BIL offered our vacation home to his brother

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again - First off, my DD her cousin are not 17!! They’re in middle school! Honestly I’d say my DH usually the more laid back guy over me but this just hit him. Our weekend house is truly our refuge and part of why we chose to get so close to where we guessed we’d always live is being able to use often. Truly our home away from home.
We did see SIL & family yesterday but it just wasn’t time to bring up any further. We (DH & I) aren’t really to go as nuclear as some here are as family harmony most important. I understand some may wonder how it could be after this breech but we’re both comfortable with having addressed it, changed key codes, not offering them use of. Hopefully LDW will go well.

Sorry OP, I thought I remembered they were 17 year old girls. Memory is funny!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:This is OP & update
DH did talk to his sister earlier in week and she first presented her DHs brother & family being there as total misunderstanding, no big deal. We did learn that they had had this visit them/stay over when they were using our house w/our permission - which while I personally would have mentioned and probably I, not necessarily my DH, would have been fine with. When DH pressed point of our invitation have always been clear (listing days/dates) his sister was ‘we assumed it was a little wishy washy’ (Urghh we’ve ALWAYS been specific!!) She acted like it was protecting our interests that they’d told them that since THEY weren’t coming the other family should just treat house like a camp with a toilet and pool - and not go in house. And she pointed out that they left as soon as we came. Because it was a call, not in person, DH felt like he made his points and will follow up when we see them - actually tomorrow at a cousin’s house.
We’re still doing Labor Day but my DH says he’s done with them using house without us. We’re not going to make some big announcement-but obviously they took our generosity as a sense of ownership we never intended.

New poster. Glad you're still doing Labor Day. MANY PPs don't seem to understand, or don't care, that the cousins are close. You and DH are doing the right thing NOT to make the cousins pay for this incident by axing a tradition they anticipate and enjoy. You are modeling for the kids that "scorched earth"/estrangement/"cutting people off" is not a mature reaction and that kids should not have to experience fallout from what were terrible decisions by adults. Good for you and DH. I'd add, though -- please try to keep further discussion of this out of the kids' earshot. They already are surely well aware of all the upset; your own kids were there when the strangers were at the house. I would try to ensure that this doesn't turn into a constant sore spot the kids hear about over and over. Yes, it IS a sore spot, but it shouldn't have to be one that takes up the kids' mental real estate.

I totally agree.

Agree. Surprised at the number of people who want to throw this relationship away. It may never be the same
Because of what they did. But it is worth trying to keep a relationship.

I sort of agree. I wouldn’t write them off for this one thing, but I also wouldn’t try to hold on too hard to a relationship with people who lack judgment on that level and would loan out my house to people I don’t know on the sly. It’s not like they brought their widowed neighbor with no family to thanksgiving so she wouldn’t have to spend her first holiday without her spouse alone. They secretly invited someone to camp on their porch and use their pool for a weekend. That’s not generous and kind, it’s reckless and greedy. I’d be worried about what other boundaries they’d cross and how else they’d take advantage, so I’d never be able to fully enjoy my time with them because I’d always have my guard up. That doesn’t sound like a great relationship.

Re: the bold, you seem to anticipate that you'd conflate this specific incident with every other interaction, forever, going forward. Of course this incident is big, and would make anyone want to watch for future cases where these relaties might take advantage. But if an incident can never be allowed to live in the past, you will indeed always have your guard up and that will be giving the relatives power over you. They'll be dominating your mental real estate. Why give them SO much power?

It’s not giving them power. It’s more like, I can’t trust them not to invite strangers to my home when I’m not there, which seems like a very basic and normal standard to have. If I can’t trust someone on that level, why would I bother trying to maintain a relationship with them? I’d either have some kind of very superficial relationship with them, to try to let the cousins maintain a relationship, or I’d wind up doing a slow fade. It would be far more stressful to me to have to keep my guard up and change codes or figure out ways to have them over and not share the code with them. I’d be wary of letting my kids visit them without me because they seem to have ridiculously bad judgment. It doesn’t seem like I’d be able to get much out of the relationship beyond stress, so it’s probably not one I’d nurture. If distancing myself from someone is giving them power, so be it.

