BIL offered our vacation home to his brother

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP & update
DH did talk to his sister earlier in week and she first presented her DHs brother & family being there as total misunderstanding, no big deal. We did learn that they had had this visit them/stay over when they were using our house w/our permission - which while I personally would have mentioned and probably I, not necessarily my DH, would have been fine with. When DH pressed point of our invitation have always been clear (listing days/dates) his sister was ‘we assumed it was a little wishy washy’ (Urghh we’ve ALWAYS been specific!!) She acted like it was protecting our interests that they’d told them that since THEY weren’t coming the other family should just treat house like a camp with a toilet and pool - and not go in house. And she pointed out that they left as soon as we came. Because it was a call, not in person, DH felt like he made his points and will follow up when we see them - actually tomorrow at a cousin’s house.
We’re still doing Labor Day but my DH says he’s done with them using house without us. We’re not going to make some big announcement-but obviously they took our generosity as a sense of ownership we never intended.

New poster. Glad you're still doing Labor Day. MANY PPs don't seem to understand, or don't care, that the cousins are close. You and DH are doing the right thing NOT to make the cousins pay for this incident by axing a tradition they anticipate and enjoy. You are modeling for the kids that "scorched earth"/estrangement/"cutting people off" is not a mature reaction and that kids should not have to experience fallout from what were terrible decisions by adults. Good for you and DH. I'd add, though -- please try to keep further discussion of this out of the kids' earshot. They already are surely well aware of all the upset; your own kids were there when the strangers were at the house. I would try to ensure that this doesn't turn into a constant sore spot the kids hear about over and over. Yes, it IS a sore spot, but it shouldn't have to be one that takes up the kids' mental real estate.

I totally agree.

Agree. Surprised at the number of people who want to throw this relationship away. It may never be the same
Because of what they did. But it is worth trying to keep a relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP & update
DH did talk to his sister earlier in week and she first presented her DHs brother & family being there as total misunderstanding, no big deal. We did learn that they had had this visit them/stay over when they were using our house w/our permission - which while I personally would have mentioned and probably I, not necessarily my DH, would have been fine with. When DH pressed point of our invitation have always been clear (listing days/dates) his sister was ‘we assumed it was a little wishy washy’ (Urghh we’ve ALWAYS been specific!!) She acted like it was protecting our interests that they’d told them that since THEY weren’t coming the other family should just treat house like a camp with a toilet and pool - and not go in house. And she pointed out that they left as soon as we came. Because it was a call, not in person, DH felt like he made his points and will follow up when we see them - actually tomorrow at a cousin’s house.
We’re still doing Labor Day but my DH says he’s done with them using house without us. We’re not going to make some big announcement-but obviously they took our generosity as a sense of ownership we never intended.

New poster. Glad you're still doing Labor Day. MANY PPs don't seem to understand, or don't care, that the cousins are close. You and DH are doing the right thing NOT to make the cousins pay for this incident by axing a tradition they anticipate and enjoy. You are modeling for the kids that "scorched earth"/estrangement/"cutting people off" is not a mature reaction and that kids should not have to experience fallout from what were terrible decisions by adults. Good for you and DH. I'd add, though -- please try to keep further discussion of this out of the kids' earshot. They already are surely well aware of all the upset; your own kids were there when the strangers were at the house. I would try to ensure that this doesn't turn into a constant sore spot the kids hear about over and over. Yes, it IS a sore spot, but it shouldn't have to be one that takes up the kids' mental real estate.

I totally agree.

Agree. Surprised at the number of people who want to throw this relationship away. It may never be the same
Because of what they did. But it is worth trying to keep a relationship.

