What is the End Game in Ukraine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I agree (I'm the PP). I think it's a really dangerous time for Ukraine and anyone in Europe. No one likes to be humiliated and this is humiliating for Russia. It does though make the Democrats look "strong on defense", not that it matters to the MAGA crowd anymore. I think my comments were more directed at the pessimists rooting for Ukraine's demise and to show that Biden made a terrible foreign policy decision. Instead, it looks like supporting Ukraine was the right move. It unified NATO, strengthened western alliances, has allowed the U.S. to test out all kinds of new weapons and at a relatively low cost to the U.S. (and without loss of U.S. lives), has revealed that Russia's military was nothing but a paper tiger, has isolated Russia economically and politically, and has potentially provided the U.S. with a resilient ally on Russia's doorstep. I don't at all want to discount the terrible consequences that this has been to Ukraine though. I think I'm just venting my frustrations with Trump and the MAGA crowd who supported Putin and other dictators like him.

Half of what you wrote is lies. The other half, well....I am sure Ukrainians are super pleased Americans were able to use their misery to test out new weapons. Hey, Raytheon's stock is up and I'm sure that's all that matters to you.

I mean how dumb do you have to be to call Russia's military a paper tiger and Ukraine a capable, resilient ally when Ukraine could not fight without assistance?

Finally, support for dictatorships is not limited to the "MAGA crowd" - every single American president, R or D, has gone on to Riyadh to fellate the Al-Saud, and the present one is no exception so please don't lie that America has a problem with dictatorships. They get along just fine.

Not the person you replied to, but I think you're just looking for a fight and trying to side-track the conversation.

We all agree that Ukraine is dependent on NATO/wealthy nations' military and intelligence support. That does not take anything away from Ukraine's clever and praiseworthy way of adapting their military strategy against an enemy greater in numbers and weapon quantity (not quality). It's truly David against Goliath (NATO provided the pebble and sling shot), and that's what people are reacting to.

If you want to discuss the western world's dependence on oil states, create a new thread, and we'll all deplore with you the length American and other Presidents have had to go to in order to keep their economies running.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The US isn’t giving the UKA any new weapons to test out. Putin has lost tens of thousands of troops and has no C2, such that when troops were moved south to reinforce the Kherson Oblast it left a gaping hole for the UKA to exploit. This is Ukrainians fighting for Ukraine. The amount of ammo, fuel and equipment abandoned by the Russians will boggle the mind. The UKA, although dwarfed by Russians, has excellent logistics, training and relies on modern NATO kinetic tactics.

The forces in the forces in the field are fairly even. Russia is a big place and takes a lot of troops just to man border areas.

They put most of their usable forces in Ukraine. That's it unless Putin orders a draft, which he is loathe to do, since it's going to cost him popular support that's already very lukewarm to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The US isn’t giving the UKA any new weapons to test out. Putin has lost tens of thousands of troops and has no C2, such that when troops were moved south to reinforce the Kherson Oblast it left a gaping hole for the UKA to exploit. This is Ukrainians fighting for Ukraine. The amount of ammo, fuel and equipment abandoned by the Russians will boggle the mind. The UKA, although dwarfed by Russians, has excellent logistics, training and relies on modern NATO kinetic tactics.

True that. Russia has supplied twice as much aems and ammo to Ukraine as the entiee West combined.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I agree (I'm the PP). I think it's a really dangerous time for Ukraine and anyone in Europe. No one likes to be humiliated and this is humiliating for Russia. It does though make the Democrats look "strong on defense", not that it matters to the MAGA crowd anymore. I think my comments were more directed at the pessimists rooting for Ukraine's demise and to show that Biden made a terrible foreign policy decision. Instead, it looks like supporting Ukraine was the right move. It unified NATO, strengthened western alliances, has allowed the U.S. to test out all kinds of new weapons and at a relatively low cost to the U.S. (and without loss of U.S. lives), has revealed that Russia's military was nothing but a paper tiger, has isolated Russia economically and politically, and has potentially provided the U.S. with a resilient ally on Russia's doorstep. I don't at all want to discount the terrible consequences that this has been to Ukraine though. I think I'm just venting my frustrations with Trump and the MAGA crowd who supported Putin and other dictators like him.

Half of what you wrote is lies. The other half, well....I am sure Ukrainians are super pleased Americans were able to use their misery to test out new weapons. Hey, Raytheon's stock is up and I'm sure that's all that matters to you.