The more I consider what they did and how I’d react, the more my mind is blown that they thought that was okay. They haven’t even shown any contrition, which indicates they don’t think they’re wrong, which makes me wary. It would be different if they recognized that they did something objectively wrong, and it’s not just that OP felt upset about them doing a normal thing that most people do. I’m just not sure how to move forward with a relationship with a couple (not even just one weirdo married to a normal person who tries to be a voice of reason) who doesn’t understand that they can’t invite randos to squat on my patio when they think I’m not home. I don’t want to find out the hard way what other social norms, safety guidelines, or laws they don’t comply with.

It sounds like OP's husband (brother of SIL) is the one who was MORE upset, and as it's his relationship with his sibling, I'd follow his lead on how much to interact with and trust them going forward. It does suck to realize that people you care about are willing to deceive you by omission and take advantage of your generosity, but if your relationship going forward doesn't involve trusting them with your home when you're not there, then their ability to harm you will be limited. OP said her daughter is 17, so it's not like we're talking about SIL and BIL being around a toddler or whatnot. I understand why you are drawn to this story (I am too!) but you have to adjust your assessment for OP's particulars. I think the biggest factor here is that OP is more laidback and forgiving than her husband about this and so therefore she doesn't need to worry about drawing the boundaries herself.

I hear what you’re saying. I think it’s awesome that OP isn’t going to go nuclear. I don’t think I would either. I just know myself well enough to know I couldn’t trust someone like that again. It would be stressful for me to be around them. It always surprises me when others welcome people back after they abuse their trust. I’d probably keep it to holidays and family get togethers, and maybe invite their kid over to hang out (but not send my kid to their house much without me).

Also, I’m glad OP clarified their ages. I didn’t think they were 17. They’re getting to the testing boundaries age. I have to wonder if an adult who invites their friends to camp on someone else’s porch and use their pool without permission (and who hangs around people who would want to do that) is going to have firm boundaries about drugs, alcohol, sex, safe driving, and other rules kids like to break that can have life altering consequences. That’s what I was thinking about when I made the comment about kids earlier. They don’t seem to be the best role models.

[Anonymous]

OP, I think you're right not to go nuclear. What your relatives did was outrageous, but if the family relationships are important to all of you, it's worthwhile to find some way to preserve them for the future.

Still, you and your DH also have to find some way to address this directly. Otherwise it will come back to haunt you. We have a family beach house shared between 3 siblings, and it's amazing to me how much tension it causes - and a lot of it seems to involve perceived misdeeds from years ago. Ours is a different situation obviously, but I've realized belatedly that these situations tend to bring out the worst of long-established sibling dynamics.

So change the codes, definitely set up security cameras, and make it clear to the relatives that the parameters for using the house have changed and why that is. Otherwise, I promise you they won't get it, you or your DH will continue to resent them, and the whole thing will fester and get worse instead of better.

[Anonymous]

Why do people think canceling Labor Day weekend is going nuclear? Going nuclear is never talking to them again or suing them for giving out your codes. Canceling Labor Day weekend is taking a step back, putting in boundaries and giving time to rebuild relationships and trust before spending an entire long weekend together in cramped space.

[Anonymous]

I could not spend LDW with these people. So shady and BIL will act clueless if situation discussed. BIL may go no contact if you restrict access to the house. Would be a win win for you.

[Anonymous]

I'm trying to understand what the screened in porch is like that it can sleep 4 - do you have several sectionals? They did bring a tent with pads?

I am weird out people sleeping on couches sometimes, especially if the furniture is wicker or more flimsy. Especially adult-size man people: you stretch when you sleep, you indent cushions, you sweat, etc... I would be SO ICKED OUT to have 3-4 people sleeping on my furniture that I want to relax on the next day. And as for coolers, etc... that's just a lot of wear and tear and food prep that normally doesn't happen on your porch. It's a lot.

Eww eww eww.