I sort of agree. I wouldn’t write them off for this one thing, but I also wouldn’t try to hold on too hard to a relationship with people who lack judgment on that level and would loan out my house to people I don’t know on the sly. It’s not like they brought their widowed neighbor with no family to thanksgiving so she wouldn’t have to spend her first holiday without her spouse alone. They secretly invited someone to camp on their porch and use their pool for a weekend. That’s not generous and kind, it’s reckless and greedy. I’d be worried about what other boundaries they’d cross and how else they’d take advantage, so I’d never be able to fully enjoy my time with them because I’d always have my guard up. That doesn’t sound like a great relationship.

[Anonymous]

The only choices aren't throw away the relationship or sleep with one eye open. I wouldn't throw a relationship away at the first road bump, even if it is a very big one. You can have a cooling off period and then resume relations cautiously. And of course, just don't give them the new code!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP & update
DH did talk to his sister earlier in week and she first presented her DHs brother & family being there as total misunderstanding, no big deal. We did learn that they had had this visit them/stay over when they were using our house w/our permission - which while I personally would have mentioned and probably I, not necessarily my DH, would have been fine with. When DH pressed point of our invitation have always been clear (listing days/dates) his sister was ‘we assumed it was a little wishy washy’ (Urghh we’ve ALWAYS been specific!!) She acted like it was protecting our interests that they’d told them that since THEY weren’t coming the other family should just treat house like a camp with a toilet and pool - and not go in house. And she pointed out that they left as soon as we came. Because it was a call, not in person, DH felt like he made his points and will follow up when we see them - actually tomorrow at a cousin’s house.
We’re still doing Labor Day but my DH says he’s done with them using house without us. We’re not going to make some big announcement-but obviously they took our generosity as a sense of ownership we never intended.

New poster. Glad you're still doing Labor Day. MANY PPs don't seem to understand, or don't care, that the cousins are close. You and DH are doing the right thing NOT to make the cousins pay for this incident by axing a tradition they anticipate and enjoy. You are modeling for the kids that "scorched earth"/estrangement/"cutting people off" is not a mature reaction and that kids should not have to experience fallout from what were terrible decisions by adults. Good for you and DH. I'd add, though -- please try to keep further discussion of this out of the kids' earshot. They already are surely well aware of all the upset; your own kids were there when the strangers were at the house. I would try to ensure that this doesn't turn into a constant sore spot the kids hear about over and over. Yes, it IS a sore spot, but it shouldn't have to be one that takes up the kids' mental real estate.

NP. Totally respect your position, but disagree. I think it’s good for the kids to see boundaries modeled and how to manage a second home. It’s not a relationship I’d be interested in maintaining.

I never said to show the kids that boundaries don't matter. I said that the kids-- you did read what OP said about how close two of the cousins are, right?!--should not have to pay for the idiocy of one set of adults. Of course OP and her DH can talk to their kids about how aunt and uncle overstepped but it's simply punishing the kids for the dumb adults' entitled behavior if the kids are kept apart over this. I am never a "family is everything" poster like some on these threads, but in this case, I think it is NOT modeling "lack of boundaries" if the OP and her DH still maintain contact with the BIL/SIL/cousins after this.

"It's not a relationship I"d be interested in maintaining"--? Yes, it was a huge boundary overstep but you'd trash an entire sibling relationship plus all the ancillary relationships around it, permanently, over a FIRST time infraction?

That's not "modeling boundaries." That's teaching the kids that no one ever gets a second chance, period. Not a great lessons to teach kids; they'll feel that mom and dad surely will apply it to them, too.

And modeling cautious forgiveness is not at all the same thing as being a doormat.

But people here love to rush straight to the nuclear option and love to call that "setting boundaries." They don't know how to choose which hills to die on, so they die on every hill and end up dumping whole relationships the very first time there's an overstep. And yes, I do realize this was a giganic overstep. But it wasn't made by the kids in either family.