I mean how dumb do you have to be to call Russia's military a paper tiger and Ukraine a capable, resilient ally when Ukraine could not fight without assistance?

Finally, support for dictatorships is not limited to the "MAGA crowd" - every single American president, R or D, has gone on to Riyadh to fellate the Al-Saud, and the present one is no exception so please don't lie that America has a problem with dictatorships. They get along just fine.

DP, and I agree with the prior poster. Russian corruption and incompetence has been exposed in the most humiliating way. Sure, Ukrainians needed equipment from NATO and others, but they've performed brilliantly. They're well-trained, disciplined, and hard fighting. They've taken some really smart, ballsy risks that have paid off.

[Anonymous]

Although telegraphing a counteroffensive in Kherson was meant to lure Russian troops out of Kharkiv and the Donbas and make it easier to take back that territory, it wasn't entirely a feint. Ukraine lured Russians to the northern side of the Dnieper River and bombed the bridges behind them. Now the Russians are stuck there and sitting ducks for Ukrainian bombs. The UAF will move on Kherson after they've pounded the Russians down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I agree (I'm the PP). I think it's a really dangerous time for Ukraine and anyone in Europe. No one likes to be humiliated and this is humiliating for Russia. It does though make the Democrats look "strong on defense", not that it matters to the MAGA crowd anymore. I think my comments were more directed at the pessimists rooting for Ukraine's demise and to show that Biden made a terrible foreign policy decision. Instead, it looks like supporting Ukraine was the right move. It unified NATO, strengthened western alliances, has allowed the U.S. to test out all kinds of new weapons and at a relatively low cost to the U.S. (and without loss of U.S. lives), has revealed that Russia's military was nothing but a paper tiger, has isolated Russia economically and politically, and has potentially provided the U.S. with a resilient ally on Russia's doorstep. I don't at all want to discount the terrible consequences that this has been to Ukraine though. I think I'm just venting my frustrations with Trump and the MAGA crowd who supported Putin and other dictators like him.

Half of what you wrote is lies. The other half, well....I am sure Ukrainians are super pleased Americans were able to use their misery to test out new weapons. Hey, Raytheon's stock is up and I'm sure that's all that matters to you.

I mean how dumb do you have to be to call Russia's military a paper tiger and Ukraine a capable, resilient ally when Ukraine could not fight without assistance?

Finally, support for dictatorships is not limited to the "MAGA crowd" - every single American president, R or D, has gone on to Riyadh to fellate the Al-Saud, and the present one is no exception so please don't lie that America has a problem with dictatorships. They get along just fine.

They pay homage to KSA because of oil. Why not decouple oil from foreign policy as the dems have tried to do since the late 1970's?

[Anonymous]

UKR now in possession of at least 9 more T80 tanks and other mechanized assets thanks to Russian regrouping in the Kharkiv Oblast.

Oh, and as far as the Russian passports issued to residents of the occupied puppet states that a poster brought up earlier in the thread, Russian authorities are not allowing thousands of these passport holders fleeing from advancing UKR forces to cross the border into Mother Russia. Hahahaha.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I agree (I'm the PP). I think it's a really dangerous time for Ukraine and anyone in Europe. No one likes to be humiliated and this is humiliating for Russia. It does though make the Democrats look "strong on defense", not that it matters to the MAGA crowd anymore. I think my comments were more directed at the pessimists rooting for Ukraine's demise and to show that Biden made a terrible foreign policy decision. Instead, it looks like supporting Ukraine was the right move. It unified NATO, strengthened western alliances, has allowed the U.S. to test out all kinds of new weapons and at a relatively low cost to the U.S. (and without loss of U.S. lives), has revealed that Russia's military was nothing but a paper tiger, has isolated Russia economically and politically, and has potentially provided the U.S. with a resilient ally on Russia's doorstep. I don't at all want to discount the terrible consequences that this has been to Ukraine though. I think I'm just venting my frustrations with Trump and the MAGA crowd who supported Putin and other dictators like him.

Half of what you wrote is lies. The other half, well....I am sure Ukrainians are super pleased Americans were able to use their misery to test out new weapons. Hey, Raytheon's stock is up and I'm sure that's all that matters to you.

I mean how dumb do you have to be to call Russia's military a paper tiger and Ukraine a capable, resilient ally when Ukraine could not fight without assistance?