This is nuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do people think canceling Labor Day weekend is going nuclear? Going nuclear is never talking to them again or suing them for giving out your codes. Canceling Labor Day weekend is taking a step back, putting in boundaries and giving time to rebuild relationships and trust before spending an entire long weekend together in cramped space.

OP was clear that the Labor Day gathering is a tradition in the family and something the kids, who are close, look forward to greatly. People here, including me, are saying that canceling that would be punitive toward the kids, who were not involved in the boundary-busting stupidity. Not intentionally punitive, but still, that is how the kids would feel about it, and it is not caving in or being a doormat to say, "This was a bad situation, but we can be civilized for a weekend so the kids aren't punished for the adults' stupidity."

OP and her DH can put in rules and cameras without having to drop out of something that other family members, who were uninvolved in the vacation house nonsense, are expecting to enjoy. OP sounds like she is going to be good at navigating the weekend, and she's already said the LDW is going to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I can't stop from coming back to read this. I have more than a mild fascination with people who display astounding bad judgment. The BiL here may take the cake for 2022.

Really admire your not wanting to blow it all up, thinking of your DCs, etc. Also seems like a "trust and verify" situation given that the bad judgment here is truly truly truly next level - not necessarily akin to someone cheating on you but pretty darn close.

Sounds like you are trying to take your cues from DH while gently reminding him of the bigger pic. Hope your SiL understands how much are you doing here to salvage the situation. That family is so lucky to have you as an in-law.

DP. To the bold above, I say, hear hear. OP is staying cool, recognizing the seriousness of what was done, but also not letting it make her lose all perspective. Bravo, OP. You are indeed being a great spouse and in-law, and a great parent here, as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people think canceling Labor Day weekend is going nuclear? Going nuclear is never talking to them again or suing them for giving out your codes. Canceling Labor Day weekend is taking a step back, putting in boundaries and giving time to rebuild relationships and trust before spending an entire long weekend together in cramped space.

OP was clear that the Labor Day gathering is a tradition in the family and something the kids, who are close, look forward to greatly. People here, including me, are saying that canceling that would be punitive toward the kids, who were not involved in the boundary-busting stupidity. Not intentionally punitive, but still, that is how the kids would feel about it, and it is not caving in or being a doormat to say, "This was a bad situation, but we can be civilized for a weekend so the kids aren't punished for the adults' stupidity."

OP and her DH can put in rules and cameras without having to drop out of something that other family members, who were uninvolved in the vacation house nonsense, are expecting to enjoy. OP sounds like she is going to be good at navigating the weekend, and she's already said the LDW is going to happen.

The kids will be fine having one Labor Day without cousins. I would revoke their invitation because I wouldn’t want to deal with drama when they try to spin their crappy behavior or act clueless. Agree that stepping back is not going nuclear. I think your reaction also depends on how dysfunctional you are in being a user or a giver. Users are going to squawk no big deal, let them come don’t rock the boat, move on…because they pull crap like this too. Givers that are enablers will advise a go along to get along approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people think canceling Labor Day weekend is going nuclear? Going nuclear is never talking to them again or suing them for giving out your codes. Canceling Labor Day weekend is taking a step back, putting in boundaries and giving time to rebuild relationships and trust before spending an entire long weekend together in cramped space.

OP was clear that the Labor Day gathering is a tradition in the family and something the kids, who are close, look forward to greatly. People here, including me, are saying that canceling that would be punitive toward the kids, who were not involved in the boundary-busting stupidity. Not intentionally punitive, but still, that is how the kids would feel about it, and it is not caving in or being a doormat to say, "This was a bad situation, but we can be civilized for a weekend so the kids aren't punished for the adults' stupidity."

OP and her DH can put in rules and cameras without having to drop out of something that other family members, who were uninvolved in the vacation house nonsense, are expecting to enjoy. OP sounds like she is going to be good at navigating the weekend, and she's already said the LDW is going to happen.