[Anonymous]

SIL and BIL clearly started thinking of OP’s vaca home as an extended family vaca home. This situation gives OP an Opportunity to reset everyone’s thinking. No more open ended offering, no more filling them in about the OP’s plans for using the house, no more mentioning when the house is vacant, changed codes, and most importantly use your words and say “no, that doesn’t work for us” when they inevitably ask. Boundaries. Set them. And please put up cameras. They are cheap and super effective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP & update
DH did talk to his sister earlier in week and she first presented her DHs brother & family being there as total misunderstanding, no big deal. We did learn that they had had this visit them/stay over when they were using our house w/our permission - which while I personally would have mentioned and probably I, not necessarily my DH, would have been fine with. When DH pressed point of our invitation have always been clear (listing days/dates) his sister was ‘we assumed it was a little wishy washy’ (Urghh we’ve ALWAYS been specific!!) She acted like it was protecting our interests that they’d told them that since THEY weren’t coming the other family should just treat house like a camp with a toilet and pool - and not go in house. And she pointed out that they left as soon as we came. Because it was a call, not in person, DH felt like he made his points and will follow up when we see them - actually tomorrow at a cousin’s house.
We’re still doing Labor Day but my DH says he’s done with them using house without us. We’re not going to make some big announcement-but obviously they took our generosity as a sense of ownership we never intended.

New poster. Glad you're still doing Labor Day. MANY PPs don't seem to understand, or don't care, that the cousins are close. You and DH are doing the right thing NOT to make the cousins pay for this incident by axing a tradition they anticipate and enjoy. You are modeling for the kids that "scorched earth"/estrangement/"cutting people off" is not a mature reaction and that kids should not have to experience fallout from what were terrible decisions by adults. Good for you and DH. I'd add, though -- please try to keep further discussion of this out of the kids' earshot. They already are surely well aware of all the upset; your own kids were there when the strangers were at the house. I would try to ensure that this doesn't turn into a constant sore spot the kids hear about over and over. Yes, it IS a sore spot, but it shouldn't have to be one that takes up the kids' mental real estate.

I totally agree.

Agree. Surprised at the number of people who want to throw this relationship away. It may never be the same
Because of what they did. But it is worth trying to keep a relationship.

I sort of agree. I wouldn’t write them off for this one thing, but I also wouldn’t try to hold on too hard to a relationship with people who lack judgment on that level and would loan out my house to people I don’t know on the sly. It’s not like they brought their widowed neighbor with no family to thanksgiving so she wouldn’t have to spend her first holiday without her spouse alone. They secretly invited someone to camp on their porch and use their pool for a weekend. That’s not generous and kind, it’s reckless and greedy. I’d be worried about what other boundaries they’d cross and how else they’d take advantage, so I’d never be able to fully enjoy my time with them because I’d always have my guard up. That doesn’t sound like a great relationship.

Re: the bold, you seem to anticipate that you'd conflate this specific incident with every other interaction, forever, going forward. Of course this incident is big, and would make anyone want to watch for future cases where these relaties might take advantage. But if an incident can never be allowed to live in the past, you will indeed always have your guard up and that will be giving the relatives power over you. They'll be dominating your mental real estate. Why give them SO much power?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP & update
DH did talk to his sister earlier in week and she first presented her DHs brother & family being there as total misunderstanding, no big deal. We did learn that they had had this visit them/stay over when they were using our house w/our permission - which while I personally would have mentioned and probably I, not necessarily my DH, would have been fine with. When DH pressed point of our invitation have always been clear (listing days/dates) his sister was ‘we assumed it was a little wishy washy’ (Urghh we’ve ALWAYS been specific!!) She acted like it was protecting our interests that they’d told them that since THEY weren’t coming the other family should just treat house like a camp with a toilet and pool - and not go in house. And she pointed out that they left as soon as we came. Because it was a call, not in person, DH felt like he made his points and will follow up when we see them - actually tomorrow at a cousin’s house.
We’re still doing Labor Day but my DH says he’s done with them using house without us. We’re not going to make some big announcement-but obviously they took our generosity as a sense of ownership we never intended.