Finally, support for dictatorships is not limited to the "MAGA crowd" - every single American president, R or D, has gone on to Riyadh to fellate the Al-Saud, and the present one is no exception so please don't lie that America has a problem with dictatorships. They get along just fine.

This.

The stupidity, the double standards, are obvious. And they typically backfire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I agree (I'm the PP). I think it's a really dangerous time for Ukraine and anyone in Europe. No one likes to be humiliated and this is humiliating for Russia. It does though make the Democrats look "strong on defense", not that it matters to the MAGA crowd anymore. I think my comments were more directed at the pessimists rooting for Ukraine's demise and to show that Biden made a terrible foreign policy decision. Instead, it looks like supporting Ukraine was the right move. It unified NATO, strengthened western alliances, has allowed the U.S. to test out all kinds of new weapons and at a relatively low cost to the U.S. (and without loss of U.S. lives), has revealed that Russia's military was nothing but a paper tiger, has isolated Russia economically and politically, and has potentially provided the U.S. with a resilient ally on Russia's doorstep. I don't at all want to discount the terrible consequences that this has been to Ukraine though. I think I'm just venting my frustrations with Trump and the MAGA crowd who supported Putin and other dictators like him.

Half of what you wrote is lies. The other half, well....I am sure Ukrainians are super pleased Americans were able to use their misery to test out new weapons. Hey, Raytheon's stock is up and I'm sure that's all that matters to you.

I mean how dumb do you have to be to call Russia's military a paper tiger and Ukraine a capable, resilient ally when Ukraine could not fight without assistance?

Finally, support for dictatorships is not limited to the "MAGA crowd" - every single American president, R or D, has gone on to Riyadh to fellate the Al-Saud, and the present one is no exception so please don't lie that America has a problem with dictatorships. They get along just fine.

They pay homage to KSA because of oil. Why not decouple oil from foreign policy as the dems have tried to do since the late 1970's?

Uh, it's only Trump and you MAGAs that are praising Putin and near fascists like Orban. Where was CPAC held this year? At least the Democrats are trying to eliminate our dependence on oil and gas with alternatives and reluctantly support the Saudis as a check to Iran. And your comment about lies. Yeah, that's the idiot MAGAs. You don't even deign to provide reasons for it. Just spout off what you "feel" to be the case, whether it's true or not. Kind of the "big lie". You MAGAs are all the same. Stupid, ignorant, and unwilling to confront the reality, especially when it collides with your world view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I agree (I'm the PP). I think it's a really dangerous time for Ukraine and anyone in Europe. No one likes to be humiliated and this is humiliating for Russia. It does though make the Democrats look "strong on defense", not that it matters to the MAGA crowd anymore. I think my comments were more directed at the pessimists rooting for Ukraine's demise and to show that Biden made a terrible foreign policy decision. Instead, it looks like supporting Ukraine was the right move. It unified NATO, strengthened western alliances, has allowed the U.S. to test out all kinds of new weapons and at a relatively low cost to the U.S. (and without loss of U.S. lives), has revealed that Russia's military was nothing but a paper tiger, has isolated Russia economically and politically, and has potentially provided the U.S. with a resilient ally on Russia's doorstep. I don't at all want to discount the terrible consequences that this has been to Ukraine though. I think I'm just venting my frustrations with Trump and the MAGA crowd who supported Putin and other dictators like him.

Half of what you wrote is lies. The other half, well....I am sure Ukrainians are super pleased Americans were able to use their misery to test out new weapons. Hey, Raytheon's stock is up and I'm sure that's all that matters to you.

I mean how dumb do you have to be to call Russia's military a paper tiger and Ukraine a capable, resilient ally when Ukraine could not fight without assistance?

Finally, support for dictatorships is not limited to the "MAGA crowd" - every single American president, R or D, has gone on to Riyadh to fellate the Al-Saud, and the present one is no exception so please don't lie that America has a problem with dictatorships. They get along just fine.

This.

The stupidity, the double standards, are obvious. And they typically backfire.