The kids will be fine having one Labor Day without cousins. I would revoke their invitation because I wouldn’t want to deal with drama when they try to spin their crappy behavior or act clueless. Agree that stepping back is not going nuclear. I think your reaction also depends on how dysfunctional you are in being a user or a giver. Users are going to squawk no big deal, let them come don’t rock the boat, move on…because they pull crap like this too. Givers that are enablers will advise a go along to get along approach.

I think you missed where I said: OP has already posted here that Labor Day will go ahead this year. Discussion's done. And OP's DH is already in the process of dealing with these in-laws re: the boundary-stomping.

Read OP's own posts. She's not going to let them "squawk no big deal" but she also is not going to lose her cool over this and create further drama. Yes, of course the kids can survive one Labor Day without cousins. But why should they have to, if the adults actually act like adults for one weekend together, which is what OP is doing? I swear, DCUM is full of people who turn everything into a hill to die on. OP is not like that. And it's not being an "enabler" or "dysfunctional" for OP and her DH to make the choice they've made. So much pseudo-therapy talk for a situation that is basically this: Change codes, put up cameras, be crystal clear the in-laws were insanely wrong and this isn't forgotten, and never let them use the house again on their own. Done. They are well punished without OP and DH ginning up additional drama about Labor Day. Glad OP is so sensible.

[Anonymous]

Nah, OP is enabler who goes along to get along, doesn’t mind drama. Her husband wanted to cancel and it’s pretty clear from her posts that she doesn’t want to cancel. She’s into big family gatherings, likes to play hostess and doesn’t have to entertain the kids as much if cousins are around.

Her husband’s sister is a jerk. Not only did she pull this crap, she has yet to apologize instead trying to minimize her brother, OP’s feelings and then trying to claim misunderstandings and then rationalization. OP and sister will have a good time, OPs husband will have a crappy time.

[Anonymous]

The family has the perfect way to manipulate OP and her family in the future-using cousins as pawns. It is a good lessons for cousins to learn family is not an excuse to take advantage of eachother. Losing one Labor Day together won't ruin the bond. My guess is the moochers will ruin the bond of they aren't able to get those codes again and freeload.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nah, OP is enabler who goes along to get along, doesn’t mind drama. Her husband wanted to cancel and it’s pretty clear from her posts that she doesn’t want to cancel. She’s into big family gatherings, likes to play hostess and doesn’t have to entertain the kids as much if cousins are around.

Her husband’s sister is a jerk. Not only did she pull this crap, she has yet to apologize instead trying to minimize her brother, OP’s feelings and then trying to claim misunderstandings and then rationalization. OP and sister will have a good time, OPs husband will have a crappy time.

Incredible psychoanalysis, Dr. Freud! Danke Schoen!
How ever did anyone get through life without your baseless diagnoses before?

You don't know the OP, and you have less than ZERO clue of what type of person she really is.
It seems you're projecting a bit too much here (or you're putting that associates degree in psychology from University of Phoenix to g̶o̶o̶d̶ ridiculous use here).
Her story really triggered you, huh?

Thankfully, OP isn't a bitter, impulsive, irrational & hate filled person, because resorting to burning bridges as a manor of resolving emotions for feeling wronged, maltreated or taken anywhere of (rather than having a mature conversation, which may include creating appropriate boundaries, constraints, limitations or restrictions) is what emotionally stunted people do, who don't have the intellectual resources, capabilities, competence or wherewithal, to do the work to get through such ordeals, while befitting in keeping the bonds tight).

What the "difficult" personality does instead, is goes through life cutting off, cutting out and burning bridges, no matter who else it affects... as long as they feel better, so be it.
We certainly can't have BIL & SIL feeling like they "won" right? Or that they got off the hook without receiving their 20 full lashes across their backs??
"Giving" in like OP is doing is weak, weak, weak and that would be a fate worse than death, right??

What an awful way to manage life (apologies... rather, NOT-manage-life) and a far worse example to set/pattern for your children.