New poster. Glad you're still doing Labor Day. MANY PPs don't seem to understand, or don't care, that the cousins are close. You and DH are doing the right thing NOT to make the cousins pay for this incident by axing a tradition they anticipate and enjoy. You are modeling for the kids that "scorched earth"/estrangement/"cutting people off" is not a mature reaction and that kids should not have to experience fallout from what were terrible decisions by adults. Good for you and DH. I'd add, though -- please try to keep further discussion of this out of the kids' earshot. They already are surely well aware of all the upset; your own kids were there when the strangers were at the house. I would try to ensure that this doesn't turn into a constant sore spot the kids hear about over and over. Yes, it IS a sore spot, but it shouldn't have to be one that takes up the kids' mental real estate.

I totally agree.

Agree. Surprised at the number of people who want to throw this relationship away. It may never be the same
Because of what they did. But it is worth trying to keep a relationship.

I sort of agree. I wouldn’t write them off for this one thing, but I also wouldn’t try to hold on too hard to a relationship with people who lack judgment on that level and would loan out my house to people I don’t know on the sly. It’s not like they brought their widowed neighbor with no family to thanksgiving so she wouldn’t have to spend her first holiday without her spouse alone. They secretly invited someone to camp on their porch and use their pool for a weekend. That’s not generous and kind, it’s reckless and greedy. I’d be worried about what other boundaries they’d cross and how else they’d take advantage, so I’d never be able to fully enjoy my time with them because I’d always have my guard up. That doesn’t sound like a great relationship.

Re: the bold, you seem to anticipate that you'd conflate this specific incident with every other interaction, forever, going forward. Of course this incident is big, and would make anyone want to watch for future cases where these relaties might take advantage. But if an incident can never be allowed to live in the past, you will indeed always have your guard up and that will be giving the relatives power over you. They'll be dominating your mental real estate. Why give them SO much power?

It’s not giving them power. It’s more like, I can’t trust them not to invite strangers to my home when I’m not there, which seems like a very basic and normal standard to have. If I can’t trust someone on that level, why would I bother trying to maintain a relationship with them? I’d either have some kind of very superficial relationship with them, to try to let the cousins maintain a relationship, or I’d wind up doing a slow fade. It would be far more stressful to me to have to keep my guard up and change codes or figure out ways to have them over and not share the code with them. I’d be wary of letting my kids visit them without me because they seem to have ridiculously bad judgment. It doesn’t seem like I’d be able to get much out of the relationship beyond stress, so it’s probably not one I’d nurture. If distancing myself from someone is giving them power, so be it.

The more I consider what they did and how I’d react, the more my mind is blown that they thought that was okay. They haven’t even shown any contrition, which indicates they don’t think they’re wrong, which makes me wary. It would be different if they recognized that they did something objectively wrong, and it’s not just that OP felt upset about them doing a normal thing that most people do. I’m just not sure how to move forward with a relationship with a couple (not even just one weirdo married to a normal person who tries to be a voice of reason) who doesn’t understand that they can’t invite randos to squat on my patio when they think I’m not home. I don’t want to find out the hard way what other social norms, safety guidelines, or laws they don’t comply with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP & update
DH did talk to his sister earlier in week and she first presented her DHs brother & family being there as total misunderstanding, no big deal. We did learn that they had had this visit them/stay over when they were using our house w/our permission - which while I personally would have mentioned and probably I, not necessarily my DH, would have been fine with. When DH pressed point of our invitation have always been clear (listing days/dates) his sister was ‘we assumed it was a little wishy washy’ (Urghh we’ve ALWAYS been specific!!) She acted like it was protecting our interests that they’d told them that since THEY weren’t coming the other family should just treat house like a camp with a toilet and pool - and not go in house. And she pointed out that they left as soon as we came. Because it was a call, not in person, DH felt like he made his points and will follow up when we see them - actually tomorrow at a cousin’s house.
We’re still doing Labor Day but my DH says he’s done with them using house without us. We’re not going to make some big announcement-but obviously they took our generosity as a sense of ownership we never intended.