What double standards? It's you MAGAs that have embraced Putin over a sitting President. Of course, Ukraine wouldn't have survived without Western weapons. But it has and it's thriving against ostensibly a "super power" that has 3-4x its population and resources. But you just like having to be proven wrong so you'll find whatever "Whataboutism" that soothes your feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I agree (I'm the PP). I think it's a really dangerous time for Ukraine and anyone in Europe. No one likes to be humiliated and this is humiliating for Russia. It does though make the Democrats look "strong on defense", not that it matters to the MAGA crowd anymore. I think my comments were more directed at the pessimists rooting for Ukraine's demise and to show that Biden made a terrible foreign policy decision. Instead, it looks like supporting Ukraine was the right move. It unified NATO, strengthened western alliances, has allowed the U.S. to test out all kinds of new weapons and at a relatively low cost to the U.S. (and without loss of U.S. lives), has revealed that Russia's military was nothing but a paper tiger, has isolated Russia economically and politically, and has potentially provided the U.S. with a resilient ally on Russia's doorstep. I don't at all want to discount the terrible consequences that this has been to Ukraine though. I think I'm just venting my frustrations with Trump and the MAGA crowd who supported Putin and other dictators like him.

Half of what you wrote is lies. The other half, well....I am sure Ukrainians are super pleased Americans were able to use their misery to test out new weapons. Hey, Raytheon's stock is up and I'm sure that's all that matters to you.

I mean how dumb do you have to be to call Russia's military a paper tiger and Ukraine a capable, resilient ally when Ukraine could not fight without assistance?

Finally, support for dictatorships is not limited to the "MAGA crowd" - every single American president, R or D, has gone on to Riyadh to fellate the Al-Saud, and the present one is no exception so please don't lie that America has a problem with dictatorships. They get along just fine.

They pay homage to KSA because of oil. Why not decouple oil from foreign policy as the dems have tried to do since the late 1970's?

Uh, it's only Trump and you MAGAs that are praising Putin and near fascists like Orban. Where was CPAC held this year? At least the Democrats are trying to eliminate our dependence on oil and gas with alternatives and reluctantly support the Saudis as a check to Iran. And your comment about lies. Yeah, that's the idiot MAGAs. You don't even deign to provide reasons for it. Just spout off what you "feel" to be the case, whether it's true or not. Kind of the "big lie". You MAGAs are all the same. Stupid, ignorant, and unwilling to confront the reality, especially when it collides with your world view.

I am the person you are replying to. We are saying the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Would sabotaging a nuclear plant be considered the same as launching a nuke themselves? It seems the same thing to me. Would there be the same consequences for Russia?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UKR now in possession of at least 9 more T80 tanks and other mechanized assets thanks to Russian regrouping in the Kharkiv Oblast.

Oh, and as far as the Russian passports issued to residents of the occupied puppet states that a poster brought up earlier in the thread, Russian authorities are not allowing thousands of these passport holders fleeing from advancing UKR forces to cross the border into Mother Russia. Hahahaha.

I am glad it’s funny to you but these people just tried to survive as their towns were overtaken by one army, then the other, rinse and repeat is ahead.
Neither side cares about them
- DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UKR now in possession of at least 9 more T80 tanks and other mechanized assets thanks to Russian regrouping in the Kharkiv Oblast.

Oh, and as far as the Russian passports issued to residents of the occupied puppet states that a poster brought up earlier in the thread, Russian authorities are not allowing thousands of these passport holders fleeing from advancing UKR forces to cross the border into Mother Russia. Hahahaha.

I am glad it’s funny to you but these people just tried to survive as their towns were overtaken by one army, then the other, rinse and repeat is ahead.
Neither side cares about them
- DP

False. Ukraine considers is Ukrainian and the people consider it Ukrainian. If the UKR government and military didn't care, they would not have bothered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UKR now in possession of at least 9 more T80 tanks and other mechanized assets thanks to Russian regrouping in the Kharkiv Oblast.

Oh, and as far as the Russian passports issued to residents of the occupied puppet states that a poster brought up earlier in the thread, Russian authorities are not allowing thousands of these passport holders fleeing from advancing UKR forces to cross the border into Mother Russia. Hahahaha.

I am glad it’s funny to you but these people just tried to survive as their towns were overtaken by one army, then the other, rinse and repeat is ahead.
Neither side cares about them
- DP

False. Ukraine considers is Ukrainian and the people consider it Ukrainian. If the UKR government and military didn't care, they would not have bothered.

They care about the territory sure
People - the Ukrainian officials of all administrations thought them to be rednacks and what else, almost deplorables
I am not saying it commended what Russia did there 8 years ago or now, but I am simply stating the fact that no, Ukrainian admin didn’t care and cares even less now when it sees them as collaborators