Oh, see... that WAS fun!
Of course, you don't need to be a psychiatrist to figure the difficult personality out, it's so simple... it's basic common sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nah, OP is enabler who goes along to get along, doesn’t mind drama. Her husband wanted to cancel and it’s pretty clear from her posts that she doesn’t want to cancel. She’s into big family gatherings, likes to play hostess and doesn’t have to entertain the kids as much if cousins are around.

Her husband’s sister is a jerk. Not only did she pull this crap, she has yet to apologize instead trying to minimize her brother, OP’s feelings and then trying to claim misunderstandings and then rationalization. OP and sister will have a good time, OPs husband will have a crappy time.

Incredible psychoanalysis, Dr. Freud! Danke Schoen!
How ever did anyone get through life without your baseless diagnoses before?

You don't know the OP, and you have less than ZERO clue of what type of person she really is.
It seems you're projecting a bit too much here (or you're putting that associates degree in psychology from University of Phoenix to g̶o̶o̶d̶ ridiculous use here).
Her story really triggered you, huh?

Thankfully, OP isn't a bitter, impulsive, irrational & hate filled person, because resorting to burning bridges as a manor of resolving emotions for feeling wronged, maltreated or taken anywhere of (rather than having a mature conversation, which may include creating appropriate boundaries, constraints, limitations or restrictions) is what emotionally stunted people do, who don't have the intellectual resources, capabilities, competence or wherewithal, to do the work to get through such ordeals, while befitting in keeping the bonds tight).

What the "difficult" personality does instead, is goes through life cutting off, cutting out and burning bridges, no matter who else it affects... as long as they feel better, so be it.
We certainly can't have BIL & SIL feeling like they "won" right? Or that they got off the hook without receiving their 20 full lashes across their backs??
"Giving" in like OP is doing is weak, weak, weak and that would be a fate worse than death, right??

What an awful way to manage life (apologies... rather, NOT-manage-life) and a far worse example to set/pattern for your children.

Oh, see... that WAS fun!
Of course, you don't need to be a psychiatrist to figure the difficult personality out, it's so simple... it's basic common sense.

Ummm..who is the one triggered? Look in the mirror. Geeesh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nah, OP is enabler who goes along to get along, doesn’t mind drama. Her husband wanted to cancel and it’s pretty clear from her posts that she doesn’t want to cancel. She’s into big family gatherings, likes to play hostess and doesn’t have to entertain the kids as much if cousins are around.

Her husband’s sister is a jerk. Not only did she pull this crap, she has yet to apologize instead trying to minimize her brother, OP’s feelings and then trying to claim misunderstandings and then rationalization. OP and sister will have a good time, OPs husband will have a crappy time.

Incredible psychoanalysis, Dr. Freud! Danke Schoen!
How ever did anyone get through life without your baseless diagnoses before?

You don't know the OP, and you have less than ZERO clue of what type of person she really is.
It seems you're projecting a bit too much here (or you're putting that associates degree in psychology from University of Phoenix to g̶o̶o̶d̶ ridiculous use here).
Her story really triggered you, huh?

Thankfully, OP isn't a bitter, impulsive, irrational & hate filled person, because resorting to burning bridges as a manor of resolving emotions for feeling wronged, maltreated or taken anywhere of (rather than having a mature conversation, which may include creating appropriate boundaries, constraints, limitations or restrictions) is what emotionally stunted people do, who don't have the intellectual resources, capabilities, competence or wherewithal, to do the work to get through such ordeals, while befitting in keeping the bonds tight).

What the "difficult" personality does instead, is goes through life cutting off, cutting out and burning bridges, no matter who else it affects... as long as they feel better, so be it.
We certainly can't have BIL & SIL feeling like they "won" right? Or that they got off the hook without receiving their 20 full lashes across their backs??
"Giving" in like OP is doing is weak, weak, weak and that would be a fate worse than death, right??

What an awful way to manage life (apologies... rather, NOT-manage-life) and a far worse example to set/pattern for your children.

Oh, see... that WAS fun!
Of course, you don't need to be a psychiatrist to figure the difficult personality out, it's so simple... it's basic common sense.

Good thing you revived this thread to make sure everyone knows what a nutcase you are. Yikes.