New poster. Glad you're still doing Labor Day. MANY PPs don't seem to understand, or don't care, that the cousins are close. You and DH are doing the right thing NOT to make the cousins pay for this incident by axing a tradition they anticipate and enjoy. You are modeling for the kids that "scorched earth"/estrangement/"cutting people off" is not a mature reaction and that kids should not have to experience fallout from what were terrible decisions by adults. Good for you and DH. I'd add, though -- please try to keep further discussion of this out of the kids' earshot. They already are surely well aware of all the upset; your own kids were there when the strangers were at the house. I would try to ensure that this doesn't turn into a constant sore spot the kids hear about over and over. Yes, it IS a sore spot, but it shouldn't have to be one that takes up the kids' mental real estate.

I totally agree.

Agree. Surprised at the number of people who want to throw this relationship away. It may never be the same
Because of what they did. But it is worth trying to keep a relationship.

I sort of agree. I wouldn’t write them off for this one thing, but I also wouldn’t try to hold on too hard to a relationship with people who lack judgment on that level and would loan out my house to people I don’t know on the sly. It’s not like they brought their widowed neighbor with no family to thanksgiving so she wouldn’t have to spend her first holiday without her spouse alone. They secretly invited someone to camp on their porch and use their pool for a weekend. That’s not generous and kind, it’s reckless and greedy. I’d be worried about what other boundaries they’d cross and how else they’d take advantage, so I’d never be able to fully enjoy my time with them because I’d always have my guard up. That doesn’t sound like a great relationship.

Re: the bold, you seem to anticipate that you'd conflate this specific incident with every other interaction, forever, going forward. Of course this incident is big, and would make anyone want to watch for future cases where these relaties might take advantage. But if an incident can never be allowed to live in the past, you will indeed always have your guard up and that will be giving the relatives power over you. They'll be dominating your mental real estate. Why give them SO much power?

It’s not giving them power. It’s more like, I can’t trust them not to invite strangers to my home when I’m not there, which seems like a very basic and normal standard to have. If I can’t trust someone on that level, why would I bother trying to maintain a relationship with them? I’d either have some kind of very superficial relationship with them, to try to let the cousins maintain a relationship, or I’d wind up doing a slow fade. It would be far more stressful to me to have to keep my guard up and change codes or figure out ways to have them over and not share the code with them. I’d be wary of letting my kids visit them without me because they seem to have ridiculously bad judgment. It doesn’t seem like I’d be able to get much out of the relationship beyond stress, so it’s probably not one I’d nurture. If distancing myself from someone is giving them power, so be it.

The more I consider what they did and how I’d react, the more my mind is blown that they thought that was okay. They haven’t even shown any contrition, which indicates they don’t think they’re wrong, which makes me wary. It would be different if they recognized that they did something objectively wrong, and it’s not just that OP felt upset about them doing a normal thing that most people do. I’m just not sure how to move forward with a relationship with a couple (not even just one weirdo married to a normal person who tries to be a voice of reason) who doesn’t understand that they can’t invite randos to squat on my patio when they think I’m not home. I don’t want to find out the hard way what other social norms, safety guidelines, or laws they don’t comply with.

It sounds like OP's husband (brother of SIL) is the one who was MORE upset, and as it's his relationship with his sibling, I'd follow his lead on how much to interact with and trust them going forward. It does suck to realize that people you care about are willing to deceive you by omission and take advantage of your generosity, but if your relationship going forward doesn't involve trusting them with your home when you're not there, then their ability to harm you will be limited. OP said her daughter is 17, so it's not like we're talking about SIL and BIL being around a toddler or whatnot. I understand why you are drawn to this story (I am too!) but you have to adjust your assessment for OP's particulars. I think the biggest factor here is that OP is more laidback and forgiving than her husband about this and so therefore she doesn't need to worry about drawing the boundaries herself.

