has allowed the U.S. to test out all kinds of new weapons and at a relatively low cost to the U.S. (and without loss of U.S. lives), has revealed that Russia's military was nothing but a paper tiger, has isolated Russia economically and politically, and has potentially provided the U.S. with a resilient ally on Russia's doorstep. I don't at all want to discount the terrible consequences that this has been to Ukraine though. I think I'm just venting my frustrations with Trump and the MAGA crowd who supported Putin and other dictators like him.

Half of what you wrote is lies. The other half, well....I am sure Ukrainians are super pleased Americans were able to use their misery to test out new weapons. Hey, Raytheon's stock is up and I'm sure that's all that matters to you.

I mean how dumb do you have to be to call Russia's military a paper tiger and Ukraine a capable, resilient ally when Ukraine could not fight without assistance?

Finally, support for dictatorships is not limited to the "MAGA crowd" - every single American president, R or D, has gone on to Riyadh to fellate the Al-Saud, and the present one is no exception so please don't lie that America has a problem with dictatorships. They get along just fine.

They pay homage to KSA because of oil. Why not decouple oil from foreign policy as the dems have tried to do since the late 1970's?

Uh, it's only Trump and you MAGAs that are praising Putin and near fascists like Orban. Where was CPAC held this year? At least the Democrats are trying to eliminate our dependence on oil and gas with alternatives and reluctantly support the Saudis as a check to Iran. And your comment about lies. Yeah, that's the idiot MAGAs. You don't even deign to provide reasons for it. Just spout off what you "feel" to be the case, whether it's true or not. Kind of the "big lie". You MAGAs are all the same. Stupid, ignorant, and unwilling to confront the reality, especially when it collides with your world view.

You don't really know whether this support is reluctant or enthusiastic, you just invent whatever works for your worldview.

Next thing you know you'll say that America "reluctantly" supports a repugnant thing like land annexation when most-favored nations like Israel do it because....something.

So when are you going to respond to the fact that your leaders are praising Putin and Orban and hosting their most high profile conference in Hungary?

??? I don't have a leader.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I agree (I'm the PP). I think it's a really dangerous time for Ukraine and anyone in Europe. No one likes to be humiliated and this is humiliating for Russia. It does though make the Democrats look "strong on defense", not that it matters to the MAGA crowd anymore. I think my comments were more directed at the pessimists rooting for Ukraine's demise and to show that Biden made a terrible foreign policy decision. Instead, it looks like supporting Ukraine was the right move. It unified NATO, strengthened western alliances, has allowed the U.S. to test out all kinds of new weapons and at a relatively low cost to the U.S. (and without loss of U.S. lives), has revealed that Russia's military was nothing but a paper tiger, has isolated Russia economically and politically, and has potentially provided the U.S. with a resilient ally on Russia's doorstep. I don't at all want to discount the terrible consequences that this has been to Ukraine though. I think I'm just venting my frustrations with Trump and the MAGA crowd who supported Putin and other dictators like him.

Half of what you wrote is lies. The other half, well....I am sure Ukrainians are super pleased Americans were able to use their misery to test out new weapons. Hey, Raytheon's stock is up and I'm sure that's all that matters to you.

I mean how dumb do you have to be to call Russia's military a paper tiger and Ukraine a capable, resilient ally when Ukraine could not fight without assistance?

Finally, support for dictatorships is not limited to the "MAGA crowd" - every single American president, R or D, has gone on to Riyadh to fellate the Al-Saud, and the present one is no exception so please don't lie that America has a problem with dictatorships. They get along just fine.

They pay homage to KSA because of oil. Why not decouple oil from foreign policy as the dems have tried to do since the late 1970's?

Uh, it's only Trump and you MAGAs that are praising Putin and near fascists like Orban. Where was CPAC held this year? At least the Democrats are trying to eliminate our dependence on oil and gas with alternatives and reluctantly support the Saudis as a check to Iran. And your comment about lies. Yeah, that's the idiot MAGAs. You don't even deign to provide reasons for it. Just spout off what you "feel" to be the case, whether it's true or not. Kind of the "big lie". You MAGAs are all the same. Stupid, ignorant, and unwilling to confront the reality, especially when it collides with your world view.

You don't really know whether this support is reluctant or enthusiastic, you just invent whatever works for your worldview.

Next thing you know you'll say that America "reluctantly" supports a repugnant thing like land annexation when most-favored nations like Israel do it because....something.

So when are you going to respond to the fact that your leaders are praising Putin and Orban and hosting their most high profile conference in Hungary?

??? I don't have a leader.

Oh yes you do. You all pledge fealty to the orange menace who can do no wrong. I'll never understand why conservatives gave it up for TFG.

[Anonymous]

Trumpist are a bunch if surrender monkeys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I agree (I'm the PP). I think it's a really dangerous time for Ukraine and anyone in Europe. No one likes to be humiliated and this is humiliating for Russia. It does though make the Democrats look "strong on defense", not that it matters to the MAGA crowd anymore. I think my comments were more directed at the pessimists rooting for Ukraine's demise and to show that Biden made a terrible foreign policy decision. Instead, it looks like supporting Ukraine was the right move. It unified NATO, strengthened western alliances, has allowed the U.S. to test out all kinds of new weapons and at a relatively low cost to the U.S. (and without loss of U.S. lives), has revealed that Russia's military was nothing but a paper tiger, has isolated Russia economically and politically, and has potentially provided the U.S. with a resilient ally on Russia's doorstep. I don't at all want to discount the terrible consequences that this has been to Ukraine though. I think I'm just venting my frustrations with Trump and the MAGA crowd who supported Putin and other dictators like him.

Half of what you wrote is lies. The other half, well....I am sure Ukrainians are super pleased Americans were able to use their misery to test out new weapons. Hey, Raytheon's stock is up and I'm sure that's all that matters to you.

I mean how dumb do you have to be to call Russia's military a paper tiger and Ukraine a capable, resilient ally when Ukraine could not fight without assistance?

Finally, support for dictatorships is not limited to the "MAGA crowd" - every single American president, R or D, has gone on to Riyadh to fellate the Al-Saud, and the present one is no exception so please don't lie that America has a problem with dictatorships. They get along just fine.

They pay homage to KSA because of oil. Why not decouple oil from foreign policy as the dems have tried to do since the late 1970's?

Uh, it's only Trump and you MAGAs that are praising Putin and near fascists like Orban. Where was CPAC held this year? At least the Democrats are trying to eliminate our dependence on oil and gas with alternatives and reluctantly support the Saudis as a check to Iran. And your comment about lies. Yeah, that's the idiot MAGAs. You don't even deign to provide reasons for it. Just spout off what you "feel" to be the case, whether it's true or not. Kind of the "big lie". You MAGAs are all the same. Stupid, ignorant, and unwilling to confront the reality, especially when it collides with your world view.

You don't really know whether this support is reluctant or enthusiastic, you just invent whatever works for your worldview.

Next thing you know you'll say that America "reluctantly" supports a repugnant thing like land annexation when most-favored nations like Israel do it because....something.

So when are you going to respond to the fact that your leaders are praising Putin and Orban and hosting their most high profile conference in Hungary?

??? I don't have a leader.

Oh yes you do. You all pledge fealty to the orange menace who can do no wrong. I'll never understand why conservatives gave it up for TFG.

You're speaking to the voices in your head.