[Anonymous]

OP again - First off, my DD her cousin are not 17!! They’re in middle school! Honestly I’d say my DH usually the more laid back guy over me but this just hit him. Our weekend house is truly our refuge and part of why we chose to get so close to where we guessed we’d always live is being able to use often. Truly our home away from home.
We did see SIL & family yesterday but it just wasn’t time to bring up any further. We (DH & I) aren’t really to go as nuclear as some here are as family harmony most important. I understand some may wonder how it could be after this breech but we’re both comfortable with having addressed it, changed key codes, not offering them use of. Hopefully LDW will go well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SIL and BIL clearly started thinking of OP’s vaca home as an extended family vaca home. This situation gives OP an Opportunity to reset everyone’s thinking. No more open ended offering, no more filling them in about the OP’s plans for using the house, no more mentioning when the house is vacant, changed codes, and most importantly use your words and say “no, that doesn’t work for us” when they inevitably ask. Boundaries. Set them. And please put up cameras. They are cheap and super effective.

I think the word you're looking for is "vacay." A "vaca home" is a home for cows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again - First off, my DD her cousin are not 17!! They’re in middle school! Honestly I’d say my DH usually the more laid back guy over me but this just hit him. Our weekend house is truly our refuge and part of why we chose to get so close to where we guessed we’d always live is being able to use often. Truly our home away from home.
We did see SIL & family yesterday but it just wasn’t time to bring up any further. We (DH & I) aren’t really to go as nuclear as some here are as family harmony most important. I understand some may wonder how it could be after this breech but we’re both comfortable with having addressed it, changed key codes, not offering them use of. Hopefully LDW will go well.

You are wise not to go nuclear. Have you put in cams around the house? A good idea for security and boundary-crossing relatives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again - First off, my DD her cousin are not 17!! They’re in middle school! Honestly I’d say my DH usually the more laid back guy over me but this just hit him. Our weekend house is truly our refuge and part of why we chose to get so close to where we guessed we’d always live is being able to use often. Truly our home away from home.
We did see SIL & family yesterday but it just wasn’t time to bring up any further. We (DH & I) aren’t really to go as nuclear as some here are as family harmony most important. I understand some may wonder how it could be after this breech but we’re both comfortable with having addressed it, changed key codes, not offering them use of. Hopefully LDW will go well.

You are wise not to go nuclear. Have you put in cams around the house? A good idea for security and boundary-crossing relatives.

*literally around the periphery of the house including the pool area

[Anonymous]

OP, I can't stop from coming back to read this. I have more than a mild fascination with people who display astounding bad judgment. The BiL here may take the cake for 2022.

Really admire your not wanting to blow it all up, thinking of your DCs, etc. Also seems like a "trust and verify" situation given that the bad judgment here is truly truly truly next level - not necessarily akin to someone cheating on you but pretty darn close.

Sounds like you are trying to take your cues from DH while gently reminding him of the bigger pic. Hope your SiL understands how much are you doing here to salvage the situation. That family is so lucky to have you as an in-law.

[Anonymous]

Wow. I’d change all the locks, install cameras, and never invite them to my homes again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again - First off, my DD her cousin are not 17!! They’re in middle school! Honestly I’d say my DH usually the more laid back guy over me but this just hit him. Our weekend house is truly our refuge and part of why we chose to get so close to where we guessed we’d always live is being able to use often. Truly our home away from home.
We did see SIL & family yesterday but it just wasn’t time to bring up any further. We (DH & I) aren’t really to go as nuclear as some here are as family harmony most important. I understand some may wonder how it could be after this breech but we’re both comfortable with having addressed it, changed key codes, not offering them use of. Hopefully LDW will go well.

I agree OP. Family is not something you throw away over one mistake. Your kid will thank you for this.